Hot Break

[ABrother]

I was just thinking about the boil and it occurred to me what about the boil causes the hot break? If it's temp then what temp is required because it doesn't seem likely it has to be 212F since very few of us are probably boiling every batch at standard atmospheric conditions. If it is temp then could the wort just be raised to that temp and held like the mash for the period of time for the hop oils to be extracted.

Hope this isn't to basic for this group, just like to get some insights and understand better what's going on in the boil kettle.

 

[shawnstr71]

I am no expert, but have become a decent home brewer. I am always learning and am the point where I am ready to start trying to design my own recipes. That being said....
The hot break at the beginning of the boil is the gathering of the protiens in your wort. They eventually fall back into the boil. Or like I do....I make them submit to the mighty spray bottle! Lol
I am sure there are many people on here who can give you a more articulate or scientific answer. But that's what it is....protiens

 

[ajdelange]

The combination of heat and pH change in the boil cause proteins to coagulate just as the white of an egg coagulates when you poach it in hot water to which you have added vinegar. The details are complex but there are many papers on the subject. No, you don't have to be at 212 for the effect to take place.

 

[ABrother]

The combination of heat and pH change in the boil cause proteins to coagulate just as the white of an egg coagulates when you poach it in hot water to which you have added vinegar. The details are complex but there are many papers on the subject. No, you don't have to be at 212 for the effect to take place.

Could you suggest a few sources I could learn more about the science behind the hot break?

Also as I understand the boil it's two purposes are to cause the hot break so the protein can be removed and to extract or utilize the hops. So I guess what I'm really wondering is if the boil process can be accomplished without boiling? Are there other things going on there that I'm not aware of.?

 

[Pie_Man]

Also as I understand the boil it's two purposes are to cause the hot break so the protein can be removed and to extract or utilize the hops. So I guess what I'm really wondering is if the boil process can be accomplished without boiling? Are there other things going on there that I'm not aware of.?

Boiling also sanitizes things.

There are no-boil beer methods you can look in to. Besides not boiling, I don't know much about it as I am not interested in non-boiled beer. Check out the forum for info on no boil brewing.

 

[Hermit]

Could you suggest a few sources I could learn more about the science behind the hot break?

Also as I understand the boil it's two purposes are to cause the hot break so the protein can be removed and to extract or utilize the hops. So I guess what I'm really wondering is if the boil process can be accomplished without boiling? Are there other things going on there that I'm not aware of.?

It also drives of the precursers to DMS. The 'best' break I get is from canned wort starter. That is up around 250F.

 

[ABrother]

It also drives of the precursers to DMS. The 'best' break I get is from canned wort starter. That is up around 250F.

What is DMS?

I assume your canning your wort starter in a pressure canner to get to 250F?

 

[Pie_Man]

What is DMS?

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

The DMS precursor is called SMM. The more lightly kilned the grain, the more SMM, or the more DMS potential. Some brewers prefer 90 boils to ensure they boil off the SMM, especially when the recipe contains Pilsner malt.

 

[peterj]

I would think the bubbling and vigorous churning you get from a boil would help to bring all of the proteins together and coagulate them. And adding to what Hermit said I think the bubbling and churning are necessary to drive off DMS.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

Boiling also sanitizes things.

It's not really the act of boiling that sanitizes, it's the temperature that you get it up to. So a wort held just under boiling for an hour (say 211F at sea level) would be just as sanitized as a wort that was boiled for an hour (212F).

 

[Pie_Man]

It's not really the act of boiling that sanitizes, it's the temperature that you get it up to.

I realize that, but in my opinion, it is easier to say boiling than to list a specific temperature since changes in elevation impact the boiling point.

 

[peterj]

I realize that, but in my opinion, it is easier to say boiling than to list a specific temperature since changes in elevation impact the boiling point. Let's not be too pedantic about this.

I'm not being pedantic, it just seemed like you were implying that his scenario wouldn't work because it wouldn't sanitize the wort. But if he was bringing his wort up to temperatures that were hot enough to isomerize alpha acids then it would also be hot enough to pasteurize the wort.

 

[Pie_Man]

Right, there are other ways to sanitize things. Boiling being one of them.

 

[ajdelange]

The vigor of the boil is important because it improves flocculation, it mixes the hops around improving extraction and the steam carries off DMS precursors.

As for references Briggs, Hough, Stevens and Young and similar books are good.

 

[Hermit]

What is DMS?

I assume your canning your wort starter in a pressure canner to get to 250F?

Good assumption.

 

[trentm]

It also drives of the precursers to DMS. The 'best' break I get is from canned wort starter. That is up around 250F.

I have noticed that too. For starter media I brew up a 10 gallon batch and can it. Even after removing the hot and cold break as I would in a regular brewing session, there is a significant amount of break material in the jars after the pressure cooking process. I think the largest fraction is cold break as it mostly forms after the jars have cooled.