Make IPA Clear Again

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
deadwolfbones said:
My latest homebrew, Lazy Haze:

dsc_5457.jpg

dsc_5449-1.jpg

dsc_5463.jpg


As delicious as it is beautiful.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
Looks fantastic
 
Nagorg said:
Okay, a little reference to the Brewers Association style guidelines...

First, I think (hope) that everyone agrees that IPA actually started as an English export to... India. So if there were a good baseline of what the style should be, an English IPA should be about as close as it gets.

From the BA on American-Style India Pale Ale:
-------------------------------------------------
American-Style India Pale Ale

  • Color: Gold to copper
  • Clarity: Chill haze is acceptable at low temperatures. Hop haze is allowable at any temperature.
  • Perceived Malt Aroma & Flavor: Low-medium to medium maltiness is present in aroma and flavor
  • Perceived Hop Aroma & Flavor: Hop aroma and flavor is high, exhibiting floral, fruity (berry, tropical, stone fruit and other), sulfur/diesel-like, onion-garlic-catty, citrusy, piney or resinous character that was originally associated with American-variety hops. Hops with these attributes now also originate from countries other than the USA.
  • Perceived Bitterness: Medium-high to very high
  • Fermentation Characteristics: Fruity-estery aroma and flavor may be low to high. Diacetyl should not be perceived.
  • Body: Medium-low to medium
  • Additional notes: The use of water with high mineral content may result in a crisp, dry beer rather than a malt-accentuated version. Sugar adjuncts may be used to enhance body and balance. Hops of varied origins may be used for bitterness or for approximating traditional American character.
-------------------------------------------------

With me still? So far the two styles are fairly similar in Color, Clarity as well as malt and hop aroma/flavor and perceived bitterness. Subtle differences for sure..


But then out of left field comes what looks like a completely different beer...

From the BA on Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale:
-------------------------------------------------
Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale

  • Color: Straw to deep gold
  • Clarity: Low to very high degree of cloudiness is typical of these beers. Starch, yeast, hop, protein and/or other compounds contribute to a wide range of hazy appearance within this category.
  • Perceived Malt Aroma & Flavor: Low to low-medium malt aroma and flavor may be present
  • Perceived Hop Aroma & Flavor: Medium-high to very high hop aroma and flavor are present, with attributes typical of hops from any origin
  • Perceived Bitterness: Medium-low to medium
  • Fermentation Characteristics: Low to medium fruity-estery aroma and flavor may be present, but are usually overwhelmed by hop fruitiness. Diacetyl should not be perceived.
  • Body: Medium-low to medium-high. Perceived silky or full mouthfeel may contribute to overall flavor profile.
  • Additional notes: Grist may include a small amount of oat, wheat or other adjuncts to promote haziness. Descriptors such as “juicy” are often used to describe the taste and aroma hop-derived attributes present in these beers.
-------------------------------------------------

How did this ever get lumped in with "IPA"? Likely for marketing purposes since IPA has been pretty popular lately. And because of these things its taking over what folks think an IPA should be and prompting an acceptance of what would be considered flaws in most other styles.

Just saying... Can we get these beers in their own non-IPA category and MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN?
Click to expand...

When comparing the AIPA and Hazy IPA, the malt taste and aroma are essentially the same. Same with the hop aroma and flavor. Literally the only difference is the haziness. And even then, hop cloudiness is acceptable at any temperature in an AIPA!

I think your blinders are keeping you from enjoying a great style. Evolution and adaptation is key and necessary in every facet of life. Beer not excluded.
 
wepeeler said:
When comparing the AIPA and Hazy IPA, the malt taste and aroma are essentially the same. Same with the hop aroma and flavor. Literally the only difference is the haziness. And even then, hop cloudiness is acceptable at any temperature in an AIPA!

I think your blinders are keeping you from enjoying a great style. Evolution and adaptation is key and necessary in every facet of life. Beer not excluded.
Click to expand...

I don’t think this is true at all. Hazy IPAs have a very different flavor (lower bitterness but more steeped hop character) and mouthfeel to me. It sounds like you’re saying they’re just WCIPAs that look funny.
 
I don't quite understand the uproar. IPA are, historically, known for what? They're hoppy ales.

We know that hoppiness can be manifested in several ways. Early boil additions lend bitterness with little flavor. The later the hops are added, the less they contribute bitterness and the more they contribute flavor and aroma.

So, is a 40 IBU beer with intense hop flavor and aroma less "hoppy" than a 90 IBU beer that focuses more on bitter than flavor and aroma? Nope...it's just using the hops in a different way. They're both hoppy as hell. One is bitter, the other is flavorful. Some NEIPAs are also pretty damn bitter (60-70 IBUs).

So calling it an IPA makes sense to me...it's a hoppy ale, just as IPAs are known for.

As far as the haziness being a flaw...is it a flaw to have a hazy Hefeweizen? Nope, it's a normal side effect of the brewing process. So is a hazy NEIPA flawed? Nope, just like the hefe, it's a normal side effect of the brewing process. From what I've read, the original NEIPA brewers worked hard to get rid of the haze, but the flavor and aroma were not there.

So we have a hoppy beer that that is hazy and we're calling it a New England IPA...makes sense to me.

Regarding "balance". Balance is in the eye of the beholder. Which beer is balanced....Stella Artois or Bells Two Hearted? Radically different beers, both considered pretty good beers. Is neither balanced (and thus poor beers)? Both balanced (but "for the style") and both are good? The answer is that there is no single proper "balance". A "balanced" beer is one that mixes flavors in a way that is appealing. Clearly NEIPAs are appealing given the wild popularity and takeover of the IPA taps, so I'd propose they're "balanced" (for their style).

So all this whining is just some people who don't like the beer's flavor, looks and/or categorization...all of which are fine. I guess we better get off their lawn.
 
Don't like Hazy IPAs? Then don't drink them!

I love hazy IPAs, but I also still love clear ones. To me clarity and staying true-to-style isn't a top priority when I drink or brew beer. Obviously that would matter if I was entering competitions, but I'm not.
 
Hwk-I-St8 said:
Regarding "balance". Balance is in the eye of the beholder. Which beer is balanced....Stella Artois or Bells Two Hearted? Radically different beers, both considered pretty good beers. Is neither balanced (and thus poor beers)? Both balanced (but "for the style") and both are good? The answer is that there is no single proper "balance". A "balanced" beer is one that mixes flavors in a way that is appealing. Clearly NEIPAs are appealing given the wild popularity and takeover of the IPA taps, so I'd propose they're "balanced" (for their style).
Click to expand...

You're sort of confounding different aspects of it here but you still came to the correct conclusion. There's always a balance point, but it's not going to be the same across all styles...to do so would be like judging Champagne and Cabarnet Sauvignon alongside each other with the same ruler, they are completely different in color, sweetness, fruit, carbonation etc.

I think the bane of the craft brewing world is this obsession with more, more, MORE! Whether it's more bittering hops or more flavoring hops, more alcohol, more flavorings whatever the trend happens to be it inevitably goes off the rails and you wind up with something undrinkable. If that's what you like then knock yourself out, but it's not balanced and it's not something I want to drink.
 
ong said:
I don’t think this is true at all. Hazy IPAs have a very different flavor (lower bitterness but more steeped hop character) and mouthfeel to me. It sounds like you’re saying they’re just WCIPAs that look funny.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or tell anyone they are wrong. I'm only pointing out the technical aspects of each beer as outlined by the BJCP.

I've been lucky enough to taste well over 100 neipas thanks to living in New England. Slapping a neipa tag on a beer almost guarantees it will sell. At least the first go around. People pick up on the really good stuff. I've had them range from clear, to slightly hazy, to what looks like liquid yeast and every where in between. I've also had them taste like juice, and I've had them taste so bitter it seems like I'm biting into a hop pellet. There's so much variation, and people just taste beer differently. Among my group of friends, I'm the one that prefers less bitter. And there have been times when I think a beer isn't that bitter, and my friends will tell me it's a bitter bomb! So much for perception...

Onto a regular pale ale or ipa or apa. West Coast vs East Coast is dramatically different. West Coast is more bitter up front. Piney, yet citrus, even fruity. Usually clear. Here on the East Coast, pales tend to have much softer bitterness. It's still up front, but the malts tend to come through a bit more and even things out. I was never a WC fan, but I can appreciate the style, especially on a scorching hot day.

As for haze. This is what polarizes people. Old school = no haze. Haze = lazy beer. I've heard it over and over again. That's just opinion. Opinion's can be held on to for too long for whatever reason. Evolution in beer is what made the neipa possible. The last 5 years have been amazing for the New England beer scene. CT, where I'm from, has seen the number of breweries jump from 25 to over 100, with another 20 slated to open in 2019. They ALL have a neipa on tap. It took some of them awhile to jump on the wagon, and each brewery does it differently, but they all have one (or more) on tap. Not saying they are all good (me being a beer snob doesn't help their case) That being said, most other styles tend to have haze! Not sure if it's chill haze, or no filtering, or rushing beer, but I've had pilsners and blonde ales that have haze. Not juicy fruit haze, but they sure aren't clear. And the general consumer has no clue. For us, we know better, but we still drink it. Would you honestly order a blonde ale and push it away it tasted ok but had haze. I would guess no. Neipas are hazy as a byproduct of production. Lots of flaked adjuncts, lots of dry hopping and the use of low flocculating yeasts. I've seen people argue about the use of flaked adjuncts (both for and against), but as home brewers, they are an easy way to increase mouthfeel, and what some people believe to be added hop flavor.

Neipas are absolutely ipas. Having haze as a byproduct of the recipe shouldn't be frowned upon, IMO. I guess if you don't like it, you don't have to. But to flat out say because it's hazy it isn't a neipa isn't true. You technically could let it sit in the keg for 6 months and have it clear out. But then you'd lose the intended hop flavor. At what cost? To have it fit firmly into the ipa category? No thanks.
 
wepeeler said:
Would you honestly order a blonde ale and push it away it tasted ok but had haze.
Click to expand...

Uh... Define haze again? A blonde ale should be clear. If I was served a "blonde ale" that I couldn't see through, yes its going back regardless of taste!

wepeeler said:
Neipas are absolutely ipas. Having haze as a byproduct of the recipe shouldn't be frowned upon, IMO.
Click to expand...

Again we need to define haze. The examples that have prompted this thread aren't simply affected from dry-hop induced haze or chill haze... They are excessively turbid and resemble a glass of fruit juice. And I should really be mentioning the lack of bitterness more as another characteristic that moves most of these out of the IPA category.

Call them Juiceweizen, FruitWit or anything but IPA. On that note, why not just call them Hefeweizen? Those beers are "hazy", have a lot of wheat in them and have fruity character...
 
Nagorg said:
Uh... Define haze again? A blonde ale should be clear. If I was served a "blonde ale" that I couldn't see through, yes its going back regardless of taste!



Again we need to define haze. The examples that have prompted this thread aren't simply affected from dry-hop induced haze or chill haze... They are excessively turbid and resemble a glass of fruit juice. And I should really be mentioning the lack of bitterness more as another characteristic that moves most of these out of the IPA category.

Call them Juiceweizen, FruitWit or anything but IPA. On that note, why not just call them Hefeweizen? Those beers are "hazy", have a lot of wheat in them and have fruity character...
Click to expand...
Man you really don't like hazy beers. Tell the kids to stay off your lawn
beat_dead_horse2.jpeg
 
I'm not really sure why everyone is so hung up on the style thing. I know that American IPA is its own thing, but last time I checked we weren't exporting a lot of hoppy beer to India. OG of IPAs before 1900 (after that they tended to take a pretty sharp turn downward) were in the 1060 range. Not to mention it was fairly likely that they had brettanomyces characteristics whether bottled or in a cask, as they were typically stored in a cask extensively before bottling.

Why do we want IPA to be clear again? Personal taste? That's fine, find them, support (i.e. drink :) ) them. Is it an issue of style? If so, what does that matter outside of the realm of competition? Maybe we should call them hazy IPAs or whatever to know what we're ordering at the bar, but many NEIPAs do exhibit noticeable bitterness.

I suppose I can get on board with the complaint that the market is oversaturated at the time. But people are saying just NOW we have a ton of mediocre IPAs? C'mon, that's been craft beer for like the last decade.
 
grampamark said:
A seriously underexposed photo?
Click to expand...
Apparently it was so under exposed that you missed the beer and its relevance to the topic so you had no choice but to reply with a snarky response that offers nothing other than either a back handed insult or a sense of humor similar to my cousins. I suspect the latter and you think you are funny. Good on you gramps!

Actually ot this beer is somewhere in the middle and I remain genuinely curious where those that have drank it see it in this discussion.
 
"in the middle" of what?
Looks like it's a slightly cloudy IPA per the reviews on BA. If we take the "It almost smells like a light citrus hardwood floor cleaner" comment as an outlier it seems fairly generic...

Cheers! ;)
 
applescrap said:
Apparently it was so under exposed that you missed the beer and its relevance to the topic so you had no choice but to reply with a snarky response that offers nothing other than either a back handed insult or a sense of humor similar to my cousins. I suspect the latter and you think you are funny. Good on you gramps!

Actually ot this beer is somewhere in the middle and I remain genuinely curious where those that have drank it see it in this discussion.
Click to expand...

Lighten up Francis-and say hello to your cousin for me. :cool:
 
It's not weak at all. Clocked in at 15.3 Plato. Should finish around 2.5-3 Plato and near 7% ABV.

Using 32oz of hops (1lb Azacca and 1lb Amarillo) and 4oz of Idaho-7 hop hash.

4oz Azacca @ 50m
4oz Amarillo @ 15m
4oz 50/50 blend @ 10m
4oz 50/50 blend @ 5m
10oz 50/50 blend @ 170F for 30m
2oz hop hash @ 170F for 30m

And i'm planning to dry hop with another 6oz of 50/50 blend and 2oz of hop hash.

Going to be epic, and only slightly hazy.
 
I am still MAD that you west coast hippies adulturated your "IPAs" with filthy American hops, and characterless "clean" yeasts. I heard you are not even bothering to age them in oak barrels on a hot ship for 6 months? If that was not disgraceful enough, now you east coast hipsters have the cheek to make your IPAs hazy and start using characterful british yeasts again?

Make IPA exclusively barrel aged again!
 

Similar threads

P
What happened to IPA?
2
Replies
49
Views
4K
Clint Yeastwood
Clint Yeastwood
InspectorJon
Making clear IPA again
2 3
Replies
112
Views
14K
HM-2
HM-2
HM-2
New England IPA "Drenched In [Hop]": Single-Hop Hazy IPA "Framework"
Replies
2
Views
680
HM-2
HM-2
T
Yeast contribution to the "haze craze" of the New England IPA movement
Replies
6
Views
2K
eric19312
eric19312
55x11
Haze Mystery / East Coast IPA type haze
Replies
8
Views
3K
55x11
55x11
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top