Make IPA Clear Again

[Jag75]

Heres my take . RAHAHB! Cheers

 

[NeoBrew]

I think is worth acknowledging that there is a distinct difference in "some haze" and complete turbidity. Its the acceptance of the latter and its impact to the industry in general that really raises my hackles. Its really a devolution for the IPA style and beer in general IMO.

I do not include styles like Hefeweizen in this comment since number one, they are supposed to be turbid and number two, no alignment with IPA.

Case in point. I went out to a Chilli's with the inlaws yesterday. I ordered an Surly Furious. It's a west coast style IPA. It can have a slight hop haze to it. The waitress reported to me that the keg had just tapped and that they were changing it. I was more than happy to wait. What came a few minutes later was pretty much like it was mixed 50% with milk. I don't even know how you can get it to look like that. I've bought kegs for home and have had them pour clear from the first draw.

But, the bartender poured it, thought it was ok. The waitress delivered it, thought it was ok. I took one look at it and asked what it was. She seemed a little put off but dutifully returned it to the bartender. He then came out with a fresh one that was at least passably clear. His response was that he had just changed the keg and that they pour a little cloudy sometimes. But he had no reservation about serving that beer. THAT is a negative impact that these styles have had. It makes beer faults in other beers seem acceptable.

 

[vtipsy]

Call it hoppy ale. New England hoppy ale or West coast hoppy ale or Whatever Tickles hoppy ale but it's not bloody India Pale Ale.

APA - American Pale Ale. Now thats better, that makes sense.

Maybe go with SAPA - Strong American Pale Ale.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think is worth acknowledging that there is a distinct difference in "some haze" and complete turbidity. Its the acceptance of the latter and its impact to the industry in general that really raises my hackles. Its really a devolution for the IPA style and beer in general IMO.

I do not include styles like Hefeweizen in this comment since number one, they are supposed to be turbid and number two, no alignment with IPA.

I'm fine with a complete opaque haze in this instance. Same with Wit and Hefe.

Now, when it's visibly *chunky* and has bits floating (which I've seen the kids call "pulpy", excuse me while I vomit), even for NEIPA that's a sh*te brewer. And there's definitely plenty of that out there. Often the ones with gratuitous hop burn as well.

 

[kingmatt]

Case in point. I went out to a Chilli's with the inlaws yesterday. I ordered an Surly Furious. It's a west coast style IPA. It can have a slight hop haze to it. The waitress reported to me that the keg had just tapped and that they were changing it. I was more than happy to wait. What came a few minutes later was pretty much like it was mixed 50% with milk. I don't even know how you can get it to look like that. I've bought kegs for home and have had them pour clear from the first draw.

But, the bartender poured it, thought it was ok. The waitress delivered it, thought it was ok. I took one look at it and asked what it was. She seemed a little put off but dutifully returned it to the bartender. He then came out with a fresh one that was at least passably clear. His response was that he had just changed the keg and that they pour a little cloudy sometimes. But he had no reservation about serving that beer. THAT is a negative impact that these styles have had. It makes beer faults in other beers seem acceptable.

I'd wager that had more to do with the wait staff/bartender at Chili's either not knowing enough about the beer or not really caring enough because they work at Chili's. I have experienced several similar situations (especially in my time as a waiter in college) and this was well before the "haze craze".

 

[ba-brewer]

The first hazy IPA I brewed was a Surly Furious clone, that beer never cleared. Thinking I may have dry hopped too early.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]But I urge you find fresh Heady Topper, arguably one of the if not the beer that started this trend. It's VERY bitter. Not West Coast IBU Arms Race bitter, but bitter enough to exceed many a west-coast style IPA.

Being near 'nuff to get HT as often as desired, and having consumed the best NEIPAs often (Treehouse, etc - I do live in the epicenter of the style) and having brewed numerous WCIPA and NEIPAs, I dispute the notion that the classic NEIPA is anywhere near the class WCIPA wrt bitterness - perceived or otherwise.

That is all.

Cheers!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I agree that this thread has become a circle jerk.

A circle jerk is a really good way to make a cloudy beer.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Being near 'nuff to get HT as often as desired, and having consumed the best NEIPAs often (Treehouse, etc - I do live in the epicenter of the style) and having brewed numerous WCIPA and NEIPAs, I dispute the notion that the classic NEIPA is anywhere near the class WCIPA wrt bitterness - perceived or otherwise.

That is all.

Cheers!

I see you're in Stow - I love Medusa. Sure, they do a lot of IPA stuff, but their cream ale and dark milds are fantastic!

 

[beersk]

LOL....

I dont think having the #1 rated beer for years is subjective.

No, it goes to show that the masses are generally senseless. Take a look at the Top 40 music charts... Surely that many people CAN'T be wrong! Surely...

 

[Blazinlow86]

Like this?

 

[couchsending]

Did everything possible minus the post fermentation finings (I’ll never fine a hoppy beer) to make this beer clear.

Tons of Ca in the Boil, whirlfloc

Bittered to 140 theoretical

2row, Carapils, C15

Cooled to 55 for 2 days before dry hopping

American Ale Yeast (Bell’s)

Lagered for 2 weeks at 32*

Three weeks later still hazy a hell and it’s just from the hops.

If you truly are a hop head it shouldn’t matter what it looks like.

 

[grampamark]

This is an APA/IPA, about 60 IBU. Kegged a month ago and the keg kicked just as the head reached the rim of the glass. Reasonably clear?

 

[Nagorg]

If you truly are a hop head it shouldn’t matter what it looks like.

The head on that beer looks awesome. But on clarity and if it matters... Its truly subjective. For me personally, an IPA with good hop flavor, aroma and bitterness and "some haze" is pretty nice. If you take that IPA with the same hop characteristics but top it off with good clarity too..., Good now becomes GREATNESS!

So to me, it can and does matter!

-HopHead

 

[couchsending]

The head on that beer looks awesome. But on clarity and if it matters... Its truly subjective. For me personally, an IPA with good hop flavor, aroma and bitterness and "some haze" is pretty nice. If you take that IPA with the same hop characteristics but top it off with good clarity too..., Good now becomes GREATNESS!

So to me, it can and does matter!

-HopHead

But that same IPA with better clarity will always have less hop flavor and aroma. So you sacrifice.. for what? What it looks like is more important than what it smells and tastes like?

 

[day_trippr]

That pretty much sums up the thread...

 

[SEndorf]

That pretty much sums up the thread...

One way ticket yeah...
It took me sooooooo long... to find out.... what I found out....

 

[Nagorg]

But that same IPA with better clarity will always have less hop flavor and aroma.

Always? We'll have to agree to disagree on that!

 

[kevink]

Everything Nagorg says makes it clear that he doesn't have much experience brewing and tasting the finest IPAs. Hopefully nobody believes the nonsense.

 

[IanJ]

In honor of finally reading through the entire topic, and all of the wonderful talking points within, I'll share this Instagram account that I found... which will surely make some of you giddy with glee: https://www.instagram.com/hopsjefe/

Some highlights:

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've been reading Chucky P's good book. It appears all these milky beer brewing fuggers need to add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to their water.

Apparently if your Calcium is below 50ppm you're more likey to have cloudy beers if you have soft water.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Who's for Burton-On-Trent water profiles with 260ppm to 352ppm for calcium?

 

[IanJ]

Maybe they confused boosting calcium-sulfate with calcium, and poured a gallon of milk into the mash?

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Just to add a data-point to this conversation: I was in Des Moines over Labor Day. Ordered an "American Pale Ale" at a place, and was served a glass of opaque "juiciness"! No mention in the description of the beer anywhere that this was a "juice bomb".

This is a reason why descriptors exist... if I ordered an IPA five years ago and I was served a beer that looked like a stout or schwarzbier, I would send it back-- oh wait, CDA or Black IPA would have been used to describe it!

Name these beers "juicies" or "sippy cup" or whatever... but let the consumer have an idea of what they are getting into!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Who's for Burton-On-Trent water profiles with 260ppm to 352ppm for calcium?

Anybody?

Anybody?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Maybe they confused boosting calcium-sulfate with calcium, and poured a gallon of milk into the mash?

Yeah.... Or Instant milk powder.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've been brewing for 13 years and really overlooked using gypsum. Most of the comments to this subject have been if your water tastes good it's ok to use for brewing. Pretty much left it at that.

I've been brewing more RHG and spunding I figured clarity could be helped with proper water treatment. After rereading Chucky P's Good Book in one of the chapters that cover brewing water, it's convinced me to look at calcium in my tap water. Mine has 48 ppm of Calcium. So I could benefit by adding some gypsum.

For the sake of clear beer!

---- Everything below this line is copy & paste. ---

https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/6KDwm8vWwW/


The Oxford Companion to Beer definition of

gypsum

Gypsum is a natural form of calcium sulfate, CaSO4, with varying degrees of water of crystallization (usually 2 H20). It is relatively insoluble in water and is the main constituent of permanent hardness in water. When in the crystalline or dry powder form, it is also known as “Alabaster” or “Plaster of Paris.”

In brewing it is perhaps best known as the main mineral in the well water of Burton Upon Trent, England, and is widely attributed to be the essential component of the water for pale ale and India pale ale brewing; as such it is the main ingredient in the Burtonizing salts for brewing water treatment. See burton-on-trent. It is added by dissolving the gypsum in the mashing and sparging water or directly as a powder into the grist or mash vessels at mashing.

Gypsum’s positive effects are to reduce wort pH, improve malt extraction efficiency through enhanced amylolytic activity, give a buffering capacity to the wort, balance the hop flavor for highly hopped beers, improve wort clarity , and remove phosphates and proteins in the wort trub. However, this latter effect of removing phosphate ions (as insoluble calcium phosphate) can be overdone and adversely affect the fermentation if the wort is too depleted of phosphate ions. Similarly a high sulfate content in brewing water and wort can affect the beer flavor, producing the famous Burton stench (sometimes also known as the “Burton snatch” or “sulfur-bite”—a distinctive smell of hydrogen sulfide, which, when concentrated, becomes reminiscent of rotten eggs). See burton snatch.

The amount of calcium sulfate required or added depends on the base water calcium sulfate content. Brewing water with 150 to 1200 mg/l of calcium sulfate is typical but will be varied according to the wort strength and beer data-type to be brewed.

See also calcium sulfate.

Priest,Fergus G., andGraham G. Stewart.. Handbook of brewing 2nd ed. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, Taylor & Francis Group, 2006.

Scholefield, A. J. B.The treatment of brewing water. Liverpool, UK: Privately published, 1953.

Warren,Cyprian A., Brewing waters. London: The Brewing Trade Review, 1923.

Chris J. Marchbanks

 

[Schlenkerla]

From more beer....https://www.morebeer.com/products/gypsum-1-lb.html

"Keeping track of your water chemistry pays off with outstanding tasting beer!

If you have soft water and are brewing a hop forward beer, you’ll want some Gypsum on hand. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is used to add permanent hardness to your brewing water in the form of calcium ions, which will increase the hop perception in your beer.

1 gram of Calcium Sulfate in 1 gallon of water changes the salt levels by 61.5 ppm calcium, 147.5 ppm sulfate and adds 153.5 ppm to the hardness. "

 

[Nagorg]

I always use Gypsum. Where I live, my water is very soft with higher levels of sodium than desired for beer due to the softening process. So I blend with DI and use Brun'water to calculate the mineral additions and shoot for 50ppm or higher CC.

So not to make this a water chemistry thread, the process' I use help me produce very clear IPA; the way it should be!

 

[Schlenkerla]

I always use Gypsum. Where I live, my water is very soft with higher levels of sodium than desired for beer due to the softening process. So I blend with DI and use Brun'water to calculate the mineral additions and shoot for 50ppm or higher CC.

So not to make this a water chemistry thread, the process' I use help me produce very clear IPA; the way it should be!

I'm with you. I wasn't trying to go off topic. My thought was to clarity and the annoyance that I have with my young beers. I do wonder how many of these cloudy beers wouldn't remain that way if the water was harder or is it a prerequisite?

More importantly, since we do want hoppy IPAs, using gypsum to get harder water makes it's more like the style this thread talks about, the Traditional English Style India Pale Ale.

As I said earlier, it's not something I really paid attention to per say. I should though.