duncan_disorderly
Well-Known Member
Suggests it's not S-33, to me. Unless MJ is being really perverse, or clueless.
Lallemand Windsor vs Lallemand London ESB?
- Thread starter Protos
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
OP
OP
Protos
Die Schwarzbier Polizei
Based solely on package specifications, I thought initially M10 could be a version of the heat-tolerant Mauribrew 514. However, fermentation behaviour, degree of attenuation and subsequent tasting convinced me it's a London/S-33 strain.
Those package descriptions could be quite misleading sometimes. For example, they advertise M10 as a perfect choice for a Pseudo Lager if fermented cool. I tried to, fermenting at 15C and then lagering for a month, and all what I got was a typical subdued London ale, not Lagery at all. It strongly reminds me of S-33 which is described by the producer as "Belgian" even though it has nothing common with the true Belgian yeasts. It looks not unike a conspiracy plot among producers and retailers to cover the true nature of the poor innocent EDME strain under all imaginable marketing disguises
I wonder, why?
So, the claimed heat-tolerance could well turn out to be same advertising rubbish as its nonexistent Lager qualities.
Another solid argument for M10 and S-33 being the same (or very close) strain is the price. Both are the cheapest options among all commercially available dry yeasts.
Those package descriptions could be quite misleading sometimes. For example, they advertise M10 as a perfect choice for a Pseudo Lager if fermented cool. I tried to, fermenting at 15C and then lagering for a month, and all what I got was a typical subdued London ale, not Lagery at all. It strongly reminds me of S-33 which is described by the producer as "Belgian" even though it has nothing common with the true Belgian yeasts. It looks not unike a conspiracy plot among producers and retailers to cover the true nature of the poor innocent EDME strain under all imaginable marketing disguises
I wonder, why?So, the claimed heat-tolerance could well turn out to be same advertising rubbish as its nonexistent Lager qualities.
Another solid argument for M10 and S-33 being the same (or very close) strain is the price. Both are the cheapest options among all commercially available dry yeasts.
Last edited:
Yeah, that’s because it’s probably really Fermentis K97. Koln came afterwards as Lallemand’s attempt at an equivalent to K97.
BRY-97 is very similar to US-05. BRY-97 takes longer to start but finishes fast and is more neutral / less fruity compared with US-05.
OP
OP
Protos
Die Schwarzbier Polizei
OK, then I better stick to US-05 in the rare cases I go American. Peachy whiff is what I love most in this yeast.
OP
OP
Protos
Die Schwarzbier Polizei
Lots of pear in Lal and MJ. None in K-97.
Noticeable acidity from K-97 (similar to S-04). None from Lal and MJ.
Franktalk
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2019
- Messages
- 601
- Reaction score
- 427
Dave, I have to disagree with you here. I have brewed extensively with both K97 and Koln, (not side-by-side) and they don't seem similar in any way. K97 will begin fermentation quickly where Koln will lag because the pitch rates differ greatly. K97 is clean to the point of being cleaner than S189, thought the latter is most definitely a lager, and Koln is fruity with pear esters, and I also get lemon from it. Also, Koln does not have that bitterness that K97 has. To me, these two are miles from each other.
duncan_disorderly
Well-Known Member
I think Dave is saying that K97 and M54 are probably the same. Not K97 and Koln.
duncan_disorderly
Well-Known Member
I think Dave is trying to match similar strains and the colour coding indicates the source of the matching criteria. Some are closer than others, basically.
I am saying that if they are on the same row, they might not be exactly equivalent but are "close enough for most intents & purposes".
The color coding in purple should be pretty accurate. In yellow, it's an either-or situation. The orange is essentially meaningless and I might remove it. The red is based on a separate genomic test focusing on every/all "Chico" strain. These aren't all exactly the same, and have some key differences worth consideration.
The color coding in purple should be pretty accurate. In yellow, it's an either-or situation. The orange is essentially meaningless and I might remove it. The red is based on a separate genomic test focusing on every/all "Chico" strain. These aren't all exactly the same, and have some key differences worth consideration.
Franktalk
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2019
- Messages
- 601
- Reaction score
- 427
duncan_disorderly
Well-Known Member
Only when I'm sober. Which i currently am! So, here are my MJ thoughts...Oh, I see, Dave. Thanks! By the way, do you have duncan_disorderly on retainer?
M15 - probably Windsor
M42 - Nottingham
M44 - Bry-97
M36 - Blend, maybe Notty/Windsor. Or similar.
M29 - Belle Saison
M31 - Diastaticus, gives banana, so maybe a blend of WB-06 and something else
M41 - Diastaticus, so maybe a blend. Belle or BE-134 and Notty, maybe.
M47 - Non-diastaticus so not WB-06. Lalbrew Abbaye most likely.
M20 - Don't know despite using it several times. :Lalbrew Wit?
M21 - No idea, not used it.
M54 - Mauribrew Lager perhaps? Dunno.
M76 - MJ says it's pastorianus + cerevisiae, so a blend. Diamond & Notty, maybe, Lallemand promotes that blend.
M84 - MJ says it's cerevisiae, so not a lager strain. Not used this one.
M12 - Lalbrew Voss
M66 - No idea, possibly Lalbrew New England?
Similar threads
