Grape flavor in German beer?

[Franktalk]

I just tapped a Maibock that was brewed on February 16th, and the grape flavor/aroma is loud and clear. And, furthermore, I hope it doesn't go away.

 

[Witherby]

In the new June-July issue of Craft Beer & Brewing magazine, head brewer Daniel Carey from New Glarus is giving his "pick six" beer choices and he describes Kulmbacher Edelherb PIls this way:

"I have a soft spot for Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, these days sold as Edelherb. I drank a lot of it during the cold winter of 1997 in Selb, near the Czech border. At that time, Reichelbräu Pils was made with Alexis barley--a clean, grapey malt. Alexis was a breakthrough for German breeders....."

I honestly can't say I've noticed that flavor myself (I don' think my palate is that refined), but another data point for those of you on the quest for that grape flavor.

 

[Jayjay1976]

In the new June-July issue of Craft Beer & Brewing magazine, head brewer Daniel Carey from New Glarus is giving his "pick six" beer choices and he describes Kulmbacher Edelherb PIls this way:

"I have a soft spot for Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, these days sold as Edelherb. I drank a lot of it during the cold winter of 1997 in Selb, near the Czech border. At that time, Reichelbräu Pils was made with Alexis barley--a clean, grapey malt. Alexis was a breakthrough for German breeders....."

I honestly can't say I've noticed that flavor myself (I don' think my palate is that refined), but another data point for those of you on the quest for that grape flavor.

If you haven't picked up on the grape character in Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, you clearly have an abysmal palate, and furthermore, a hastily carved jack-o-lantern with a pink pearl eraser for a tongue would handily put you to shame.





Shame.





.

 

[Witherby]

If you haven't picked up on the grape character in Kulmbacher Reichelbräu Pils, you clearly have an abysmal palate, and furthermore, a hastily carved jack-o-lantern with a pink pearl eraser for a tongue would handily put you to shame.





Shame.





.

I meant in general I’ve never noticed it. I’ve never had that beer but I am going to seek it out and look for that grape flavor.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I meant in general I’ve never noticed it. I’ve never had that beer but I am going to seek it out and look for that grape flavor.

Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey'...

I lived in Germany for some years and this character alone is how I would pick out authentic German pilseners.

 

[Witherby]

Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey

I drink a lot of Rauchbiers so I’m more looking for that ham and bean soup thing myself.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I drink a lot of Rauchbiers so I’m more looking for that ham and bean soup thing myself.

There is a rauchbier fanatic here somewhere, he's full of great info...

@Schlenkerla

Haven't seen him in a while, hope he's okay.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yeah TBH me neither. I get more of a split pea/lentil impression from what I assume others are descibing as 'grapey'...

I lived in Germany for some years and this character alone is how I would pick out authentic German pilseners.

I think I know what you are talking about with the pea/lentil thing. This is a different character entirely from the grape.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I think I know what you are talking about with the pea/lentil thing. This is a different character entirely from the grape.

Well damn now I think my palate is numb.

I've brewed with hallertau blanc several times and have picked up on the white wine notes it brings, could it be that the grapey thing is a hops flavor?

 

[Miraculix]

Well damn now I think my palate is numb.

I've brewed with hallertau blanc several times and have picked up on the white wine notes it brings, could it be that the grapey thing is a hops flavor?

Don't you worry, you're not alone. I get tons of pea/lentil flavours but have yet to find a single grape in my beer.... And I'm German. I thought I had it once, but I think it was just the grainy flavour, not the grape. I don't know.... It's the mystery flavour everybody can use when tasting something which is completely out of context .

 

[dmtaylor]

Well damn now I think my palate is numb.

I've brewed with hallertau blanc several times and have picked up on the white wine notes it brings, could it be that the grapey thing is a hops flavor?

Even the Hallertau Blanc and Nelson Sauvin grapey flavors are not the same as I get from certain German lagers. The grapiest flavor is not from hops but from malt or yeast... or bacteria?! which would no doubt be prior to boil, no longer present in the finished beer, not "contaminated".

 

[Miraculix]

Even the Hallertau Blanc and Nelson Sauvin grapey flavors are not the same as I get from certain German lagers. The grapiest flavor is not from hops but from malt or yeast.

Which beer is the grapiest to you?

 

[dmtaylor]

Which beer is the grapiest to you?

I dunno. It's more like they either have it, or they don't. Many many German lagers have this character, but often it's even from fresh American versions. Gordon Biersch Golden Export springs to mind. Cigar City Lager has it. There were several I found in Charlotte, NC; the grapiest one there was Town Brewing's Soma Pils. The lagers from Indeed Brewing have got it. Copper State Kupfer Kolsch is a local one from Green Bay, WI packed with grapey. I am finding hidden gems scattered all over the USA. Most beer nerds don't seem to care about grapey. I actively seek these out. I try the palest lager every place I go in the hopes that it's got "it". About 7/8 of them don't, but 1/8 do. Somewhere in that ballpark, for American versions. From Germany, it's closer to maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that have it, the rest do not.

 

[Miraculix]

I dunno. It's more like they either have it, or they don't. Many many German lagers have this character, but often it's even from fresh American versions. Gordon Biersch Golden Export springs to mind. Cigar City Lager has it. There were several I found in Charlotte, NC; the grapiest one there was Town Brewing's Soma Pils. The lagers from Indeed Brewing have got it. Copper State Kupfer Kolsch is a local one from Green Bay, WI packed with grapey. I am finding hidden gems scattered all over the USA. Most beer nerds don't seem to care about grapey. I actively seek these out. I try the palest lager every place I go in the hopes that it's got "it". About 7/8 of them don't, but 1/8 do. Somewhere in that ballpark, for American versions. From Germany, it's closer to maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that have it, the rest do not.

Which German one does definitely have it?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Don't you worry, you're not alone. I get tons of pea/lentil flavours but have yet to find a single grape in my beer.... And I'm German.

As a Germen you'll understand what I mean even better, that flavor is more specifically reminiscent of erbswurst.

 

[dmtaylor]

Which German one does definitely have it?

Had to check my notes... the only one where I definitely said "grapey" in my tasting notes was Veltins Pilsener. I know I've tasted grape many many times but just never usually write it down.

 

[seilenos]

A buddy of mine got me a German Beer Advent calendar last year and many had this common flavor.

For whatever reason I adopted the term "vinous" for this flavor because there was some aspect that reminded me of white wine, but sweet. Looking back at my Untappd, I would tag them with "sweet".
I am guessing that this the flavor that is the subject of this thread and "grape" makes much more sense.

 

[Miraculix]

Had to check my notes... the only one where I definitely said "grapey" in my tasting notes was Veltins Pilsener. I know I've tasted grape many many times but just never usually write it down.

I'll buy one and see if I can figure this one out finally, thanks!

 

[Miraculix]

As a Germen you'll understand what I mean even better, that flavor is more specifically reminiscent of erbswurst.

We should create a new thread about how to wurst-infuse a cold brew coffee vanilla milkshake stout properly.

 

[Jayjay1976]

We should create a new thread about how to wurst-infuse a cold brew coffee vanilla milkshake stout properly.

I've thought about doing a white stout infused with green coffee beans, nutmeg and parsley to pair perfectly with a breakfast of weisswurst.

 

[AzOr]

For those of you Trader Joe’s shoppers, is the grape thing something you pick up from Peter’s Brand Dutch Lager?
I would describe it as more pear but could be talked into grape. I get loads of it in this beer. It’s been my go to camping beer for years.

 

[monkeymath]

Since I saw this discussion, I've been looking for that flavour whenever I had a German lager. Approaching the beer in this manner, I think I sometimes picked up the flavour you guys are talking about - or at least I made myself believe I did.

Namely I found it twice in Tegernseer Hell and once in Augustiner Hell, on tap. I also had Augustiner on tap in two other locations where I couldn't find that flavour - and in both these cases, I didn't enjoy the beer quite as much.

It might be a phantom or it might not be the same thing everyone here is referring to, but in the way I perceived it, the flavour kicks in early when you take a sip, as soon as the slight tingle of carbonation subsides. I'd describe the sensation primarily as "fresh" or "bright", but with the whole grape-thing in mind, that seems to describe it quite well. In fact, I had a glass of Weißburgunder last night and I thought this was quite a good match.

 

[dmtaylor]

Which German one does definitely have it?

Oh, you know... now I recall Konig Pilsener had a lovely grape flavor, tasted that one a few months ago and wish I could find it sold around here so I could buy a case or two.

Right now I am drinking a Veltins Grevensteiner, and while it is a good beer, it really does not have this character.

 

[Miraculix]

Oh, you know... now I recall Konig Pilsener had a lovely grape flavor, tasted that one a few months ago and wish I could find it sold around here so I could buy a case or two.

Right now I am drinking a Veltins Grevensteiner, and while it is a good beer, it really does not have this character.

Köpi. Ok, I'll get myself one. Thanks!

 

[wepeeler]

I've done 3 beers with Lutra so far, and got the white wine/grape flavor in all of them using Weyermann malt. Only ever used Weyermann Pils for my light beers and never got white wine/grape in any of them before, so my guess is it may be present in the malt, but yeast have a lot to do with the flavor.

95% Weyermann Pils
5% Carafoam

Lutra worked better with Hallertau Mittelfruh than with Saaz IMO. I fermented at 72, then 75 to finish. Both tasted more American Lager-ish than German Lager-ish.

 

[Miraculix]

Got myself a Veltins and am pretty sure that I know now what you mean. I would describe this flavour as grain flavour. Or, to be more specific, barley flavour. This taste comes out of the pot when I boil pearl barley, I'm pretty sure it's the flavour you guys are referring to. Has nothing at all to do with real grapes (the wine ones), if you ask me. Maybe the description comes from grape nuts, which are, as far as I understand, a type of cereal?

 

[Bassman2003]

DM's post said Veltins did not have the flavor... The flavor is like grape juice or even a bit of grape jelly. Sounds odd paired with beer but that is the flavor. I do not think it is grain related or it would show up more often in all beer styles. Seems pretty straight forward that the flavor comes from the use of sauergut in German brewing. They are pretty much the only folks who use sauergut and are the only ones to produce commercial beer examples with the grape flavor in my experience.

I have never picked up the flavor in the cereal Grape Nuts.

 

[Miraculix]

DM's post said Veltins did not have the flavor... The flavor is like grape juice or even a bit of grape jelly. Sounds odd paired with beer but that is the flavor. I do not think it is grain related or it would show up more often in all beer styles. Seems pretty straight forward that the flavor comes from the use of sauergut in German brewing. They are pretty much the only folks who use sauergut and are the only ones to produce commercial beer examples with the grape flavor in my experience.

I have never picked up the flavor in the cereal Grape Nuts.

He said veltins grevensteiner, that's a different beer! I think somebody mentioned the normal veltins here as a good example of the flavour.

 

[Bassman2003]

Sorry! I have tasted it in Warsteiner hell in the states here. Not sure if it is like that in the German-area product. Tough to relay flavors over the internet.

 

[monkeymath]

Wait, there's flavour in Warsteiner?! :O