Make IPA Clear Again

[Qhrumphf]

Also, if I recall, the GABF/WBC category for whatever you wish to call it was "American Black Ale"

 

[bwible]

Hoppy Roasty Ale

It gots nuthing to do with India.

It’s the origin story of the style. Though recent articles are now calling it myth. Mr Hogdson of the East India company was shipping barrels of beer from England to their troops in India during the 1700s when there was no refrigeration and it was a long sea voyage. Much of the beer supposedly spoiled during the voyage. So they took to doing 2 things to help the beer survive the trip. They made the beer stronger in alcohol and higher in hops, both of which would help keep the beer. The original intent was that the beer would be cut with local water upon arrival to bring it back to original strength. But the soldiers found they liked the stronger beer as it was so they never added the water back to it. IPA was born. Or so the old tale goes.

 

[Schlenkerla]

It’s the origin story of the style. Though recent articles are now calling it myth. Mr Hogdson of the East India company was shipping barrels of beer from England to their troops in India during the 1700s when there was no refrigeration and it was a long sea voyage. Much of the beer supposedly spoiled during the voyage. So they took to doing 2 things to help the beer survive the trip. They made the beer stronger in alcohol and higher in hops, both of which would help keep the beer. The original intent was that the beer would be cut with local water upon arrival to bring it back to original strength. But the soldiers found they liked the stronger beer as it was so they never added the water back to it. IPA was born. Or so the old tale goes.

So it doesn't have curry in it??? LoL

 

[balrog]

It’s the origin story of the style. Though recent articles are now calling it myth. Mr Hogdson of the East India company was shipping barrels of beer from England to their troops in India during the 1700s when there was no refrigeration and it was a long sea voyage. Much of the beer supposedly spoiled during the voyage. So they took to doing 2 things to help the beer survive the trip. They made the beer stronger in alcohol and higher in hops, both of which would help keep the beer. The original intent was that the beer would be cut with local water upon arrival to bring it back to original strength. But the soldiers found they liked the stronger beer as it was so they never added the water back to it. IPA was born. Or so the old tale goes.

Yes, IPA, right.
Not Black IPA. That was my point.

 

[Robert65]

It’s the origin story of the style. Though recent articles are now calling it myth. Mr Hogdson of the East India company was shipping barrels of beer from England to their troops in India during the 1700s when there was no refrigeration and it was a long sea voyage. Much of the beer supposedly spoiled during the voyage. So they took to doing 2 things to help the beer survive the trip. They made the beer stronger in alcohol and higher in hops, both of which would help keep the beer. The original intent was that the beer would be cut with local water upon arrival to bring it back to original strength. But the soldiers found they liked the stronger beer as it was so they never added the water back to it. IPA was born. Or so the old tale goes.

Yes of course it's a myth, even a cursory survey of historical brewing records will show that these pale ales for the East India trade were generally among the lowest in alcohol content of a given brewery's range, and were not by any means among the most heavily hopped. Also these were shipped to India in truly minute quantities compared to all the other beer sent there. Pale ale had some cachet with the officers and other elites. The bulk of the beer shipped to India was porter, preferred by tha mass of troops. Perhaps East India Porter is due for a revival. Or in keeping with the course of modern, American, craft IPA, the name is ripe to be appropriated and applied to entirely unlike and unrelated product.

 

[Qhrumphf]

It’s the origin story of the style. Though recent articles are now calling it myth. Mr Hogdson of the East India company was shipping barrels of beer from England to their troops in India during the 1700s when there was no refrigeration and it was a long sea voyage. Much of the beer supposedly spoiled during the voyage. So they took to doing 2 things to help the beer survive the trip. They made the beer stronger in alcohol and higher in hops, both of which would help keep the beer. The original intent was that the beer would be cut with local water upon arrival to bring it back to original strength. But the soldiers found they liked the stronger beer as it was so they never added the water back to it. IPA was born. Or so the old tale goes.

Like most tall tales it's elements of truth spun into fantasy. As far as I recall, more accurately plenty of Porter went to India, and that was mostly what the rank and file soldiers drank. Around the same time came the advances in malting technology that allowed for the production of pale malt (and thus pale beer). But if I recall correctly it was rarer and more expensive that the previously existing all-brown malt beers of the day, and ended up being the more upper class beer. But officers who'd gotten a taste for Pale Ale wanted that shipped to India as well, and THAT is how IPA was born. However was little to no (emphasis on no) functional overarching difference between Pale Ale and IPA. One brewery's Pale Ale would be stronger and hoppier than the next's IPA. And then a few month later they could take exact same Pale Ale and start calling it an IPA (or vice versa).

And of course, we can't forget that all beers of the day were ludicrously hopped by modern standards. Browse through Shut Up About Barclay Perkins (or one of Ron's books) and you'll be blown away how much hop was going in beers, whether they were going to India or not.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yes of course it's a myth, even a cursory survey of historical brewing records will show that these pale ales for the East India trade were generally among the lowest in alcohol content of a given brewery's range, and were not by any means among the most heavily hopped. Also these were shipped to India in truly minute quantities compared to all the other beer sent there. Pale ale had some cachet with the officers and other elites. The bulk of the beer shipped to India was porter, preferred by tha mass of troops. Perhaps East India Porter is due for a revival. Or in keeping with the course of modern, American, craft IPA, the name is ripe to be appropriated and applied to entirely unlike and unrelated product.

So a beer thread with issues about miss appropriated name and style is actually a fictitious marketing gimmick dating back a century or more..... [emoji848]

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yes of course it's a myth, even a cursory survey of historical brewing records will show that these pale ales for the East India trade were generally among the lowest in alcohol content of a given brewery's range, and were not by any means among the most heavily hopped. Also these were shipped to India in truly minute quantities compared to all the other beer sent there. Pale ale had some cachet with the officers and other elites. The bulk of the beer shipped to India was porter, preferred by tha mass of troops. Perhaps East India Porter is due for a revival. Or in keeping with the course of modern, American, craft IPA, the name is ripe to be appropriated and applied to entirely unlike and unrelated product.

Beat me to it, mate

 

[Qhrumphf]

So a beer thread with issues about miss appropriate name and style is actually a fictitious marketing gimmick dating back a century or more..... [emoji848]

Marketing gimmick you say?

Ain't never seen that before.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Marketing gimmick you say?

Ain't never seen that before.

India Pale Ale....

A Branding Awareness Thing. It's a pale ale for our boys garrisoned in India.(1822~1922) "Buy your India Pale Ale At Your Local Public House. Support Our Troops!

Also like a Kim Kardashian Sports Bra... Women buy that bra for the name when any **** sling will do.

 

[Robert65]

View attachment 652293

See the bartender gaze enviously upon the magnificent hat...

 

[Schlenkerla]

See the bartender gaze enviously upon the magnificent hat...

You think it's making him a little horny? Good thing it's not a German Shako Helmet

 

[Schlenkerla]

See the bartender gaze enviously upon the magnificent hat...

Not sure if you served in the military.... The bar tender is wearing what we called a cvnt-cap for obvious reasons. We Marines are a crude lot.

 

[Robert65]

Not sure if you served in the military.... The bar tender is wearing what we called a cvnt-cap for obvious reasons. We Marines are a crude lot.

No, just for the record, I did not serve. The older I get, the more I would regret this, had I not learned with age the futility of regret. But I have had a number of friends/acquaintances both US and Royal Marines. Yeah, you guys are pretty sick. Thank you for your service anyway.

And back almost on topic, learn something every day. Wtf is the idea of that silly little cap anyway?

 

[Wayne1]

http://zythophile.co.uk/2011/08/04/four-ipa-myths-that-need-to-be-stamped-out-for-ipaday/

 

[Robert65]

http://zythophile.co.uk/2011/08/04/four-ipa-myths-that-need-to-be-stamped-out-for-ipaday/

Martyn and Ron will always keep us sorted out.

 

[Schlenkerla]

No, just for the record, I did not serve. The older I get, the more I would regret this, had I not learned with age the futility of regret. But I have had a number of friends/acquaintances both US and Royal Marines. Yeah, you guys are pretty sick. Thank you for your service anyway.

And back almost on topic, learn something every day. Wtf is the idea of that silly little cap anyway?

Have no regrets if you did your part or what was expected by your parents.

I did it for God and Country. It's really about doing the inherently right thing for your family and friends without a need for recognition or validation. That to me is the definition of character. Doing what is right when nobody is looking or cares to notice.

Like I said, a cvnt cap. It's got two slits. You gotta figger out which slit sinks and/or stinks it.[emoji16]

 

[applescrap]

Maybe only two ipa styles needed, good or bad.

 

[ba-brewer]

That to me is the definition of character. Doing what is right when nobody is looking or cares to notice.

Words to live by. If we could only get everybody to think that way.

 

[bwible]

Yes of course it's a myth, even a cursory survey of historical brewing records will show that these pale ales for the East India trade were generally among the lowest in alcohol content of a given brewery's range, and were not by any means among the most heavily hopped. Also these were shipped to India in truly minute quantities compared to all the other beer sent there. Pale ale had some cachet with the officers and other elites. The bulk of the beer shipped to India was porter, preferred by tha mass of troops. Perhaps East India Porter is due for a revival. Or in keeping with the course of modern, American, craft IPA, the name is ripe to be appropriated and applied to entirely unlike and unrelated product.

I love revisionist history and alternate reality facts. Seems to be the way of the world today. I’m not 250 years old and I don’t know what was or wasn’t being shipped in 1780. But these are the stories. They don’t come from nowhere. East India Company is or was a very big and very real company in England for centuries and Mr. Hodgson is a real and verifiable person who ran it at the time. I guess people are free to believe whatever they want to believe.

 

[applescrap]

A known brew guy just wrote a book on it. Cant remember who, he did a podcast to. Janish maybe. That podcast would be worth a listen. One thing I remember was that Hogson was apparently an azz and got thrown out of the trade ring or something like that. He talks about porter, etc. Porter is interesting and iiac was the preferred drink of the day.....see clear cloying overly bitter ipa has always played second fiddle, now get me some dishwater.

 

[Robert65]

I love revisionist history and alternate reality facts. Seems to be the way of the world today. I’m not 250 years old and I don’t know what was or wasn’t being shipped in 1780. But these are the stories. They don’t come from nowhere. East India Company is or was a very big and very real company in England for centuries and Mr. Hodgson is a real and verifiable person who ran it at the time. I guess people are free to believe whatever they want to believe.

Hodgson had no direct connection whatsoever with the East India Company, the de facto, privateer, government in India, as well as monopolistic instrument of commerce. There was a George Hodgson who was a porter brewer at London, and he did supply beer for shipment to India by the Company. Later myth attributed to him the invention of India Pale Ale, or at least the institution of the East India trade in pale ale. In fact he played a very minor role in this trade, having established his brewery at Bow (1751) some 30 years after the first records of imported pale ale being available in Calcutta, many other brewers advertising these products in the Calcutta press before Hodgson entered the market. Hodgson's brewery successfully shipped porter to India into the 1840s, but the pale ale trade of his and other London breweries was soon eclipsed by the brewers of Burton.

We do know precisely what occurred, what was shipped, and so on, because detailed records were kept and can still be consulted, amongst other monuments of historical evidence. The same way, of course, we know anything about what has transpired in the expanse of time and space outside ourselves.

You might care to learn some actual history before making an appeal to your own ignorance in an attempt to discredit those who have made the effort.

[edit sp.]

 

[Schlenkerla]

While the history is interesting. Whatever it is it doesn't change the original style guidelines. The NEIPA is essentially a new style.

My 2020 New Beers Resolution will to be to create a Midwest IPA. The I in IPA will be for Illinois. It will be moderately low in ABV (4%), have German/Czech/Polish hops. SRM about 3-5. You'll be able to drink a lot of after church on Sunday. It will require to be served in a mason jar. The water will have so much gypsum that it will be super clear (even if wants to be cloudy). So much that if you drink too much it'll make you crap your pants. I'm thinking about 900ppm CaSO4. The thought is you can use this to replace that awful stuff you have to drink before having a colonoscopy. Well, at least that's the plan.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Revisionist history goes right beside conspiracy theory. Right in the f***ing bin.

Facts don't cease to be facts just because you don't like them and would prefer to believe something else.

Most of the human species would benefit accepting that reality.

 

[6Tap]

I like clear IPA’s and I can not lie. [emoji482]

 

[applescrap]

I like 12 oz of hops in my 5 gallons and I cant lie either. Cheers to IPA!!

View attachment 652475
I like clear IPA’s and I can not lie. [emoji482]

 

[Schlenkerla]

View attachment 652475
I like clear IPA’s and I can not lie. [emoji482]

That the as saying I lie and don't like them.

Looks tasty.

 

[day_trippr]

While the history is interesting. Whatever it is it doesn't change the original style guidelines. The NEIPA is essentially a new style.[...]

In what context? BJCP recognition?
The style itself is actually 20-something years old. It only became crazy popular in the last few...

Cheers!

 

[Schlenkerla]

In what context? BJCP recognition?
The style itself is actually 20-something years old. It only became crazy popular in the last few...

Cheers!

I didn't know it was that old... Learn something everyday.

 

[6Tap]

I like 12 oz of hops in my 5 gallons and I cant lie either. Cheers to IPA!!

Please stop by for a pint or two when ur in my neighborhood! [emoji482]

 

[applescrap]

I have seen your setup! Thats a hell of an offer, deal. Where in Northern California are you. My whole family is from San Francisco. I am in Denver and the inlaws moved to Florida so we have been going there.

Please stop by for a pint or two when ur in my neighborhood! [emoji482]

 

[6Tap]

I have seen your setup! Thats a hell of an offer, deal. Where in Northern California are you. My whole family is from San Francisco. I am in Denver and the inlaws moved to Florida so we have been going there.

Pm sent. [emoji482]

 

[eimar]

NEIPA , a pseudo-style invented by BJCP to satisfy some ( Vermont ? Rhode Island ? Conncticut ? ) brewer victim of the " me too" syndrom (San Francisco has its beer style, why not Burlington ) I want my own BJCP subcategory but I am too lazy to add isinglass or too cheap to buy a centrifuge.

 

[couchsending]

The shear volume of ignorance displayed in this thread always makes me laugh. That and the trolling...

 

[Schlenkerla]

The shear volume of ignorance displayed in this thread always makes me laugh. That and the trolling...

Maybe they come here to shower you with ignorance to make you feel better.

Are you into Trolish Foods too? I am.

Pizza is the one of best Trolish Foods to argue about in this thread.

 

[6Tap]

The shear volume of ignorance displayed in this thread always makes me laugh. That and the trolling...

Get off the couch and show us your clear IPA beer..[emoji482]

 

[eimar]

The style itself is actually 20-something years old.

Cheers!

20years old ?? It must have been a well kept secret. As a neighbour I heard about that concoction ... last year when Mc Auslan produced it.

 

[Schlenkerla]

NEIPA , a pseudo-style invented by BJCP to satisfy some ( Vermont ? Rhode Island ? Conncticut ? ) brewer victim of the " me too" syndrom (San Francisco has its beer style, why not Burlington ) I want my own BJCP subcategory but I am too lazy to add isinglass or too cheap to buy a centrifuge.

Playing devil's advocate, per your last comment should Hefeweizen be treated with isinglass or be centrifuged? Ironically, some American wheat beers are very clear and clean with no phenolic or esters. Which is wrong?

I don't know the chemistry of NEIPA (thinking water profile and hop isomerization) or have good scientific explanation. I thought there was something with the amount of hops used in the beer caused the cloudiness. They are adding a bunch of flaked wheat and oats.

Which is the root cause for the lack of clarity?

A) Copious Amounts of Hops
B) Flaked Adjuncts
C) Soft Water, Low in Gypsum (Calcium Sufate)
D) A & B
E) All the above

Question: What's the proper definition of hazy? (Do not use Cloudy, Murky or Turbid in your definition.)

Answer: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/hazy

"hazy"

"If it's hazy, it's definitely not clear — there's fog, mist, smoke or something like that blurring the view. Hazy usually describes a sky that's fogged over or otherwise unclear. But if you're feeling a little uncertain or unsure about something, with only a bleary outline in your mind, you could say you're a bit hazy on the details."

"Synonyms:bleary, blurred, blurry, foggy, fuzzy, muzzy"


Brew your own article: https://byo.com/article/neipa-style-profile/

From the article: "While it still seems like the style is evolving, it has become popular enough that there is demand for a competition reference. For those who haven’t tried one of these, a New England IPA is basically an American IPA that features an intense, mostly tropical fruit, hop aroma and flavor, is heavily dry hopped to the point of being hazy, and that has a fuller body, smoother flavor, and less perceived bitterness than other popular IPA examples."

This is further down the article. Maybe the issue in this thread is more of the misconception or when people pass off a bad rendition of an NEIPA. Maybe this is the issue people have with the style. I think it's more about another beer in the IPA Sandbox. Kin to a hooker with a penis. - LoL.



From the article: "The first thing you will notice looking at an example of this style is that the beer is quite hazy. Not cloudy, murky, turbid, milky, or otherwise thick-looking with large suspended particles; just a somewhat opaque, shiny, light-reflecting haze. The beer should not look like a yeast starter or a protein shake. The color is fairly pale (straw to golden), but some examples can have an orange hue. The opacity of the haze can make the color appear slightly darker than it is. A dense, white, rocky, persistent head is common as well."

Recipe - From the article:

New England IPA

(5 gallons/19 L, extract with grains)
OG = 1.061 FG = 1.012
IBU = 56 SRM = 5 ABV = 6.5%

Ingredients

7.2 lbs. (3.3 kg) pale liquid malt extract
1 lb. (454 g) dried wheat or weizen malt extract
12.9 AAU Amarillo[emoji2400] hops (first wort hop) (1.5 oz./43 g at 8.6% alpha acids)
1.5 oz. (43 g) Amarillo[emoji2400] hops (0 min.)
1 oz. (28 g) Citra[emoji2400] hops (hop stand)
1 oz. (28 g) GalaxyTM hops (hop stand)
1 oz. (28 g) Mosaic[emoji2400] hops (hop stand)
3 oz. (85 g) Citra[emoji2400] hops (dry hop)
1.5 oz. (43 g) GalaxyTM hops (dry hop)
1.5 oz. (43 g) Mosaic[emoji2400] hops (dry hop)
GigaYeast GY054 (Vermont IPA) or White Labs WLP095 (Burlington Ale) yeast
3⁄4 cup corn sugar (if priming)

Step by Step

Use 6 gallons (23 L) of water in the brew kettle; heat to 158 °F (70 °C). Add the malt extracts and stir thoroughly to dissolve the extract completely. You do not want to feel liquid extract at the bottom of the kettle when stirring with your spoon. Turn the heat back on and bring to a boil.

Boil the wort for 60 minutes, adding the hops at times indicated. The first wort hops are added to the kettle just after the malt extract is dissolved but before bringing to a boil. The 0 minute hops get added right after the heat is turned off. Stir the wort gently and allow to cool to 180 °F (82 °C) then add the hop stand hops. Allow to stand for 20 minutes then chill to 64 °F (18 °C) and rack to the fermenter.

Oxygenate, then pitch the yeast. Start fermentation at 64 °F (18 °C), allowing temperature to rise naturally as fermentation progresses. Mix the dry hops and divide into three equal portions. The first portion gets added after two days of active fermentation. The second portion gets added at the end of fermentation. The third portion gets added three days after fermentation ends. Allow each dry hop addition to be in contact with the beer for two to three days, then remove.

Rack the beer, prime and bottle condition, or keg and force carbonate to 2.5 volumes. Do not filter or fine the beer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

20years old ?? It must have been a well kept secret. As a neighbour I heard about that concoction ... last year when Mc Auslan produced it.

Per the BYO article it was nationally recognized in 2011. Doesn't mean a local brewery or the neighborhood wasn't making the beer in this manner in 1999.

Possibly the Home Brewer come Pro was doing this cause:

1) He was shopping for hops while drinking (bought pounds instead of ounces or got them on clearance) and decided he needed to use them up before they spoiled. Hence his over hopping of his APA.

2) Maybe he was shipping beer to India and it was spoiling before it got there. Prolly cause he wasn't doing doing closed transfers.

3) He was an anti religious zealot and thought LODO was a religion. Lutheran Orthodox Diocese of Oregon.

 

[Imhoppy]

Question: What's the proper definition of hazy? (Do not use Cloudy, Murky or Turbid in your definition.)

Answer: Polluted. Adjectives include - made unclean or impure; contaminated; tainted.

Clear IPA's all the way! It's awesome to see what's NOT there! Cheers [emoji481]