New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[lilbova3]

So what is the typical length expected of this style to stay in primary before kegging? How short is to short where off flavors become noticeable? When left to long can you start to lose anything from the dry hops. New to this style. Thanks.

For me - I like one dry hop on day 2-3 and I keg it on day 12-14. Different people have different systems and methods - but, that is what works best for me.

Brau is right, depends on your system, methods and beer I’d say. A lower OG can be turned quickly while a higher OG should take a little more time for fermentation and clean up.

My beers’ OG are usually 1.050-1.064. I overpitch slightly (to assure healthy ferment), ferment cooler and keg in seven days. Will dry hop on day 3 or 4. I’ll use one big charge in the primary and will add some to the keg.

 

[Andre3000]

I’ll use one big charge in the primary and will add some to the keg.

Are you leaving you keg dry hop in for only two days like Brau as well?

 

[brew703]

Going to be brewing this on Tuesday. Question I have is on water treatment.
Went to a local brewery yesterday and talked to the owner/brewer as they had a NEIPA on tap. He said they go 4:1 Chloride to sulfate. Anyone did this and what was the outcome?
I was set to go with what Brau said in post 1418 but now curious to know if I should stay as planned or make an adjustment.

 

[lilbova3]

Are you leaving you keg dry hop in for only two days like Brau as well?

No, I leave mine in for the duration of the keg but have it in a sack, tied to the keg and barely in the beer. So the keg hops might only be in contact for four days to a week.

 

[Braufessor]

Going to be brewing this on Tuesday. Question I have is on water treatment.
Went to a local brewery yesterday and talked to the owner/brewer as they had a NEIPA on tap. He said they go 4:1 Chloride to sulfate. Anyone did this and what was the outcome?
I was set to go with what Brau said in post 1418 but now curious to know if I should stay as planned or make an adjustment.

Ratios are really meaningless. 40:10 and100:25 and 400:100 are all 4:1...... they would give you a very different beer.

I go 125:125 all the time anymore. If you put both numbers, in any combination, between 75-150 it will make a good beer. You can play with it from there for personal preferences.

 

[stonebrewer]

I mashed at 66°C/151°F, is that temperature too high for this style?

Drop it to 146 or so and it will dry out a bit more. You are getting some alpha amylase at 151 making some sugars that the yeast can't digest. You can also do a two step mash, which is what I generally do because I like a little residual sweetness in an IPA. Cheers!

 

[aaronm13]

Drop it to 146 or so and it will dry out a bit more. You are getting some alpha amylase at 151 making some sugars that the yeast can't digest. You can also do a two step mash, which is what I generally do because I like a little residual sweetness in an IPA. Cheers!

Thanks. I've just tried my second version of this and I'm very happy with how it's turned out. Reckon I'll be keeping it in the same temperature range for future brews, maybe just up the grain bill to boot the ABV as this only came in around 5.5%. I like my ipa's in the mid to upper 6%.

I notice you're preparing a Westy 12 clone. Hope to be doing this over the next few days myself, just growing up my yeast at present. Are you using CSI's recipe?

 

[JohnK93]

Hey All,

I have 4oz each of Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy and am planning out my hopping schedule. I'm going to use .3oz of the Mosaic at 60min, and am going to split the rest between a flameout, whirlpool, and two dry hops. I was planning on doing basically 1:1:1 (except for the .3oz of mosaic at 60min) for each, but some comment that too much galaxy can be overpowering so I might want to scale back the galaxy for the dry hop additions.

Any recommendation for how to use these hops? I don't have to use them all, and I can also get more of them for the dry hops if needed.

This will be my second time brewing this recipe (or similar to it) but last time I didn't use any mosaic and did a 2:1 citral-galaxy blend. I'm also targeting a 1:2 Sulfate:Chloride ratio in the 75:150 range.

Thanks!

John

 

[stickyfinger]

Hey All,

Mosaic at 60min, and am going to split the rest between a flameout, whirlpool, and two dry hops. I was planning on doing basically 1:1:1 (except for the .3oz of mosaic at 60min) for each, but some comment that too much galaxy can be overpowering so I might want to scale back the galaxy for the dry hop additions.

This may sound crazy, but after a few more times using Galaxy, I've found that it can influence a beer more when less is added. That sounds crazy I know. I've added it as 1/3 of the hops and it really seemed to change the resulting beer (as compared to a side by side version using CTZ as the last 1/3 of the hops.) Then, I finally got up the guts to make a 100% Galaxy beer, and it is absolutely delicious. I'd highly recommend it. I like it better than using Galaxy as a part of the crowd it seems!

I took notes on who liked my citra-mosaic-galaxy vs citra-mosaic-ctz split batch, and it was pretty down the middle. It's just a personal preference, and any way you go will turn out great. I do really love the equal parts of each approach at all phases. I think I like Galaxy as a single hop more than Mosaic, though it is really close, and Citra is last for me as a single hop of the three. Anyway, just some ramblings...

 

[lilbova3]

Tried some Huell Melon with this style. Very much like prescribed, melon-like and some strawberry. Supplemented with 25% Citra. Tasty beer but Huell Melon doesn’t have the punch that the big name hops have. If you give Huell Melon a try just make sure to put a bunch in the beer! Fun to give it a try.

3.25 gallon batch size
1.062 OG
52% 2 Row
25% White Wheat
16% Maris Otter
4% Flaked Oat
3% Honey Malt

2 oz Huell Melon in WP
4 oz Huell Melon DH 1
2 oz Citra DH Keg

1318 yeast

 

[brew703]

I am always putting mine on tap by day 12-14 and drinking it by day 14-18 range. That being said, the main advantage I see in not trying to press it faster than I do (and for others giving it even more time) would be:
1.) VDK/Diacetyl issues that can pop up in these types of beers with big dry hops. The addition of hops later on (after active fermentation) can kick start a "small" fermentation from the carbohydrates in the hops (producing Diacetyl precursors). If the beer is then pulled off the yeast quickly before it is cleaned up, you can end up with some nasty off flavors in your beer. I have had my own versions and commercial versions that tasted great at stages of fermentation, but then all of a sudden turned horrible after a second dry hop and kegging. (This is also a reason I have moved toward 1 dry hop at day 2-3 range and nothing after that. Gives me all the flavor I was getting doing 2 dry hops and seems to give me a cleaner/rounder beer as well).
2.) Time lets hop debris settle out.... depending on someone's system and their ability to transfer..... there is not many things that are a bigger PITA than constantly trying to unplug keg posts stuffed with hops. So, extra time might be ok for that for some people too. That sort of thing can vary from person to person and system to system.

I brewed the updated version on Tuesday. Fermentation started yesterday. My plan is to add all DH additions at one time. Not sure if I should add at day 2 or 4. Fermentation is pretty vigorous at the time.
If I DH at day 4, which would be Sunday morning, or even Sat depending on how fermentation looks, and let the DH sit for 4 days then cold crash for 24-36 hours then keg. Do you think the yeast will be finished by day 10 or would it require a few more days? Just trying to time this right as it's my first attempt at the style in over a year.

 

[enobale]

I am always putting mine on tap by day 12-14 and drinking it by day 14-18 range. That being said, the main advantage I see in not trying to press it faster than I do (and for others giving it even more time) would be:
1.) VDK/Diacetyl issues that can pop up in these types of beers with big dry hops. The addition of hops later on (after active fermentation) can kick start a "small" fermentation from the carbohydrates in the hops (producing Diacetyl precursors). If the beer is then pulled off the yeast quickly before it is cleaned up, you can end up with some nasty off flavors in your beer. I have had my own versions and commercial versions that tasted great at stages of fermentation, but then all of a sudden turned horrible after a second dry hop and kegging. (This is also a reason I have moved toward 1 dry hop at day 2-3 range and nothing after that. Gives me all the flavor I was getting doing 2 dry hops and seems to give me a cleaner/rounder beer as well).
2.) Time lets hop debris settle out.... depending on someone's system and their ability to transfer..... there is not many things that are a bigger PITA than constantly trying to unplug keg posts stuffed with hops. So, extra time might be ok for that for some people too. That sort of thing can vary from person to person and system to system.

Brau,

I have a conical that I ferment in, before dry hopping do you suggest that I dump the trub that is at the bottom of the fermenter? I was told by a professional brewer that trub is not great for hops.

Thoughts?

Aaron

 

[Braufessor]

Brau,

I have a conical that I ferment in, before dry hopping do you suggest that I dump the trub that is at the bottom of the fermenter? I was told by a professional brewer that trub is not great for hops.

Thoughts?

Aaron

Sure- if you can do it in a way that is easy and sanitary - would not hurt to dump some off if it is settled to the bottom. Have not done this myself ( I try to eliminate transferring trub/break material, flame out hops to the fermenter in the first place.) My only thought would be how well has that material settled out at day 2-3 during active fermentation.

 

[Braufessor]

I brewed the updated version on Tuesday. Fermentation started yesterday. My plan is to add all DH additions at one time. Not sure if I should add at day 2 or 4. Fermentation is pretty vigorous at the time.
If I DH at day 4, which would be Sunday morning, or even Sat depending on how fermentation looks, and let the DH sit for 4 days then cold crash for 24-36 hours then keg. Do you think the yeast will be finished by day 10 or would it require a few more days? Just trying to time this right as it's my first attempt at the style in over a year.

Personally, I would shoot for day 3 or so.... you still want somewhat active fermentation going. Also, personally, I would not be in a hurry to cold crash it. I think a couple extra days is a good thing to make sure the yeast is totally done with what it needs to do. You are not really asking the yeast to be done at day 10 if you cold crash at day 8. Once you cold crash, your yeast are pretty much done doing what they are going to do. I think cold crashing at day 8 is borderline..... it may be totally fine. It may have needed another couple days. To me, I would rather give it another couple days just in case than try to rush it a couple days early (unless it needs to be done by that time for some event, etc.) If you want to go for the 8 day mark, just make sure days 6-7-8 the temp is in the 70-72 range to make sure the yeast has the temps it needs to finish up strong.

 

[enobale]

Sure- if you can do it in a way that is easy and sanitary - would not hurt to dump some off if it is settled to the bottom. Have not done this myself ( I try to eliminate transferring trub/break material, flame out hops to the fermenter in the first place.) My only thought would be how well has that material settled out at day 2-3 during active fermentation.

I'm going to give it a shot! I've done this before using your recipe and everything seemed to work out with no issues. The only thing different I'm going to try out is having 1 dry hop addition instead of the 2nd hop addition.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Cheers!

Aaron

 

[fragged]

Just tasted my FG sample (1318 @1.016 from 1.067 15 days).

Delicious. Very fruity and juicy. The smell is amazing. This was using citra, mosaic, galaxy @ 3/2/1 all at day 3.

Can't wait til it's ready in the keg.

Thanks @Braufessor.

 

[brew703]

Personally, I would shoot for day 3 or so.... you still want somewhat active fermentation going. Also, personally, I would not be in a hurry to cold crash it. I think a couple extra days is a good thing to make sure the yeast is totally done with what it needs to do. You are not really asking the yeast to be done at day 10 if you cold crash at day 8. Once you cold crash, your yeast are pretty much done doing what they are going to do. I think cold crashing at day 8 is borderline..... it may be totally fine. It may have needed another couple days. To me, I would rather give it another couple days just in case than try to rush it a couple days early (unless it needs to be done by that time for some event, etc.) If you want to go for the 8 day mark, just make sure days 6-7-8 the temp is in the 70-72 range to make sure the yeast has the temps it needs to finish up strong.

Today would be day 3 and the krausen has started to drop. I'll take a gravity sample and probably add the DH addition today. Currently temp is at 65 so I'll let it sit there for a few more days then raise up to 70 to finish.
Gravity check: 1.022. Went ahead and added DH.
Thanks for the info.

 

[stickyfinger]

anyone do an azacca single hop?

 

[Andre3000]

Just tasted my FG sample (1318 @1.016 from 1.067 15 days).

Delicious. Very fruity and juicy. The smell is amazing. This was using citra, mosaic, galaxy @ 3/2/1 all at day 3.

Can't wait til it's ready in the keg.

Thanks @Braufessor.

Only dryhop? Or did you flameout/whirlpool as well.

 

[fragged]

Only dryhop? Or did you flameout/whirlpool as well.

Whirlpool only. 2 oz of each.

 

[jivy26]

First brew since the move thanks for all the support [emoji108]

 

[hazy79]

Took my first attempt and Brewed this recipe as 15 gallon batch. Kept the same grain bill and hops. The aroma color and appearance are on point. Force carbed at 30psi. Brought it down to 20 for two days, back to serving pressure of 12 psi. Got the water profile to 130:65 Cl:S04. Juicy/ Soft mouthfeel. Better than some of the commercial examples of this style, Awesome Recipe Braufessor!!

40% 2 Row
40% Golden Promise
8% Flaked Oats
4% White Wheat Malt
4%Flaked Barley
2% Flaked Wheat
2% Honey Malt

60 minute mash
1.5 oz of Warrior 60 min
5 oz Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy whirlpool additions @170F
Dry Hop 1 -2.5 oz
Dry Hop 2 -3 oz

OG 1.065 PH 5.4
FG 1.020

 

[dg2001]

Do most of you begin chilling immediately after addding flame out hops or are y’all doing a hop stand? Also how long does it take most of you to get wort under 170?

 

[Chrispy92]

Update time,

Batch 1 which followed more or less this recipe (with more wheat malt subbed to reduce oats and potentially faster oxidation with bottle conditioning) is absolutely delicious. Juicy and smooth fermented with wlp007. Ferm temps were controlled and this beer is almost completely flawless.... Better than some commercial examples.

It's a bit darker than expected and I would probably guess this is due to basic malts being used, standard 2 row and wheat malt... I did notice that the beer darkened slightly after bottling.... Although to what extent this will change with my process is not known yet. I bottled two in corona bottles to watch the change in color.

Batch 2 was not ferm controlled and used different hops (Citra cascade Simcoe) although the process was identical. Used s05 and I think the lack of ferm temp control has resulted in a slightly twangy homebrew taste to the finished beer. Unfortunate but still a very drinkable beer. I'll update with a pic of this when I pour the next pint.

Next time I think I will use all light ingredients to try and and get it a lighter color. To what extent I can maintain this with bottle conditioning is another question....

May be time for kegs... Hmmm

 

[Braufessor]

Do most of you begin chilling immediately after addding flame out hops or are y’all doing a hop stand? Also how long does it take most of you to get wort under 170?

I now start chilling before any flame out hops. Chiller starts..... wort is under 170 in only 3-4 minutes probably..... those first 50 degrees go fast. I add all my hops and keep chilling.... no "hop stand" at a particular temp. I just get it on its way to chilling, add all 6 ounces, keep chilling.

 

[k-daddy]

Tapped the keg on Christmas Eve. Made for a very nice holiday. Hit all my numbers on brew day. Used Braufessor's updated recipe (#1418) and 6 oz. dry hop on day 2 of fermentation. Racked to keg on day 18. First time using White Labs WLP095 Burlington Ale. Aromatic and very tasty. Happy New Year to all.

 

[anteater8]

anyone do an azacca single hop?

I have done Azacca single hop with this recipe. It was good but not my favorite of the dozen or so hop combos I've tested. It was surprisingly earthy but had a really nice fruity strawberry, pineapple, papaya character in the background. Not as "bright" as Citra or Mosaic.

I had a single hop Galaxy on tap at the same time and I always ended up blending the two, which I preferred more than either single hop alone.

 

[Braufessor]

NE IPA brewers can make clear beer when they want to My other favorite beer - German Pilsner.

 

[EndOfLine]

That pilsner looks amazing! Mind sharing your recipe??

I'm planning a Vienna lager next as well as a Vienna malt NE IPA

 

[Braufessor]

That pilsner looks amazing! Mind sharing your recipe??

I'm planning a Vienna lager next as well as a Vienna malt NE IPA

57%% Weyerman Pils
25% Rahr 2 Row
15% Vienna
3% CaraHell

OG = 1.051

25 IBU Magnum to Bitter @ 60 minutes (1/2-3/4 ounce or so for me)
1/2 ounce Edelweiss @ 30
1.5 ounce Edelweiss @10
1 ounce Edelweiss @ 0

***Edelweiss is a Lager blend of hops from Hop Heaven - only place you can get it that I know of. I really like it, personally. You could also sub in all Saaz, or all Hallertau, or all Tettnang. Maybe a combo of Hallertau and Tettnang (tettnang in late additions).

Yeast = Whitelabs German Lager 830....... (Wyeast 2124 is same)

Water:
100% RO water for mash and sparge.
Ca = 51
Mg = 3
Na = 8
Sulfate = 85
Chloride = 38
Bicarbonate = 16
Projected pH = 5.24
*Something like the Jever Profile in B'run Water

For me, my total additions to the mash (all additions went in mash, none in sparge) were:
2.5 grams gypsum
1 gram CaCl
.5 grams Epsom
2ml lactic acid in mash, 1 ml lactic acid in sparge water.

Fermentation =
Start around 49-50
At about day 6 or so, I put spunding valve on at 15-20 psi
increase 1-2 degrees per day up to 55.
Around day 10-12 I pull kegs out (valve still on) and leave them at 60-65 room temp for about 5 days.
back in freezer where I decrease temp 3-5 degrees per day down to 32 and then I let it sit for 2-3 weeks.
Around week 5 or so, I jump to serving keg
*** I have had a lot of success leaving the beer on the yeast long like this - really cleans it up nicely in my experience.

* I do incorporate some LoDO techniques with my pilsners..... boiling water, mash cap, gentle recirculation, gentle introduction of sparge water, gentle boil. I used small amount of sodium metabisulfate in mash and sparge - about .25 grams in each. I ferment my pilsners in kegs and use spunding valve...... I do eventually jump it to serving keg.

*** For pale lagers, with relatively low mineral additions, I like to add ALL the minerals to the mash, and none to the sparge. This helps me bring pH down with less acid. I also feel like it gives me a clearer beer in the end than if I split my minerals between mash and sparge..... My rationale for doing this (while I don't claim to fully understand it) is based on past problems I have had with "hazy" pilsners, helles, kolsch, etc. Low calcium levels (like many lager profiles call for) can leave oxalate in the beer (causing haze later). My theory was more calcium in the mash would precipitate out oxalate as calcium oxalate and help with that. So..... I started putting all my minerals in the mash on beers like this - I have had much, much better results with clarity...... whether that is the reason for improvement.... I can't claim for certain.... but it has worked for me. See this link for some talk of it, and there is other info out there that led me in that direction too - http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-15069.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...47&s=bb3b5cc06cd4944f96118171a469de9d11e6792f

Calcium oxalate

Haze can also be caused by calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate is formed from oxalic acid and calcium. Oxalic acid already exists in barley and calcium is available from the water. The oxalic acid concentration is dependent on the year of harvest with calcium coming mostly from the brewing water. The solubility product of calcium oxalate in beer is low and therefore it precipitates in the form of crystals. Those crystals can have the form of octahedrons, rosettes, prisms and amorphous forms16,38,39. It is impor- tant that there is sufficient calcium in the grist to ensure precipitation of the oxalate8.

 

[stonebrewer]

Thanks. I've just tried my second version of this and I'm very happy with how it's turned out. Reckon I'll be keeping it in the same temperature range for future brews, maybe just up the grain bill to boot the ABV as this only came in around 5.5%. I like my ipa's in the mid to upper 6%.

I notice you're preparing a Westy 12 clone. Hope to be doing this over the next few days myself, just growing up my yeast at present. Are you using CSI's recipe?

<off topic>
Yep, pretty much follow the CSI recipe, decoct the mash twice, add in the D-180 3 times, and age for a long time. Hardest part is aging it that long AND not drinking it all as fast as you can. Great recipe, fantastic beer! Waiting for it to get out of the 20's to brew, because I cannot get my decoction temps right when it is this cold!
</off topic>

Instead of upping the grain bill, I usually just add corn sugar to increase ABV. This way it doesn't affect the malt flavor in respect to the hops. Cheers!

 

[Andre3000]

Not overly enamored with my first attempt, though it is drinkable . Color is spot on but the hop flavor and punch just isn't there the way I'd like it to be so I'm looking for critique. I used:

78% 2-row / Golden promise 50:50
8% Flaked oats
8% Flaked wheat
3.5% White wheat malt
2.5% Honey malt

I happened upon a large quantity of hops for almost free when I started this home brewing adventure back in November. There wasn't any Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy, but there was enough to attempt the Amarillo/Centennial/Simcoe. I followed the 1.5:1:0.5 leaving the Centennial out of the dry hops. I think I had a few issues:

1. I calculated my batch size based on 4.25 gallon and I ended up with almost 6 in the fermenter, so not enough hops, period. Probably ended up being more like 1:0.6:0.3.
2. I've got a keggle and I've plugged my dip tube off with hop trub before so I've started using a hop spider. People say a spider may give you 10% utilization loss; that may be true for other styles, but I can't help but think that those hop particulates are doing something for the flavor and throwing them out is not a good idea until racking time so I probably didn't get the utilization from this step. I'm going to try to come up with a work-around so I can direct pitch them in.
3. I used a large tea ball for a 4 day keg dry hop which was absolutely swelled to the max by the time I pulled it out. Again, probably not the utilization I wanted.

I'm using Bru'N water and brought sulfate/chloride to 126/135. Bicarbonate is high at 146 so I had to add about 4.3 mL of lactic acid. Everything else is within reasonable levels.

I used some yeast harvested and propagated from a can of a local brewery's beer called Blindman Brewing NEPA (pretty sure it's 1318). I think I'll ditch the starter and go with some new 1318 next time for peace of mind.

Could the hop issues I outlined above have caused the underwhelming flavor? Also, not entirely sure I can get my hands on bulk Galaxy hop, what are some good substitutes? I've read Azacca. Any others?

 

[EndOfLine]

57%% Weyerman Pils
25% Rahr 2 Row
15% Vienna
3% CaraHell

OG = 1.051

25 IBU Magnum to Bitter @ 60 minutes (1/2-3/4 ounce or so for me)
1/2 ounce Edelweiss @ 30
1.5 ounce Edelweiss @10
1 ounce Edelweiss @ 0

***Edelweiss is a Lager blend of hops from Hop Heaven - only place you can get it that I know of. I really like it, personally. You could also sub in all Saaz, or all Hallertau, or all Tettnang. Maybe a combo of Hallertau and Tettnang (tettnang in late additions).

Yeast = Whitelabs German Lager 830....... (Wyeast 2124 is same)

Water:
100% RO water for mash and sparge.
Ca = 51
Mg = 3
Na = 8
Sulfate = 85
Chloride = 38
Bicarbonate = 16
Projected pH = 5.24
*Something like the Jever Profile in B'run Water

For me, my total additions to the mash (all additions went in mash, none in sparge) were:
2.5 grams gypsum
1 gram CaCl
.5 grams Epsom
2ml lactic acid in mash, 1 ml lactic acid in sparge water.

Fermentation =
Start around 49-50
At about day 6 or so, I put spunding valve on at 15-20 psi
increase 1-2 degrees per day up to 55.
Around day 10-12 I pull kegs out (valve still on) and leave them at 60-65 room temp for about 5 days.
back in freezer where I decrease temp 3-5 degrees per day down to 32 and then I let it sit for 2-3 weeks.
Around week 5 or so, I jump to serving keg
*** I have had a lot of success leaving the beer on the yeast long like this - really cleans it up nicely in my experience.

* I do incorporate some LoDO techniques with my pilsners..... boiling water, mash cap, gentle recirculation, gentle introduction of sparge water, gentle boil. I used small amount of sodium metabisulfate in mash and sparge - about .25 grams in each. I ferment my pilsners in kegs and use spunding valve...... I do eventually jump it to serving keg.

*** For pale lagers, with relatively low mineral additions, I like to add ALL the minerals to the mash, and none to the sparge. This helps me bring pH down with less acid. I also feel like it gives me a clearer beer in the end than if I split my minerals between mash and sparge..... My rationale for doing this (while I don't claim to fully understand it) is based on past problems I have had with "hazy" pilsners, helles, kolsch, etc. Low calcium levels (like many lager profiles call for) can leave oxalate in the beer (causing haze later). My theory was more calcium in the mash would precipitate out oxalate as calcium oxalate and help with that. So..... I started putting all my minerals in the mash on beers like this - I have had much, much better results with clarity...... whether that is the reason for improvement.... I can't claim for certain.... but it has worked for me. See this link for some talk of it, and there is other info out there that led me in that direction too - http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-15069.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...47&s=bb3b5cc06cd4944f96118171a469de9d11e6792f

Calcium oxalate

Haze can also be caused by calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate is formed from oxalic acid and calcium. Oxalic acid already exists in barley and calcium is available from the water. The oxalic acid concentration is dependent on the year of harvest with calcium coming mostly from the brewing water. The solubility product of calcium oxalate in beer is low and therefore it precipitates in the form of crystals. Those crystals can have the form of octahedrons, rosettes, prisms and amorphous forms16,38,39. It is impor- tant that there is sufficient calcium in the grist to ensure precipitation of the oxalate8.

Awesome, well informed reply and description of your process, as usual! Thank you.

Recently, I have been doing no sparge, all mineral/acid additions for all my beers. I have also been adding MORE of my trub into the fermentors and my beers have gotten clearer!

 

[jjw5015]

Not overly enamored with my first attempt, though it is drinkable . Color is spot on but the hop flavor and punch just isn't there the way I'd like it to be so I'm looking for critique. I used:

78% 2-row / Golden promise 50:50
8% Flaked oats
8% Flaked wheat
3.5% White wheat malt
2.5% Honey malt

I happened upon a large quantity of hops for almost free when I started this home brewing adventure back in November. There wasn't any Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy, but there was enough to attempt the Amarillo/Centennial/Simcoe. I followed the 1.5:1:0.5 leaving the Centennial out of the dry hops. I think I had a few issues:

1. I calculated my batch size based on 4.25 gallon and I ended up with almost 6 in the fermenter, so not enough hops, period. Probably ended up being more like 1:0.6:0.3.
2. I've got a keggle and I've plugged my dip tube off with hop trub before so I've started using a hop spider. People say a spider may give you 10% utilization loss; that may be true for other styles, but I can't help but think that those hop particulates are doing something for the flavor and throwing them out is not a good idea until racking time so I probably didn't get the utilization from this step. I'm going to try to come up with a work-around so I can direct pitch them in.
3. I used a large tea ball for a 4 day keg dry hop which was absolutely swelled to the max by the time I pulled it out. Again, probably not the utilization I wanted.

I'm using Bru'N water and brought sulfate/chloride to 126/135. Bicarbonate is high at 146 so I had to add about 4.3 mL of lactic acid. Everything else is within reasonable levels.

I used some yeast harvested and propagated from a can of a local brewery's beer called Blindman Brewing NEPA (pretty sure it's 1318). I think I'll ditch the starter and go with some new 1318 next time for peace of mind.

Could the hop issues I outlined above have caused the underwhelming flavor? Also, not entirely sure I can get my hands on bulk Galaxy hop, what are some good substitutes? I've read Azacca. Any others?

View attachment 552191

Do you know how old the hops are?

 

[stickyfinger]

Not overly enamored with my first attempt, though it is drinkable . Color is spot on but the hop flavor and punch just isn't there the way I'd like it to be so I'm looking for critique. I used:

78% 2-row / Golden promise 50:50
8% Flaked oats
8% Flaked wheat
3.5% White wheat malt
2.5% Honey malt

I happened upon a large quantity of hops for almost free when I started this home brewing adventure back in November. There wasn't any Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy, but there was enough to attempt the Amarillo/Centennial/Simcoe. I followed the 1.5:1:0.5 leaving the Centennial out of the dry hops. I think I had a few issues:

1. I calculated my batch size based on 4.25 gallon and I ended up with almost 6 in the fermenter, so not enough hops, period. Probably ended up being more like 1:0.6:0.3.
2. I've got a keggle and I've plugged my dip tube off with hop trub before so I've started using a hop spider. People say a spider may give you 10% utilization loss; that may be true for other styles, but I can't help but think that those hop particulates are doing something for the flavor and throwing them out is not a good idea until racking time so I probably didn't get the utilization from this step. I'm going to try to come up with a work-around so I can direct pitch them in.
3. I used a large tea ball for a 4 day keg dry hop which was absolutely swelled to the max by the time I pulled it out. Again, probably not the utilization I wanted.

I'm using Bru'N water and brought sulfate/chloride to 126/135. Bicarbonate is high at 146 so I had to add about 4.3 mL of lactic acid. Everything else is within reasonable levels.

I used some yeast harvested and propagated from a can of a local brewery's beer called Blindman Brewing NEPA (pretty sure it's 1318). I think I'll ditch the starter and go with some new 1318 next time for peace of mind.

Could the hop issues I outlined above have caused the underwhelming flavor? Also, not entirely sure I can get my hands on bulk Galaxy hop, what are some good substitutes? I've read Azacca. Any others?

View attachment 552191

You probably just need more hops. I always use at least 1oz/gal for hopstanding and at least 1oz/gal for dryhop. If it's a more mellow hop (compared with mosaic,galaxy,denali,eureka, etc.) l will use 1.5 oz/gal. The "older" hops just don't seem to have the intensity of the newer hops, so I have become used to the intensity of beers with the newer hops and the old hops start tasting kind of mild. no dry hops in the fermentor just in the keg?

 

[Andre3000]

Do you know how old the hops are?

Some of them could be two years old, but they were sealed in original packaging.

You probably just need more hops. I always use at least 1oz/gal for hopstanding and at least 1oz/gal for dryhop. If it's a more mellow hop (compared with mosaic,galaxy,denali,eureka, etc.) l will use 1.5 oz/gal. The "older" hops just don't seem to have the intensity of the newer hops, so I have become used to the intensity of beers with the newer hops and the old hops start tasting kind of mild. no dry hops in the fermentor just in the keg?

Yes I did one addition when the gravity was around 1.024 or so.

 

[stickyfinger]

Some of them could be two years old, but they were sealed in original packaging.



Yes I did one addition when the gravity was around 1.024 or so.

Try using 1 oz/gal in the hopstand and in the dryhop (in primary). you can also play with using hops in the keg while serving. some people seem to like that (i don't like that flavor in general.)

 

[Andre3000]

Try using 1 oz/gal in the hopstand and in the dryhop (in primary). you can also play with using hops in the keg while serving. some people seem to like that (i don't like that flavor in general.)

Thanks. I think I'm going to do what Brau suggested which is a two large additions, one at flameout quickly into whirlpool and one massive dryhop at the tail end of fermentation on day 3 or so, keg by day 12. This way I don't have to muck about with keg dry hops and tea balls causing oxidation. I've got a ton of Citra/Mosaic on the way and I'm trying to decide if the third hop should be Amarillo or Azacca.

 

[k-daddy]

Thanks. I think I'm going to do what Brau suggested which is a two large additions, one at flameout quickly into whirlpool and one massive dryhop at the tail end of fermentation on day 3 or so, keg by day 12. This way I don't have to muck about with keg dry hops and tea balls causing oxidation. I've got a ton of Citra/Mosaic on the way and I'm trying to decide if the third hop should be Amarillo or Azacca.

This was my process (#5626). I've brewed this recipe 3 times now, the first 2 using the original hop schedule. I like the thought of dry hoping during fermentation where co2 is still being actively produced and blanketing the beer. I have to say this new process was both easy and clean, with no apparent loss in hop aroma or flavor. Really good ale!

 

[Andre3000]

This was my process (#5626). I've brewed this recipe 3 times now, the first 2 using the original hop schedule. I like the thought of dry hoping during fermentation where co2 is still being actively produced and blanketing the beer. I have to say this new process was both easy and clean, with no apparent loss in hop aroma or flavor. Really good ale!

Any noticeable difference in flavor and aroma between the two methods?