Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[BeerFst]

When is everyone dry hopping? High krausen or post ferm? I currently have a Belgian IPA going and plan to expand my old neipa recipe into an OH clone. Love OH and need more

Post

 

[Jesse Runowski]

When is everyone dry hopping? High krausen or post ferm? I currently have a Belgian IPA going and plan to expand my old neipa recipe into an OH clone. Love OH and need more

Post - I like to soft crash to 45~ for a few days after fermentation to drop the yeast. I then raise the temp to around 58 and put in my first dry hop charge.

This has been working great for me,"hop burn" has been non-existent since I've started this process.

I do really want to try dry hopping during high krausen again but the method above has been working so well I'm honestly scared haha.

 

[couchsending]

As you can see from the brew log that was posted sometime this winter they don’t dry hop during active fermentation. They don’t soft crash to remove yeast but they wait until terminal and D-rest is complete, harvest yeast, and add dry hops.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

“We usually are dry hopping pretty much right at the tail end [of fermentation]. Usually we’ll still have some drop in gravity after we dry hop, part of that could be enzymatic reactions from the hops. I don’t like to harvest yeast off of tanks that have hops in them already.”

“Typical fermentation temps in the high 60s, low 70s when you’re dry hopping? Yeah.”

“We have a dry hop port at the top of the tank. For me, recirculating hops pulls out some astringencies I don’t like.”

Sam Richardson

 

[TravelingLight]

Brewed my second "heavy malted oats" hazyboi this past Wednesday. Made some changes from the first iteration. I dropped the flaked oats completely, dropped the raw wheat, upped the malted oats, and added in a smidge of light munich for color. Here's what I settled on...

49% Malted Oats
40% 2-Row
8% White Wheat
3% Light Munich (~8L)

Mashed at 154
30m Boil
Whirlpool at 180*, 30m (Idaho 7, Mosaic, Citra - with the majority being Idaho 7)
Fermenting with Bootleg's NEEPAH Blend

OG sample looked and smelled great. This is my first time using Idaho 7 and I'm pretty excited about it, especially after reading some stuff from Janish talking about how much he loves whirlpooling Idaho 7. I will report back next week when it's in the keg.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

Brewed my second "heavy malted oats" hazyboi this past Wednesday. Made some changes from the first iteration. I dropped the flaked oats completely, dropped the raw wheat, upped the malted oats, and added in a smidge of light munich for color. Here's what I settled on...

49% Malted Oats
40% 2-Row
8% White Wheat
3% Light Munich (~8L)

Mashed at 154
30m Boil
Whirlpool at 180*, 30m (Idaho 7, Mosaic, Citra - with the majority being Idaho 7)
Fermenting with Bootleg's NEEPAH Blend

OG sample looked and smelled great. This is my first time using Idaho 7 and I'm pretty excited about it, especially after reading some stuff from Janish talking about how much he loves whirlpooling Idaho 7. I will report back next week when it's in the keg.

Nice! Definitely interested in seeing how this turns out. I just pushed my malted oat % to 40 on my last brew. It turned out great and it makes me want to go closer to 50 like you.

 

[royger]

The water profile was built from 100% RO.

The final water profile was approximately:
Ca: 100ppm
Mg: 15ppm
Na: 30ppm + a small amount from the kmeta
So4: 275ppm (approx. 250ppm from gypsum & 25ppm from kmeta) Approximately 50ppm of the Ca and 120ppm of the So4 was a boil addition of Gypsum.
Cl: 75

I'm quite new to water adjustments and even more to this beer style, so sorry for the likely dull question, but why are you using such high levels of SO4?

It was my understanding that in order to achieve the creamy mouthfeel high levels of CL and low levels of SO4 where better.

 

[K_tile]

This is my latest creation...
43% Pilsner
26% GP
12% Oat Malt
12% Flaked Oats
2% Honey Malt

Amarillo, Citra, Mosaic, and Grungiest for WP and Dryhop with Omega DIPA yeast. Actually threw in Whirlfloc tablets out of habit.

 

[MrPowers]

I'm quite new to water adjustments and even more to this beer style, so sorry for the likely dull question, but why are you using such high levels of SO4?

It was my understanding that in order to achieve the creamy mouthfeel high levels of CL and low levels of SO4 where better.

Generally that is the thinking. However, I like the way the SO4 helps the hops pop and the beer to finish “drier”/crisp. With a proper step mash and PH levels, my beers have plenty of body and mouthfeel without the additional chloride.

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Generally that is the thinking. However, I like the way the SO4 helps the hops pop and the beer to finish “drier”/crisp. With a proper step mash and PH levels, my beers have plenty of body and mouthfeel without the additional chloride.

I have a Nelson/Galaxy IPA fermenting now that is ~400 ppm SO4, ~40 Cl. Trying the Alchemist's approach to water. Aiming for fruity + dry.

 

[MrPowers]

I have a Nelson/Galaxy IPA fermenting now that is ~400 ppm SO4, ~40 Cl. Trying the Alchemist's approach to water. Aiming for fruity + dry.

Let me know how that turns out. I’ve been hesitant to go that high, but I’ve been planning to give it a go at some point.

 

[spersichilli]

67% 2 row
18% malted oats
9% flaked oats
4% carapils
2% acid malt

1.071 to 1.018, 175:75 Cl:SO4. Super soft, pillowy mouthfeel. Crazy tropical fruit aroma/taste. Dry hopped once towards the tail end of fermentation and once after with 3oz/gal total. Normally would do one charge at the tail end but had to postpone kegging for a couple days so decided to add more. Split temp whirlpool, 20 at 190 and 30 at 160 with additions at each. 10IBU at 60 mins based on what OH said for All Together. Total WP was 3oz for 4 gals. Little bit of lactose and I'd say this would be damn similar to one of the OH daydreams.

 

[TravelingLight]

This is my latest creation...
43% Pilsner
26% GP
12% Oat Malt
12% Flaked Oats
2% Honey Malt

Amarillo, Citra, Mosaic, and Grungiest for WP and Dryhop with Omega DIPA yeast. Actually threw in Whirlfloc tablets out of habit.

What was the calculated SRM on that recipe? Looks a tad darker than I would prefer, but could certainly be the lighting.

Also, FWIW, I still whirlfloc these beers. I whirlfloc every single beer I brew.

 

[Frieds]

What was the calculated SRM on that recipe? Looks a tad darker than I would prefer, but could certainly be the lighting.

Also, FWIW, I still whirlfloc these beers. I whirlfloc every single beer I brew.

i whirlfloc every Beer I make as well. It doesn’t affect haze one bit.

 

[TravelingLight]

i whirlfloc every Beer I make as well. It doesn’t affect haze one bit.

Glad I am not alone. But I have some buddies, who are damn good brewers, that don't whirlfloc/moss their NEIPAs and it blows my mind. IMHO, these beers should not be hazy due to a bunch of crap (trub, break material, etc.) is in suspension. That's a bad NEIPA.

 

[BeerFst]

Glad I am not alone. But I have some buddies, who are damn good brewers, that don't whirlfloc/moss their NEIPAs and it blows my mind. IMHO, these beers should not be hazy due to a bunch of crap (trub, break material, etc.) is in suspension. That's a bad NEIPA.

Not using floc does not mean that stuff stays in suspension throughout the beer. Helps drop in the kettle for sure but I’ve had plenty of beers without floc clear just fine

 

[TravelingLight]

Not using floc does not mean that stuff stays in suspension throughout the beer. Helps drop in the kettle for sure but I’ve had plenty of beers without floc clear just fine

For sure, I totally agree. Enough time and cold conditioning will drop most any beer clear.

 

[Mark Solomon]

I just gave this a go. At last minute I decided to go no boil. I just remember a post that OH had on their website about it and decided why not.... I don't see many people talking about this....hopefully I didn't screw the batch up.

50 Pale
40 Malted Oats
5 Flaked Oats
3 Honey Malt
2 Acid Malt

WP:
4oz Citra
2oz Mosaic
2oz El Dorado

White Labs Burlington

FWIW - This brew was done on a Grainfather. It had no issues whatsoever with the 45% oats. Mind your crush....I used .025 for the oats (dry), .035 for the barley (conditioned). Excellent sparge.

 

[TravelingLight]

Brewed my second "heavy malted oats" hazyboi this past Wednesday. Made some changes from the first iteration. I dropped the flaked oats completely, dropped the raw wheat, upped the malted oats, and added in a smidge of light munich for color. Here's what I settled on...

49% Malted Oats
40% 2-Row
8% White Wheat
3% Light Munich (~8L)

Mashed at 154
30m Boil
Whirlpool at 180*, 30m (Idaho 7, Mosaic, Citra - with the majority being Idaho 7)
Fermenting with Bootleg's NEEPAH Blend

OG sample looked and smelled great. This is my first time using Idaho 7 and I'm pretty excited about it, especially after reading some stuff from Janish talking about how much he loves whirlpooling Idaho 7. I will report back next week when it's in the keg.

I'll report back with a picture later. I like this version better than my first. But it still needs a cock hair more color to it, for my preference. I'll probably add a touch of honey malt in addition to the light munich on the next version. Everything else is spot on though. It's just a little green since it just got in the keg.

 

[Dgallo]

I'll report back with a picture later. I like this version better than my first. But it still needs a cock hair more color to it, for my preference. I'll probably add a touch of honey malt in addition to the light munich on the next version. Everything else is spot on though. It's just a little green since it just got in the keg.

Light Munich is 7L and honey malt is 25L so that’s a huge difference in color contribution, honey malt has 3x’s the ability to change your color verses L. Munich. I get a really nice light orange color with 3% honey malt

 

[TravelingLight]

Light Munich is 7L and honey malt is 25L so that’s a huge difference in color contribution, honey malt has 3x’s the ability to change your color verses L. Munich. I get a really nice light orange color with 3% honey malt

In some of my earlier NEIPA iterations, I used about 5% light munich and 2% honey malt and nailed the color I wanted. I may drop the munich and just do the honey malt, not sure yet. But also one of the new bulk bags I got is a Rahr 2-row with a significantly higher SRM than the current 2-row and pils that I am using. So I'll just have to wait and see what SRM is spits out when I build the next recipe.

 

[Dgallo]

In some of my earlier NEIPA iterations, I used about 5% light munich and 2% honey malt and nailed the color I wanted. I may drop the munich and just do the honey malt, not sure yet. But also one of the new bulk bags I got is a Rahr 2-row with a significantly higher SRM than the current 2-row and pils that I am using. So I'll just have to wait and see what SRM is spits out when I build the next recipe.

Gotcha. So the with 5% Munich and 2% honey, your essentiallly getting the same color you would get from 3.5% honey alone. You’ll just have to make the decision if you think you’re actually picking up any Munich character in the beer. If you are and prefer it, than that’s perfect. If you don’t taste any Munich, you might as well just use the smaller percent of honey malt. Just depends really on what you like for your beer

 

[TravelingLight]

Gotcha. So the with 5% Munich and 2% honey, your essentiallly getting the same color you would get from 3.5% honey alone. You’ll just have to make the decision if you think you’re actually picking up any Munich character in the beer. If you are and prefer it, than that’s perfect. If you don’t taste any Munich, you might as well just use the smaller percent of honey malt. Just depends really on what you like for your beer

That's a really great point I had not considered. Honestly, I don't know that I get much, if any, munich character with everything else going on in the beer. I think I will just go with honey malt, unless I get the calculated SRM I want just from the higher L base malt. Thanks dude!

 

[royger]

Brewed my second "heavy malted oats" hazyboi this past Wednesday. Made some changes from the first iteration. I dropped the flaked oats completely, dropped the raw wheat, upped the malted oats, and added in a smidge of light munich for color. Here's what I settled on...

49% Malted Oats
40% 2-Row
8% White Wheat
3% Light Munich (~8L)

Mashed at 154
30m Boil
Whirlpool at 180*, 30m (Idaho 7, Mosaic, Citra - with the majority being Idaho 7)
Fermenting with Bootleg's NEEPAH Blend

OG sample looked and smelled great. This is my first time using Idaho 7 and I'm pretty excited about it, especially after reading some stuff from Janish talking about how much he loves whirlpooling Idaho 7. I will report back next week when it's in the keg.

I've been able to find some white wheat (raw unmalted, which seems to be quite complicated to find in my place), and was planning to do a grain will quite similar to yours. Never having used it, might I ask what's the purpose of the raw wheat? And do you cook it previously in order to convert the scratch?

I was planning to add it to the mash as-is, because I think part of the point of using it is to obtain the scratches instead of the sugars? (or else it could be replaced with flaked wheat?)

Thanks.

 

[Dgallo]

I've been able to find some white wheat (raw unmalted, which seems to be quite complicated to find in my place), and was planning to do a grain will quite similar to yours. Never having used it, might I ask what's the purpose of the raw wheat? And do you cook it previously in order to convert the scratch?

I was planning to add it to the mash as-is, because I think part of the point of using it is to obtain the scratches instead of the sugars? (or else it could be replaced with flaked wheat?)

Thanks.

It’s not “raw” in the sense that it’s not cooked, it’s raw in the fact that it has not been malted. Flaked wheat starts as raw wheat and is then placed through hot rollers. Unmalted wheat or raw wheat has no diastatic power and no enzymes to convert starches to sugars.

As long as you are using raw wheat in the mash in combination with base Malts. The enzymes from the base Malts will covert the starches in the raw wheat, so there is nothing to worry about.

People use raw wheat because since it was not malted, it has larger protein chains that can benefit head retention and mouthfeel.

 

[BrewMan13]

It’s not “raw” in the sense that it’s not cooked, it’s raw in the fact that it has not been malted. Flaked wheat starts as raw wheat and is then placed through hot rollers. Unmalted wheat or raw wheat has no diastatic power and no enzymes to convert starches to sugars.

As long as you are using raw wheat in the mash in combination with base Malts. The enzymes from the base Malts will covert the starches in the raw wheat, so there is nothing to worry about.

People use raw wheat because since it was not malted, it has larger protein chains that can benefit head retention and mouthfeel.

I've never done it before, but my understanding is that when using raw grains, is that you need to perform a cereal mash, not a standard infusion. Came across it when researching lambic brewing techniques, which use a good portion of raw wheat.

 

[Dgallo]

I've never done it before, but my understanding is that when using raw grains, is that you need to perform a cereal mash, not a standard infusion. Came across it when researching lambic brewing techniques, which use a good portion of raw wheat.

I’ve always been under the impression that as long as you get a good crush and you keep the % of raw wheat low, you can use a infusion mash

 

[BrewMan13]

I’ve always been under the impression that as long as you get a good crush and you keep the % of raw wheat low, you can use a infusion mash

Very possible...lambic is in the 40% raw wheat range I think, but you're right, it should be fine if it's lower. I certainly wouldn't go through all the trouble of a cereal mash if it was just a pound or 2.

 

[sfrisby]

What’s a typical grain to glass time for this beer? Assuming 1 dry hop addition and 1 day carbing with a stone?

 

[Dgallo]

What’s a typical grain to glass time for this beer? Assuming 1 dry hop addition and 1 day carbing with a stone?

To just be able to drink it or to actually enjoy it in its prime?

With a kviek yeast and rushing, 5/6 days. I’ve gone grain to glass in that amount of time but It is typically very green at that point. Especially if you use malted oats at a high percentage. I’ve found I get hop burn often with malted oats.


To actually enjoy it. 10-14 days in primary and then another 7-14 days on gas and stored cold. This seems to be the sweet spot for about 90% of the NEIPA or Oat Cream IPA.