Make IPA Clear Again

[snarf7]

Chefs and gastronomes are fond of telling us that we “eat with our eyes,” and I agree. Why would I want to eat something that looks nasty, or prepared in a dirty kitchen, but tastes amazing? I don’t. How food (and drink, presumably) is prepared and presented is paramount to our appreciation of how it tastes.

You're absolutely right and it's something you should always consider when building a recipe. Imagine being served a pale crystal clear stout, wouldn't that be odd and off-putting? The combination of the 2 senses being executed perfectly is magical. But the counterpoint to that is that taste will always trump appearance. For example, I've had bbq so good you'd sell your family for it and it was served from a hole in the wall joint with plywood on the walls on a plastic plate piled with meat and sides. One bite and you don't give a feck what it looks like.

The other thing that's important to chefs is 'balance', you want to balance the various flavors, textures, temperatures, colors. You want your dishes to pair well with each other and with the beers and wines you serve so that the entire experience is harmonious. I'd argue that the whole West Coast bitter hop bomb trend was much worse than the current haze trend...nothing like a mouth full of bitter to blow out your palate and make you unable to taste anything else.

Note: I like many west coast IPAs, I also like many NEIPAs and British style IPAs as well, they're all unique IMO but none of them are good when taken to extremes, you gotta have balance.

 

[Dog House Brew]

The problem I have the the NEIPA/Haze is the balance of the beer. Everyone I buy tastes virtually the same. I’m fine w haze. I’m fine with names or whatever, just give me a harmonious beer. One that makes me want more than 1. I think some bitterness goes a long way in what I think would balance this style for me. I get the attraction to them.

 

[applescrap]

But they aren't really "hoppy". I think the accepted term is "juicy"... And that's exactly what they look like; JUICE!

Juicier the better!

 

[applescrap]

I will not embrace them. They have invaded the IPA space. I have to be leery of trying new beers now because of them; they are everywhere!

Now I have to look for key words that give a clue that its a hazy mess since I cant rely on "NEIPA" to be used. I've been bit more than once by this and sorely disappointed when my glass became full of what looks like OJ. Oskar Blues Can-O-Bliss became a Can-O-Mess and I gave away the rest of the sixer.

On the other hand, now if I brew a beer with a clarity problem I just tell folks its New England style and they nod in acceptance. lol

Hmm, You mention can o bliss. I paid 7.99 for the 6 of it at king soopers. I didn't think it was very good either and it was a reminder you pay for what you get. The burly oak lost ipa I paid 17 99 for 4 of in philly last weekend were good. So was the crystal waters stout at the same price.

I agree tap take over is lame. I am different in that I have very few dislikes. The only one I can think of is chilli in beer. Other than that game on, massive amounts too, of chocolate, coffee,vanilla,fruit, French toast, whatever. Weldwerks put out a choc, strawberry, vanilla neapolitan ice cream sour. It was so freaking good!!! I know sounds horrible but it was really balanced in flavor. I think it was clear.

 

[Nagorg]

So many good IPA's of varying degrees of balance between malt and hops. But they all keep a common theme of hop character inclusive of the bittering, flavor and aroma senses... And... They range from brilliantly clear to slightly hazy generally due to a large dry hop.

But I dont get any traditional IPA character from the NEIPA's I've tasted. (several tasted unintentionally from a time before I learned to ask if its hazy...) Yet I see glasses everywhere full of a yucky looking muck of a beer and cringe at thought of folks thinking that's it what makes a good IPA.

I dont care if people like the beers and want to drink them or brew them. Carry on with these things.. I just dont understand how this became an accepted "style" associated with IPA... I truly think these cloudy, fruit bombs need a style of their own without the IPA association. Lets MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Everyone I buy tastes virtually the same.

I agree with this statement. Living in New England and being here at the start of this craze I have been able to watch as the beers have morphed over the years. What started out as slightly hazy has now become more of a murk. I believe that this started because people/brewers thought the haze is what makes the beer great and maybe it does to some degree. So if some haze is good wouldn't MORE be better?? So now you have brewers pushing the envelope trying to get beer as hazy as they can. I do enjoy the style but as DHB stated its very difficult to tell one of these beers from another now. I honestly believe that i could pick out Heady, Focal Banger or Crusher from a line up based on taste alone. However at other breweries you get a flight of 4 or 5 of their NEIPAs and they all taste pretty much the same with no well defined stand outs.

What is bothering me the most about this craze is the lack of variety that most breweries have these days. Variety is what the craft beer industry was built on. If they're only pushing one style of beer where does that leave us?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

What is bothering me the most about this craze is the lack of variety that most breweries have these days. Variety is what the craft beer industry was built on. If they're only pushing one style of beer where does that leave us?

As a homebrewer trying to figure out what aspects of an NEIPA I like but knowing that I am not a huge fan of Simcoe and Citra (or at least not a fan when they they are not in balance) I feel like I am left on my own to figure out alternative hops. It really is amazing how much Citra and Simcoe has invaded so many commercial IPAs (both West Coast and NEIPA). So many NEIPAs are overloaded with Citra and Moasic hops that they tend to overlap in flavor.

I am not posting this looking for suggestions for hops (I have several hops picked out for hop sampler batches) or looking for people to point out NEIPAs brewed with other hops (yes they exist, just as an extreme minority). I am just sure if you spend a little time looking up gold medal winning and commercial clone recipes, the vast majority of them will have Citra and/or Simcoe.

 

[snarf7]

I dont care if people like the beers and want to drink them or brew them. Carry on with these things.. I just dont understand how this became an accepted "style" associated with IPA... I truly think these cloudy, fruit bombs need a style of their own without the IPA association. Lets MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

"Accepted Style"? Are you for real? What you consider 'accepted' didn't exist in America prior to around 1980. We had American IPAs but they were nothing like what anyone would consider an IPA today. How boring would it be if beer stayed the same always and never changed or evolved or tried new things? Hell why even have forums like this if only to be so rigid? If you want to argue that the fruity/hazy type should be it's own subset of IPAs then you'll get no argument from me but to suggest they're somehow not part of the IPA category is silly IMO.

Do me favor. Next time you're at your beer store do a little mix and match six pack. Add a dunkels bock, a dopplebock, a helles, an eisbock and a weizenbock (ok that's only 5, so pick something else German to go with the theme They're all bocks but they're all uniquely their own style and they wouldn't exist today if the Germans had been as rigid as you are on this.
I dunno, to me a lot of this sounds like the whole hipster "I was drinking IPAs before they were cool, these kids today don't know what's up!" type of thing.

I like good beer. Full stop. If it's hazy and delicious I'm happy, if its crystal clear and delicious I'm happy. It's much more important to nail the balancing act to get all the pieces to play well together (bitter + fruit + malt etc) than clarity.

 

[Nagorg]

If you want to argue that the fruity/hazy type should be it's own subset of IPAs then you'll get no argument from me but to suggest they're somehow not part of the IPA category is silly IMO.

Its already part of the IPA category. And yes, I suggest that it shouldn't be. I can accept it as a style but it needs its own category outside from IPA.

And I like good beer too and am happy that you and others like the glass-o-muck. Lets just not call it IPA!

 

[wepeeler]

But they aren't really "hoppy". I think the accepted term is "juicy"... And that's exactly what they look like; JUICE!

The hoppy flavor is often balanced by the use of a lot of grain. Most of the big boy neipas (Tree House, for example) are upwards of 7% and higher. They still use a ton of hops, but it's because they use a ton of grain. You can get very bitter neipas, but the masses want a smooth, easy drinker, with a lot of hop character. Don't be afraid of evolution! Doesn't mean you have to love hazy beer, but the style is fantastic, when done well.

That being said, I have still not come across a crystal clear "juicy" ipa, although there are quite a few commercial breweries marketing them. Seems like the haze contributes to the juicy flavor.

 

[Jag75]

Theres a big difference in hazy and a glass o muck . Hazy doesnt bother me . I would not drink a glass o muck . I can assure you there is no muck here .

 

[Nagorg]

 

[Beerwildered]

Do me favor. Next time you're at your beer store do a little mix and match six pack. Add a dunkels bock, a dopplebock, a helles, an eisbock and a weizenbock (ok that's only 5, so pick something else German to go with the theme They're all bocks but they're all uniquely their own style and they wouldn't exist today if the Germans had been as rigid as you are on this.

Ok. Two points to make here:

1) the fact that you’ve listed 5 bocks by their subcategory name proves the point. All I see the OP asking for is clarity in the category. IPA isn’t descriptive enough. When I order an IPA and get a NEIPA or Hazy IPA, I’m disappointed. The least we can do is get more descriptive in our craft for the sake of those who are looking for guidance.

2) when it comes to Germans and beer, nobody is more rigid. See also: Reinheitsgebot. Find me another culture that has instituted a purity law for beer, and I’ll drink a gallon of infected, pellicle-laden nastiness.

 

[plazola86]

If you guys are drinking cups full of yeast then you're going to a ****** brewery. A well made "hazy IPA" is way more complex in every aspect than a regular "old west coast IPA". I do agree they are everywhere but honestly 3/4 of them are crap.

 

[schematix]

Hazy, yeasty, hop sludgy.... It all grosses me out the same.

Filter that ****.

 

[Jag75]

View attachment 618489

I feel honored you took the time to work with my photo

 

[snarf7]

1) the fact that you’ve listed 5 bocks by their subcategory name proves the point. All I see the OP asking for is clarity in the category.

You probably should read what OP wrote first before replying, it kind of invalidates your whole argument. I was responding to his comments saying that they should not even have any part of the IPA designation, specifically:

Maybe they just dont like IPA? Maybe they really just prefer fruit juice instead... I think its fine that they like that and I do too sometimes. Just dont call it IPA.

and

I dont care if people like the beers and want to drink them or brew them. Carry on with these things.. I just dont understand how this became an accepted "style" associated with IPA... I truly think these cloudy, fruit bombs need a style of their own without the IPA association.

 

[Cantina De Jefe]

Git yer Tom Brady lovin hazey **** off my damn lawn!

 

[snarf7]

This is what I'm drinking now. It's delicious, it's balanced and it's certainly not a yeast smoothie. It's not clear, but it's not opaque either, sorta translucent. The haze in this particular venture comes from the dry hops and the 1lb of wheat I added to the bill. So according to the haters, is this not an IPA?

 

[MrTimV]

Question, where does everyone land on white IPA?
Had a couple, delicious but definitely not see through.

Although distinctly labelled as being a white IPA not just "IPA".

 

[ong]

I absolutely love the massive juice bombs. That said, I’ve had very few commercial examples — almost all homebrewed. I get that it might not be to everyone’s taste, but this is exactly what I have always wanted hoppy beers to taste like. I don’t really care if they’re clear or hazy or murky, as long as I get that insanely appealing aroma and flavor.

 

[Beerwildered]

You probably should read what OP wrote first before replying, it kind of invalidates your whole argument. I was responding to his comments saying that they should not even have any part of the IPA designation, specifically:



and

Maybe dial back from a rolling boil to a simmer?

I read it. All of it.

I get that OP doesn’t want IPA associated with the hazy stuff. I read that. And I understand it.

What I was responding to was your use of five bock subs as a means of educating the OP on how true diversity in sub categories can exist while still remaining true to the larger category. I believe that you were trying to convince OP that there was room for Hazy IPA in the overall IPA category - much like Helles and Dopplebock are different but still “Bock.” If I misunderstood, please clarify.

I was suggesting that this isn’t descriptive enough and that we can do better. If I didn’t make my point with enough clarity, I can only blame the fact that I was typing on the train after a long day with my kids in NYC.

 

[snarf7]

What I was responding to was your use of five bock subs as a means of educating the OP on how true diversity in sub categories can exist while still remaining true to the larger category. I believe that you were trying to convince OP that there was room for Hazy IPA in the overall IPA category - much like Helles and Dopplebock are different but still “Bock.” If I misunderstood, please clarify.

Nope you got it...but you musta mised this part though:

If you want to argue that the fruity/hazy type should be it's own subset of IPAs then you'll get no argument from me but to suggest they're somehow not part of the IPA category is silly IMO.

I have no issues with qualifying the 'type' of IPA it is but to suggest it is not part of the overall style is just absurd IMO. I don't think personal taste is a valid reason for excluding a beer from it's category. Hell, I can't stand all these heavily flavored stouts that taste like chocolate milkshakes or a Starbucks mocha-nilla-frappachino but I'm not going to try to argue that they're not stouts.

 

[grampamark]

Aren't we all homebrewers here? Why do we care what the hipsters are drinking this week? We can make the beers we like and drink them happily, while watching the dazed and confused juice-bomb-of-the-week crowd run madly off in all directions, searching for the Next Big Thing.

Brew what you like, drink what you brew. Problem solved.

 

[Gravitysucks]

So what I've gotten from this thread is that:
1: Any beer that anyone likes is a great beer.
2: That Americans have taken a traditionally British style of beer and perverted it to the point that it bears no resemblance to the original.
3: Anything Americans brew can be called an IPA if only because it's appeals to the man bun, skinny jean wearing hipsters with their permanent boutique two day growth beards who think it's really cool to say "I drink IPAs" , or because the brewers weren't able to come up with original names for the style of their brews that they thought millennials could easily spell.

In case it isn't obvious, this is sarcasm...

 

[Nagorg]

The haze in this particular venture comes from the dry hops and the 1lb of wheat I added to the bill. So according to the haters, is this not an IPA?

So did you brew a White IPA or a NEIPA? Either way, I'd say that the degree of haze is beyond what should be considered a flaw for an IPA. Haze from a large dry hop really shouldnt cloud a beer to that extent. Pliny the Elder is massively dry hoped yet maintains clarity.

White IPA's by name haven't really taken over taps and shelves like NEIPA. If they had, perhaps that style would be included in this thread too. Adding a little wheat for mouthfeel is one thing but adding so much that affects clarity? Doesn't that much of a change in the grist start looking like a different beer altogether?

If all you have to do is have a lot of hops in a recipe to make it an IPA then is a Hoppy Brown Ale really a Brown IPA? Should a highly hopped Imperial Stout be a Stout IPA?

 

[BBQB]

I don’t want to live in a world that doesn’t have NEIPAs in it.
That being said, this is fun thread to follow. I so don’t give a crap that IPA is in the name NEIPA

 

[applescrap]

...glass-o-hops...

Ftfy

 

[applescrap]

What do you think of this one?

 

[day_trippr]

wtf

It's averaging a 4.26 on Untapped.
There is no God...