I'm imagining chewing on a white grape and still having troubles to connect this to any beer I've tasted.
I'm imagining chewing on a white grape and still having troubles to connect this to any beer I've tasted.
I've gotten it in one marzen that I brewed. Warm fermented 34/70.
I get it.... it's always from the crisp German pilsners. AND I would also describe it as like an ice wine flavour with no sweetnessCan you find something like THIS in your supermarket? THIS is what I am talking about. The flavor is more concentrated than just by eating the grapes alone.
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Maybe this is a thing.I tried two warm ferment 34/70 that had the white grape / pear / peach ester.
Is this the same white grape/wine that people get from WLP029?
I’ve experienced the grape character from breweries not using sauergut or lodo practices. I do believe it’s lactic acid related but you don’t need sauergut to produce it. A large addition of lactic acid at the end of the boil to get KO ph to 5.0 (or under) plus good malt and a cold clean lager ferment will get you there.
It is definitely the Weyermann pilsner malt. It has been debated in this thread, but last week I was mashing a maibock with 67% Weyerman pilsner and 33% Weyermann light Munich and I could smell a distinct grape aroma in the mash, no yeast no hops yet. I had suspected the Weyermann pilsner because of other similarly based beers, but now I am convinced that that is what is causing it. By the way, I love it.
I don't think that is the "it" factor. I use weyermann malts for the majority of my base malts, and did a pilsner with 100% weyerman pilsner malt, and did not get the grape flavor (using wyeast 2278 czech pils yeast).It is definitely the Weyermann pilsner malt. It has been debated in this thread, but last week I was mashing a maibock with 67% Weyerman pilsner and 33% Weyermann light Munich and I could smell a distinct grape aroma in the mash, no yeast no hops yet. I had suspected the Weyermann pilsner because of other similarly based beers, but now I am convinced that that is what is causing it. By the way, I love it.
No, I don't think it is "it" either. I'm not a LODOer, though I do incorporate many of their common sense processes. Most notably here is that I do not boil the snot out of my beers. I boil with the wort covered completely (with a condenser) so the wort is just rolling. Other Lodo processes, such as underletting probably help to retain the character as well. So, you may want to rethink your whole process.I don't think that is the "it" factor. I use weyermann malts for the majority of my base malts, and did a pilsner with 100% weyerman pilsner malt, and did not get the grape flavor (using wyeast 2278 czech pils yeast).
I'd be interested to hear the rest of your Maibock details. Mash, yeast, fermentation temp, etc.
I just ordered some more 34/70. It's the only yeast I've gotten the grape flavor with. That was in a marzen with 40% vienna, 40% munich, and 20% pilsner, all weyermann. It was warm fermented with 34/70. I have re-brewed this twice now, once with 34/70 at lager temps, and once with omega bayern lager yeast. Neither of those had the grape flavor, and I want it back.
If you haven't picked up on the grape character in Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, you clearly have an abysmal palate, and furthermore, a hastily carved jack-o-lantern with a pink pearl eraser for a tongue would handily put you to shame.In the new June-July issue of Craft Beer & Brewing magazine, head brewer Daniel Carey from New Glarus is giving his "pick six" beer choices and he describes Kulmbacher Edelherb PIls this way:
"I have a soft spot for Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, these days sold as Edelherb. I drank a lot of it during the cold winter of 1997 in Selb, near the Czech border. At that time, Reichelbräu Pils was made with Alexis barley--a clean, grapey malt. Alexis was a breakthrough for German breeders....."
I honestly can't say I've noticed that flavor myself (I don' think my palate is that refined), but another data point for those of you on the quest for that grape flavor.
I meant in general I’ve never noticed it. I’ve never had that beer but I am going to seek it out and look for that grape flavor.If you haven't picked up on the grape character in Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, you clearly have an abysmal palate, and furthermore, a hastily carved jack-o-lantern with a pink pearl eraser for a tongue would handily put you to shame.
Shame.
.
Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey'...I meant in general I’ve never noticed it. I’ve never had that beer but I am going to seek it out and look for that grape flavor.
Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey
There is a rauchbier fanatic here somewhere, he's full of great info...I drink a lot of Rauchbiers so I’m more looking for that ham and bean soup thing myself.
Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey'...
I lived in Germany for some years and this character alone is how I would pick out authentic German pilseners.
Well damn now I think my palate is numb.I think I know what you are talking about with the pea/lentil thing. This is a different character entirely from the grape.
Don't you worry, you're not alone. I get tons of pea/lentil flavours but have yet to find a single grape in my beer.... And I'm German. I thought I had it once, but I think it was just the grainy flavour, not the grape. I don't know.... It's the mystery flavour everybody can use when tasting something which is completely out of context .Well damn now I think my palate is numb.
I've brewed with hallertau blanc several times and have picked up on the white wine notes it brings, could it be that the grapey thing is a hops flavor?
Well damn now I think my palate is numb.
I've brewed with hallertau blanc several times and have picked up on the white wine notes it brings, could it be that the grapey thing is a hops flavor?
Which beer is the grapiest to you?Even the Hallertau Blanc and Nelson Sauvin grapey flavors are not the same as I get from certain German lagers. The grapiest flavor is not from hops but from malt or yeast.
I dunno. It's more like they either have it, or they don't. Many many German lagers have this character, but often it's even from fresh American versions. Gordon Biersch Golden Export springs to mind. Cigar City Lager has it. There were several I found in Charlotte, NC; the grapiest one there was Town Brewing's Soma Pils. The lagers from Indeed Brewing have got it. Copper State Kupfer Kolsch is a local one from Green Bay, WI packed with grapey. I am finding hidden gems scattered all over the USA. Most beer nerds don't seem to care about grapey. I actively seek these out. I try the palest lager every place I go in the hopes that it's got "it". About 7/8 of them don't, but 1/8 do. Somewhere in that ballpark, for American versions. From Germany, it's closer to maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that have it, the rest do not.Which beer is the grapiest to you?
Which German one does definitely have it?I dunno. It's more like they either have it, or they don't. Many many German lagers have this character, but often it's even from fresh American versions. Gordon Biersch Golden Export springs to mind. Cigar City Lager has it. There were several I found in Charlotte, NC; the grapiest one there was Town Brewing's Soma Pils. The lagers from Indeed Brewing have got it. Copper State Kupfer Kolsch is a local one from Green Bay, WI packed with grapey. I am finding hidden gems scattered all over the USA. Most beer nerds don't seem to care about grapey. I actively seek these out. I try the palest lager every place I go in the hopes that it's got "it". About 7/8 of them don't, but 1/8 do. Somewhere in that ballpark, for American versions. From Germany, it's closer to maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that have it, the rest do not.
As a Germen you'll understand what I mean even better, that flavor is more specifically reminiscent of erbswurst.Don't you worry, you're not alone. I get tons of pea/lentil flavours but have yet to find a single grape in my beer.... And I'm German.
Which German one does definitely have it?
I'll buy one and see if I can figure this one out finally, thanks!Had to check my notes... the only one where I definitely said "grapey" in my tasting notes was Veltins Pilsener. I know I've tasted grape many many times but just never usually write it down.
We should create a new thread about how to wurst-infuse a cold brew coffee vanilla milkshake stout properly.As a Germen you'll understand what I mean even better, that flavor is more specifically reminiscent of erbswurst.
I've thought about doing a white stout infused with green coffee beans, nutmeg and parsley to pair perfectly with a breakfast of weisswurst.We should create a new thread about how to wurst-infuse a cold brew coffee vanilla milkshake stout properly.
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