Growing Out of BIAB: Reasons to Consider An MLT

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Moving from extract brewing to all-grain can be like earning a badge of honor in home brewing. Many who started extract brewing have never seen the need to expand into more complicated or exacting recipes, nor have needed that jump to be fair, as many award winning brews are extract-based (or at least partial mashed or include steeping grains). Many of those who have moved, however, have done so more simply through brew in a bag (BIAB). While this method solves most of the nagging issues of extract such as grain availability, fermentability of the wort, and lighter beer color, there is still much to be had by improving the mash in multiple vessel brewing.
The remaining benefits of moving to multiple vessel brewing is what this article is all about. Specifically, honing in on the finer aspects of the mash, since once the wort hits the boiler, everything else is the same as extract brewing (for the most part). What I have attempted to do over my years of continual equipment improvement and control is earn that badge of repeatability (to keep the metaphor going): the ability to take a recipe that I like and change it ever so slightly to suit my tastes, and remove all other variables in order to focus on that change. This is a large undertaking, since the variables include everything from grain/hops production and specs all the way through carbonating and serving. However, the bulk of the variable flavor impact occur with fermentation, and the first step of that is micro-controlling the mash with a dedicated mash/lauter tun (MLT). So let’s start there.

Hitting and Maintaining Mash Temp


Maintaining mash temp is important with a traditional mash tun, as well as BIAB
Heat the strike water, dip the bag of grains in, stir it around on low heat, and use a horse with a pulley and hoist the bag out. Pretty easy to make a good beer through BIAB, but there are a lot of knobs you can turn to make a good beer great. As I mentioned above, controlling the fermentability of the wort can have a huge impact on the flavor and mouthfeel of the beer. Fermentability can also be defined as controlling which, and to what extent, the enzymes in the grain works.
Let’s say you want to hit a mash temperature of 155°F for 60 minutes, and immediately stop enzyme activity for beer with a fairly heavy residual sweetness (or maltiness, or however the recipe and your taste buds define that impact). That means any slip into lower temps will drive more beta-amylase activity, producing a more fermentable and possibly drier beer. What that means for BIAB brewers is constant stirring and a close eye on the heat source. Stopping the enzymatic activity is as simple as increasing the heat (being careful not to scorch the grain or burn a hole in the bag) to 170°F, removing the bag, and starting the boil.
An improvement on this system in a dedicated MLT would actually be quite minimal. Using an MLT has the added benefits of possibly using a more insulating material and not worrying about scorched grains, but the actual process of mashing in, stirring, checking temperature and (with the right accessories) maintaining the temp and mashing out remain unchanged. The real benefits of a dedicated mash system are realized in ancillary steps.

The Sparge


On a commercial scale, the process of rinsing the grains is where much of the extract efficiency and lowering the cost of goods comes into play. While this is less of a factor for homebrewers, as the loss of extract in the grain through BIAB accounts maybe for a pound or two of grain, sparging the grain starts the march towards beer clarity and controlled pH, among others.
In BIAB, the sparge is typically as simple as moving the bag to another heated vessel of a small amount of water at an elevated temperature, sloshing it around and pulling it out. That rinse water is then added to the boil kettle. While many methods exist for achieving this process, it is essentially a batch sparge, or further dilution of extract in the grain.
Fly Sparging the mash
With a dedicated mash system, a number of sparges can easily be done in the same vessel using a false bottom, or one could fly sparge to squeeze a little more juice out of the grain. Either way, this separation of the grains and the boil kettle gives the brewer the ability to drain a very clear wort into the kettle through a vorlauf. Either by recirculating the mash with a pump or simply taking a quart at a time out and pouring it back on the top of the grain, the grain bed acts as a sand filter when it comes time to run it out and lauter, thus removing fine particles that would otherwise make it into the kettle during BIAB.
While there is certainly a lot of controversy on whether this is completely necessary both in the commercial and homebrew communities, it is yet another knob you can turn to tune up the brewing process. Removal of fine particles and possibly unconverted complex starches may have the benefit of decreasing astringent tannin extraction in the wort as well as clarifying the final beer. Only you can tell if it makes a difference in your beers.
Another benefit of separating the lauter of the grains from the kettle is that you can fine tune the extract efficiency through a number of rinsing processes. Depending on the shape and size of the false bottom or screen in the mash tun in addition to the sparge method (batch or fly sparge), the rinse process can be carefully tweaked to move a typical 70% BIAB efficiency up to the high 80’s. Not a requirement by far, nor will it significantly impact the beer quality, but it’s still fun to push the limits of your gear isn’t it?
One major downside, however, to the fly sparge process in a dedicated system is that it takes a good while to do it right. A typical 5 gallon mash could take upwards of 45 minutes just to get the wort in the kettle. Of course the kettle can be heating all this time so that the boil is starting just as the final runnings are coming off, but it is still something to consider.

Mash pH


Possibly one of the most important advantages of moving to a dedicated mash/lauter system, and I felt it needed its own section, is control over the mash pH. It’s not a straight forward process, and there are various levels of commitment in controlling the contents of your brewing water. It would therefore be irresponsible to dive into the complex specifics in this article. There are various sources out there for calculating mineral additions, etc., such as Bru’n Water, Brewer’s Friend, EZ Water, as well as some brewing software that has built in calculators that can get you started. What should be stated, however, is what benefit a dedicated mash system would have in the water chemistry process.
There are 2 main aspects of controlling brewing water chemistry: through addition (or removal) of salts, and adjustment of the water pH. With a mash system, you can split the salt that you normally might add to the boil kettle into the mash tun and hot liquor tun. This is important because as the mash grains are rinsed, the pH and mineral contents also change. If sparging with a lower pH than typical 7.5, you can maintain a lower wort pH for lighter beers, for example, reducing tannin extraction and astringency. You can also add back salts and necessary minerals to the sparge water that the grains would absorb in the mash, thus maintaining a calculated mineral profile in the wort.
In my opinion, by far the greatest impact on the quality of the beer goes to a healthy fermentation, and the wort chemistry is a large chunk of that (with fermentation temperature taking up another chunk). Being able to tune certain aspects of the brewing process so that the yeast have the best chance to create the flavor profile you are looking for is how good beers are made into great ones.

The Dedicated Mash System Process


For those who are looking to build a little complexity and knobs to their brewing day, I thought it would be helpful to add a chart to help visualize the steps in creating wort by BIAB and through a dedicated mash system. Given the fact there are so many kinds of builds, I will make the comparison with one system, a HERMS, or heat exchange recirculating mash system (which can essentially be considered a RIMS system for this example).

A Final Word


A move to a larger and more complex system always results in the creation of new issues you never had with a simpler process. While not every brewer will ever need to leave BIAB due to budget, time, or space constraints (or needs, for that matter), those who do should enter this world with the caveat that you may indeed lower the quality of the beer before it gets better, or until you get your new system down. That being said, I’ve never been happier with the beers I make with my all-grain system. I can look at my control box and know exactly what temperature things are at, control flow rates, chemistry, etc., and never have a doubt of what’s going into the boil kettle. With all the things that can go wrong from milling to pouring, this little bit of insurance makes me feel good. Almost as good as pouring a fresh glass.
Good luck!
mash-tun-2-f.jpg
 
"Growing Out of BIAB" - buy a bigger Bag.....
The system you use is irrelevant, you use what your comforatable and used to using. simple, complicated, or automated. because at the end of the day..... Brewers make Wort - Yeast makes Beer.
 
This!
Although I enjoy many of the articles published here, I've started to notice some apparent confusion between single vessel, full volume (aka no sparge) and BIAB brewing. They are not different terms for the same thing but they seem to be used interchangeably in some articles.
 
I used to BIAB but hated dealing with the hot and heavy bag of malt. My efficiency also was less.
I like the efficiency and clear Wort that occurs with my fly sparge system and false bottom.
 
are there any articles available as to why plastic is better than glass???
 
I graduated from 2 vessel brewing to BIAB a couple years ago and haven't looked back. Efficiency went up because i could crush very fine. BIAB and my own grain mill put my efficiency from ~60% up to the high 70's. Where i used to buy 15lbs of grain, I now buy 10 or 11.
Unless you are doing multi step or decoction mashes I don't see a need for anything but BIAB. Even so you can still add water to do various steps.
 
I brew 10-15 gallon BIAB batches, lifting 40lb grain bills certainly requires a hoist of some kind, but it's not that big of a deal at all. I've done 15 gallon batches of 1.10+ OG Beers without an issue in my system, I see no reason to add a dedicated mash tun.
I never squeeze the grain bag, just not worth it, hang it, let it drip into the kettle.
 
http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/16/fermentor-type-pt-2-plastic-pet-vs-glass-carboy-exbeeriment-results/
How's this? This exbeeriment blog actually has accurate info too...
(I know you were being sarcastic)
 
I don't understand your last paragraph. All of my brews are multi step mashes on BIAB and decoctions are no problem either.
 
Technically, I suppose it is 2 vessel, since it requires more than one vessel, but I don't know if its a "typical" 2 vessel setup, at least compared to a lot of setups I've seen. It is very low tech, indeed (no pumps, valves, etc.). I mash in a cooler with a typical mash ratio like many do. I then pull the bag, drain and squeeze the bag. I then empty that wort over to the kettle or separate spare pot, then do the batch sparge back in the same cooler with new water with enough water needed for pre-poil volume, combine the two volumes, and commence boil. So - yes, I pull the bag of grains out, rather than transferring via a valve.
As stated previously, I usually have to subtract a little grain from most recipes with my process, as I hit ~ 80-85% efficiency.
 
It takes a lot of effort to compose and submit an article. Whither due to editing or lack of research this one is not factual. This belongs in a forum discussion not Titled as it is and put on front page. I have done BiaB over two years after a few extract brews and continue to improve with each batch - usually. But the article could have left me thinking I was misplacing my efforts and money. Thanks for the effective rebuttals in the replies.
I am happy to continue to tweak my BiaB system. Now, if i can just duplicate that awesome Kolsch I brewed in Feb!
 
It was surprising to see an article with this many "factual" issues...
I use full volume BIAB, 16 gallon pot with propane burner. 90 minute mash and 90 min boil normally. No need for a separate sparge since doing a full volume mash with adequate time for water to grain contact. I don't think much is different from how I do it today compared to the way Pat Hollingsdale and the other Australian pioneers popularized the method a decade or so ago.
19 batches over past 18 months. Efficiency Into Boil ranges from 80-90% normally...and have been in the low 90s a couple times. Would have to review paperwork but may have had one batch as low as 78%. Normal is 83 to 86 percent or so...reliably!
eBIAB and more elaborate systems seem cool... If BIAB didn't exist I would probably be making beer with another method, but efficiencies and more importantly beer quality are both very high with traditional Full Volume BIAB. I don't hear any higher efficiency #s with any of the other methods. Much simpler and don't see a reason to have more equipment to clean.
Writing an article you do have to put yourself out there...and that's a little scary. But like most everyone has pointed out, the article is full of factual holes. The author does not understand BIAB, and his information presented about BIAB does not correspond to anything I've experienced.
 
"I regretfully have only done a few BIAB batches in my time"
Whelp, then you shouldn't be writing an article with incorrect facts on it and inferring that it is inferior to multi-vessel.
I brew with a Grainfather, which is basically BIAB, with a basket/malt tube instead of the bag. I get over 90% mash efficiency regularly. It maintains my mash temperature more precisely than a cooler based system would.
You talk about water chemistry like it's different with BIAB. It's the same water. You can control the chemistry the same ways.
You can Sparge in BIAB the same way you can in multi-vessel.
BIAB/Single Vessel is just as good or better than multi-vessel in nearly all ways. The only reason I would see it not being as good is in large commercial breweries where the Vessel sizes are so large it would be impractical to hoist or strain the grains out of the mash vessel in some way to use the same vessel as the boil vessel. You get the same beer out of it.
All articles like this do is confuse people new to the hobby that are looking to get into All-Grain brewing into thinking if they want to go all grain they need a lot more expensive equipment than they really need. It implies that the quality of the beer will be lower, which is simply not true. This should have never made it to the front page.
 
My traditional 3-vessel system sits on the shelf a lot more lately while I run a quick BIAB batch on a Saturday afternoon, so I guess I would have to pile-on and disagree with the premise of this article. For reasons of time and ease of set-up/clean-up, I have moved from brewing on a traditional system to BIAB for most of my lower-gravity beers. I had gotten the sense over time, mainly from forums, that BIAB was inferior to traditional all-grain brewing, but due to time constraints (young kids, their sports, and all that) and ease of use, I started experimenting with BIAB about a year ago; and you know what, my recipes taste the same in BIAB as traditional 3-vessel brewing. It took a few batches to dial-in the process, but to my surprise, efficiency is consistently higher than the software I use predicts for BIAB (still scratching my head on this), and the beer is coming out really good. I still break out the liquor tank and mash tun and run a fly sparge from time to time, but I'm all in for BIAB at this point as a great alternative to the traditional 3 vessel system. I'm also advocating BIAB to newcomers as an easier way into all-grain if they don't want to spend all the dough on a traditional system right away. Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm certainly not that high doing BIAB, though I do not sparge at all, just squeeze that sucker out. I like to do one simple water addition at the start and leave it be. Certainly makes the day easier, but hurts on efficiency no doubt...
 
That which I consistently read in this blog site is that BIAB benefits from using a finer grind of the grain mix than for 3 vessel setups. I buy my grains from our local brew shop who also provide the grain mill. When I asked whether I could have their mill set to a finer crush I got an emphatic NO. They couldn't even tell me what it was preset to. As I also make my own craft breads I already own a grain mill for grinding wheat berries. There are many berries that should never go through such a bakers mill because they leave an oily residue which clogs up the internal abrasion wheels. Also the mill does not have any precific milling sizes, just variations from fine to coarse. I use "fine" for my wheat flour. So I have two decisions to make. Whether or not to risk using (ruining) it and the trial and error of what setting to use. With that said, even on the coarse setting my wheat flour is much finer that the barley mix provided by the shop's equipment. So to ramp up my BIAB technique should my next purchase be for a Brewers grain mill rather than a RIMS pump?
 
Back
Top