'New' Lallemand Yeasts - New England and Kolsch

[rtstrider]

@rtstrider I'm getting the same clove-y thing I think with mine. I pitched 2 packs of Koln in 5 gallons of 1.050 OG. The lag was around 36 hours. Fermented a week at 58 then let rise naturally to 65 where I've had it for another week. It's still only down to 1.016 (mash was 2 hours at 148 specifically to get attenuation) and the taste/smell is just not good. Strong clove type flavor and maybe some sulfur and/or acetaldehyde. Probably going to give it another week then cold crash and see what happens, but not hopeful based on where it's currently at.

I'll say this much. I tasted the Koln kolsch slurry and starter when this was banked up. The pack that was banked up and froze was sent to me directly from Lallemand. It didn't have the clove hint to it. It may not be a bad idea to reach out to Lallemand and let them know when/where you purchased this. I'm beginning to think there may be, or have been, some QA issues with this new strain. I do plan on building up the frozen slurry in the next few months and brewing a simple Kolsch with it. If I read the numbers right the step up SHOULD get in the 400-450 billion yeast cells range at pitch. This is my hail mary. I refuse to take defeat lightly lol

 

[ba-brewer]

I ended up dumping my olive tasting beer, dry hopping did not mask it.

 

[rtstrider]

Coming back to this. I ended up biting on the Calypso hops sale on Morebeer a month or so ago. Never used Calypso. Just pulled out a frozen tube on Koln yeast and am stepping it up. Decided to use grains that were on hand. Here’s the recipe I’m going with

Title: Calypso Koln Pale Ale

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.046
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.059
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.87%
IBU (tinseth): 42.47
SRM (morey): 5.73
Mash pH: 5.88

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - Brewers Malt 2-Row (96%)
0.5 lb - Caramunich Type 1 (4%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: First Wort, IBU: 12.8
0.5 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 11.54
1 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.28
1 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Hop Stand for 15 min, IBU: 8.85
3 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 4.69 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

YEAST:
Lallemand - LALBREW® KÖLN KÖLSCH KOLSCH

 

[rtstrider]

Well the Koln starter tore through the first step up. Going from 150ml 1.020 wort to 1.5L 1.020 wort this evening. Really curious to see how it reacts. So far its just as fast as the other starters.

 

[wepeeler]

If you haven’t used the Kolschbier yeast from East Coast Yeast yet and you like to brew Kolsch I’d highly highly recommend it.

More character than 029 but similar flocculation.

I like 2565 but it’s so damn powdery. I do lager Kolsch for 3-4 weeks but it still won’t drop brilliant sometimes.

I’ve used everything under the sun for Kolsch, 2565, 2575, 1007, 003, 011, 029, Gigayeast Kolsch, Lallemand, English yeasts at 54, etc. The ECY strain is a great blend of character and ease of use.

Interesting. I personally didn't care for 029 for my Kolsch. Loved Imperial Dieter but couldn't get consistent results. Probably more my own fault than the yeast's though. Went back to 2565, and I love it. Was fermenting 65ish, but this last batch fermented at 62. Raised to 65 for D Rest, but I don't ever get a hint of diacetyl with 2565. Hoping the cooler temps will be a touch cleaner. On a 3rd generation and it's getting harder to clarify. Only been in the keg for 6 days, so hopefully biofine will start to do the trick. Entering it into a comp in 3 weeks.

 

[rtstrider]

Interesting. I personally didn't care for 029 for my Kolsch. Loved Imperial Dieter but couldn't get consistent results. Probably more my own fault than the yeast's though. Went back to 2565, and I love it. Was fermenting 65ish, but this last batch fermented at 62. Raised to 65 for D Rest, but I don't ever get a hint of diacetyl with 2565. Hoping the cooler temps will be a touch cleaner. On a 3rd generation and it's getting harder to clarify. Only been in the keg for 6 days, so hopefully biofine will start to do the trick. Entering it into a comp in 3 weeks.

How did wlp029 compare to Imperial Dieter? I've heard it's the same strain. What is your experiences?

 

[wepeeler]

How did wlp029 compare to Imperial Dieter? I've heard it's the same strain. What is your experiences?

100% not the same strain. 029 makes a fuller, sweeter beer, in my experience. Dieter was my go to for about my first 10 batches, but for some reason, I couldn't make a consistent product. One time it would be super crisp, other times flabby. Mashed the same, pitched the same. Literally could not figure it out, so I switched yeasts.

 

[rtstrider]

100% not the same strain. 029 makes a fuller, sweeter beer, in my experience. Dieter was my go to for about my first 10 batches, but for some reason, I couldn't make a consistent product. One time it would be super crisp, other times flabby. Mashed the same, pitched the same. Literally could not figure it out, so I switched yeasts.

Thanks for that info! Now I'll have to order wlp029 and do a comparison!

 

[rtstrider]

Well it’s been 48 hours and the starter has shown no activity or movement in gravity. This is been typical of the Koln strain though. It take a good 3-4 days to get things moving, per step, when on the stir plate. Giving this another 2 days. If it doesn’t move the needle I’m moving on from giving this strain a shot. It’s way too slow to be of any use in my brewery as of now. Hoping it changes my mind.

 

[rtstrider]

72 hours and we finally have lift off on the second step! Hoping this will be ready for the 2L 1.040 step by tomorrow morning. On all other yeasts that final step is the quickest. Hoping to be brewing by Sunday. If not it'll get figured out

 

[doogster]

I used the LalBrew New England on a recent Tropical Pale Ale. Only pitched one packet, so a little shy of what the pitch rate should have been. It took over 48 hours for the gravity to start dropping. Started at 1.055, stopped at 1.017 (expected a bit drier finish). The beer itself turned out fine. Might consider switching over to one of the other guys next time for a comparison.

 

[rtstrider]

Well the 1.5L 1.020 step finished out this evening. Topped this up to 2L (give or take a few) 1.040. Right at 1 hour since step up we have a krausen cone! Really hoping this is done by tomorrow evening so brew day can happen Saturday! Either way maybe just maybe a stepped starter from the frozen yeast bank is what the Dr ordered with Koln.

I’ll say this much. The strain seems to be incredibly hardy and dog slow! This should in theory be in the range of 400 billion cells come pitching time. That’s what the brewersfriend calculator says anyways. The only reason I’m using this strain is because of the “bio transformation” traits. Not sure what if any difference this will make with Calypso. Either way I’ll will keep this updated!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Not sure what if any difference this will make with Calypso. Either way I’ll will keep this updated!

If you're using Calypso you may find this interesting :
https://www.hopsteiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/BRI_Citra_Simcoe_Report_17.pdf

 

[rtstrider]

Checked the stir plate this morning and now we're really cooking! Hoping this starter is done by the evening. Really wanting to brew tomorrow!

 

[rtstrider]

Pitched the decanted 2L 1.040 starter of Koln about 3 hours ago. There’s already activity! So now I’m going to test this on a kolsch eventually. Outside of doing a stepped starter from a frozen 15ml tube, or getting a hefty pitch from a previous brew, I wouldn’t recommend this strain. It seems that something with the drying process puts this to sleep big time. Once it goes liquid it performs just fine! I know this totally defeats the purpose of dry strains but so does 3 packs of dry yeast for a normal gravity 5 gallon batch. I’ll keep posting my experiences in hopes it helps others!

 

[rtstrider]

17 hours post pitch with Koln. Fermenting at 60f

 

[wepeeler]

Good luck man!

Sooooo, I entered my latest Kolsch into a local comp and got 2nd!! Wyeast 2565. Literally my first medal

 

[Noob_Brewer]

congrats @wepeeler ! haven't entered my beers in anything yet but hopefully you also got solid feedback too.

 

[wepeeler]

congrats @wepeeler ! haven't entered my beers in anything yet but hopefully you also got solid feedback too.

Thanks man! I did get really good feedback. Funny thing is the last batch of this particular Kolsch was better IMO. I shared it with one of the brewers at New England Brewing Co (NEBCO), and he told me to enter it. So I brewed another batch, and here we are! He ended up judging it, because as he handed out the prizes, he told me, "I feel like I tasted this one before". I said that's because you have

 

[wepeeler]

Picking up Imperial Dieter and Safale K-97 tonight. Going to brew Dieter this Thursday, so I'll let you know how I make out vs Wyeast 2565. Hoping for a return to glory lol.

 

[rtstrider]

Picking up Imperial Dieter and Safale K-97 tonight. Going to brew Dieter this Thursday, so I'll let you know how I make out vs Wyeast 2565. Hoping for a return to glory lol.

I prefer Dieter over 2565 (Paffgen) by a large margin. It clears faster and is cleaner. Now that strain can be tart if left in suspension so I would recommend fermenting around 60f for 72 hours or so then let free rise to 68f to finish/clean up. The main thing with this strain is fining/cold conditioning after fermentation. If you can give it a few weeks and fine with gelatin that will help clean up the flavors/appearance. This strain clears fast but it takes a bit of cold conditioning to get the tartness out. It's been rumored this is Imperials version of wlp029 (Fruh). I have not done a side by side so I cannot comment on the similarities or differences. I will try to do so before the end of the year if possible. However, being in FL it really limits how often yeast can be shipped due to hot temps outside. I'll be getting the last few yeast strains shipped early/mid May and will have to baby those before banking them up in the freezer. After that though a brewery is opening up within walking distance from my house. Owner said they can order whatever strain I want so will most likely be using that route going forward.

K-97 is definitely on the to do list and Koln is on the to do list for a proper kolsch now. Koln is pretty darn particular if not treated right in VERY specific conditions. It does bank nicely though. Oh and update! The Calpyso SMASH was moved to secondary only to free up a fermenter. The yeast has mostly dropped out of suspension now. Waiting for a keg to open up and hopefully will have this at least kegged in a week or two.

 

[wepeeler]

I prefer Dieter over 2565 (Paffgen) by a large margin. It clears faster and is cleaner. Now that strain can be tart if left in suspension so I would recommend fermenting around 60f for 72 hours or so then let free rise to 68f to finish/clean up. The main thing with this strain is fining/cold conditioning after fermentation. If you can give it a few weeks and fine with gelatin that will help clean up the flavors/appearance. This strain clears fast but it takes a bit of cold conditioning to get the tartness out. It's been rumored this is Imperials version of wlp029 (Fruh). I have not done a side by side so I cannot comment on the similarities or differences. I will try to do so before the end of the year if possible. However, being in FL it really limits how often yeast can be shipped due to hot temps outside. I'll be getting the last few yeast strains shipped early/mid May and will have to baby those before banking them up in the freezer. After that though a brewery is opening up within walking distance from my house. Owner said they can order whatever strain I want so will most likely be using that route going forward.

K-97 is definitely on the to do list and Koln is on the to do list for a proper kolsch now. Koln is pretty darn particular if not treated right in VERY specific conditions. It does bank nicely though. Oh and update! The Calpyso SMASH was moved to secondary only to free up a fermenter. The yeast has mostly dropped out of suspension now. Waiting for a keg to open up and hopefully will have this at least kegged in a week or two.

I've used Dieter quite a bit early on for my Kolsch, but since moved away from it after not getting consistent results. They were my favorite batches, but I just couldn't duplicate them. I think it was more my process than anything, so I'm trying it again. Thinking of doing a double batch - Dieter in 1, K97 in the other. I just don't need 10 gallons of beer on tap at the moment lol. We'll see...

I had decent luck with WL029, but it wasn't the cleanest imo. 2565 was a better attenuator, and I love the balance between the malt and hops. Just not 100% fan of the aroma. It's slightly floral, but I get a bit of earthiness I wish wasn't there. ExBEERiment time!!

 

[rtstrider]

I've used Dieter quite a bit early on for my Kolsch, but since moved away from it after not getting consistent results. They were my favorite batches, but I just couldn't duplicate them. I think it was more my process than anything, so I'm trying it again. Thinking of doing a double batch - Dieter in 1, K97 in the other. I just don't need 10 gallons of beer on tap at the moment lol. We'll see...

I had decent luck with WL029, but it wasn't the cleanest imo. 2565 was a better attenuator, and I love the balance between the malt and hops. Just not 100% fan of the aroma. It's slightly floral, but I get a bit of earthiness I wish wasn't there. ExBEERiment time!!

What's your experience with WLP029 compared to G03? I brewed a WLP029 batch moons ago but ran into issues with chloramines so that was a dumper. So far out of G03, 2565, and 1007 my favorite would be 1007. It's an altbier yeast but it's just so clean. It's dog slow though and takes a bit of cold conditioning to clear. The results are always worth the wait though

 

[wepeeler]

WL029 was too sweet for me. Used it a few times in Kolsch and even tried for Altbier. Didn't like 1007 at all. People rave about it, but I've never had good luck. Tasted musty and took ages to clear. G03 was by far my favorite, until it wasn't. Hoping to find my groove again with G03.

 

[rtstrider]

Just kegged the Koln batch. The warm uncarbonated sample was malt forward. The calypso hop was meh. All I got was bitterness. Going to see how some cold conditioning and keg hopping treats this. I do think Koln would make a very good malty pale ale yeast. The beer was semi clear going into the keg at room temp. Curious to see how it does with some gelatin finings

 

[wepeeler]

Just kegged the Koln batch. The warm uncarbonated sample was malt forward. The calypso hop was meh. All I got was bitterness. Going to see how some cold conditioning and keg hopping treats this. I do think Koln would make a very good malty pale ale yeast. The beer was semi clear going into the keg at room temp. Curious to see how it does with some gelatin finings

You definitely don't want your Kolsch to be malt forward! Calypso just isn't the right hops for the style. Have to go noble.

Just finished brewing the Dieter Kolsch. 1.053 OG. Wanted 1.048. I'll let you know in a few weeks!

 

[rtstrider]

You definitely don't want your Kolsch to be malt forward! Calypso just isn't the right hops for the style. Have to go noble.

Just finished brewing the Dieter Kolsch. 1.053 OG. Wanted 1.048. I'll let you know in a few weeks!

Hoping to put in a yeast order this Friday with wlp029. I've got a back to back brew day lined up next weekend. Due to the temps outside I'll need to bank the yeast up for the freezer as soon as it comes in the mail. Have a few strains that'll be banked up back to back to back and such. Getting wlp400 (for a wedding brew in late July), wlp940, wlp029, and wlp810 (for a Christmas brew). So will have a good bit of yeast to bring back to life and bank up For the wlp029 I was going to give Brulosophers Best Blonde Ale a shot. Added gelatin to the Calypso smash today. Going to wait until next weekend to tap the keg. The initial warm taste was all over the place. Needs cold conditioning time

 

[wepeeler]

Hoping to put in a yeast order this Friday with wlp029. I've got a back to back brew day lined up next weekend. Due to the temps outside I'll need to bank the yeast up for the freezer as soon as it comes in the mail. Have a few strains that'll be banked up back to back to back and such. Getting wlp400 (for a wedding brew in late July), wlp940, wlp029, and wlp810 (for a Christmas brew). So will have a good bit of yeast to bring back to life and bank up For the wlp029 I was going to give Brulosophers Best Blonde Ale a shot. Added gelatin to the Calypso smash today. Going to wait until next weekend to tap the keg. The initial warm taste was all over the place. Needs cold conditioning time

The Dieter fermented out to 1.010. Have high hopes for this bad boy.

Good luck with the WL029. I couldn't get it to do what I needed it to do, but that's probably more me than the yeast.

K-97 batch brewing on Friday, so I'll be able to sample the Dieter and K-97 side by side in a few weeks. Brewed exactly 1 week apart.

 

[wepeeler]

K-97 Kolsch brew day went off without a hitch. Finished around 1:30pm, and she's currently bubbling away at 65F. 1 pack of K-97 pitched dry. OG 1.050. I'll be able to sample this and the Dieter side by side in a few weeks, which is very exciting, and should be very helpful tweaking going forward.

So far my favorite is 2565, but I need to get more floral out of it.

 

[wepeeler]

Kegged the Dieter Kolsch on Thursday, fined with Biofine Clear, and it's almost carbed up. The malt backbone is insane. Definitely one of my favorite malt flavors in a kolsch. It's a touch sweet, which reminds me of WLP029. But it's cleared up almost brilliantly in a few days in the keg. Hoping to let it sit (not sample it everyday), and try it side by side with the K-97 in a week or so. I'm VERY happy so far, but so far I do prefer the Wyeast 2565.