Make IPA Clear Again

Williams 728
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Did everything possible minus the post fermentation finings (I’ll never fine a hoppy beer) to make this beer clear.

Tons of Ca in the Boil, whirlfloc

Bittered to 140 theoretical

2row, Carapils, C15

Cooled to 55 for 2 days before dry hopping

American Ale Yeast (Bell’s)

Lagered for 2 weeks at 32*

Three weeks later still hazy a hell and it’s just from the hops.

If you truly are a hop head it shouldn’t matter what it looks like.

D35B985C-5E7E-4D17-B162-2C08361FFD66.jpeg
 
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couchsending said:
If you truly are a hop head it shouldn’t matter what it looks like.
Click to expand...

The head on that beer looks awesome. But on clarity and if it matters... Its truly subjective. For me personally, an IPA with good hop flavor, aroma and bitterness and "some haze" is pretty nice. If you take that IPA with the same hop characteristics but top it off with good clarity too..., Good now becomes GREATNESS!

So to me, it can and does matter!

-HopHead
 
Nagorg said:
The head on that beer looks awesome. But on clarity and if it matters... Its truly subjective. For me personally, an IPA with good hop flavor, aroma and bitterness and "some haze" is pretty nice. If you take that IPA with the same hop characteristics but top it off with good clarity too..., Good now becomes GREATNESS!

So to me, it can and does matter!

-HopHead
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But that same IPA with better clarity will always have less hop flavor and aroma. So you sacrifice.. for what? What it looks like is more important than what it smells and tastes like?
 
Everything Nagorg says makes it clear that he doesn't have much experience brewing and tasting the finest IPAs. Hopefully nobody believes the nonsense.
 
I've been reading Chucky P's good book. It appears all these milky beer brewing fuggers need to add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to their water.

Apparently if your Calcium is below 50ppm you're more likey to have cloudy beers if you have soft water.
 
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Just to add a data-point to this conversation: I was in Des Moines over Labor Day. Ordered an "American Pale Ale" at a place, and was served a glass of opaque "juiciness"! No mention in the description of the beer anywhere that this was a "juice bomb".

This is a reason why descriptors exist... if I ordered an IPA five years ago and I was served a beer that looked like a stout or schwarzbier, I would send it back-- oh wait, CDA or Black IPA would have been used to describe it!

Name these beers "juicies" or "sippy cup" or whatever... but let the consumer have an idea of what they are getting into!
 
I've been brewing for 13 years and really overlooked using gypsum. Most of the comments to this subject have been if your water tastes good it's ok to use for brewing. Pretty much left it at that.

I've been brewing more RHG and spunding I figured clarity could be helped with proper water treatment. After rereading Chucky P's Good Book in one of the chapters that cover brewing water, it's convinced me to look at calcium in my tap water. Mine has 48 ppm of Calcium. So I could benefit by adding some gypsum.

For the sake of clear beer!

---- Everything below this line is copy & paste. ---

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/6KDwm8vWwW/


The Oxford Companion to Beer definition of

gypsum

Gypsum is a natural form of calcium sulfate, CaSO4, with varying degrees of water of crystallization (usually 2 H20). It is relatively insoluble in water and is the main constituent of permanent hardness in water. When in the crystalline or dry powder form, it is also known as “Alabaster” or “Plaster of Paris.”

In brewing it is perhaps best known as the main mineral in the well water of Burton Upon Trent, England, and is widely attributed to be the essential component of the water for pale ale and India pale ale brewing; as such it is the main ingredient in the Burtonizing salts for brewing water treatment. See burton-on-trent. It is added by dissolving the gypsum in the mashing and sparging water or directly as a powder into the grist or mash vessels at mashing.

Gypsum’s positive effects are to reduce wort pH, improve malt extraction efficiency through enhanced amylolytic activity, give a buffering capacity to the wort, balance the hop flavor for highly hopped beers, improve wort clarity , and remove phosphates and proteins in the wort trub. However, this latter effect of removing phosphate ions (as insoluble calcium phosphate) can be overdone and adversely affect the fermentation if the wort is too depleted of phosphate ions. Similarly a high sulfate content in brewing water and wort can affect the beer flavor, producing the famous Burton stench (sometimes also known as the “Burton snatch” or “sulfur-bite”—a distinctive smell of hydrogen sulfide, which, when concentrated, becomes reminiscent of rotten eggs). See burton snatch.

The amount of calcium sulfate required or added depends on the base water calcium sulfate content. Brewing water with 150 to 1200 mg/l of calcium sulfate is typical but will be varied according to the wort strength and beer data-type to be brewed.

See also calcium sulfate.

Priest,Fergus G., andGraham G. Stewart.. Handbook of brewing 2nd ed. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, Taylor & Francis Group, 2006.

Scholefield, A. J. B.The treatment of brewing water. Liverpool, UK: Privately published, 1953.

Warren,Cyprian A., Brewing waters. London: The Brewing Trade Review, 1923.

Chris J. Marchbanks
 
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From more beer....https://www.morebeer.com/products/gypsum-1-lb.html

"Keeping track of your water chemistry pays off with outstanding tasting beer!

If you have soft water and are brewing a hop forward beer, you’ll want some Gypsum on hand. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is used to add permanent hardness to your brewing water in the form of calcium ions, which will increase the hop perception in your beer.

1 gram of Calcium Sulfate in 1 gallon of water changes the salt levels by 61.5 ppm calcium, 147.5 ppm sulfate and adds 153.5 ppm to the hardness. "
 
I always use Gypsum. Where I live, my water is very soft with higher levels of sodium than desired for beer due to the softening process. So I blend with DI and use Brun'water to calculate the mineral additions and shoot for 50ppm or higher CC.

So not to make this a water chemistry thread, the process' I use help me produce very clear IPA; the way it should be!
 
Nagorg said:
I always use Gypsum. Where I live, my water is very soft with higher levels of sodium than desired for beer due to the softening process. So I blend with DI and use Brun'water to calculate the mineral additions and shoot for 50ppm or higher CC.

So not to make this a water chemistry thread, the process' I use help me produce very clear IPA; the way it should be!
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I'm with you. I wasn't trying to go off topic. My thought was to clarity and the annoyance that I have with my young beers. I do wonder how many of these cloudy beers wouldn't remain that way if the water was harder or is it a prerequisite?

More importantly, since we do want hoppy IPAs, using gypsum to get harder water makes it's more like the style this thread talks about, the Traditional English Style India Pale Ale.

As I said earlier, it's not something I really paid attention to per say. I should though.
 
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Nagorg said:
I always use Gypsum. Where I live, my water is very soft with higher levels of sodium than desired for beer due to the softening process. So I blend with DI and use Brun'water to calculate the mineral additions and shoot for 50ppm or higher CC.

So not to make this a water chemistry thread, the process' I use help me produce very clear IPA; the way it should be!
Click to expand...
I have to download Brun'water and try it out.

I kinda like this guy's thought. Have you ever tried to make Burton-On-Trent water?

http://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-to-burtonize-your-brewing-water.html?m=1
 
Not a fan either but whatever, I just don't drink them. The ones that I have had just seem to have this underlying yeasty, sweet thing going on that just ruins it for me. It's all just a gimmick in my book. As far as if it's to style or not, I'm sure breweries could give two shits what the style guidelines say. For example, last night I had a Surly Furious IPA for the first time. It was amazing, but def out of the IPA category, more like a double. So what, not worth getting bent out of shape about.
 
Yankeehillbrewer said:
As far as if it's to style or not, I'm sure breweries could give two poopys what the style guidelines say.
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Style guidelines, both GABF and BJCP, and the rest, are reactive based on what commercial breweries (and in the latter case both commercial and home brewers) are doing. They were never intended to confine anyone.

Those guidelines matter solely for competition.

When it comes to commercial beers on the shelves WRT to consumers, broad is close enough. And hazy IPAs fit the "IPA" general moniker. Because all that moniker says is "hoppy".
 
cyberbackpacker said:
Just to add a data-point to this conversation: I was in Des Moines over Labor Day. Ordered an "American Pale Ale" at a place, and was served a glass of opaque "juiciness"! No mention in the description of the beer anywhere that this was a "juice bomb".
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Honestly, that is my biggest issue. I enjoy NEIPAs and I enjoy American IPAs and American Pale Ales. While I understand that there is a spectrum, the classic examples of an American IPA and the current examples of an NEIPA are drastically different beer styles. They are not even close. Different hops, different malt, different water profile, different yeast, different process. As a consumer I should not have to look for clues. If I was in the mood for a Cream Ale and the beer labeled as such was really a German Hefeweizen, I might be an upset consumer.
 
Yankeehillbrewer said:
Not a fan either but whatever, I just don't drink them. The ones that I have had just seem to have this underlying yeasty, sweet thing going on that just ruins it for me. It's all just a gimmick in my book. As far as if it's to style or not, I'm sure breweries could give two poopys what the style guidelines say. For example, last night I had a Surly Furious IPA for the first time. It was amazing, but def out of the IPA category, more like a double. So what, not worth getting bent out of shape about.
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I don't mind the ones advertised as NEIPA with the classic C hops and some mosiac. Milkshake IPAs... Meh, I can take them or leave it. If somebody gave me one I'd drink it, but I don't want 5 gallons of it though.

I've made weird stuff over the years. While it's cool for a few times and a tasting at brew club it tends to wear out it's welcome on my three tapper.

Odd ball stuff I've made.
- Banana Chocolate Stout.
- Banana Fat Tire (Double OG -11%).
- Blueberry Hefeweizen.
- Cherry Dunkelweizen - Gyled with Cherry Juice.
- Jalapeno Hefeweizen.
- Caramel Tripel with Dry Caramelized Sucrose.
^^^^ this last one just got me ripped frequently while trying to kick it.

Truth be told I really don't like everything going cloudy. There's something nice about good looking clear beer.

I just want to make the standard styles but make a really good ones. That's partly the reason going to Low Oxygen this year. I'm sticking to three - four types of beer in my keezer.

1) Bamberg Rauchbier - Wiezen or Classic.
2) Fat Tire Amber - Clone.
3) Pale Ale or India Pale Ale.
4) Brown or Mild using 100% smoked brown malt.

3 and 4 can be served on my nitro.
 
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YES... Make it mandatory that those murky concoctions be served in opaque vessels; and don't bother calling them IPA! I'd probably chose them then!
 
ba-brewer said:
Someone not too long ago posted a bunch of beer they bought on a trip to Germany, I was surprised at the cloudiness of some of the brewery fresh beers.
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Maybe it's like homebrew primed an bottled. I think Anchor Steam is kräusened. Which same as the English Method of using Gyle. My guess they probably were kräusened.

I like Muntons Premium Gold for something I'm going to bottle. It settles in a firm jelly like manner.

"Muntons Gold yeast simply requires a sprinkling onto the surface of the wort (no need to stir), and the yeast will rehydrate and activate within just a few hours. The yeast has excellent crusting characteristics, forming a firm jelly-like deposit at the bottom of the fermenter. Flavor profile is excellent and the yeast has the ability to drop out of suspension very rapidly. The firm crusting characteristics will ensure that only beer is transferred to your bottles, reducing waste and keeping the beer brighter."

https://www.austinhomebrew.com/Muntons-Premium-Gold-Dry-Yeast_p_908.html
 
cyberbackpacker said:
Just to add a data-point to this conversation: I was in Des Moines over Labor Day. Ordered an "American Pale Ale" at a place, and was served a glass of opaque "juiciness"! No mention in the description of the beer anywhere that this was a "juice bomb".

This is a reason why descriptors exist... if I ordered an IPA five years ago and I was served a beer that looked like a stout or schwarzbier, I would send it back-- oh wait, CDA or Black IPA would have been used to describe it!

Name these beers "juicies" or "sippy cup" or whatever... but let the consumer have an idea of what they are getting into!
Click to expand...
I agree. That grinds my gears...
 
cyberbackpacker said:
Just to add a data-point to this conversation: I was in Des Moines over Labor Day. Ordered an "American Pale Ale" at a place, and was served a glass of opaque "juiciness"! No mention in the description of the beer anywhere that this was a "juice bomb".

This is a reason why descriptors exist... if I ordered an IPA five years ago and I was served a beer that looked like a stout or schwarzbier, I would send it back-- oh wait, CDA or Black IPA would have been used to describe it!

Name these beers "juicies" or "sippy cup" or whatever... but let the consumer have an idea of what they are getting into!
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, I loves me some clear IPAs, but you've just inspired me to name my next beer Sippy Cup IPA!
 
I mainly brew and drink hazy/NEIPAs, American IPAs and pales, and an occasional pilsner. I don't mind a clear beer but I also don't get the disdain for haze. At this point whenever I open or am served a beer that's hazy I get excited, my brain automatically thinks "hop saturated deliciousness!". Sometimes the beer sucks, but that's life. People can agree to disagree all they want, but if you fine the crap out of your beer I'm pretty sure you are removing some of the hop oils that could've stuck around. To each their own though.

The thing I find the most off putting about this thread though is the vitriol from some of the posters. I know it's just a troll job, or they're exaggerating for effect, but calling them 'abominations' and such? I honestly think stouts and super boozy tripels are gross AF, but I wouldn't call them disgusting abominations. They're just a style I don't like.
 
VirginiaHops1 said:
I mainly brew and drink hazy/NEIPAs, American IPAs and pales, and an occasional pilsner. I don't mind a clear beer but I also don't get the disdain for haze. At this point whenever I open or am served a beer that's hazy I get excited, my brain automatically thinks "hop saturated deliciousness!". Sometimes the beer sucks, but that's life. People can agree to disagree all they want, but if you fine the crap out of your beer I'm pretty sure you are removing some of the hop oils that could've stuck around. To each their own though.

The thing I find the most off putting about this thread though is the vitriol from some of the posters. I know it's just a troll job, or they're exaggerating for effect, but calling them 'abominations' and such? I honestly think stouts and super boozy tripels are gross AF, but I wouldn't call them disgusting abominations. They're just a style I don't like.
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I might be one of the guilty parties. My vitriol for the whole thing is that the style is sort of "trolling" me wherever I go.

The appropriate parallel is that you go to a restaurant, order a pale ale, and they bring you a stout or super boozy tripel.

I have been clear that I think that having the hazy style is fine, and if people like it and consumers buy it, then it is legit just on those grounds. My only beef is that I can't seem to order the beer I want because of....

1. People call the beers the wrong thing.
2. It is causing servers to think that it's ok for all beers to be served with sludge in it. (I am drawing a distinction between haze that was designed for and sludge from the bottom of the keg that the bartender just didn't bother to toss instead of serve to me.)
 

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