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[OakIslandBrewery]

Oh, man, you got caves? Sweet! You could have a great spot for true lagering.

To your question, yes brew a lager style of beer but use an ale yeast. I would explore those caves, safely, and see if you could utilize them for your beer storage. That's what was used before refrigeration.

When I say using the fridge, I mean just use it to condition your beer not lager it. It's really just a spot to keep it cold and give it time to settle out to clear the beer. After it has cleared up some folks transfer to another keg before serving. I skip that and serve from the same keg. You're going to get some cloudiness in first couple pints but no big deal. Dump or drink it, doesn't matter. I drink it.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I brew many typical lager styles as ales and they turn out fine. Lots of folks will disagree with that idea but it works for me and most can't taste the difference. I like the results it offers in my brews and in the end I'm brewing for me.

If you're entering a beer into competition I wouldn't suggest it and there's many purists out there that would condemn it.

 

[Bagarge]

Oh, man, you got caves? Sweet! You could have a great spot for true lagering.

To your question, yes brew a lager style of beer but use an ale yeast. I would explore those caves, safely, and see if you could utilize them for your beer storage. That's what was used before refrigeration.

When I say using the fridge, I mean just use it to condition your beer not lager it. It's really just a spot to keep it cold and give it time to settle out to clear the beer. After it has cleared up some folks transfer to another keg before serving. I skip that and serve from the same keg. You're going to get some cloudiness in first couple pints but no big deal. Dump or drink it, doesn't matter. I drink it.

Yeah i have a couple deep water mine caves, about 20 metres in and 7/10 metres below ground level.

I would like to produce some decent larger beers in the future to accommodate the local palette. Like i said its mainly a wine country but everyone drinks the largers on a hot day. Its a big drinking country here haha! I would like to offer something similar but better. Shouldnt be hard as there is literally 2 brands of commercial larger available.

I think i will get my basics dialled down before i attempt some true larger though.

I read that brewing under pressure can emphasise the larger quality?

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Not sure that pressurized fermenting improves quality. The quality part needs to be achieved with either an ale or a lager during the brewing. Not sure what you mean

I have tried the pressure part before but I have mixed opinions on it. If you search it here you'll get a better idea than I can give you.

Like you mentioned there's lots to learn and that might be something to research more when you get more comfortable with brewing itself.

I know where you're at being overwhelmed with everything brewing related. Take it slow and learn as you go then the more advanced options will make better sense.

 

[Stikius]

You could also try fermentis s-23. I've brewed lagers around 18-20°C with that yeast that were really good.

 

[Rish]

Go to our:

Warm Fermented Lager Thread​

Tons of information that may help you there. Good luck!

 

[Bagarge]

Update:

So its been 20 days now fermenting, temps have been a bit hard to control in the very early mornings and may have dipped to 17c.

Took a SG reading today at day 20 and it is 1.016

Only 2 points from 4 days ago. Shall i go ahead and add my hops?

The kit says wait for a reading of 1.010 but maybe i wont get there
Opinions?

 

[Stikius]

I suggest to take a new reading tomorrow or next day. If it's still dropping it's still fermenting. I usually wait for the readings to be stable for 2 or 3 days.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I agree, letting it sit a couple more days won't hurt anything. Actually giving the bucket a slight shake might help the yeast a little, come out if it's slumber. Just a slight jiggle, and be careful.

It's possible the yeast just stopped working its magic. It's not the end of the world if it's done but something to note for your next brew.

 

[IslandLizard]

temps have been a bit hard to control in the very early mornings and may have dipped to 17c.

That's why many of us homebrewers use a (dedicated) fermentation chamber, usually an (old) fridge (or freezer) controlled by an external thermostat (e.g., Inkbird ITC-308). Most of those thermostats have 2 channels, a cooling and warming channel.

During colder times a (small) heating source (heating pad, small space heater, reptile lamp, etc.) kicks in when ferm temps drop below the set target.

There are a few other options for regulating ferm temps. Key is to keep them stable. Low-ish in the beginning to prevent the yeast from binging, creating bad tasting fusel alcohols. Then ramp up a few degrees toward the end, to help her staying engaged, to finish out, and condition the beer by metabolizing fermentation byproducts into yummy esters.

Took a SG reading today at day 20 and it is 1.016

Only 2 points from 4 days ago. Shall i go ahead and add my hops?

Patience is a virtue when brewing/fermenting. After a few brews, you'll get used to it.
It's going slow toward the end, for a variety of reasons: finishing up while slowly nibbling off a few extra points.

 

[IslandLizard]

Don't take daily readings, wait 4 days in between. If it hasn't budged in 4 days (under stable temps), it's likely done attenuating. Then you can add your dry hops, and bottle 3-4 days later.

 

[Bagarge]

That's why many of us homebrewers use a (dedicated) fermentation chamber, usually an (old) fridge (or freezer) controlled by an external thermostat (e.g., Inkbird ITC-308). Most of those thermostats have 2 channels, a cooling and warming channel.

During colder times a (small) heating source (heating pad, small space heater, reptile lamp, etc.) kicks in when ferm temps drop below the set target.

There are a few other options for regulating ferm temps. Key is to keep them stable. Low-ish in the beginning to prevent the yeast from binging, creating bad tasting fusel alcohols. Then ramp up a few degrees toward the end, to help her staying engaged, to finish out, and condition the beer by metabolizing fermentation byproducts into yummy esters.


Patience is a virtue when brewing/fermenting. After a few brews, you'll get used to it.
It's going slow toward the end, for a variety of reasons: finishing up while slowly nibbling off a few extra points.

That is a great idea. I will be engineering something like that for the next brew for sure!

Thanks for the tips!

I have a heat mat that i can put under the bucket if that will help. I just dont know the actual temp it goes too. Im quite sure not above 25c as it is for growning mushrooms

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Your first brew is like bringing your first newborn home. More questions than answers and a constant state of worrying what to do next.

All the books and videos cannot replace actual experiences. You'll get there. Even after brewing for decades I still wonder how it's going to turn out.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a heat mat that i can put under the bucket if that will help. I just dont know the actual temp it goes too. Im quite sure not above 25c as it is for growning mushrooms

That will help keeping the temps up, sure.

So does putting a piece of insulation (foam, carpet, folded up old blanket, etc.) under the bucket to preventing a cold floor from sucking the heat out of your bucket.
And an old sleeping bag wrapped around the whole setup.

Just make sure it's all fire-safe when using heating pads and flammables together.

 

[Bagarge]

After checking the SG yesterday the airlock a
Has completely stopped bubbling. Add hops?

 

[RM-MN]

After checking the SG yesterday the airlock a
Has completely stopped bubbling. Add hops?

Yes, it is time to add dry hops. The bubbling stopped because you let out the pressure when you took the FG sample. The yeast had quit making CO2 a long time ago as they only do that while there is a lot of sugars for them to eat but there will be more CO2 dissolved in the beer and that will continue to outgas. Given time the CO2 in the fermenter will build pressure and the airlock will bubble some more, albeit very slowly.

 

[Bagarge]

Yes, it is time to add dry hops. The bubbling stopped because you let out the pressure when you took the FG sample. The yeast had quit making CO2 a long time ago as they only do that while there is a lot of sugars for them to eat but there will be more CO2 dissolved in the beer and that will continue to outgas. Given time the CO2 in the fermenter will build pressure and the airlock will bubble some more, albeit very slowly.

So i added the hops about 10 minutes ago and it has started bubbling even more. Once every 5 seconds or so haha!
This is normal i assume?

 

[mac_1103]

This is normal i assume?

Yes. Like RM-MN said, there is CO2 dissolved in your beer. The hops serve as nucleation points for that CO2 to break out of solution. It has to go somewhere, so the airlock starts bubbling again.

 

[Bagarge]

Yes. Like RM-MN said, there is CO2 dissolved in your beer. The hops serve as nucleation points for that CO2 to break out of solution. It has to go somewhere, so the airlock starts bubbling again.

The kit says 2-3 days with added hops before bottling. Do i assume the SG will not drop anymore or shall i take another reading before bottling?

 

[RM-MN]

I always take a reading after adding hops. It may not be necessary but it is good practice.

 

[Bagarge]

I always take a reading after adding hops. It may not be necessary but it is good practice.

I like good practice. Ill be sure to take a reading or two before bottling

 

[mac_1103]

Do i assume the SG will not drop anymore or shall i take another reading before bottling?

IIRC, the kit instructions indicated that you should expect it to drop a couple more points. Whether or not that's hop creep I couldn't say.

 

[Bagarge]

Update.

4 days after adding the hops i took a reading.
1.012
We are getting there. 2/3 days ill take another reading and if it has not changed do i start to bottle?

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I say , thumbs up. 1.012 is a good time to bottle but giving an extra couple days won't hurt anything.

During your wait time, gather up all of your bottles, make sure they are clean and ready to sanitize before the bottling day. Gather up your caps, bottle capper ( unless you're using swing top bottles) and hose. Again, anything touching your beer needs to be clean and sanitized!

 

[Bagarge]

I say , thumbs up. 1.012 is a good time to bottle but giving an extra couple days won't hurt anything.

During your wait time, gather up all of your bottles, make sure they are clean and ready to sanitize before the bottling day. Gather up your caps, bottle capper ( unless you're using swing top bottles) and hose. Again, anything touching your beer needs to be clean and sanitized!

Ok i will take one last sg reading tomorrow and bottle if it the same.

I am filling the beer into half litre bottles. Anybody know how much priming sugar to use? I know measurements are different in the U.S

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I wish I had a good answer for you, I keg my beer and force carbonate with CO2.

I did a search here and found a post that suggested 4 ounces of cane sugar for five gallons of beer. I don't remember what I used when bottles but it seems close.

Not sure about your bottle size. Hopefully someone comes up with a better idea.

 

[Bagarge]

Would it be best to transfer the beer to another vessel and dissolve the priming sugar before bottling or will this cause over exposure to oxygen?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

bottle conditioning priming calculator:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

If dosing individual bottles, use the bottle size (in liters) for the amount being packaged.

 

[Bagarge]

bottle conditioning priming calculator:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

I have seen this but this doesnt give any measurements for adding individually to half litre bottles.
The priming sugar comes with the pack so the amount is right.

I would rather mix it in to the beer rather than each bottle with a spoon. My question is will this expose to too much oxygen transfering the beer to another vessel and mixing the sugar before racking off into bottles

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I would rather mix it in to the beer rather than each bottle with a spoon. My question is will this expose to too much oxygen transfering the beer to another vessel and mixing the sugar before racking off into bottles

Adding sugar to a bottling bucket is not ideal.

eta: gentle transfers and storing the bottles cold after conditioning will minimize or delay the damage due to oxygen pickup.

For bottle conditioning (vs transfers from kegs), as of about 2021, forum wisdom seems to have settled on

• using fermentors with spigots,
• dosing individual bottles,
• minimizing headspace in the bottle, and
• storing bottles cold.

Here's an article: How To Bottle NEIPA

 

[Bagarge]

Adding sugar to a bottling bucket is not ideal.

eta: gentle transfers and storing the bottles cold after conditioning will minimize or delay the damage due to oxygen pickup.

For bottle conditioning (vs transfers from kegs), as of about 2021, forum wisdom seems to have settled on

• using fermentors with spigots,
• dosing individual bottles,
• minimizing headspace in the bottle, and
• storing bottles cold.

Here's an article: How To Bottle NEIPA

Thankyou there is some good information in there.

Still no measurement as to how much priming sugar to use per bottle

 

[Bagarge]

The kit does say to siphon the beer into another clean bucket, add the priming sugar then siphon back to bottles…

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Still no measurement as to how much priming sugar to use per bottle

Bottle priming calculators will calculate the amount of priming sugar based on the numbers you provide

The kit does say to siphon the beer into another clean bucket, add the priming sugar then siphon back to bottles…

Following the kit instructions is an alternative.

 

[Bagarge]

Bottle priming calculators will calculate the amount of priming sugar based on the numbers you provide


Following the kit instructions is an alternative.

It wont calculate for some reason. Also how am i supposed to know the co2 content in the beer?
I think i will follow the kit and mix in a seperate container. Not ideal but will have to do

 

[mac_1103]

Also how am i supposed to know the co2 content in the beer?

You don't have to. The calculator adjusts this value based on what you enter for the temperature of the beer. For half liter bottles at 20C, 3.3 g of table sugar or 3.2 g of corn sugar will give 2.5 volumes of CO2.

 

[Bagarge]

You don't have to. The calculator adjusts this value based on what you enter for the temperature of the beer. For half liter bottles at 20C, 3.3 g of table sugar or 3.2 g of corn sugar will give 2.5 volumes of CO2.

Ahh ok i see now.

Is it not perhaps and option to add the priming sugar into the fermenter directly? Then allow to dissolve and go straight to bottling?

 

[mac_1103]

Is it not perhaps and option to add the priming sugar into the fermenter directly? Then allow to dissolve and go straight to bottling?

Yes it is and some people do. Personally I'm not very good at mixing the sugar in well without stirring up the junk on the bottom of the fermenter.

 

[Bagarge]

Yes it is and some people do. Personally I'm not very good at mixing the sugar in well without stirring up the junk on the bottom of the fermenter.

The sugar looks quite finely powdered. Would i have to somehow stir without disturbing the sediment? That sounds like quite a challenge

Would it not settle again after some time or does it need to go straight into bottles?

 

[mac_1103]

The sugar looks quite finely powdered. Would i have to somehow stir without disturbing the sediment? That sounds like quite a challenge

Most folks add the sugar to some water and boil it for a few minutes to make sure it's dissolved well and to avoid contaminating the beer. Some people do manage to stir the priming sugar in gently but well without stirring up too much of the gunk. It's just not something that I'm very good at. So I either transfer clear beer to another container or dose individual bottles. I find it tedious to weigh out individual sugar doses for a large number of bottles so I dissolve it and use a syringe. Most of this really comes down to personal preference.

Would it not settle again after some time or does it need to go straight into bottles?

It would settle again eventually, but it will take longer than you will want to wait.

 

[hotbeer]

It is a challenge to stir without disturbing the trub. So don't do it. You don't want all that trub becoming sediment on the bottom of your bottles making it harder to get a clean pour. Oxidation while a problem isn't that big of one for normal ales and IPA that you are going to consume in a short time.

So if you use a bottling bucket to rack the clean beer into and then add your sugar, you can gently stir it till it's dissolved. I like to dissolve the sugar in a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water before adding. That'll help it dissolve. If the inside of your pot is shiny, then look at the beer and you'll probably see wavy patterns as the light shines through it after you add the sugar. That is telling you you have multiple areas of density where the sugar solution has not yet mixed completely.

You do have the option to dose the sugar into the bottles individually, but that might be tedious for some. I feel it's tedious. Others don't. So find out what is or isn't for you. I'd also use a sugar solution. I'd think that fine sugar with beer running into the bottles would just be nucleation points for CO2 and the beer would foam excessively. Maybe not. Maybe the foaming drives out the O2 in the head space.

If you happen to have a FV that lets you dump all the trub, then you can add your priming sugar to the FV and bottle directly from it.