Converting to 3 Kettle Advice

[Haze Crazed]

I’ve been wanting to move to a 3 kettle set up with temp control mash. I currently have 15g & 20g mega pots. My thought was to turn the 15g to my HLT and the 20g as my boil kettle (not stuck on this just what I thought would be the easiest/most economical)

I figure precise temp control on HLT and Boil isn’t super critical if I have a temp controller on my mash run and my gauges will work fine for those. I want to add another 20g pot to complete my setup. I looked into HERMS but got concerned about with potential stuck mashes, losses, and figured if I go that direction I would we’d to have a temp controller for the HLT as well (I plan to keep HLT and BK propane, until I have more to invest).

Then I looked into RIMs and thought I’d get a blichmann G2, false bottom, RIMS rocket and flow meter. After being convinced I was going in this direction I realized some of my concerns mash would still be present and I would have more to clean. In addition by the time I added the RIMs rocket and flow meter/control to the G2 set up I was close to the cost of the surface. That’s when I landed on the Blichmann surface for my mash run. I figured I would get a 20g surface and a brew commander to control mash temps. I would still recirculate during mash and have precise temp control. I’ve looked at spike and just feel like blichmann is the way to go. I’m open to advice. It’s a lot of money to spend. I love brewing as a hobby and have slowly got to the point I’m at over the years. Although when I tell my wife what I spent she will not agree.

Please let me know your opinions. Is there a better direction to go with my gear or with other options? (I generally BIAB now but want to have a 3 kettle setup so please do t suggest that)

*I plan on having 2 pumps and using 3 way valves so I don’t have to move hoses. I’ll install a Blichmann whirlpool arm in my boil kettle.

 

[Deadalus]

I have a 3 keggle 2 pump EHERMS. You won't need temperature control on the BK. I just have a power controller, 0-100%. That allows for simmering but the boil temp is fixed for your altitude. I have a PID to control temperature on the HLT. I have a PID on the mash tun but there's no heating element. Basically the PID just monitors the temperature. The mash recirculates through the HERMS coil in the HLT. If you kept it propane, I am not so familiar as much with the temperature controllers. If you were to direct fire the mash, you'd need three burners if you weren't going to move pots around. My, system, which is 30 amps, can only fire one element at a time. This is generally fine and doesn't particularly slow anything down because I don't reallly need to fire the BK until it starts to fill over the element anyway. Sparge water is already hot from being in the HLT. It's pretty simple to move hoses, hardly a chore but you could go that way if you wanted with the 3-way valves. The valves are more expensive and you'll have more hoses to clean but it's your rig.

How big a batch do you want to brew? I also considered I might move up to a 15 gallon batch but actually, I mostly brew 6 gallon batches and occasionally 10 gallons and that's plenty. The keggles get a little heavier each year.

 

[sibelman]

Best of luck as you consider your three-vessel options, @Haze Crazed . I've been a happy three vessel electric brewer for years.

Out of respect for his experience and wisdom, I feel I must point out @Bobby_M 's preference for BIAB over three-vessel in this HBT post.

 

[Bobby_M]

I’ve been wanting to move to a 3 kettle set up with temp control mash.

(not stuck on this just what I thought would be the easiest/most economical)

Please let me know your opinions. Is there a better direction to go with my gear or with other options? (I generally BIAB now but want to have a 3 kettle setup so please dont suggest that)

I think the most important thing to do, before you spend another dime, is to decide what you're trying to achieve. There is some mixed messaging in your post because a 3 vessel system is definitely not the "easiest/most economical". If your goal is to make brew day longer with more process overhead and equipment to maintain and clean, you'll get it with 3 vessels.

It's a typical misunderstanding that BIAB is a cave man operation with no control and 3 vessel brewing is a precise greased machine. It's just not true. Any system configuration can be a jury-rigged mess OR and fine-controlled engineering marvel.

This thing makes half barrel batches that win NHC silver medals (German Pilsner, Munich Dunkel, Pale Ale), several best of show titles and state brewing championships, and it holds mash temps within 1F. It's just one example of many.

What is it about your current BIAB process you don't like and want to improve on?

What is it about a 3-vessel system that makes you think it will fix that problem?

It's reasonable that there is a valid push towards 3-vessel brewing for some people, but I find many have fundamental misunderstandings around both system types that misinform a decision.

 

[Broken Crow]

I think the most important thing to do, before you spend another dime, is to decide what you're trying to achieve. There is some mixed messaging in your post because a 3 vessel system is definitely not the "easiest/most economical". If your goal is to make brew day longer with more process overhead and equipment to maintain and clean, you'll get it with 3 vessels.

It's a typical misunderstanding that BIAB is a cave man operation with no control and 3 vessel brewing is a precise greased machine. It's just not true. Any system configuration can be a jury-rigged mess OR and fine-controlled engineering marvel.

This thing makes half barrel batches that win NHC silver medals (German Pilsner, Munich Dunkel, Pale Ale), several best of show titles and state brewing championships, and it holds mash temps within 1F. It's just one example of many.
View attachment 840111


What is it about your current BIAB process you don't like and want to improve on?

What is it about a 3-vessel system that makes you think it will fix that problem?

It's reasonable that there is a valid push towards 3-vessel brewing for some people, but I find many have fundamental misunderstandings around both system types that misinform a decision.

Since you didn't mention this detail:

I’ll install a Blichmann whirlpool arm in my boil kettle.

..I'll be your shill: BrewHardware.com - High end, practical homebrewing hardware, accessories and ingredients for making beer, wine, mead, and cider.
Your True Bulkhead Spincycles beat all other options hands-down. Thanks for making them!
I've been working for a long time toward my own 3V rig, but both your systems and many posts on the subject have had me reconsidering and (since it takes me a very long time to do anything) I'm going to try configuring the hardware I already have as a quasi-clone of the popular BIAB system you sell and try it out to how it fits. As the OP already has the kettles, I'd suggest getting one pump and a bag and do likewise. The cost of a bag and maybe a false-bottom is peanuts to all the additional hardware for a full 3V rig.
I'll also mention; Unless you really need the pumping power, 5G batches do well with modest cheaper pumps, like the Topsflo TD5, or the 'Mark II' aka; "Pumpzilla" : OEM name: MP-15RM
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1836.htmhttps://www.brewhardware.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=false+bottom&Submit=

 

[sibelman]

Notwithstanding the above, OP wants to move away from BIAB and do three vessel brewing. He actually asked that we not pester him about the advantages of BIAB. I disregarded his request because of Bobby's evident passion on this subject. But it's hard to advise OP given lack of info about his pain points.

 

[Bobby_M]

Notwithstanding the above, OP wants to move away from BIAB and do three vessel brewing. He actually asked that we not pester him about the advantages of BIAB. I disregarded his request because of Bobby's evident passion on this subject. But it's hard to advise OP given lack of info about his pain points.

That's exactly right. I mean, people don't REALLY owe anyone an explanation about WHY they want a certain type of system and I'm always very clear at the shop that I'll build anything they want if they tell me to shut my mouth and take their money. I still feel compelled to play devil's advocate so that the best system lands in the hands of the brewer. I have sold a LOT of systems and have watched people with really deep pockets complicate themselves right out of the hobby.

 

[Haze Crazed]

That's exactly right. I mean, people don't REALLY owe anyone an explanation about WHY they want a certain type of system and I'm always very clear at the shop that I'll build anything they want if they tell me to shut my mouth and take their money. I still feel compelled to play devil's advocate so that the best system lands in the hands of the brewer. I have sold a LOT of systems and have watched people with really deep pockets complicate themselves right out of the hobby.

That's exactly right. I mean, people don't REALLY owe anyone an explanation about WHY they want a certain type of system and I'm always very clear at the shop that I'll build anything they want if they tell me to shut my mouth and take their money. I still feel compelled to play devil's advocate so that the best system lands in the hands of the brewer. I have sold a LOT of systems and have watched people with really deep pockets complicate themselves right out of the hobby.

Thank you all for your input. I honestly appreciate it and take no offense to suggesting BIAB. First I do not have deep pockets, I’ve been adding equipment to my arsenal over 6 years and am planning to add 1 more vessel, albeit an expensive one I’ve some off old equipment and saved money over the years. I don’t want to be judged on that.

That said I asked not to suggest it because I truly want 3V. Could I get the same efficiency out of 3V as BIAB yes. If not could I put a couple more pounds of grain in my recipes to compensate for $5 of grain vs $1000 for equipment yes. But I’ve been brewing for “a couple years” and I’ve always wanted a 3V system. Will I be the dope who hates all the cleaning and has to sell my system for 25% of what I paid on this site in 2 years and move back to BIAB, I hope not.

I’m not looking to make things more complicated as I know it seems. I want repeatability and I want 3V. Laugh at me as you will but it’s what I want. I was really hoping to get advise from people who had made the transition. Maybe hear there shortcomings and suggestions so I could limit mine. Hopefully get inside from them and make the best decisions I could. I haven’t bought anything yet. I just own the 2V megas that I currently have. I’m open to suggestions please keep them coming in. I hope this message isn’t off putting I don’t intend it to be. I’m seriously dealing opinions from brewers with more experience in this relm than me.

 

[Haze Crazed]

That's exactly right. I mean, people don't REALLY owe anyone an explanation about WHY they want a certain type of system and I'm always very clear at the shop that I'll build anything they want if they tell me to shut my mouth and take their money. I still feel compelled to play devil's advocate so that the best system lands in the hands of the brewer. I have sold a LOT of systems and have watched people with really deep pockets complicate themselves right out of the hobby.

Bobby I hope you don’t take offense to this either. I’ve met people that have awards with 2V and BIAB systems. And I know that’s attainable. At the moment I’m not looking to win awards or start a brewery. I’m happy with my profession and love the time I have with my family so I don’t want to give that up chasing a nano. I just want a 3V, if you have an offer to sell me the vessel I’m looking for at less than Blichmann will I’m all ears

 

[Deadalus]

So eventually you would like to go all electric and you want temperature control for the mash. You'll need some type of controller then. I took a look at the brew commander and surface to get a better idea as to what they do. I have a panel for my system that the PIDs are in. In my system, I could conceivably switch the panel out and use the brew commander (HLT) and Blichmanns power controller (BK). My pumps have switches. I would need two 240 outlets available to run both at the same time, or some way to switch between the two which could be as simple as unplugging one but I don't recommend that. Those two units cost about $800. The Brew Commander can run the Surface, or it could run a HLT with a HERMS, or maybe a RIMS system but honestly, I haven't studied that one much.

I'm not sure the Surface is the way to go because for 10 gallon batches you would need to oversize with the 20 gallon Surface. Maybe if you only fly sparged but I think you might top out for a high gravity 10 gallon batch. I fly sparge and have done some higher gravity 10 gallon batches but I have keggles. A batch sparge would be too much volume all at once in the 10. With the Surface, you would need something to heat your sparge water with, which could be your 15. I don't have a lot of 10 gallon recipes but the amount of sparge water is about 7-9 gallons. I think you might be able to do that during the mash with 120V and I'd guess if started at the same time as the strike water no problem. A propane burner ought to be able to crank it out in time as well. The Surface though is an expensive unit! The 20 gallon is $800 without a thermometer port and just one valve hole.

The Surface still has a false bottom, which still needs cleaning. I don't have to scrub the element on my HLT where the HERMS coil is. I only heat water in the HLT. I only clean it intermittently with any vigor, spray it out otherwise. A little cleaning but really minor. You could find a 15 gallon Blichmann mash tun on the FB Marketplace for $200-350 used. Probably a Spike one too. It's just a pot and while some people are yahoos, shouldn't be much wrong with it that some elbow grease won't cure. And most likely it would have a sight glass and valve(s) and possibly ports, sometimes an autosparge. You would need to have a HERMS coil or a RIMS, and need to add in a TC port for an element on your existing 15 gallon pot and valves. Because if you do go electric, a TC port for your element is the best way to go. It can be taken out and cleaned and replaced easily if necessary. The nicer elements clean up easily with a brush. and that's more important on your BK, which it still isn't that big a chore. I have to CIP my CFC and HERMS coil so PBW is pumping hot through the system anyway with the BK as the reservoir.

Now new Surface vs new regular mash tun, maybe the price is in the Surface's favor. But if you tell me you want to save money, I say go used with SS pots.

I'm a proud 3 vessel owner, you all are welcome to BIAB if you like. Nothing anyone has said ever interested me in changing to BIAB, no matter how vocal. I have tinkered with my system based on HBT, so it's not that I'm hidebound. I've been electric for 5 years with it and brewed 3 vessels more years than that before. If that's what you want @Haze Crazed do it!

 

[Haze Crazed]

Notwithstanding the above, OP wants to move away from BIAB and do three vessel brewing. He actually asked that we not pester him about the advantages of BIAB. I disregarded his request because of Bobby's evident passion on this subject. But it's hard to advise OP given lack of info about his pain points.

Some of my pain points with BIAB are the inconsistent efficiencies. I brew 6 and 12g batches. Most the time the same NEIPA batches and it’s all over the board. Some days I kill it and some days it sucks. I have no control over my mash temps. I live in Nebraska and 50% of the time I brew it’s freezing or super hot. I’m currently propane fired so I can’t direct fire without it being a pain and melting reflectix to the side of my pot or inconsistent temps with wrapping my tun with sleeping bags etc. I want the temp control. I know I could get a brew commander and just add a rim rocket and recirculate my mash and stay with BIAB and I know that would save money and space but I really want 3 kettles. Each with their own purpose. For now with input cost I feel controlling temp in mash is what I need. I thought the surface offered me a way to control mash temps without direct fire or herms in my HLT or an external RIMs device so less to clean and less thermal loss as well as less wort loss to plumbing. I’m really open to any advice, less staying with BIAB.

So eventually you would like to go all electric and you want temperature control for the mash. You'll need some type of controller then. I took a look at the brew commander and surface to get a better idea as to what they do. I have a panel for my system that the PIDs are in. In my system, I could conceivably switch the panel out and use the brew commander (HLT) and Blichmanns power controller (BK). My pumps have switches. I would need two 240 outlets available to run both at the same time, or some way to switch between the two which could be as simple as unplugging one but I don't recommend that. Those two units cost about $800. The Brew Commander can run the Surface, or it could run a HLT with a HERMS, or maybe a RIMS system but honestly, I haven't studied that one much.

I'm not sure the Surface is the way to go because for 10 gallon batches you would need to oversize with the 20 gallon Surface. Maybe if you only fly sparged but I think you might top out for a high gravity 10 gallon batch. I fly sparge and have done some higher gravity 10 gallon batches but I have keggles. A batch sparge would be too much volume all at once in the 10. With the Surface, you would need something to heat your sparge water with, which could be your 15. I don't have a lot of 10 gallon recipes but the amount of sparge water is about 7-9 gallons. I think you might be able to do that during the mash with 120V and I'd guess if started at the same time as the strike water no problem. A propane burner ought to be able to crank it out in time as well. The Surface though is an expensive unit! The 20 gallon is $800 without a thermometer port and just one valve hole.

The Surface still has a false bottom, which still needs cleaning. I don't have to scrub the element on my HLT where the HERMS coil is. I only heat water in the HLT. I only clean it intermittently with any vigor, spray it out otherwise. A little cleaning but really minor. You could find a 15 gallon Blichmann mash tun on the FB Marketplace for $200-350 used. Probably a Spike one too. It's just a pot and while some people are yahoos, shouldn't be much wrong with it that some elbow grease won't cure. And most likely it would have a sight glass and valve(s) and possibly ports, sometimes an autosparge. You would need to have a HERMS coil or a RIMS, and need to add in a TC port for an element on your existing 15 gallon pot and valves. Because if you do go electric, a TC port for your element is the best way to go. It can be taken out and cleaned and replaced easily if necessary. The nicer elements clean up easily with a brush. and that's more important on your BK, which it still isn't that big a chore. I have to CIP my CFC and HERMS coil so PBW is pumping hot through the system anyway with the BK as the reservoir.

Now new Surface vs new regular mash tun, maybe the price is in the Surface's favor. But if you tell me you want to save money, I say go used with SS pots.

I'm a proud 3 vessel owner, you all are welcome to BIAB if you like. Nothing anyone has said ever interested me in changing to BIAB, no matter how vocal. I have tinkered with my system based on HBT, so it's not that I'm hidebound. I've been electric for 5 years with it and brewed 3 vessels more years than that before. If that's what you want @Haze Crazed do it!
View attachment 840174

I sincerely appreciate your input. This is what I’m really looking for. 3V brewers that can give me their personal advise. The good the bad. What they’ve learned. What they wish they would’ve done out of the gates. Over the years I’ve bought a lot of equipment that I’ve ended up selling off for pennies on the dollar as I’ve expanded. This next step is hopefully going to be my last. Unless I have a desire to quit my job and open a nano, which would be awesome but I don’t see happening.

 

[sibelman]

Here is one piece of advice given your concerns: consider an insulated mashtun such as SSBrewtech's InfuSsion. (I use the Chapman ThermoBarrel but that seems no longer available.) HERMS recirculation could be more temperature stable with the insulation.

You've got stainless pots. You could convert them to an electric HLT and an electric BK. PID for mash recirculation from Auber. Boil requires only more basic control. Auber again. Blichmann is fine. Also consider Spike.

Another: think about the cold side. You've asked about brew day equipment, but the real magic happens in the fermenter.

Cheers!

 

[Haze Crazed]

And I forgot to mention, with pre cleaning and clean up I still seem to be at about 7-8hr with BIAB from start to transfer to fermentor. I know a lot of people boast about 4hr BIAB brew days but that hasn’t happened for me since I was brewing extract in a 5g pot. I will admit I’m not the most efficient guy, I monitor everything, thanks beersmith

 

[Haze Crazed]

Here is one piece of advice given your concerns: consider an insulated mashtun such as SSBrewtech's InfuSsion. (I use the Chapman ThermoBarrel but that seems no longer available.) HERMS recirculation could be more temperature stable with the insulation.

You've got stainless pots. You could convert them to an electric HLT and an electric BK. PID for mash recirculation from Auber. Boil requires only more basic control. Auber again. Blichmann is fine. Also consider Spike.

Another: think about the cold side. You've asked about brew day equipment, but the real magic happens in the fermenter.

Cheers!

Cold side for me is currently Fermzilla. I want to get my hot side dialed in and then pan to switch to jacketed SS with a glycol chiller. I’m currently running a homemade igloo cooler chiller with a temp twister and inkbird.

 

[Haze Crazed]

@BlichmannEngineering any input?

 

[Red over White]

As a long time 2 & 3 vessel brewer (depending on the beer), have you considered a 17g brewzilla for your mashtun? The best thing I did for my brewery was to convert a new 17g 3.1.1 brewzilla AIO into a traditional mashtun with recirculation under the false bottom. Precise control, automation, no drilling, can cheaply be upgraded to 23 or 29 gal capacity and has plenty of power.

In the picture you can see I added 1 tee, a cross fitting, temp gauge with a sample port to split the pump output and it gives the precision of Bobby's setup. Technically, you can still use it as an AIO if you wanted at any time too. Just throwing this out there as another option.

 

[micraftbeer]

I do a lot of equipment reviews, so I've had my hands on, and brewed with, a lot of different things. Advice from that in random tidbits:

1. Spike makes an awesome kettle. Indestructibly tank-like. Downside is it's heavy as crap. Washing 15g kettles over the years taught me they're just too heavy/big. Lighter is better in the long run, due to cleaning.

2. I did RIMS for years, using the Blichmann RIMS Rocket and was extremely happy with temperature control and step mashes.

3. 240V Is the way to go. Putting in a dedicated 240V plug if you don't have one will be a cost variable for you depending on a lot of things, but I can't over-emphasize how much happier you'll be with 240V power when doing step mashes, and heating to boil. 120V Is possible, but it takes a lot more time.

4. Blichmann button-louver false bottom is the best. Better than Spike's slots, various domed ones with holes, definitely better than mesh sock. Blichmann's lets plenty of flow through but is amazing at not letting grain bits through.

5. Might not make sense for you re-using some of your existing kettles, but I always heat my sparge water in an electric AIO. It's simple, 120V and can do its thing without paying attention to it.

6. Blichmann Auto Sparge is so elegant to modulate sparge water flow into mash tun and likewise makes this process so easy without a bunch of fiddling.

7. Similar thought, which might not be what you want, is using BrewZilla Gen4 for a mash tun. The controls available with that system when you use the Bluetooth thermometer in the mash, while simultaneously monitoring wort temperature on the bottom and making some heating decisions there is simply great. Hands down a better and more controllable mash than I could get on my 3V with RIMS. Just takes a long time to heat to boil.

8. Blichmann Brew Commander is great. With my 3V setup I used one controller and just swapped the power cables and temp probes when I went from mash control to boil control. Of course it would be great if it had two sets of inputs, but swapping those over wasn't bad. It's not like hoses where you run the risk of dribbling hot wort.

 

[k-daddy]

I think the most important thing to do, before you spend another dime, is to decide what you're trying to achieve. There is some mixed messaging in your post because a 3 vessel system is definitely not the "easiest/most economical". If your goal is to make brew day longer with more process overhead and equipment to maintain and clean, you'll get it with 3 vessels.

It's a typical misunderstanding that BIAB is a cave man operation with no control and 3 vessel brewing is a precise greased machine. It's just not true. Any system configuration can be a jury-rigged mess OR and fine-controlled engineering marvel.

This thing makes half barrel batches that win NHC silver medals (German Pilsner, Munich Dunkel, Pale Ale), several best of show titles and state brewing championships, and it holds mash temps within 1F. It's just one example of many.
View attachment 840111


What is it about your current BIAB process you don't like and want to improve on?

What is it about a 3-vessel system that makes you think it will fix that problem?

It's reasonable that there is a valid push towards 3-vessel brewing for some people, but I find many have fundamental misunderstandings around both system types that misinform a decision.

Off topic Bobby but could you provide the details of your exhaust system? I'm looking to move from my home made overhead fan hood to something like yours. I have a window directly above the kettle and something like this would allow me to mount my pulley system directly overhead so I don't have to move the kettle around on the table. I figured you have specked it out in terms of size, capacity and compatibility with the very humid environment. Thanks.

 

[Haze Crazed]

I do a lot of equipment reviews, so I've had my hands on, and brewed with, a lot of different things. Advice from that in random tidbits:

1. Spike makes an awesome kettle. Indestructibly tank-like. Downside is it's heavy as crap. Washing 15g kettles over the years taught me they're just too heavy/big. Lighter is better in the long run, due to cleaning.

2. I did RIMS for years, using the Blichmann RIMS Rocket and was extremely happy with temperature control and step mashes.

3. 240V Is the way to go. Putting in a dedicated 240V plug if you don't have one will be a cost variable for you depending on a lot of things, but I can't over-emphasize how much happier you'll be with 240V power when doing step mashes, and heating to boil. 120V Is possible, but it takes a lot more time.

4. Blichmann button-louver false bottom is the best. Better than Spike's slots, various domed ones with holes, definitely better than mesh sock. Blichmann's lets plenty of flow through but is amazing at not letting grain bits through.

5. Might not make sense for you re-using some of your existing kettles, but I always heat my sparge water in an electric AIO. It's simple, 120V and can do its thing without paying attention to it.

6. Blichmann Auto Sparge is so elegant to modulate sparge water flow into mash tun and likewise makes this process so easy without a bunch of fiddling.

7. Similar thought, which might not be what you want, is using BrewZilla Gen4 for a mash tun. The controls available with that system when you use the Bluetooth thermometer in the mash, while simultaneously monitoring wort temperature on the bottom and making some heating decisions there is simply great. Hands down a better and more controllable mash than I could get on my 3V with RIMS. Just takes a long time to heat to boil.

8. Blichmann Brew Commander is great. With my 3V setup I used one controller and just swapped the power cables and temp probes when I went from mash control to boil control. Of course it would be great if it had two sets of inputs, but swapping those over wasn't bad. It's not like hoses where you run the risk of dribbling hot wort.

Im going to look into the brewzilla. I generally make NEIPA with 1.074 OG so a good amount of grain. When I want 10g batch I generally have make 12g of finished wort due to heavy losses in the fermenter with all the dry hops. Would I have to treat this like BIAB doing full volume mash’s?

 

[bf514921]

Hello, my appologies if i missed anything from the original poster(any many in between)
I have had the opportunity over the years to slowly upgrade my system, add a vessel upgrade a vessel. Sell old equipment for a lot less than i bought it for.

For many of these years i have used a herms system. One of the process steps that i have found very helpful with keeping it clean is that the sparge water is run through the herms coil to rinse it out during sparging. If i understand from the OP, cleaning was a concern(rimms vs herms). I have had Blichman mash tun (G1 or G2 dont rember) 10 gallon, SS Brew tech insulated mash tun(10 gallon) and spike tank (15 gallon). They have all have pros and cons

For the temperature control i have used herms. The things that are important for the herms and mash setup i found over the years(and i am sure their are more)
1) 1/2 inch ID herms tube for the hermskeeps things flowing
2) temp probe location and length - are you taking temp in the edge of the vessel, middle, multiple locations, i have found when the temp proble is to short, the reading really isn't right.
3) False bottom, all are not created equal, i am sure you can find many discussions on which is best, from the experiance of the vessels i have had so far the blichmann design worked best for me without allowing pasing grains or getting stuck mash. Something else i learned over the years, that to thin of a mash(in my instance 1.5 quarts per pound or more) would also cause a stuck mash when recirculating.
4)How the mash tun drains, I really like the bottom drain mash tun. The clean up is much easier(this also should be 1/2 id or greater, 1 inch or bigger is ideal for preventing stuck grain during cleaning.
5) how you intend to clean out the grains, for me the door on the spike mashtun was realy great, my cleanup time whent way down on spend grains, and the mash tun as a whole. Once done mashing, clean out the bulk of the grains, clean the flase bottom, and rinse. before when scooping out grains that took longer, and i tended to spill more spent grain.
6)

i have been brewing for 13-14 years, and always had the goal of a 3 vessel system, i started in a single vessel extract. moved to electric and then built several variations of a 3 vessel system over the years. I do 5 gallon batches, so there may be addtional concerns or differences when considering 10 gallon

THis is a recent picture of my system(i have added another port to my mashtun to be closer to the herms outlet). The goal was to minimize hose moves and to brew and to be able to CIP. I had also looked at 3 way valves, but did decide to use a 3rd pump to help minimize hose changes(i have used chugger, blichmann riptide, and now spike flow pumps)
I hope you find this helpful if i understood the questions correctly from the OP.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I use a 3v, propane fired, RIMS system and enjoy it. I also fly sparge and step mash every brew. I enjoy the process.

My vessels are keggles, so I'm limited to no more than 10g batches (5g at high gravity). The RIMS doesn't drive my temp, but maintains it, that's what the propane is for. I've been doing it this way for 10+ years.

My brew day is every bit of 6-7 hours. I'm not sure my cleaning is any more than any other system. The HLT is rinsed. The MT/RIMS is cleaned during the boil. The fly sparge can be long, 30-minutes for a 5g batch (double for 10), but I'm boiling by the time the sparge is done. I think the step mashes add the most (extra) time, as with propane, I have to go low and slow or risk scorching.

I've been thinking of trying an AIO, as there's a lot of them on the used market these days and they're cheap. Just looks like an inexpensive way to get into all electric. With propane I'm pretty much a fair weather brewer. It would be nice to do some climate controlled brewing rather than standing around my garage.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby I hope you don’t take offense to this either. I’ve met people that have awards with 2V and BIAB systems. And I know that’s attainable. At the moment I’m not looking to win awards or start a brewery. I’m happy with my profession and love the time I have with my family so I don’t want to give that up chasing a nano. I just want a 3V, if you have an offer to sell me the vessel I’m looking for at less than Blichmann will I’m all ears

It takes a lot more than that to offend me. I brought up the accolades of competition purely to preemptively dispel any concerns about wort quality. I only assume you want to make the best beer you can within the budget you have to work with and I have my opinions about where budget can be better spent. That's about it.

I don't sell Blichmann products for less than Blichmann does because the profit margin is paper thin as it is.


One question you'll have to answer, for yourself even, is how important is step mashing to you? It's a major factor in designing a system that suits you. I personally brew a large majority of German lagers and frequently run at least 2 step temps, if not 3 or 4. Accurate and fast temp ramps of the mash are a must for me. If you only do single infusion mashes and plan to stick to it, now your system only needs to maintain temps well.

HERMS systems are favored in some cases because if you only have one electric controller (or a generally simple one), a HERMS acts as both the mash temp maintain system as well as the strike water/sparge water heating source. Another way to say that is, if you're going to run a controller/element combo, it may as well do as much work as possible. When I had a manually operated 3 vessel system, one extremely common error I made was overshooting my water heating by 20-30F because I walked away to do something. A tight controlled HLT means when you come back, it's at the temp you wanted ALWAYS.

You talked about manually controlling the boil kettle, but if that's on electric, it's still going to be on some kind of controller. You can switch the HLT controller over to the boil kettle in the middle of your sparge and control the boil that way. It may not seem necessary, but having the controller hold your wort at 210F for the front half of the sparge is a baller move to shave time off your brew day.

RIMS systems that are sized/powered to the ability to make step mashes are also quite volatile and may scorch/ruin a batch if you're not careful. When more toned down, they can only really hold temps. See note about goals above.

If you were to buy the Blich Surface kettle as the mash tun, which turns that into a direct fire mash tun. I'm uncontrollably compelled to scream eBIAB again. However, if you heat strike water and maintain mash temps via direct fire, you really don't need an HLT. You could sparge directly from your tap water source, from an RO system, etc.

 

[Bobby_M]

Off topic Bobby but could you provide the details of your exhaust system? I'm looking to move from my home made overhead fan hood to something like yours. I have a window directly above the kettle and something like this would allow me to mount my pulley system directly overhead so I don't have to move the kettle around on the table. I figured you have specked it out in terms of size, capacity and compatibility with the very humid environment. Thanks.

If you're referring to the exhaust in the picture, that's not my setup but my friend Larry's. I use steam condensing on my kettle half the time (or open boil if my shop needs the moisture). The one in the picture is just a 12" exhaust fan in the back wall directly to the outside. There are self closing louvres on the back that swing open when the fan is turned on. It's about the best case scenario for avoiding condensation dripping back down from an overhead hood, but it does require brewing on an outside wall. The bigger the fan, the slower you can run it (more quiet).

 

[Haze Crazed]

It takes a lot more than that to offend me. I brought up the accolades of competition purely to preemptively dispel any concerns about wort quality. I only assume you want to make the best beer you can within the budget you have to work with and I have my opinions about where budget can be better spent. That's about it.

I don't sell Blichmann products for less than Blichmann does because the profit margin is paper thin as it is.


One question you'll have to answer, for yourself even, is how important is step mashing to you? It's a major factor in designing a system that suits you. I personally brew a large majority of German lagers and frequently run at least 2 step temps, if not 3 or 4. Accurate and fast temp ramps of the mash are a must for me. If you only do single infusion mashes and plan to stick to it, now your system only needs to maintain temps well.

HERMS systems are favored in some cases because if you only have one electric controller (or a generally simple one), a HERMS acts as both the mash temp maintain system as well as the strike water/sparge water heating source. Another way to say that is, if you're going to run a controller/element combo, it may as well do as much work as possible. When I had a manually operated 3 vessel system, one extremely common error I made was overshooting my water heating by 20-30F because I walked away to do something. A tight controlled HLT means when you come back, it's at the temp you wanted ALWAYS.

You talked about manually controlling the boil kettle, but if that's on electric, it's still going to be on some kind of controller. You can switch the HLT controller over to the boil kettle in the middle of your sparge and control the boil that way. It may not seem necessary, but having the controller hold your wort at 210F for the front half of the sparge is a baller move to shave time off your brew day.

RIMS systems that are sized/powered to the ability to make step mashes are also quite volatile and may scorch/ruin a batch if you're not careful. When more toned down, they can only really hold temps. See note about goals above.

If you were to buy the Blich Surface kettle as the mash tun, which turns that into a direct fire mash tun. I'm uncontrollably compelled to scream eBIAB again. However, if you heat strike water and maintain mash temps via direct fire, you really don't need an HLT. You could sparge directly from your tap water source, from an RO system, etc.

Bobby you’ve peaked my interest in your system, do you have a link to your setup? I don’t “have” to have a 3V system it’s just always what I wanted and envisioned as my dream system. I made itemized list today for HERMS and RIMS systems and I pretty sure I’ll be around $1,700-$1,900 depending on if I went with blichmann or spike. I knew it would be up there but that price tag has me has is making me really want to review all options.

I rarely brew anything other than NEIPA/IPA. The occasional brown or stout and maybe a blonde once a year. I’ve actually only done single infusion mashes.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby you’ve peaked my interest in your system, do you have a link to your setup? I don’t “have” to have a 3V system it’s just always what I wanted and envisioned as my dream system. I made itemized list today for HERMS and RIMS systems and I pretty sure I’ll be around $1,700-$1,900 depending on if I went with blichmann or spike. I knew it would be up there but that price tag has me has is making me really want to review all options.

I rarely brew anything other than NEIPA/IPA. The occasional brown or stout and maybe a blonde once a year. I’ve actually only done single infusion mashes.

I have three main versions preconfigured. One based on Spike's OG flat bottom with NPT ports, which is the most budget friendly. The other two are bottom drain kettles for the ability to clean in place; one Spike and one Blichmann. The latter requires you to cut a hole in your work table so that the drain can go under the table.

Other than picking a base system, I think the hardest part is navigating the options for pump kit, controller and chiller. There was a time where I made all the decisions and offered one turn key system but I was quickly corrected by how many mix and matching people wanted to do.



Everything was a bit of an evolution from my own brewing systems so if you wanted to follow along, let's go back a few years.


Another video with that same system, but a little more focus on the Auber DSPR-320 controller brain that I offer in the Auber Cube controller.


From there, after a bit of evangelizing on the benefits of dual path recirculation that I built into my system and then all the subsequent system builds I sold, I wrote this article which later went into BYO magazine. https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1972.htm
The Spike bottom drain TANK came out and a lot of people wanted that thing, but as you can see the price is pretty spicy. There were a few customers that wanted a bottom drain but didn't want to lower their table height to allow for the leg height of the tank kettle. Some people also wanted external sightglasses. Both of those desires lead me back to the Blichmann boilermakers that I had previously sort of discounted as older tech. It all came together though because Blichmann finally offered kettles without pre-punched weldless holes so I could put TC ports anywhere I wanted (including the bottom).

Despite building a couple dozen of the systems since starting the Blichmann bottom drain, I hadn't had any customer videos of it. I finally brewed with my buddy Larry and made a long form video. There are a lot of customizations that are not on the production system, but you can get an idea of how it works here.


Last, I just built this kettle version for myself. Not a great video, but the new kettle is in it.


If you really wanted it, I could build a version based on the Blichmann Surface, but keep in mind it can't be bottom drained.

 

[Haze Crazed]

I have three main versions preconfigured. One based on Spike's OG flat bottom with NPT ports, which is the most budget friendly. The other two are bottom drain kettles for the ability to clean in place; one Spike and one Blichmann. The latter requires you to cut a hole in your work table so that the drain can go under the table.

View attachment 840272


Other than picking a base system, I think the hardest part is navigating the options for pump kit, controller and chiller. There was a time where I made all the decisions and offered one turn key system but I was quickly corrected by how many mix and matching people wanted to do.



Everything was a bit of an evolution from my own brewing systems so if you wanted to follow along, let's go back a few years.


Another video with that same system, but a little more focus on the Auber DSPR-320 controller brain that I offer in the Auber Cube controller.


From there, after a bit of evangelizing on the benefits of dual path recirculation that I built into my system and then all the subsequent system builds I sold, I wrote this article which later went into BYO magazine. https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1972.htm
The Spike bottom drain TANK came out and a lot of people wanted that thing, but as you can see the price is pretty spicy. There were a few customers that wanted a bottom drain but didn't want to lower their table height to allow for the leg height of the tank kettle. Some people also wanted external sightglasses. Both of those desires lead me back to the Blichmann boilermakers that I had previously sort of discounted as older tech. It all came together though because Blichmann finally offered kettles without pre-punched weldless holes so I could put TC ports anywhere I wanted (including the bottom).

Despite building a couple dozen of the systems since starting the Blichmann bottom drain, I hadn't had any customer videos of it. I finally brewed with my buddy Larry and made a long form video. There are a lot of customizations that are not on the production system, but you can get an idea of how it works here.


Last, I just built this kettle version for myself. Not a great video, but the new kettle is in it.


If you really wanted it, I could build a version based on the Blichmann Surface, but keep in mind it can't be bottom drained.

Awesome videos man! I enjoyed watching those and I’m impressed vs the BIAB brew day I’m currently carrying out. Which has no recirculation and I’m direct fire so I have no real mash temp control. That said one thing that stuck with me from one of your original responses to my post was 3V brewer with their deep pockets wasting money and paying you to teach them how to use it. Looking at the pricing you provided for the kettle only and taking into account the control system and pump kit I’m not sure I’ll be that far ahead in terms of pricing vs adding a 3rd vessel to my system. I know I will have labor involved with drilling my pots and a lot of planning but if we’re comparing cost I don’t see how I’d be ahead going with your system vs what I’ve purposed. Again I don’t say this argumentatively but it’s worth pointing out. If I was starting from ground zero this would save me money for sure but where I’m at I don’t see much savings, I’m terms of investment. I know most eBIAB brewers say 3V creates an added time to brew day that is completely avoidable but I currently seem to spend 8hr on a BIAB day with pre/post cleaning.

 

[micraftbeer]

I know most eBIAB brewers say 3V creates an added time to brew day that is completely avoidable but I currently seem to spend 8hr on a BIAB day with pre/post cleaning.

I think it's how you calculate "brew day". Or maybe if you're poor at multi-tasking and you wait until you've fed wort to the fermentor, before cleaning your mash tun. But from start to finish, the things that take time are:

1. Heating strike water. Systems with delay start auto-timers absolutely rock for this one. If you're doing full volume mash, it will take you longer to heat strike water (unless you do the delay start timer and let it heat strike water while you're sleeping).

2. Mash time. If single step mash, this will be identical regardless. If you're doing multi-step, the time is driven by how quickly you can heat the wort. 240V Is the hack here over 120V. But there are other things like recirculation, insulation, and multi-probe systems (like BrewZilla Gen4) where you can do tricks to monitor grain bed temp while keeping recirc temp under control. But all of this is no different for BIAB, with the exception that full volume mash will take longer to heat.

3. Sparge. This is whether you choose to put it in your process, not BIAB-unique.

4. Heat to boil. 240V/propane is faster than 120V. BIAB makes no time difference.

5. Boil. Recipe dependent on what you create.

So from start to finish, BIAB should not change your brew day duration. However, the task of cleaning your mash tun while heating to a boil or during the boil can be loads easier with BIAB systems. But this shouldn't change your start/end brew day time. So maybe people bragging about fast brew day times with BIAB are using some kind of stopwatch where when they walk away from their brew vessel to go do something else, they pause the timer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Looking at the pricing you provided for the kettle only and taking into account the control system and pump kit I’m not sure I’ll be that far ahead in terms of pricing vs adding a 3rd vessel to my system. I know I will have labor involved with drilling my pots and a lot of planning but if we’re comparing cost I don’t see how I’d be ahead going with your system vs what I’ve purposed. Again I don’t say this argumentatively but it’s worth pointing out. If I was starting from ground zero this would save me money for sure but where I’m at I don’t see much savings, I’m terms of investment. I know most eBIAB brewers say 3V creates an added time to brew day that is completely avoidable but I currently seem to spend 8hr on a BIAB day with pre/post cleaning.

The cost hadn't really crossed my mind but you'll want to take a closer look at the cost per functionality and factor in time. Not only that, but if you bought a turnkey system from me you can delete out the resale value of the kettles you currently have.

I don't know why your BIAB brew day is taking 8 hours. From the moment I turn the controller on and press heat, my brew day is between 3:45 and 4:30 depending on my mash profile and whether I'm boiling 60 or 90 minutes.

(for 6 gallon batches)
My strike water takes 25 minutes to heat from 60F to 155F.
My ramp to boil takes 17 minutes from lifting the bag up to reaching a boil.

The primary time difference with 3V vs eBIAB is the heat time, sparge time, and cleanup.

Heat time: A 3V system, commonly with a HERMS coil, requires heating about twice as much water.
Sparge time: One of the justifications for the extra overhead of a 3V system is that they are more efficient. That efficiency requires a good slow fly sparge so that's +40-60 minutes.
Cleanup: Not that much more. Clean the mash tun during the boil, though if your source of hot water requires the element that's boiling your wort, you'll have to wait. I guess the only other time factor depends on whether you have a dedicated brewing station or if you have to drag gear out somewhere and put it away. If the latter, a 3V system is going to have a longer setup and putaway time.

Edit, I actually brewed today. Put the float in the kettle and turned the RO on last night. I'll label each picture with the timestamp on my phone.
Fired up at 10:30am, 72F start.

Water salts and grain milling in the meantime. 10:40am

Doughed in 10:56am (this was delayed by 5 minutes because I got a delivery at the back end of the shop)

Mashed at 154F for 65 minutes then bumped up to 159 for 10 minutes. I finished the mash at 12:15pm. Decided to ramp to 170 for a mashout.
Pulled the bag a few inches at a time... 12:22pm

Set the controller to 210F while I was letting the bag drain/squeezed. I ran about a quart short but at the correct gravity so I squeezed more than usual. Emptied the bag into a bucket for the compost and then reached the boil: 12:47pm

Boiled 60 minutes
Sanitized my fermenter in the meantime

Chilling after 10 minute hop stand: 1:55pm

Reached 68F at 2:16pm

Whirlpooled 2 more minutes, let the wort settle for about 15 minutes. This would be longer if it wasn't a hazy beer. I would use whirlfloc and settle for 30-40minutes in that case. This time it was going into the fermenter at 2:35pm

That was 4 hours to tucking the fermenter into the fridge.

Since the kettle is a bottom drain and the sink sprayer is right next to it, I just spray out the debris (2 minutes) and fill it again just to cover the false bottom and element. One scoop of PBW and heat to 150F while I run the pump through all the hoses for 20 minutes and then spray rinse one more time. If you add the cleaning time that's 4.5 hours but it's questionable if you need to count that because I'm definitely off doing whatever by then and sometimes I just let the cleaning cycle run for an hour while I'm busy.

Either way, this is an average brew day for me. Sometimes it's 4 flat, sometimes 5:30 with a multi-step mash and a 90 minute boil.

 

[Deadalus]

The heat time on my EHERMs is offset by the time it takes to condition and mill my grains and weighing out water salts. Technically BIAB would need to mill more grain for the same size recipe but that's just a few extra minutes and BIAB could also do that what I do while heating water. I prep my RO water the day before, which would take longer than for BIAB as I need to have the coil covered. (But I'm not watching that all day as is clearly evidenced by the many watery messes I have chalked up, float valve be damned!) That excess water is hot enough at the end of sparging to soak the mash tun. This is for a 6 gallon batch. A bigger batch would use more sparge water and then I would need extra for cleaning but I use the tap for that.

For cleanup, a HERMS coil is the critical factor I would say that would add time to a 3V system. It has to be CIP'ed. Whether an immersion chiller, plate chiller, or counterflow chiller is used would be options for both systems. I have five hoses that go between the three vessels but then one extra hose to go to the fermentation vessel (carboys, bucket). I used to have a brewmometer on a 3/8" hose for that. Now that I have a uni, I could still do it with five with the right fitting. I use that extra 3/8" line anyway for CIP as I form a long loop with both the HERMS and CFC in the loop. It's a good idea in my opinion to CIP a PC or CFC after use. It's no hassle since I am doing the HERMS coil anyway. BIAB could save time with an IC, but it too needs cleaning. That's quicker than CIP for 20-30 minutes and that's just the PBW. Then a quick rinse and some starsan. With my March pumps, the rinse and starsan steps could be trouble as the CIP loop is long and would work ok out of the BK but I put rinse water and starsan in a bucket on the floor. Sometimes that was a difficult prime, even with a priming valve added on the pumps. However, now both my Riptide and Flow handle that a lot better so it's a lot less frustrating and less time consuming.

About a quart/minute is a good sparge rate so 30-50 minutes for 5-10 gallon batches. Dialing that down slower than that can help for very high gravity batches to maintain efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

So maybe people bragging about fast brew day times with BIAB are using some kind of stopwatch where when they walk away from their brew vessel to go do something else, they pause the timer.

Are you saying that from experience brewing on an eBIAB system or conjecture? It's important, because I've brewed on an eBIAB about as many batches as I have on a 3 vessel, albeit only about 10 batches on an eHERMS 3V so I admit I just may not be tuned in as much.

I don't know why anyone would want to brag about their brew day times like it's a race. I'm just stating the way it is as I experience it.

 

[micraftbeer]

Are you saying that from experience brewing on an eBIAB system or conjecture? It's important, because I've brewed on an eBIAB about as many batches as I have on a 3 vessel, albeit only about 10 batches on an eHERMS 3V so I admit I just may not be tuned in as much.

From experience. But really everything electric. When I was brewing with propane my records and process were much more variable.

I have found that eBIAB vs. 3V RIMS (I have never brewed with HERMS) that there are two things that drive my length of brew day: 1) 120V vs. 240V, and 2) My recipe. Sometimes I do a single rest + mashout. Sometimes I do 3 rests + mashout. Sometimes 60 minute boils and sometimes 90 minute boils.

Probably another variable here is sparge vs. no-sparge. Maybe the assumption is eBIAB = no-sparge, and 3V = 60 minute fly sparge. But obviously that isn't the case. I batch sparge in my All-In-One eBIAB units, and a 15-30 minute fly sparge in 3V.

I have brewed in: Mash & Boil (120V eBIAB), Brau Supply (120V eBIAB), Grainfather (120V eBIAB), Braumeister (240V eBIAB), BrewEasy (240V RIMS), BrewEasy Compact (240V eBIAB), Brew-Boss (240V eBIAB), Robobrew Gen1 (120V eBIAB), BrewZilla/Robobrew Gen4 (120V eBIAB), Anvil Foundry (120V eBIAB), Wort Hog (120V eBIAB), 3V (120V RIMS), 3V (240V RIMS).

 

[JAReeves]

I'm late to the party on this, I am sure, but I upgraded from a 10G SSBrewtech mash tun to an AIO with recirculation. I love the consistent temp and it's actually easier to clean. I could do BIAB, obviously, but I like 3V brewing as well.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Propane is definitely a time factor for me. I've never scorched a mash or boil, so I always go slow on temp changes for step mashes. Boil too, to an extent, but since i fly sparge, not a time issue, as I'm boiling by the end of that 25-30 minutes for 5g (and double for 10g). More steps in the mash take more of the time. Brewed last week and I raised the mash from 149 to 172 for the mash-out step over 18-minutes. If I have more steps, you can do the math. Sometimes I throw in a single decoction on this mash-out step, pull a thick chunk, boil it for 10-minutes and drop it back in. I also whirlpool at flame out and let it stand for 20-minutes, to clear the trub, hops, etc., before I chill it.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's all good. I listed out my brew day steps on a timeline and made some arguments for why I prefer the eBIAB process. I didn't mean to commandeer the thread as much as I already have. There's plenty of discussion to be had, but this is not really the place anymore. If there is something I can help you with, email the shop.

 

[Deric]

Looking at the pricing you provided for the kettle only and taking into account the control system and pump kit I’m not sure I’ll be that far ahead in terms of pricing vs adding a 3rd vessel to my system. I know I will have labor involved with drilling my pots and a lot of planning but if we’re comparing cost I don’t see how I’d be ahead going with your system vs what I’ve purposed.

If you have a good kettle there's no reason you can't convert that to a recirculating electric BIAB system. I saw Bobby's video before I ever realized he sold turn-key systems. I converted an old 10 gallon pot (bought almost 30 years ago when I did my first all-grain batch) using @Bobby_M 's weldless bulkheads/fittings. I also DIY'd my own controller but if I had it to do all over again I'd probably go with the Auber controller BrewHardware sells as I didn't really save much doing it myself.

I also have a 3V electric HERMS system that me and my brother brew on just as often. Yeah it takes longer but it's a good hang.

They both make great beer but the BIAB system has much better and consistent temp control and faster step mashing.

 

[Haze Crazed]

I guess I should clarify my 8hr brew day includes pre cleaning all hot side equipment and sanitizing all cold side. I try to clean hot first start strike water then sanitize cold while mashing. I don’t have a sink in my garage to clean anything so I lugging 5g pails of water from upstairs down to the garage in my split entry home. Then I’m also include full clean up and storing equipment in that brew day time. I just bought a cfc and sold my therminator which should shave off about 1-1.5hr of cleaning. I would run Pbw 20-30 min both directions, 20 min hot water both then star 20-30 min both after transferring to fermentor. I also have a homemade “chiller” that I have to dig out of the garage and set up once I get the fermentor back in the house from the garage which adds time to my “brew day” so I suppose you could shave off 2hr from my quoted 8hr time that isn’t actually brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

Clean the stuff after brewing on it, then no need to clean again before brewing. Before upgrading anything, I'd be running hot and cold water and a drain to where you want to brew, or brew where there is already water and drain. Lugging water sounds like a nightmare. No basement?

 

[Haze Crazed]

Clean the stuff after brewing on it, then no need to clean again before brewing. Before upgrading anything, I'd be running hot and cold water and a drain to where you want to brew, or brew where there is already water and drain. Lugging water sounds like a nightmare. No basement?

I have a basement but no water hookup. I’m currently running propane so I have to brew outdoors which is my garage. I have to leave my brew gear in my garage for storage so even though I clean it all after brewing I have to clean it again the next time I brew because the dust etc that potentially made it’s way in while being stored.

 

[Haze Crazed]

Update on my 3V aspirations. I used my 15g igloo this weekend as a mash tun with my 20g Brew Bag (no false bottom) in conjunction with my 15g pot as an HLT and my 20g BK. My brew day actually went quicker contrary to popular belief. That said it could be me, I could be doing things wrong biab and as previously mentioned I have to clean everything before I brew and then again after brew.

So I ended up with an imperial stout when I wanted a regular stout. My efficiency ended up being 84% when my recipe was designed around 72% BIAB efficiency. I’m talking mash efficiencies not brew house. Anyway I’m sold on 3V but I might keep rolling with this method until I can foot the bill for the upgrade I want. See pics below.

 

[Haze Crazed]

Before anyone says it, I know I could’ve added a few pounds of grain and been in the same spot. But with this brew I wasn’t planning an imperial. I got it because it was more efficient. I like that a lot, I know grains cost far less the $1,000 that the added mash tun, false bottom, extra pump, temp control and heating element will cost me but I work in a world that all about efficiencies so I just love the idea of getting better. On top of repeatability.

*EDIT- almost $2,000