Make IPA Clear Again

[wepeeler]

A couple of years ago I won Best of Show at a local comp. Part of the 'win' was the opportunity to brew at a local upscale brewery/restaurant.

On the evening the beer was tapped, the restaurant owner and head brewmaster asked me to brief all the servers and bar staff about my beer, so they could tell patrons what they could expect, just like telling customers about a chef's special offerings on the menu. My beer got a lot of positive reviews from both the patrons and the staff, who were able to give the customers an accurate description of what was on tap.

Knowledge is power in the hands of the consumer, and also results in bigger tips for the wait staff.

Congrats! And I agree 100%. Knowledgeable wait staff goes a long way. And improves your chance of getting a beer you really want!

 

[wepeeler]

Here is the question...does hazy, murky beer taste better than crystal clear, brilliant hyper clear beer? Which of these is prettier?

Before you answer, remember that we taste with our eyes first.

You have to compare apples to apples. A hazy East Coast ipa is not a brilliantly clear West Coast ipa. They also don't claim to be.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

You have to compare apples to apples. A hazy East Coast ipa is not a brilliantly clear West Coast ipa. They also don't claim to be.

Ok, let's compare beer-to-beer.
Does a hazy/murky beer taste better than a clear beer?

Just like a good steak, you taste with your eyes first. As I'm in the crowd that believes hazy beer is a flaw, we will pick the clear beer every time.

 

[day_trippr]

They both have their assets.
And a proper neipa looks pretty tasty to my eyes...

Cheers!

 

[Nagorg]

Which of these is prettier?

I always find myself wanting to drink sludge water.

 

[wepeeler]

Ok, let's compare beer-to-beer.
Does a hazy/murky beer taste better than a clear beer?

Just like a good steak, you taste with your eyes first. As I'm in the crowd that believes hazy beer is a flaw, we will pick the clear beer every time.

Again, you need to compare apples to apples. A hazy neipa tastes better than a clear neipa. You can't compare it to a WC IPA. When the haze drops, it takes with it a lot of the juiciness and mouthfeel.

Now a hazy Pils vs a clear Pils is a better comparison. Obviously you want a Pils to be brilliantly clear. It's part of the style guidelines, just like haze is acceptable in the sub category of 21C: Hazy IPA. It's literally in the description. "Hazy, often opaque..."

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Again, you need to compare apples to apples. A hazy neipa tastes better than a clear neipa. You can't compare it to a WC IPA. When the haze drops, it takes with it a lot of the juiciness and mouthfeel.

Now a hazy Pils vs a clear Pils is a better comparison. Obviously you want a Pils to be brilliantly clear. It's part of the style guidelines, just like haze is acceptable in the sub category of 21C: Hazy IPA. It's literally in the description. "Hazy, often opaque..."

Good to know. I'm just not a fan of haze. Glad some people like hazy / murky / cloudy beverages. I'm not in that camp, just a personal problem.

When tasting two Pale Premium Czech Lagers, one hazy, one clear, the clear beer was the choice. It tasted cleaner, more crisp, less hoppy. The hazy beer has cleared out now, being brilliant.

If God had wanted beers to be hazy, Pilsner Urquell would have had hazy beer.

 

[wepeeler]

Good to know. I'm just not a fan of haze. Glad some people like hazy / murky / cloudy beverages. I'm not in that camp, just a personal problem.

When tasting two Pale Premium Czech Lagers, one hazy, one clear, the clear beer was the choice. It tasted cleaner, more crisp, less hoppy. The hazy beer has cleared out now, being brilliant.

If God had wanted beers to be hazy, Pilsner Urquell would have had hazy beer.

Well I understand that the words "hazy" and "murky" seem similar when describing something, but not in beer. Even the BJCP description says 21C can be hazy, but not murky. I've seen a ton of hazies turn brown-ish because of oxidation, and that's what I'm assuming murky is, as a descriptor. But a nice fresh hazy neipa is beautiful. Especially in sunlight. It practically glows!

In your case of the lagers, the hazy lager needed conditioning to drop out unwanted particles. That results in a brilliant, crisp beer. And is very indicative of the style. Just like the haze adds to the overall experience of a well-crafted neipa. The same unwanted particles are a flaw in a lager.

Also, light beers, such as lagers, typically use lower protein grists than neipa and the lager yeasts do not react the same way to the extra hops in a neipa. Supposedly the haze is stabilized by yeast and hop (and grain protein) interaction. There is so much more of all of that in a neipa vs a lager (or even alight ale ie Golden ale)

I think we're "arguing" the same idea, just from different angles.

 

[bwible]

My problem is haze has always been considered a flaw, often the result of poor brewing habits.
Hazy beer is why they used stone mugs for beer drinking two hundred years ago.
When the breweries started making light pilsners, that were clear, and actually pretty to look at, clear drinking glasses became popular for the light lagers.

Or pewter mugs

 

[YeastFeast]

Ok, let's compare beer-to-beer.
Does a hazy/murky beer taste better than a clear beer?

A Hazy IPA tastes better than a clear IPA most of the time in my opinion.
I would argue that if you walked into random bars, restaurants, breweries and did taste tests with 10 people at each, 8/9 of 10 people would pick the Hazy as the better tasting beer.

 

[Beermeister32]

Some breweries have admitted to adding flour to get the haze:

http://beergraphs.com/bg/973-two-brewers-admit-their-methods-for-haze/
I prefer a crystal clear beer..!

 

[Beermeister32]

Here is the question...does hazy, murky beer taste better than crystal clear, brilliant hyper clear beer? Which of these is prettier?

^^^Exactly!

 

[YeastFeast]

Some breweries have admitted to adding flour to get the haze:

http://beergraphs.com/bg/973-two-brewers-admit-their-methods-for-haze/

How pathetic! I could care less about haze (or amount of) as long as it has no bitterness, proper hop aroma & mouthfeel and taste like what a hazy IPA is supposed to taste like.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

How pathetic! I could care less about haze (or amount of) as long as it has no bitterness, proper hop aroma & mouthfeel and taste like what a hazy IPA is supposed to taste like.

I would like to see a double blind taste test, Hazed IPA vs Clear IPA. These would need to be the same beers.

 

[Beermeister32]

Flour in beer. Gives a whole new meaning to the term “liquid bread!”

 

[TBA]

I like orange juice more than apple juice. I guess that’s why I like hazy NEIPAs more than clear beers. Lol

 

[NeoBrew]

A Hazy IPA tastes better than a clear IPA most of the time in my opinion.
I would argue that if you walked into random bars, restaurants, breweries and did taste tests with 10 people at each, 8/9 of 10 people would pick the Hazy as the better tasting beer.

This isn't a popularity contest. It is about not selling everything with the label IPA so that consumers know what they are going to get.

Some of us love a West Coast IPA.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

This isn't a popularity contest. It is about not selling everything with the label IPA so that consumers know what they are going to get.

Some of us love a West Coast IPA.

And some of us do not like any IPA. West Coast, East Coast, Midwest...

 

[Bassman2003]

Then why post on an IPA thread? Seems like a search for conflict or to demonstrate who is better in one's eyes...

 

[renstyle]

2022, when attempts to find a decent clear (WC is my fave) IPA at local stores becomes a scavenger hunt.

I think they hide most of them with all of the Brown and Mild ales!

 

[ghpeel]

I quit brewing around 2016-2017, and was burnt out on beer for a few years. Re-discovered my love of good lager in that phase and returned to the beer scene recently only to find the hawt new thing was ... CLOUDY IPA?!? The inmates are running the asylum! I agree that it seems like a real convenient way for breweries to sell imperfect/green beers by describing them as 'intentionally' cloudy.

 

[Brewdog80]

Hazy equals flawed in an IPA. Call it like I see it. Tastier? Not. Wheat beers are hazy, but never an IPA. Just sayin

 

[day_trippr]

You're wrong. Callin' it like I taste it. Just sayin'...

 

[Nagorg]

@applescrap I finally had a chance to try Juicy Bits by Weldwerks at GABF this week. lol That "beer" is pretty much OJ.

 

[just john]

I can't decide whether I like cloudy Neipas better than clear West Coast IPA better than cream ales better than Kolschs etc ect, so I just drink them all as much as possible.

I hope I never decide.

 

[PCABrewing]

@applescrap I finally had a chance to try Juicy Bits by Weldwerks at GABF this week. lol That "beer" is pretty much OJ.

Hard OJ?

 

[day_trippr]

The secret is they are all hazy! bwwaaaahahahahahahaha!

 

[NeoBrew]

The secret is they are all hazy! bwwaaaahahahahahahaha!

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It is one of the saddest things ever. Stone used to be my favorite brewery. (And I live in Minnesota!) Total Wine often has variety packs from them, but I don't buy them anymore or I would have to throw out 3/4 of the beer because it failed to "clarify".

 

[tdf]

It is one of the saddest things ever. Stone used to be my favorite brewery. (And I live in Minnesota!) Total Wine often has variety packs from them, but I don't buy them anymore or I would have to throw out 3/4 of the beer because it failed to "clarify".

50% ain't bad . Delicous IPA and the original are both great beers. The other two I leave for guests .

Stone is still brewing a nice west coast double in Ruination, though the new recipe (post 2018) isn't as good as the original.

 

[Miraculix]

I've had a stone IPA in UK, I think it was the one in the black can.

No idea how one could enjoy these. It was just bitterness with bitterness plus another layer of bitterness. Nope, not for me.

 

[bwible]

2022, when attempts to find a decent clear (WC is my fave) IPA at local stores becomes a scavenger hunt.

I think they hide most of them with all of the Brown and Mild ales!

Lagunitas and Voodoo Ranger are 2 good clear ones I haven’t had much trouble finding. I’m in PA. Lagunitas is in CA so if i can get that here it should be available pretty much nation wide. New Belgium is in NC and Colorado so they should have some good availability too.

 

[bwible]

This isn't a popularity contest. It is about not selling everything with the label IPA so that consumers know what they are going to get.

Some of us love a West Coast IPA.

Right. And the cheap canning machines that every mom and pop can buy now and the sudden popularity of canning everything makes it even worse. Everything is in a can and you can’t see what’s in the can.

 

[Nagorg]

It is one of the saddest things ever. Stone used to be my favorite brewery. (And I live in Minnesota!) Total Wine often has variety packs from them, but I don't buy them anymore or I would have to throw out 3/4 of the beer because it failed to "clarify".

They are still a great brewery and Stone IPA is a staple often found in my fridge. But I agree on the variety pack; I skip that for the same reason.

 

[InspectorJon]

Lagunitas is in CA so if i can get that here it should be available pretty much nation wide.

Lagunitas brews in Chicago also. A Little Sumpin' Sumpin' is another clear, not overly bitter IPA they make. I like it.

 

[bwible]

Lagunitas brews in Chicago also. A Little Sumpin' Sumpin' is another clear, not overly bitter IPA they make. I like it.

I have one Hop Stoopid left in my beer fridge. Just learned they don’t make it anymore

 

[Brooothru]

50% ain't bad . Delicous IPA and the original are both great beers. The other two I leave for guests .

Stone is still brewing a nice west coast double in Ruination, though the new recipe (post 2018) isn't as good as the original.

I’m onboard with everything in your post. I used to spend a lot of time in San Diego (Navy and airlines), and my son spends quite of time traveling there also in his business travels. Stone has always ranked high on both our ‘favorites’ list.

Not so much anymore. The original IPA, their low ABV (which was ahead of it’s time), Delicious and Ruination are all great beers. Other than that, I can’t remember the last time I went out of my way to even look for any other Stone beer. Maybe some day, but not any day soon.

 

[tdf]

Stone is still brewing a nice west coast double in Ruination, though the new recipe (post 2018) isn't as good as the original.

I was in the grocery store today and found out that they have brought back the original recipe for a limited time. It's just as delicious as I remember!

 

[OleBrewing]

I really thought the hop crazed beers would have been long gone by now. The hazy beers add a slickness in the mouth to get away with not using maltier grains. The crystal clear ones are sharp and dry. I prefer the hop forward and malty goodness aftertaste. Maybe why I stick with summit APA and Two Hearted Ale.

I look at the selections at the store and am put off by so many of the same genre that I stick to what I know and enjoy.

 

[day_trippr]

The hazy beers add a slickness in the mouth to get away with not using maltier grains.

Interesting. A common ingredient in New England IPAs is oat malt (or flaked oats) which "slickness" may be the primary descriptive. As a rather hard core "hazy" brewer I would say that is by design.

And, fwiw, I use a 50/50 blend of Golden Promise and Weyermann Pilsner base malts for all of my neipas. Base malts that are not lacking in character or pedigree. And I don't think that's novel - I bet many home brew hazy aficionados don't skimp on base malt quality

Cheers!

 

[OleBrewing]

Interesting. A common ingredient in New England IPAs is oat malt (or flaked oats) which "slickness" may be the primary descriptive. As a rather hard core "hazy" brewer I would say that is by design.

And, fwiw, I use a 50/50 blend of Golden Promise and Weyermann Pilsner base malts for all of my neipas. Base malts that are not lacking in character or pedigree. And I don't think that's novel - I bet many home brew hazy aficionados don't skimp on base malt quality

Cheers!

Can't say I have had many hazys or even brewed them. But I would bet most homebrewed versions are better than commercial ones. My rant was really about the "IPA" craze there really not many good ones and a few great ones for me in the upper Midwest. Of course finally saw some 90 min from dog fish head the other day.