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Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

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brewpharm Hill

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Hello!

I have been trying to replicate Other Half's Daydream beers at home and have had some success... however the beers are coming out somewhat thin and slick feeling (despite a FG of ~1.018, likely slick from the massive amount oats).

Has anyone attempted these? I'm almost 100% positive they ferment these with some strain of vermont yeast (conan related), based on tasting them and based on their social media posts. I've been using a little less than a pound of lactose in these in fear of making them too thick and chewy although they likely need more. Also, I have found that using 20% flaked oats certainly makes the beer very slick - a somewhat creamy feeling the beginning of a sip that quickly thins out and fades in the mouth. They have confirmed with me that they use a mix of oat and wheat in their beers and obviously they use a lot of oats with some lactose is the Daydreams. My most recent grist and mash schedule is below.

5 gallon batch (poland spring with 3gm gypsum, 3gm CaCl)

OG 1.060 (after lactose)
FG 1.018

Pilsner (59%) (definitely will change to 2-row next time around)
Flaked oats (20%)
Wheat malt (10%) (will change to white wheat next time)
Carapils (6%)
Corn Sugar (4%)
Rice hulls (2%)

Mash 154 for 60minutes
Mash out 169 for 10 minutes

This most recent batch i fermented with london III pitched at 70 and held for 12 hours then dropped to 64 for 4 days and let it rise to 70-72 before cold crashing.

This batch here is better than my last which had zero wheat and zero carapils. The previous batch was mashed lower and was a double IPA.

Can anyone help me out or have tried this? Or have you attempted it?

Thanks!
 

ajford19

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would love to see others chime in.
ive visited a few times and seen a bunch of what looked like 120 srm candy syrup buckets in there. you can find at your lhbs. maybe mash slightly higher
 
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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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Yeah it's funny... there isn't a ton of people out there trying to replicate this (take with a grain of salt since this is via google searches). I'm thinking that candy syrup is for their stouts (also great beers) however, I could be very wrong!

So I'll be brewing another attempt on Friday which is actually with/for a friend who live's near NYC. I may never taste it, but we'll see what eh reports. I'll definitely brew it on my own for my own research as well. I'll report back when it's done

________________________________________________________
5 gallon batch

OG: 1.070 (1.061 pre lactose)
FG: 1.017
Srm: 2.5-3 (some of OH's beers are very pale in their Daydream series, going to start with no specialty color addition and build up with subsequent batches)
ABV ~6%

Grains:
2-row 56%
Flaked oats 20%
White wheat 10%
carafoam 8%
rice hulls 1 lb

Mash pH 5.2
Mash 157* F for 60 minutes
Mashout 169* F for 15 minutes

Boil/Hops:
Add minerals additions at beginning of boil
0.5 oz Citra @ 60 min
1.5 oz citra @ 10 min
4 oz Citra whirlpool

Dry Hop:
3 oz citra on day 3
4 oz citra on day 7

Yeast/Fermentation:
1 L starter of Gigayeast Vermont Ale
- pitch @ 68*F and hold for 4 days then let rise to 72*F for 3 days. Drop to 60* on day 7 and dry hop then begin cold crash after 5 days and hold for 2. Closed transfer to keg and force carb at 38*F under 12 psi for ~2.60 vol of C02

Chemistry:

150 S04
200 Cl
50 Ca

using gypsum, CaCl, NaCl

Other:


1.25 lb Lactose at flameout for OG of 1.070
 

bozizle

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Glad you started this thread because I am on a mission to brew these as well.

I have not had the same problem with oats causing a slick feeling and think your bill looks pretty good. My issue has been how much lactose.

I see you bumping up to 1.25 lbs. was 1 lbs just not enough sweetness?

I am going to try this in an extract version with Mosaic this weekend. I don;t think the candi syrup is for these beers either.


Yeah it's funny... there isn't a ton of people out there trying to replicate this (take with a grain of salt since this is via google searches). I'm thinking that candy syrup is for their stouts (also great beers) however, I could be very wrong!

So I'll be brewing another attempt on Friday which is actually with/for a friend who live's near NYC. I may never taste it, but we'll see what eh reports. I'll definitely brew it on my own for my own research as well. I'll report back when it's done

________________________________________________________
5 gallon batch

OG: 1.070 (1.061 pre lactose)
FG: 1.017
Srm: 2.5-3 (some of OH's beers are very pale in their Daydream series, going to start with no specialty color addition and build up with subsequent batches)
ABV ~6%

Grains:
2-row 56%
Flaked oats 20%
White wheat 10%
carafoam 8%
rice hulls 1 lb

Mash pH 5.2
Mash 157* F for 60 minutes
Mashout 169* F for 15 minutes

Boil/Hops:
Add minerals additions at beginning of boil
0.5 oz Citra @ 60 min
1.5 oz citra @ 10 min
4 oz Citra whirlpool

Dry Hop:
3 oz citra on day 3
4 oz citra on day 7

Yeast/Fermentation:
1 L starter of Gigayeast Vermont Ale
- pitch @ 68*F and hold for 4 days then let rise to 72*F for 3 days. Drop to 60* on day 7 and dry hop then begin cold crash after 5 days and hold for 2. Closed transfer to keg and force carb at 38*F under 12 psi for ~2.60 vol of C02

Chemistry:

150 S04
200 Cl
50 Ca

using gypsum, CaCl, NaCl

Other:


1.25 lb Lactose at flameout for OG of 1.070
 

JamesonFan

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Yes, please keep us posted. I love the OH Daydream beers, and would love to make one myself.
 

degivens

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subscribed. went to their brewery a few months ago and really think they nail mouthfeel compared to the other heavy hitters.
 

skibb

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Have you tried degassing a sample of one of their beers to get an idea where their FG is at?

I've heard they are very tight lipped about their process/recipes, so I'm curious what all they have told you about their beers?

Also, maybe replace the flaked oats with malted oat? Several breweries like Tired Hands and Hudson Valley use it in nearly every one of their hoppy beers. Adds a slightly different texture and flavor than flaked.
 

ProblemChild

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I have found that Wheat, Carapils and WY1318 does a great job with with a great mouthfeel. Obviously you have that.

The shear quantity of Lactose, Flaked Oat with a big dry hop would be my concern. Just seems it could be a bit much. Not sure, but that is my guess. It could overwhelm the batch.

some possibilities are:
Reduce qty of Lactose on the next batch to 1/2 lb and see what happens.
Reduce qty of flaked oats to 15% and see what happens.
Reduce dry hop to 5 oz. and see what happens.

That would be my starting point
 
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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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I have found that Wheat, Carapils and WY1318 does a great job with with a great mouthfeel. Obviously you have that.

The shear quantity of Lactose, Flaked Oat with a big dry hop would be my concern. Just seems it could be a bit much. Not sure, but that is my guess. It could overwhelm the batch.

some possibilities are:
Reduce qty of Lactose on the next batch to 1/2 lb and see what happens.
Reduce qty of flaked oats to 15% and see what happens.
Reduce dry hop to 5 oz. and see what happens.

That would be my starting point

I have tried the 20% oats and 1/2 lb of lactose in the past, definitely needed more lactose. I ended up using 1lb instead of 1.25lb of lactose. I do agree that the flaked oats could be a little much but I've had good results with it thus far. You could be right about the dry hop, I'm considering dropping the second dry hop a little.


Have you tried degassing a sample of one of their beers to get an idea where their FG is at?

I've heard they are very tight lipped about their process/recipes, so I'm curious what all they have told you about their beers?

Also, maybe replace the flaked oats with malted oat? Several breweries like Tired Hands and Hudson Valley use it in nearly every one of their hoppy beers. Adds a slightly different texture and flavor than flaked.
I thought about using malted oats! That will be used in an upcoming batch. They confirmed that they use oats, wheat, lactose, and english yeast strain (which was an obvious answer).

As of right now the most recent batch from above is bubbling away nicely. First dry hop will be done tonight.
 

beervoid

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Nice to see others are at it! I've had the pleasure to try some Other Half beers and they where definitely on the top of my list of best IPA's.
I use them as a benchmark for my own IPA's ever since.

I'll chip in with my thoughts.

First of all, i'm of the opinion it's probably impossible for us home brewers to achieve the same level of hop flavor since these breweries use centrifuges to filter it exactly as needed. Cryo is currently the only trick we can pull to counter this.

I've read somewhere Other Half dry hops with 13oz per 5 gallons. I've gone to 12oz per 5 gallon one time more then half of that was cryo but it still ended up with a grassy taste (which I expect is from the overdose of polyphenols) and was a bit muddled.
I've let it age for 3 weeks and not much changed.

I also have a hard time picking up on yeast flavors on heavily dry hopped beers, wondering if others are experiencing this as well?
And what kind of limit have you established? (with or without cryo)

Did you ever try backing down on dry hops and adding more to the whirlpool? That would be another way to get more hops into the beer and I've read some accounts of people having success with this.

2nd thing. I heard in a podcast with Monkish that hop oils also contribute to mouthfeel so again, taking into account it's hard to dry hop in such massive amounts for us we are probably also missing some mouthfeel from the sheer amount of hop oils.

3rd, I've read somewhere (I suspect beeradvocate or untapped) in the description of a beer, possibly Other Half, it had 45% flaked oats. I'm trying to find it but could only find this colab with Trillium which states 30% flaked oats.
https://untappd.com/b/other-half-brewing-co-triangle-test-w-t-45-citra-hop-pellets/2376403
Taking the above in consideration you might want to up your flaked oats additions. I myself am planning to try a 45% flaked oat beer at some point.

4th, one of my best NEIPA's in terms of mouthfeel was a noboil NEIPA I did. Perhaps there is something to boiling a long time and breaking down those precious proteins we want to keep for mouthfeel?

Coming back to point 1. I've tried dry hopping a beer with 10oz of Galaxy and man was that beer HARSH. Even after 1 month of aging it was still tasting overly bitter and sharp. Makes me think that without a centrifuge it's pretty damn hard to make double dry hopped Galaxy beer like Space Diamonds.

A note on the malted oats. The breweries probably use them since it's easier to lauter with them then flaked ones which makes me suspect they are indeed using 30% + oats in their beers cause going lower % wise doesn't really give problems in the mash from my experience.
They also don't keep well, make sure to use them fast.


Subscribed.
 
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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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Update on the clone attempt...

Color is getting there and the flavor isn't too far off, but its still carbing and conditioning. The flavor will mellow and smooth over the next couple days. Good mouthfeel. More to come and a picture in a glass for comparison.

I made some last minute changes to the finale recipe. Here is what went down on brew day:

5 gal batch
OG: 1.066
FG: 1.020
ABV ~6%


FERMENTABLES


56% 7.3 2-Row - US

20% 2.6 Flaked Oats - US

10% 1.25 White Wheat - US

8% 1 Rice/ Oat Hulls

8% 1 Carafoam (Weyermann)


HOPS


0.5 Citra Pellet First Wort 0 min

1.5 Citra Pellet Boil 10 min

4 Citra Pellet Hop Stand 30 min (@ 165* )

3 Citra Pellet Dry Hop 7 days (added day 3/ high krausen)

3 Citra Pellet Dry Hop 5 days (added day 7 post fermentation)

YEAST

1 Gigayeast packets 1L Vermont yeast starter 80

EXTRAS

1 lb lactose 0 min FlameOut





Mash 157 60
Mash pH ~5.2-5.5 (still working on my pH mash adjustments)
Mash Out 169 15



Fermentation 1 68* 10

NOTES

Whirlpool at 165*. Pitch and ferment at 68. First dry hop at Day 3/4 (depending on krausen). Let rise to temp to 72* F (around day 5) and hold for 2 days. Cool to 60* F and add Second dry hop post fermentation (~day 7) Cold crash 5 days after second dry hop and hold cold crash for 2 days.
 

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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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The final product! Tastes so close to the real thing but I didn't have a DDH Citra daydream on hand for true comparison. The OH flavor and mouthfeel is close though! Our LHBS sold us a nearly empty C02 tank so we ran out of c02 and had to salvage what we could after it being in the keg for about two weeks, there may have been some 02 ingress in the process of trouble shooting the keg issues. Overall very happy with the results! I think I'll mash a little cooler next time. A very good beer! Almost there...definitely the closest attempt to date. I encourage others to give this recipe a shot and taste it for yourself!

Make sure to cold crash for 2 days...the vermont yeast does NOT flocc well... My growler had a good deal of yeast sediment (pretty sure it was also the first running from the keg which would explain this as well. I'd be curious to see what some gelatin would do in this area.
ddhCITRA.jpg
DDHcITRA1.jpg
 

beervoid

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The final product! Tastes so close to the real thing but I didn't have a DDH Citra daydream on hand for true comparison. The OH flavor and mouthfeel is close though! Our LHBS sold us a nearly empty C02 tank so we ran out of c02 and had to salvage what we could after it being in the keg for about two weeks, there may have been some 02 ingress in the process of trouble shooting the keg issues. Overall very happy with the results! I think I'll mash a little cooler next time. A very good beer! Almost there...definitely the closest attempt to date. I encourage others to give this recipe a shot and taste it for yourself!

Make sure to cold crash for 2 days...the vermont yeast does NOT flocc well... My growler had a good deal of yeast sediment (pretty sure it was also the first running from the keg which would explain this as well. I'd be curious to see what some gelatin would do in this area.View attachment 592985 View attachment 592986
Looks nice, are you keeping track of PH at mash, post boil into the fermenter and post fermentation?

I've seen Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise and Optic in the Other Half promo video. Might want to try these out. I myself use Golden Promise it gives a nice sweetness to the beer.
 

JamesonFan

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The final product! Tastes so close to the real thing but I didn't have a DDH Citra daydream on hand for true comparison. The OH flavor and mouthfeel is close though! Our LHBS sold us a nearly empty C02 tank so we ran out of c02 and had to salvage what we could after it being in the keg for about two weeks, there may have been some 02 ingress in the process of trouble shooting the keg issues. Overall very happy with the results! I think I'll mash a little cooler next time. A very good beer! Almost there...definitely the closest attempt to date. I encourage others to give this recipe a shot and taste it for yourself!

Make sure to cold crash for 2 days...the vermont yeast does NOT flocc well... My growler had a good deal of yeast sediment (pretty sure it was also the first running from the keg which would explain this as well. I'd be curious to see what some gelatin would do in this area.View attachment 592985 View attachment 592986
Did you throw the dry hops in loose? Or did you bag them each time?
 

Rob2010SS

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The final product! Tastes so close to the real thing but I didn't have a DDH Citra daydream on hand for true comparison. The OH flavor and mouthfeel is close though! Our LHBS sold us a nearly empty C02 tank so we ran out of c02 and had to salvage what we could after it being in the keg for about two weeks, there may have been some 02 ingress in the process of trouble shooting the keg issues. Overall very happy with the results! I think I'll mash a little cooler next time. A very good beer! Almost there...definitely the closest attempt to date. I encourage others to give this recipe a shot and taste it for yourself!

Make sure to cold crash for 2 days...the vermont yeast does NOT flocc well... My growler had a good deal of yeast sediment (pretty sure it was also the first running from the keg which would explain this as well. I'd be curious to see what some gelatin would do in this area.View attachment 592985 View attachment 592986
God damn that looks nice! Nice work. Never had one of these other half beers but may have to try this recipe!
 
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Looks nice, are you keeping track of PH at mash, post boil into the fermenter and post fermentation?

I've seen Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise and Optic in the Other Half promo video. Might want to try these out. I myself use Golden Promise it gives a nice sweetness to the beer.
Nice!! Do you have a link to the video? I've only brewing with golden promise a couple times and definitely liked it. I plan on using it more in the future. Right now I've just been tracking my mash pH... I know that pH has an effect on hop utilization so it is important to know pre and post boil when it is going into the fermenter. I also don't have a final pH on this beer either since it isn't kegged at my own apartment. I plan on implementing more pH monitoring into my process for sure though.

Did you throw the dry hops in loose? Or did you bag them each time?
Always loose hops for these juicy hazy ipas. I've done a lot of research on these and more often than not you'll see people say that it is a must in most cases. You get better flavor and aroma in my opinion. When you dry hop early and during fermentation a lot of the grassy flavors get eaten up or blown off by the yeast. But dry hopping late just make sure you don't leave the hops too long...that's why we cold crashed 5 days after the second dry hop.
 

beervoid

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Nice!! Do you have a link to the video? I've only brewing with golden promise a couple times and definitely liked it. I plan on using it more in the future. Right now I've just been tracking my mash pH... I know that pH has an effect on hop utilization so it is important to know pre and post boil when it is going into the fermenter. I also don't have a final pH on this beer either since it isn't kegged at my own apartment. I plan on implementing more pH monitoring into my process for sure though.



Always loose hops for these juicy hazy ipas. I've done a lot of research on these and more often than not you'll see people say that it is a must in most cases. You get better flavor and aroma in my opinion. When you dry hop early and during fermentation a lot of the grassy flavors get eaten up or blown off by the yeast. But dry hopping late just make sure you don't leave the hops too long...that's why we cold crashed 5 days after the second dry hop.
It can be seen right at the 10 second mark of the video

Dry hopping raises the PH which in turn raises the perception of harshness in the beer, i'm planning to use some phosphoric in boil to get it in the lower range of 5.0 and also after the massive dry hop if to make sure I stay under 4.5 ph.
 

beervoid

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Another pointer towards Other Half going heavy on the oat additions. Near 50%

Taken from: Cloudwater / Other Half - Tremendous Ideas

"Brewed with our friends from Other Half Brewing from Brooklyn, New York. We used almost 50% oats in the grist for a massive body, co-fermented with American and Manchester yeasts, then dry hopped with Citra, Vic Secret and Huell Melon hops."
 

beervoid

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Yet another pointer to obsessively high oat %.
Who is going to test this out?
Im already fighting with 20% adjuncts in the mash.

"Double dry-hopped Dream in Green is an oat India Pale Ale brewed with over 50% oats, a little bit of lactose sugar and crushed with Citra, Motueka and Wai-iti hops with a second dry hopping."
 
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brewpharm Hill

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Yet another pointer to obsessively high oat %.
Who is going to test this out?
Im already fighting with 20% adjuncts in the mash.

"Double dry-hopped Dream in Green is an oat India Pale Ale brewed with over 50% oats, a little bit of lactose sugar and crushed with Citra, Motueka and Wai-iti hops with a second dry hopping."
Strong detective work! My Grainfather would not be happy with a 50% grainbill in the mash... The 1lb of rice hulls I used for a 20% flaked oats and 10% white wheat mash did the trick though. Maybe a beta glucan rest in the mash before doing the sacc rest would help from getting a stuck mash/sparge?
 

beervoid

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Strong detective work! My Grainfather would not be happy with a 50% grainbill in the mash... The 1lb of rice hulls I used for a 20% flaked oats and 10% white wheat mash did the trick though. Maybe a beta glucan rest in the mash before doing the sacc rest would help from getting a stuck mash/sparge?
I feel those kind of rest are counter productive to what we are trying to achieve. Smood mouthfeel.

I got a grainfather like system too. Its giving me hell with only 9% flaked wheat and 9% flaked oats. Just bought some rice hulls to test.
 

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I don’t think lactose is the answer to achieve the same mouthfeel and creaminess, while it has been a few months since Ive had the other half I truly feel like it’s a water treatment thing to get a silky feel with the oats.

The other half brewing changed my whole life and I have been trying with a brew every weekend for about 5 months to achieve the same feeling when I drink a beer.....having that said, the recipe above is as true as I can get to Sam Richardson’s simple grainbill of pale malt and oats on a home brew scale...granted I add honey malt but it’s so small of an amount I spose one could delete it and still get there. I just prefer the resonating sweetness the honey provides.
 
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I feel those kind of rest are counter productive to what we are trying to achieve. Smood mouthfeel.

I got a grainfather like system too. Its giving me hell with only 9% flaked wheat and 9% flaked oats. Just bought some rice hulls to test.
Yeah I was just thinking that since there is so much, a short BG rest would bring it down from hop jello to a creamy beer lol.

I don’t think lactose is the answer to achieve the same mouthfeel and creaminess, while it has been a few months since Ive had the other half I truly feel like it’s a water treatment thing to get a silky feel with the oats.

The other half brewing changed my whole life and I have been trying with a brew every weekend for about 5 months to achieve the same feeling when I drink a beer.....having that said, the recipe above is as true as I can get to Sam Richardson’s simple grainbill of pale malt and oats on a home brew scale...granted I add honey malt but it’s so small of an amount I spose one could delete it and still get there. I just prefer the resonating sweetness the honey provides.
I can't argue. The lactose in their daydream beers just ups the ante while their non daydream beers that don't contain lactose still have an excellent mouthfeel. In the beers without lactose its definitely a mix of process, grains, and good water chemistry (not that these dont play a role in the daydreams!). They all dance quite well with each other in the daydream beers that keeps you coming back for more without feeling like you're drinking an filling imperial milk stout.

What helped a lot was added my Ca2Cl an NaCl. Upping the sodium along with chloride goes a long way for mouthfeel.
 

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Thanks for started this thread @brewpharm Hill - I'm gonna have to try something like this soon! Having tried IPAs from Trillium, HF, Bissel, Parish, Treehouse (you get the idea) over the past year, Other Half seems to be the one that strikes the best balance of all of them consistently for my tastes. Would love to be able to achieve something on that level at home.

It looks like you've toyed with both Conan and WY1318 varieties - which one do you think gives a result closer to the Other Half beers you've had? I've always been pretty confident I tasted WY1318 based on the mouthfeel I get, but it seems you tend to favor Conan varieties in your more recent batches. It could also be that the mouthfeel I was attributing to WY1318 is coming from the insane level of oats rather than the yeast though (WY1318 generally tastes full but somehow still light and airy to me, where as conan has been sweeter but a little thinner the times I've used it).

Also, what have you been using for a water profile?
 
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Thanks for started this thread @brewpharm Hill - I'm gonna have to try something like this soon! Having tried IPAs from Trillium, HF, Bissel, Parish, Treehouse (you get the idea) over the past year, Other Half seems to be the one that strikes the best balance of all of them consistently for my tastes. Would love to be able to achieve something on that level at home.

It looks like you've toyed with both Conan and WY1318 varieties - which one do you think gives a result closer to the Other Half beers you've had? I've always been pretty confident I tasted WY1318 based on the mouthfeel I get, but it seems you tend to favor Conan varieties in your more recent batches. It could also be that the mouthfeel I was attributing to WY1318 is coming from the insane level of oats rather than the yeast though (WY1318 generally tastes full but somehow still light and airy to me, where as conan has been sweeter but a little thinner the times I've used it).

Also, what have you been using for a water profile?
100% conan. I used the Gigayeast Vermont strain and it was the closest yeast character I've had for Other Half's Daydream beers. Give this recipe a try! I'd suggest pulling back the carafoam addition or getting rid of it all together and mash much cooler around 150-153. The above recipe came out great but a little too sweet for my taste and sweeter and a daydream from other half. You could tone back the lactose a touch too to be on the safe side.
 

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What helped a lot was added my Ca2Cl an NaCl. Upping the sodium along with chloride goes a long way for mouthfeel.
I think that's a major key with water. The typical NEIPA water profile has 100+ Calcium. That makes for extremely HARD water. I would think you would want a SOFT or softer water profile with NEIPA's to get a softer mouthfeel. I reworked my typical NEIPA water profile in Bru'n Water Supporter Version to the point where I have the following ppm's:
  • 40ppm Calcium
  • 13ppm Magnesium
  • 49ppm Sodium
  • 51ppm Sulfate
  • 146ppm Chloride
Comparing that profile to my old one, I cut my water hardness by more than half and still have around the same Sulfate and Chloride numbers. I brewed a session NEIPA with a buddy last weekend using that water profile. I'll get to taste it in 2 weeks.
 

beervoid

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I think that's a major key with water. The typical NEIPA water profile has 100+ Calcium. That makes for extremely HARD water. I would think you would want a SOFT or softer water profile with NEIPA's to get a softer mouthfeel. I reworked my typical NEIPA water profile in Bru'n Water Supporter Version to the point where I have the following ppm's:
  • 40ppm Calcium
  • 13ppm Magnesium
  • 49ppm Sodium
  • 51ppm Sulfate
  • 146ppm Chloride
Comparing that profile to my old one, I cut my water hardness by more than half and still have around the same Sulfate and Chloride numbers. I brewed a session NEIPA with a buddy last weekend using that water profile. I'll get to taste it in 2 weeks.
Leaning towards softer water myself as well.
I advice people to look into mineral contributions (can be up to 300ppm Cl) of malts and there are some finished beer mineral analysis floating from pro neipa's.
 

BeerFst

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I think that's a major key with water. The typical NEIPA water profile has 100+ Calcium. That makes for extremely HARD water. I would think you would want a SOFT or softer water profile with NEIPA's to get a softer mouthfeel. I reworked my typical NEIPA water profile in Bru'n Water Supporter Version to the point where I have the following ppm's:
  • 40ppm Calcium
  • 13ppm Magnesium
  • 49ppm Sodium
  • 51ppm Sulfate
  • 146ppm Chloride
Comparing that profile to my old one, I cut my water hardness by more than half and still have around the same Sulfate and Chloride numbers. I brewed a session NEIPA with a buddy last weekend using that water profile. I'll get to taste it in 2 weeks.
Just about 2 weeks, anything to report?
 

LumberZach

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Just about 2 weeks, anything to report?
Sorry, I did try it, but my buddy ended up overcarbing the keg. It was also super green because it had only been kegged 6 days prior. So it was difficult to tell if the water made any improvement. I'll be brewing my own this Wednesday and will report back once it's done and carbed properly. IF the water makes an improvement it will probably only be noticed in a regular NEIPA with no lactose or any other flavoring. I'll be brewing a regular NEIPA with all Cashmere.
 

benco

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This is my first attempt at making this type of beer using the OPs recipe except for the water. I’m using my local water which is from a rural water company and works pretty good for me. I usually make IPAs. I have never made a Neipa beer either, but I love them. I just got all the ingredients in and plan on brewing next week on my biab system.
 

benco

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Brewing this right now and had a couple of questions if anyone can help. I’m using 22.2% alpha Cryo Hops, should I cut these amounts in half. Ibu is 38 before I cut in half. Also my beersmith is showing about 8% abv which seems off. Any thoughts? Thanks
 
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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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Brewing this right now and had a couple of questions if anyone can help. I’m using 22.2% alpha Cryo Hops, should I cut these amounts in half. Ibu is 38 before I cut in half. Also my beersmith is showing about 8% abv which seems off. Any thoughts? Thanks
In general, cryo hops should be used at 1/2 the rate as standard pellet hops.

Is beersmith accounting for lactose as being a fermentable? I haven't brewed a beer with lactose in it using Beersmith software yet. I used the Grainfather recipe builder and couldn't add the lactose to the actual fermentable bill because it was being calculated as a fermentable (lactose is not a fermentable sugar)
 

benco

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In general, cryo hops should be used at 1/2 the rate as standard pellet hops.

Is beersmith accounting for lactose as being a fermentable? I haven't brewed a beer with lactose in it using Beersmith software yet. I used the Grainfather recipe builder and couldn't add the lactose to the actual fermentable bill because it was being calculated as a fermentable (lactose is not a fermentable sugar)
Thank you! Appreciate your help.
 

cheesebach

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Beersmith doesn't consider lactose fermentable, at least in my experience. Things that would account for a different abv% when trying to match someone else's recipe are:

1) Difference efficiency numbers
2) Difference in post- boil volume
3) Difference in FG estimate due to yeast selection
4) Difference in FG estimate due to mash temp and variables

I would try to dial in the OG rather than FG, since FG is only a predicted value. That would mean adjusting the grain bill to account for differences in #1 and #2.
 

benco

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Beersmith doesn't consider lactose fermentable, at least in my experience. Things that would account for a different abv% when trying to match someone else's recipe are:

1) Difference efficiency numbers
2) Difference in post- boil volume
3) Difference in FG estimate due to yeast selection
4) Difference in FG estimate due to mash temp and variables

I would try to dial in the OG rather than FG, since FG is only a predicted value. That would mean adjusting the grain bill to account for differences in #1 and #2.
Thank you! That makes sense. She finished at 1.070 for 5.5 gal in fermenter. I hope it turns out good, a few more steps to go.
 

Rainy

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Another hint:"You also learn a hell of a lot from the triumphs too. A watershed moment in our brewhouse was when Other Half came to brew with us, and we found kindred spirits in how they messed around with their water profiles."

Together with the comment section of this video: "So James says he starts with the extremely soft Cornish water and suggests any brewer do the same and work your way up as you do batches. He also splits the chloride over mash and kettle additions."

And Verdant are known to use more chloride than sulfate, so my guess would be that they add extra CaCl in the kettle.

Also don't underestimate the effect of carbonation on mouthfeel.
 

Genuine

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I've been trying to really take the time to evaluate local NEIPA's to me (Treehouse for the most part) and noting the carbonation. I still think this is a style that mimics alot of oatmeal stouts as far as mouthfeel. My current NEIPA that I have fermenting, I'm planning on going with 1.8-1.9 Vol of CO2 and see how that might change mouthfeel perception.
 

TBryerton

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I've been trying to really take the time to evaluate local NEIPA's to me (Treehouse for the most part) and noting the carbonation. I still think this is a style that mimics alot of oatmeal stouts as far as mouthfeel. My current NEIPA that I have fermenting, I'm planning on going with 1.8-1.9 Vol of CO2 and see how that might change mouthfeel perception.
I think pretty much every Tree House ipa that I’ve had was well carbonated. I’m still under the impression that mouthfeel is a result of grain bill, water chemistry, and hop oils.
 
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