Newbie already made a mistake?

[Bagarge]

Hey guys, new here and good to be here!
Just started my first brew kit on an american IPA.

My question is, i foolishly added the boiling water to the malt and for some reason i didnt add cold water after mixing and adding the sugar… i let it cool down before adding the rest of the water.

Will this effect any of my beer?
Thanks guys!

 

[hotbeer]

Since you said malt, many of us are going to assume this a a all-grain beer that you have to mash. Or did you use malt as short for malt extract? Typically we refer to that as just extract.

You'll have beer. So just go do all the other stuff. Keep notes. When it's all over and done with, you'll find out if you have good beer or not.

 

[Bagarge]

Since you said malt, many of us are going to assume this a a all-grain beer that you have to mash. Or did you use malt as short for malt extract? Typically we refer to that as just extract.

Extract, yes sorry my head is swimming with beer making videos.
Its malt extract

 

[mac_1103]

i foolishly added the boiling water to the malt and for some reason i didnt add cold water after mixing and adding the sugar

Sorry, but I'm not sure I follow. What kit did you use and what exactly did you do that deviated from the kit instructions?

 

[Bagarge]

Sorry, but I'm not sure I follow. What kit did you use and what exactly did you do that deviated from the kit instructions?

So it is a youngs brew american ipa kit.

The instructions were to empty the malt extract into the vessel and add 3 litres of boiling water. Stir to dissolve and add the brewing sugar and dissolve. Then top up with cold water to 23litres.

Somehow i ended up at the part it says to wait until below 25degrees before adding the yeast… so i waited.

It was a good hour before I realised i should have added the cold water straight after. So it sat there until it was cool before i added the cold water and the yeast.

 

[hotbeer]

I think your only concern might be if the water you added after the wort cooled is sanitary enough not to have any wild yeast or bacteria in it that might infect your beer and make it taste yeech.

If it was bottled water or distilled water that you added straight from it's original container, then probably less of a risk.

But what's done is done. It isn't worth worrying about. It's just a sanitation risk since you added the water when the wort cooled. It stands a better chance of being a decent beer than it does a infected beer that will taste sour or like nothing you ever want in your mouth again.

 

[mac_1103]

Sounds like a pre-hopped extract kit. The extra hour probably didn't hurt it, especially if it was covered.

 

[Bagarge]

I think your only concern might be if the water you added after the wort cooled is sanitary enough not to have any wild yeast or bacteria in it that might infect your beer and make it taste yeech.

Yes that would make sense. It is spring water from a mountain source

 

[Bagarge]

Sounds like a pre-hopped extract kit. The extra hour probably didn't hurt it, especially if it was covered.

Yes it was covered. Just feel very silly not being able to follow basic instructions…

 

[Bagarge]

Yes it was covered. Just feel very silly not being able to follow basic instructions…

Also i does say to add the hop pellets towards the end of the fermentation

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

You may want to get your water tested to see if there are any mineral problems.

 

[passedpawn]

Extract, yes sorry my head is swimming with beer making videos.
Its malt extract

No worries. Let it cool, add yeast, let it ferment for a couple of weeks, then bottle. Don't open and test every day, though I'm sure you'll be tempted.

Let us know how it turned out.

 

[passedpawn]

You may want to get your water tested to see if there are any mineral problems.

dude, not in beginners brewing

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

dude, not in beginners brewing

Dude, yes - especially in the Beginners Beer Brewing Forum.

Makers of dry/liquid malt extract (professionally) make a wort, then vacuum evaporate it - taking just the water out.

So a "best practice" when brewing with dry/liquid malt extract is to add just the water (no minerals or a known limited amount of minerals /2/) back.

Palmer, in How to Brew, 4e, chapter 1 appears to have put a lot of thought into "poka-yoking" /1/ a brew day process. Water that is known to have "no" or "low" mineral content is part of that process.

If the water does not have a known mineral content ("spring water" is not water with a known mineral content), @Clint Yeastwood offers sound advice.

---

/1/ Poka-yoke is a Japanese term that means "mistake-proofing" or "error prevention".

/2/ there may be an interesting discussion regarding minerals and ppm: for Na, S04, and Cl, what is the threshold that matters? Can one detect a 10 ppm difference? 50? 500?

 

[passedpawn]

I guess we'll have to disagree on how much detail you throw at a new brewer on his first extract brew.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

how much detail you throw at a new brewer on [their] first extract brew

Knowing the mineral content of the water used for brewing isn't "detailed".

In 2023, it comes down to two choices:

1. get the water tested (@Clint Yeastwood suggested this and its @BrewnWKopperKat approved)
2. use RO/distilled water (also @BrewnWKopperKat approved )

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I got all excited. What can I tell you?

 

[Bagarge]

Thanks guys! Very speedy replies and full of useful knowledge.
I am going to like it here
Will let you all know how it turns out.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Typically we refer to that as just extract.

FWIW, "extract" is a word that has a number of uses in brewing. For example:

 

[hotbeer]

FWIW, "extract" is a word that has a number of uses in brewing. For example:

View attachment 840004

I think that deserves a duh!


Didn't ever say it wasn't used for other purposes or in other ways. It's all about the context of how the word is used.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Referring back to 'Typically we refer to that as just extract.':

One could help establish the context by using "DME", "LME", or "hopped extract" rather than "extract"

 

[hotbeer]

Referring back to 'Typically we refer to that as just extract.':

One could help establish the context by using "DME", "LME", or "hopped extract" rather than "extract"

Well similar to @passedpawn , I don't want to try and make the OP take a sip of water from a fire hose.

All those things can come further on down the road as they get more experiences behind them.

 

[IslandLizard]

It is spring water from a mountain source

Welcome to our forums!
Is that water you "tapped" yourself, at an open well or spring? Or big bottles or jugs you bought, marked "spring water?"
In the latter case, you can ask the supplier for a mineral analysis.

In the former case (self tapped), if you have a TDS meter (they're about $10-15) you can get a decent idea of the total mineral content is, but not the kind of minerals. Water mineral tests are around $40, but limited or even useless when water composition changes with the seasons, or rainfall/snow amounts, etc.

As was mentioned before, using soft water (low mineral content) is recommended for extract brewing.

Just feel very silly not being able to follow basic instructions…

Many instructions are not always that clear, or miss essential details. You'll get better with each brew.
Keep detailed notes, and review before starting a new batch.

 

[MikeinOhio]

I’m chiming in here a bit late, but as to your original question, if your water tastes good, and it doesn’t get anyone sick, then you really should have nothing to worry about.
The other tips here will help your next beer taste even better.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

if your water tastes good, and it doesn’t get anyone sick, then you really should have nothing to worry about.

It's likely that most home brewers have water from a single source that has a low mineral content and doesn't have seasonal variation. If necessary, remove chlorine / chloramines and one is likely "good to go" for either good light colored beers or good dark colored beers (but probably not both without simple adjustments).

But if the beer doesn't turn out well, one of the first things one likely needs to do is understand the source water mineral content.

 

[Bagarge]

Welcome to our forums!
Is that water you "tapped" yourself, at an open well or spring? Or big bottles or jugs you bought, marked "spring water?"
In the latter case, you can ask the supplier for a mineral analysis.

In the former case (self tapped), if you have a TDS meter (they're about $10-15) you can get a decent idea of the total mineral content is, but not the kind of minerals. Water mineral tests are around $40, but limited or even useless when water composition changes with the seasons, or rainfall/snow amounts, etc.

As was mentioned before, using soft water (low mineral content) is recommended for extract brewing.


Many instructions are not always that clear, or miss essential details. You'll get better with each brew.
Keep detailed notes, and review before starting a new batch.

The water is from a mountain cistern that flows into a constant running spring fountain.

It is tested regularly and is considered the best water around. Everyone drinks it and people even travel to fill up there.

 

[Stikius]

I think what people are trying to say is that spring water can contain a lot of minerals that are good for everyday drinking (health + taste), but could result in off flavors when using DME (since the DME already contain those minerals). So what you should aim for is to have as clean water as possible (as close to distilled as you can get).

That being said, the beer won't turn bad just because your water contain minerals. It will, as @MikeinOhio mentioned, only be somewhat better if the water is cleaner. For a first time brew kit I would not recommend to do a water analysis or build a chemistry lab at home since the beer will still be good and you can start improving processes if you think it's fun to brew and decide to keep doing it.
If it's the first time ever you cook dinner you wouldn't go full blown Heston Blumenthal, right? Same goes for beer if you ask me...

 

[IslandLizard]

I saw from your member profile you're located in Portugal.

The water is from a mountain cistern that flows into a constant running spring fountain.

It is tested regularly and is considered the best water around. Everyone drinks it and people even travel to fill up there.

Water that's best for drinking is usually not best for brewing. When brewing lighter color beers we like to use soft water. IOW, having low mineral content.
For many dark beers a higher mineral content is usually fine or acceptable.

Would be nice to have an idea how much various minerals it contains. And how much it fluctuates, if any.
[EDIT] You said that water is regularly tested by someone? You may want to talk to that person, they may know the mineral content and such.
Otherwise, is there a local lab, or a school with a chemistry lab and chem teacher, you can get friendly with?

As @Stikius said, above, for the first brew (or the first few) you can get away with what you have.
Now if you want to get more serious about brewing, you'd like to know.

 

[Bagarge]

I saw from your member profile you're located in Portugal.


Water that's best for drinking is usually not best for brewing. When brewing lighter color beers we like to use soft water. IOW, having low mineral content.
For many dark beers a higher mineral content is usually fine or acceptable.

Would be nice to have an idea how much various minerals it contains. And how much it fluctuates, if any.
[EDIT] You said that water is regularly tested by someone? You may want to talk to that person, they may know the mineral content and such.
Otherwise, is there a local lab, or a school with a chemistry lab and chem teacher, you can get friendly with?

As @Stikius said, above, for the first brew (or the first few) you can get away with what you have.
Now if you want to get more serious about brewing, you'd like to know.

Ok makes alot of sense. There are results of the water testing available i will try to find them at some point.

I want to get serious about brewing, i am using this easy kit as a starter as it was a gift but i plan to jump straight into BIAB as soon as funds allow.

 

[IslandLizard]

I want to get serious about brewing

Then you also want to get serious about the water you use for brewing.

Here's a link to an article written by AJ deLange, one of our very helpful contributors on water chemistry and other things brewing:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/
That article provides you with the basics of what to look for in good brewing water and how to make it better (more suitable) for the style of beer you're brewing.

i plan to jump straight into BIAB as soon as funds allow.

The Bru'n Water website contains a spreadsheet download (the free version is all you need) and a very informative FAQ link on how to use the spreadsheet. A must read!
The spreadsheet is for water chemistry calculations and predicting mash (and sparge water) pH.
https://www.brunwater.com/

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If it's the first time ever you cook dinner you wouldn't go full blown Heston Blumenthal, right? Same goes for beer if you ask me...

"ever" and "full blown" suggest the only choices are two (somewhat) extreme starting points.

For a 3rd starting point, consider chapter 1 of How to Brew, 4th edition (2017). One may find that there are a number of easy to implement techniques (not yet part of 'forum wisdom' in 2023) that prevent a number of situations that cause 'bad beer' to be made.

 

[Stikius]

I think we need to agree to disagree on this. My point is, for a first brew, if the water tastes and smells ok it will most likely produce an ok beer as well. Probably not the best beer in the world (who knows?), but still drinkable and even enjoyable. It will not taste exactly as the author of the recipe intended, but still good enough for a first beer.
I don't believe my grandmother had access to Italian San Marzano tomatoes harvested the third week of August in the 1920's, but she could (most likely, I wasn't around to taste it) still cook a pretty decent tomato soup with local Swedish grown tomatoes.

I do however fully agree with you, that with total control over the main ingredient in beer (or in tomato soup for that matter) you will get a better end result (or at least a result you have better control over). If I would have aimed for a perfect beer the first time I brewed I would have been really disappointed (no matter how prefect the water I used was) and never brewed again though.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Some where between "doing nothing" and "total control" / "perfect", there is chapter 8 of How to Brew, 4th edition - which talks about adjusting the flavor of extract based recipes using brewing salts and measuring spoons.

 

[mac_1103]

OP is brewing an extract kt. As has been mentioned, ideal water for extract brewing is distilled or RO (basically zero minerals) because the extract already has minerals in it from the water it was made with. However, lots of people make perfectly fine extract brews with whatever water they have available, presumably because the mineral content of their water is low enough that it doesn't matter. What he should do about his water in the future depends on a lot of things that we don't know, including how this first beer turns out.

 

[Bagarge]

Quick update.

Shes bubbling away and it has been 13 days now at a steady temp between 20-22 degrees C.

I just took a gravity reading (totally sterilised of course) and it was reading about 26 on the meter.

The instructions said it wasnt important to take a reading at the start of the brew, which i wish i did.

It says to wait until the S.G is 1.010 or below before i add the hops. As i am very new to this does this just mean that there are alot more sugars to be converted into alcohol yet?

I had a taste and to be fair it was delicious and tasted exactly like an ale but a bit on the sweet side.

Thanks for any input

 

[Stikius]

Yes, if it reads 1.026 you still have a lot of sugar in there. You should wait until you get down close to 1.010 if that what the recipe calls for, or at least have a stable value for a few days in a row. But is should definitely come a lot closer to 1.010.

Also, even if the bubbling stops don't rush to bottling/kegging. The yeast will still be doing some magic even when you don't see it.

 

[RM-MN]

Quick update.

Shes bubbling away and it has been 13 days now at a steady temp between 20-22 degrees C.

I just took a gravity reading (totally sterilised of course) and it was reading about 26 on the meter.

The instructions said it wasnt important to take a reading at the start of the brew, which i wish i did.

It says to wait until the S.G is 1.010 or below before i add the hops. As i am very new to this does this just mean that there are alot more sugars to be converted into alcohol yet?

I had a taste and to be fair it was delicious and tasted exactly like an ale but a bit on the sweet side.

Thanks for any input

Since this was an extract kit, the kit should give you the expected OG. It will be very close to that.
The yeast only produce CO2 for the first 2-3 days. After that the bubbles are from excess CO2 coming out of suspension in the beer as it will be supersaturated.
When you say reading of 26 on the meter, what meter are you looking at? If it is a refractometer there needs to be a correction factor as the reading will be skewed by the alcohol in the system. At day 13 I would be surprised if your beer isn't at final gravity.
When you add your dry hops, open the fermenter and dump the hops in, opening it as little as possible and closing it as quickly as you can. Oxygen is the bane of hop aroma. Letting in the least you can is your goal.

 

[Bagarge]

Since this was an extract kit, the kit should give you the expected OG. It will be very close to that.
The yeast only produce CO2 for the first 2-3 days. After that the bubbles are from excess CO2 coming out of suspension in the beer as it will be supersaturated.
When you say reading of 26 on the meter, what meter are you looking at? If it is a refractometer there needs to be a correction factor as the reading will be skewed by the alcohol in the system. At day 13 I would be surprised if your beer isn't at final gravity.
When you add your dry hops, open the fermenter and dump the hops in, opening it as little as possible and closing it as quickly as you can. Oxygen is the bane of hop aroma. Letting in the least you can is your goal.

I am using a floating hydrometer that i got with the kit.
Yes i shoud have specified, it reads 1.026 but on this it just says 26. I assume that is 1.026.
The kit says it should be 1.010 at about day 15 but its been 13 days. I will take another reading at day 15 to observe.
Thanks for the tips on adding the hops

 

[mac_1103]

Many (most?) hydrometers have more than one scale. Make sure you're reading the right one.

 

[mac_1103]

OTOH, if you were reading the Brix scale by mistake then you'd really have a problem.