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Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

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HopsAreGood

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Sorry yes grams per litre . gpl or more correctly g/L. :)
14oz x 28g= 392 grams
3.785 liters x 5 gallons = 18.925 liters

392/18.925 = 20.71 g/l

Also, in terms of PH I have seen it stated that a general rule of thumb is that for each 1lb/bbl of dry hop an increase in .14 ph units can be expected. I have not tested or confirmed this but have seen it from a pretty reliable source. So you can aim for a pre dry hop PH utilizing this expected increase...and see how it works out.

And if my math is correct an easy way to convert lb/bbl to a five gallon batch is this:

.3875 x how ever many ounces

So...

.3875 x 8 oz.(just as an example) = 3.1 lb/bbl

So 3.1 x .14 = .434 (the expected ph increase)
 
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skibb

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pH is nonlinear. That may be a decent placeholder to estimate what kind of buffer you will get but I would not be disappointed if it is off a bit.
 

HopsAreGood

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pH is nonlinear. That may be a decent placeholder to estimate what kind of buffer you will get but I would not be disappointed if it is off a bit.
Excellent point. I definitely do not claim to be an expert in this area, but I have seen this given as a general rule of thumb.
 

Nick Poggetti

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I just stumbled upon this thread having not seen it before (don't ask me how, guess I just missed it!) but I have found and modified a similar style grain bill that you all have been throwing around.

This first one:

DN.jpeg



8.5% abv
44% 2 row
44% malted oats
5.3% white wheat
4% golden naked oats
2.7% C20

Mash 152, 30 min boil

Yeast Bay Sigmund Voss Kveik, massive underpitch just 1 tblspn. I've been working my way through that single starter since so little can go a long way.

FWH: 2ml of Yakima's hop shot extract
Then Neslon, El Dorado, and HBC 342 split across whirlpool and 2x dry hop. Ratio of 2:1:1 with Nelson the 2.

This was my best hazy ipa i've ever made. Can't wait to brew this again with just Nelson when the 2020 crop comes out for sale.


Next one was a scaled down version to 7%:

TP.jpeg



Same as above, but for some reason my SRM came out just a tad more yellow/less orange, scaled to 7%

Hops:
FWH: Yakima hop shot 2ml
Sabro and Galaxy at 2.5:1 ratio across whirlpool and 2x dry hop.

Trust me I know that's a lot of Sabro... The beer tastes like a coconut creamsicle. It's very unique. Not what you'd expect when you're putting it to your lips, but it is still delicious. That said, I won't be using this much Sabro again.


Both beers water profile:
Mash ph 5.25
Calcium: 75
mg: ??
Sodium: 30
Sulfate: 75
Chloride: 200
 

Dgallo

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I just stumbled upon this thread having not seen it before (don't ask me how, guess I just missed it!) but I have found and modified a similar style grain bill that you all have been throwing around.

This first one:

View attachment 691772


8.5% abv
44% 2 row
44% malted oats
5.3% white wheat
4% golden naked oats
2.7% C20

Mash 152, 30 min boil

Yeast Bay Sigmund Voss Kveik, massive underpitch just 1 tblspn. I've been working my way through that single starter since so little can go a long way.

FWH: 2ml of Yakima's hop shot extract
Then Neslon, El Dorado, and HBC 342 split across whirlpool and 2x dry hop. Ratio of 2:1:1 with Nelson the 2.

This was my best hazy ipa i've ever made. Can't wait to brew this again with just Nelson when the 2020 crop comes out for sale.


Next one was a scaled down version to 7%:

View attachment 691777


Same as above, but for some reason my SRM came out just a tad more yellow/less orange, scaled to 7%

Hops:
FWH: Yakima hop shot 2ml
Sabro and Galaxy at 2.5:1 ratio across whirlpool and 2x dry hop.

Trust me I know that's a lot of Sabro... The beer tastes like a coconut creamsicle. It's very unique. Not what you'd expect when you're putting it to your lips, but it is still delicious. That said, I won't be using this much Sabro again.


Both beers water profile:
Mash ph 5.25
Calcium: 75
mg: ??
Sodium: 30
Sulfate: 75
Chloride: 200
Looks good! Your color was lighter in the 7% because you scaled it down 1.5% abv. Even though the ratio of grains used was equivalent, less grains means less color impact and visa versa.
 

Nick Poggetti

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What was the amount of hops you used in these?
My ratios in the first post might be slightly off, i recited most of that from memory. Looking up the actual hop schedule:

12.75 oz in the first one, not including the hop shot.
2oz/2oz/1oz Nelson/El Dorado/HBC342 at whirlpool 170 F
2oz/1.5oz Nelson/HBC342 at dryhop 12-24hours post pitch
2oz/1.5oz Nelson/El Dorado at Dryhop 3-4 days after that and package around day 7-9.

10.5 oz in the second, also not including the hop shot.
2.5oz/1oz at whirlpool 170F, dryhop 12-24hours after pitching, dryhopping another 3-4 days after that and packaging around day 7-9.

Both beers took at least a week in the keg to mellow, around 10 days in keg they were perfect.
 

Nick Poggetti

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Looks good! Your color was lighter in the 7% because you scaled it down 1.5% abv. Even though the ratio of grains used was equivalent, less grains means less color impact and visa versa.
Yeah, I realized that after brewing it, never even really looked at the SRM calc in the software, just kinda went with it without thinking too much about it.
 

Dgallo

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Yeah, I realized that after brewing it, never even really looked at the SRM calc in the software, just kinda went with it without thinking too much about it.
They both look great, I wouldn’t sweat it what so ever.
 
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brewpharm Hill

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I just stumbled upon this thread having not seen it before (don't ask me how, guess I just missed it!) but I have found and modified a similar style grain bill that you all have been throwing around.

This first one:

View attachment 691772


8.5% abv
44% 2 row
44% malted oats
5.3% white wheat
4% golden naked oats
2.7% C20

Mash 152, 30 min boil

Yeast Bay Sigmund Voss Kveik, massive underpitch just 1 tblspn. I've been working my way through that single starter since so little can go a long way.

FWH: 2ml of Yakima's hop shot extract
Then Neslon, El Dorado, and HBC 342 split across whirlpool and 2x dry hop. Ratio of 2:1:1 with Nelson the 2.

This was my best hazy ipa i've ever made. Can't wait to brew this again with just Nelson when the 2020 crop comes out for sale.


Next one was a scaled down version to 7%:

View attachment 691777


Same as above, but for some reason my SRM came out just a tad more yellow/less orange, scaled to 7%

Hops:
FWH: Yakima hop shot 2ml
Sabro and Galaxy at 2.5:1 ratio across whirlpool and 2x dry hop.

Trust me I know that's a lot of Sabro... The beer tastes like a coconut creamsicle. It's very unique. Not what you'd expect when you're putting it to your lips, but it is still delicious. That said, I won't be using this much Sabro again.


Both beers water profile:
Mash ph 5.25
Calcium: 75
mg: ??
Sodium: 30
Sulfate: 75
Chloride: 200
Those are some mighty fine looking beers. How was the foam cling and stability on those?
 

SteveLupoMax

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What do you guys think of this.... Feedback needed! :)

OG1.085
FG1.022
LONDON III

Fawcett Malted oats 45%
2-Row 28%
Fawcett Golden Promise 17%
Weyermaan Carafoam 4.5%
Lactose 4.5%

Ca:59
Mg: 10
Na:80
Cl:205
SO4:32.

0.25oz Citra 30min
1.25oz Citra Cryo WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
6oz/3oz Citra/Nelson at Dryhop
 

Fergal

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What do you guys think of this.... Feedback needed! :)

OG1.085
FG1.022
LONDON III

Fawcett Malted oats 45%
2-Row 28%
Fawcett Golden Promise 17%
Weyermaan Carafoam 4.5%
Lactose 4.5%

Ca:59
Mg: 10
Na:80
Cl:205
SO4:32.

0.25oz Citra 30min
1.25oz Citra Cryo WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
6oz/3oz Citra/Nelson at Dryhop
I would keep your cryo for the dry hop. Be mindful of your calculated efficiencies with all the malted oats too.
 

SteveLupoMax

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I would keep your cryo for the dry hop. Be mindful of your calculated efficiencies with all the malted oats too.
Oh really? Thanks. Are you implying that they are lower than whats in BeerSmith?
I thought MORE cryo in the DH meant less haze?
 

Noob_Brewer

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What do you guys think of this.... Feedback needed! :)

OG1.085
FG1.022
LONDON III

Fawcett Malted oats 45%
2-Row 28%
Fawcett Golden Promise 17%
Weyermaan Carafoam 4.5%
Lactose 4.5%

Ca:59
Mg: 10
Na:80
Cl:205
SO4:32.

0.25oz Citra 30min
1.25oz Citra Cryo WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
6oz/3oz Citra/Nelson at Dryhop
Looks interesting to me. Never went that low on SO4 before relative to CL, but if you've used that water profile and like it, go for it. I do wonder on the hop bill though that with that much citra, if the nelson just won't get drowned out. If im not mistaken, Citra already has quite a lot higher total oil content than Nelson. Perhaps flip that ratio of 1:2 Citra:Nelson. Of course, its all about what you are trying to get from this yourself. Cheers!
 

SteveLupoMax

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Looks interesting to me. Never went that low on SO4 before relative to CL, but if you've used that water profile and like it, go for it. I do wonder on the hop bill though that with that much citra, if the nelson just won't get drowned out. If im not mistaken, Citra already has quite a lot higher total oil content than Nelson. Perhaps flip that ratio of 1:2 Citra:Nelson. Of course, its all about what you are trying to get from this yourself. Cheers!
Thanks! I've never gone that low before either... But because I can... why not!
Yea I was thinking that the Citra May do that. Maybe evening them out?
 

Fergal

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Oh really? Thanks. Are you implying that they are lower than whats in BeerSmith?
I thought MORE cryo in the DH meant less haze?
Yeah i've seen a few people be caught out, not sure on specific malt or program but for reference I use Brewfather and my Gladfield Malted Oats have a potential of 1.027. In terms of cryo I just think you will get better bang for your buck in the fermenter. Less hop material, better flavour & aroma per gram etc.
 

SteveLupoMax

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What do you guys think of this.... Feedback needed! :)

OG1.085
FG1.022
LONDON III

Fawcett Malted oats 45%
2-Row 28%
Fawcett Golden Promise 17%
Weyermaan Carafoam 4.5%
Lactose 4.5%

Ca:59
Mg: 10
Na:80
Cl:205
SO4:32.

0.25oz Citra 30min
1.25oz Citra Cryo WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
6oz/3oz Citra/Nelson at Dryhop
Hi,
Me again.
Going back to the recipe above.. What If i switch the hops to Mosaic and Motueka. Motueka is a hop I don't really know how to use but I've a bunch of it at the mo. I've heard people say using it more than 30% of your hop bill and it can be too much.
What are your experiences?

0.25oz Mosaic 30min
2.5oz Mosaic WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
4.5oz/4.5oz Mosaic/Motueka at Dryhop

Yeah i've seen a few people be caught out, not sure on specific malt or program but for reference I use Brewfather and my Gladfield Malted Oats have a potential of 1.027. In terms of cryo I just think you will get better bang for your buck in the fermenter. Less hop material, better flavour & aroma per gram etc.
Oh thats really good info! Thanks for that!
 

ecam84

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I just stumbled upon this thread having not seen it before (don't ask me how, guess I just missed it!) but I have found and modified a similar style grain bill that you all have been throwing around.

This first one:

View attachment 691772


8.5% abv
44% 2 row
44% malted oats
5.3% white wheat
4% golden naked oats
2.7% C20

Mash 152, 30 min boil

Yeast Bay Sigmund Voss Kveik, massive underpitch just 1 tblspn. I've been working my way through that single starter since so little can go a long way.

FWH: 2ml of Yakima's hop shot extract
Then Neslon, El Dorado, and HBC 342 split across whirlpool and 2x dry hop. Ratio of 2:1:1 with Nelson the 2.

This was my best hazy ipa i've ever made. Can't wait to brew this again with just Nelson when the 2020 crop comes out for sale.


Next one was a scaled down version to 7%:

View attachment 691777


Same as above, but for some reason my SRM came out just a tad more yellow/less orange, scaled to 7%

Hops:
FWH: Yakima hop shot 2ml
Sabro and Galaxy at 2.5:1 ratio across whirlpool and 2x dry hop.

Trust me I know that's a lot of Sabro... The beer tastes like a coconut creamsicle. It's very unique. Not what you'd expect when you're putting it to your lips, but it is still delicious. That said, I won't be using this much Sabro again.


Both beers water profile:
Mash ph 5.25
Calcium: 75
mg: ??
Sodium: 30
Sulfate: 75
Chloride: 200
Hey - What made you go for a 30 minute boil vs 60 ? Was there a noticeable difference ?
 

LumberZach

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Hey - What made you go for a 30 minute boil vs 60 ? Was there a noticeable difference ?
I only do 30 minute boils with my NEIPA's and haven't noticed anything different from a 60 minute boil.
 

LumberZach

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20200812_173413.jpg


Here's a sample I took while kegging today.
  • 50% Brewer's 2-Row
  • 25% Malted Oats
  • 25% White Wheat Malt
No lactose. OG of 1.071 and a FG of 1.020. 6.7% abv

Hopped with all Citra. Big orange and citrus on the nose. Orange on the flavor along with some green. Mouthfeel was nice and full. Best mouthfeel I've gotten to date. Nice and thick. Can't wait to see what this is like carbed up with a week of conditioning.
 

Dgallo

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Going to brew my newest edition of a Double Oat Cream ipa this weekend.

Grains;
49% - Pilsner
38% - Malted oats
10% - White Wheat
3% - Honey malt

Mash: 152*f

Hops:
Citra
Citra LUPOMAX
Strata
Idaho 7

Boil: Citra
WH: Idaho7 & Citra (3:1)
DH: Strata & Citra LUPOMAX (1:2)

Yeast: Imperial juice

I will update with the finished product
So due to some unforeseen issues and more important things that arose, I’m finally going to be brewing this tomorrow. Will keep you posted. I’m actually going to go for an even lower mash temp of 150*f.

so I just did a run of 3 different mix fermentation beers with Brett that finished 1.001-1.002 with 35% wheat and they had such a soft yet fluffy body even though they finished low. This Coupled with some instagram post from Sam and degassing some trillium, TH, and OH leads me to believe they are mashing far lower than what we think and the lower fg helps keeps the beer light and the grainbill/process keeps the body full. Let’s see if I’m right lol
 
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brewpharm Hill

brewpharm Hill

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What do you guys think of this.... Feedback needed! :)

OG1.085
FG1.022
LONDON III

Fawcett Malted oats 45%
2-Row 28%
Fawcett Golden Promise 17%
Weyermaan Carafoam 4.5%
Lactose 4.5%

Ca:59
Mg: 10
Na:80
Cl:205
SO4:32.

0.25oz Citra 30min
1.25oz Citra Cryo WP 30mins 176F
0.75oz Columbus WP 30mins 176F
6oz/3oz Citra/Nelson at Dryhop

How'd this turnout with that high amount of malted oats?
 
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So due to some unforeseen issues and more important things that arose, I’m finally going to be brewing this tomorrow. Will keep you posted. I’m actually going to go for an even lower mash temp of 150*f.

so I just did a run of 3 different mix fermentation beers with Brett that finished 1.001-1.002 with 35% wheat and they had such a soft yet fluffy body even though they finished low. This Coupled with some instagram post from Sam and degassing some trillium, TH, and OH leads me to believe they are mashing far lower than what we think and the lower fg helps keeps the beer light and the grainbill/process keeps the body full. Let’s see if I’m right lol
If you don't mind sharing your efficiency I love to see what you get with 38% malted oats. I did a batch with 44% (fermenting now) and got 60%. That's after milling twice, once at .035 and again at .025. I was hoping for 65-70% so I was a little short on my target OG of 1.076.

Also curious to see how mashing at 150 changes the mouthfeel, if at all with that amount of oats. I've been wanted to try that myself.

Good luck on brew day and thanks for sharing!
 

Dgallo

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If you don't mind sharing your efficiency I love to see what you get with 38% malted oats. I did a batch with 44% (fermenting now) and got 60%. That's after milling twice, once at .035 and again at .025. I was hoping for 65-70% so I was a little short on my target OG of 1.076.

Also curious to see how mashing at 150 changes the mouthfeel, if at all with that amount of oats. I've been wanted to try that myself.

Good luck on brew day and thanks for sharing!
Thanks man. I set my efficiency for 68% when I’m higher in oat or wheat malts. With a more Typical grain bill I am about 75-78%. I’ll let you know tomorrow my exact numbers
 

beervoid

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So due to some unforeseen issues and more important things that arose, I’m finally going to be brewing this tomorrow. Will keep you posted. I’m actually going to go for an even lower mash temp of 150*f.

so I just did a run of 3 different mix fermentation beers with Brett that finished 1.001-1.002 with 35% wheat and they had such a soft yet fluffy body even though they finished low. This Coupled with some instagram post from Sam and degassing some trillium, TH, and OH leads me to believe they are mashing far lower than what we think and the lower fg helps keeps the beer light and the grainbill/process keeps the body full. Let’s see if I’m right lol
What FG are you aiming for? OH seems to be on the high side up to 1.021 and Trillium around 1.012 with Tree House somewhere in the middle 1.015
Could you share which post Sam you are referring to?

I mash low to help deal with hop creep, imho with the right yeast and some adjuncts / dextrin malts you can get to that higher fg.
 
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Dgallo

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What FG are you aiming for? OH seems to be on the high side up to 1.021 and Trillium around 1.012 with Tree House somewhere in the middle 1.015
Could you share which post Sam you are referring to?

I mash low to help deal with hop creep, imho with the right yeast and some adjuncts / dextrin malts you can get to that higher fg.
Non lactose other half beers finish much lower. Green city and Forever and Ever that I degassred just this weekend were 1.010 and 1.012. Also I have never degassed a treehouse and had it above 1.014. All were 1.012-1.014.

I’ll search for the screenshot but Sam responded to a tag on IG or Twitter and “mash low ...” and a quick list of tips. I believe I saw the screenshot originally in this thread (possibly it was the NE thread)
 

beervoid

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Non lactose other half beers finish much lower. Green city and Forever and Ever that I degassred just this weekend were 1.010 and 1.012. Also I have never degassed a treehouse and had it above 1.014. All were 1.012-1.014.

I’ll search for the screenshot but Sam responded to a tag on IG or Twitter and “mash low ...” and a quick list of tips. I believe I saw the screenshot originally in this thread (possibly it was the NE thread)
Ok interesting. I had wheat based neipa that ended on the dryish side 1.010 and it was amazingly soft and fluffy had up to 20% white wheat and some oats.
 

HopsAreGood

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Non lactose other half beers finish much lower. Green city and Forever and Ever that I degassred just this weekend were 1.010 and 1.012. Also I have never degassed a treehouse and had it above 1.014. All were 1.012-1.014.

I’ll search for the screenshot but Sam responded to a tag on IG or Twitter and “mash low ...” and a quick list of tips. I believe I saw the screenshot originally in this thread (possibly it was the NE thread)
C715FD2B-AEFA-40DB-A947-97F773BD0CD9.png

This? It’s from trillium not Sam but I posted it a while back.
 

MrPowers

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You definitely don’t need a high FG to get great mouthfeel and a malt backbone. Good brewing process and recipe formulation should be plenty to get you there!
 

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From Janish’s book regarding OH’s lower ABV beers.

“Other Half is lucky to brew with Brooklyn water, which offers a neutral, low mineral profile allowing them to easily add additional minerals based on the style. For example, most of their hazy, hoppy beers favor calcium chloride additions to help enhance body, especially when brewing lower ABV beers. They will often mash these lower ABV beers as high as 160 ° F (71 ° C) to boost the mouthfeel. The lower alcohol beers might also get a higher percentage of protein-rich grains to compensate for the lower alcohol content (again, for mouthfeel).”
 
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@Jesse Runowski

Preboil - 1.055 at exactly 8 gallons
Efficiency calculated to 69.8%
Nice, Spot on! Good to know you can get close to 70% with that grain bill. I may try your exact recipe to see where I land. I had flaked barley in mine on top of the 44% malted oats. I might need to increase my base malt % a bit. 60% efficiency was such a shock to me, I usually get 75-80% with a less oaty / adjunct grain bill.

Thanks for sharing!
 

cheesebach

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Nice, Spot on! Good to know you can get close to 70% with that grain bill. I may try your exact recipe to see where I land. I had flaked barley in mine on top of the 44% malted oats. I might need to increase my base malt % a bit. 60% efficiency was such a shock to me, I usually get 75-80% with a less oaty / adjunct grain bill.

Thanks for sharing!
I think the majority of the efficiency issues with malted oats come from the milling and/or using the wrong potential extract in the brewing software. I think Beersmith has something like 1.037 for the extract potential of malted oats, but if you check look up the specs for Fawcett malted oats, it falls somewhere in the range of 1.028-1.032. I saw Brewer's Friend had 1.028, so this is what I plugged into Beersmith. Also, I found that I had to crank down my monster mill to the tightest I could set the gap to get a decent crush on the oats. Doing those 2 things, I got a 73% no-sparge mash efficiency (BIAB) on a 1.084 OG DIPA I made this summer using 30% malted oats, which is right in line with other IPAs I've made in that OG range.
 
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I think the majority of the efficiency issues with malted oats come from the milling and/or using the wrong potential extract in the brewing software. I think Beersmith has something like 1.037 for the extract potential of malted oats, but if you check look up the specs for Fawcett malted oats, it falls somewhere in the range of 1.028-1.032. I saw Brewer's Friend had 1.028, so this is what I plugged into Beersmith. Also, I found that I had to crank down my monster mill to the tightest I could set the gap to get a decent crush on the oats. Doing those 2 things, I got a 73% no-sparge mash efficiency (BIAB) on a 1.084 OG DIPA I made this summer using 30% malted oats, which is right in line with other IPAs I've made in that OG range.
Good call! I do use beersmith for my recipes. For me beersmith has TF oat malt at 70% yield (1.033). If I adjust the yield to %60 the new potential SG is 1.028. This brought my overall recipe SG down 4 points making my brew day eff 65%! Much better.

I'm definitely going to start double checking this in the future with other fermentables.

Next brew day I'll make sure I to use a smaller mill gap on for my oat malt. Last time I used feeler gauges to measure .035 for the first run then .025 on the second.

Maybe after these adjustments I'll be able to join you guys in the ~70% mash eff club.

Thanks for all of the tips!
 

Dgallo

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Going to brew my newest edition of a Double Oat Cream ipa this weekend.

Grains;
49% - Pilsner
38% - Malted oats
10% - White Wheat
3% - Honey malt

Mash: 152*f

Hops:
Citra
Citra LUPOMAX
Strata
Idaho 7

Boil: Citra
WH: Idaho7 & Citra (3:1)
DH: Strata & Citra LUPOMAX (1:2)

Yeast: Imperial juice

I will update with the finished product
Alright so here is the finished product. Def the best version of an oat cream I’ve made. Perfect mouthfeel for this one and really diggin the hop combo
BD634912-08A9-4041-B3D0-1BEA1176BFB3.jpeg
 

Noob_Brewer

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Alright so here is the finished product. Def the best version of an oat cream I’ve made. Perfect mouthfeel for this one and really diggin the hop combo View attachment 697051
Looks great man! Ive played with this Hop combo a couple of times and still tweaking it. Its great though, Ive never left strata out of the whirlpool all together myself. Couple questions:

Did you use less Citra in the dry hop than usual because its LUPOMAX and supposedly more efficient or did you just roll with your norm dry hop rates? Haven't used LUPOMAX yet myself.

I thought I saw somewhere that you were intending to mash lower at like 150ish, did you stick with 152? Reason why I ask is that Ive done two of these now and generally according to MrPowers step mash schedule with the first ~40min at 149. Both have had absolutely fantastic mouthfeel and were not dry at all given the massive amount of oats in the recipe (I also used white wheat in mine) and both finished at 1.012, 1.013 (~8.0 ABV beers). Im definitely sticking with that mash schedule in for this beer.

Lastly, I haven't tried Imperial Juice yet, but care to comment on similarities/differences with A24 Dry Hop in terms of esters?

Thanks.
 
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