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Probably inaccurate pH reading.
Never ever dump a beer because because of a reading from an instrument.

Hi there
Thanks for your reply.
Its dropped from 1.070 to 1.050 in 24 hrs too.
Im getting more of a lactic after taste than a souring.
It actually tastes good at the moment so may let it ride.
Do you think I should dry hop now to stop any further ph drop?
 
Hi there
Thanks for your reply.
Its dropped from 1.070 to 1.050 in 24 hrs too.
Im getting more of a lactic after taste than a souring.
It actually tastes good at the moment so may let it ride.
Do you think I should dry hop now to stop any further ph drop?
I'd be inclined to let it sour a bit longer.
 
Thank you for this great thread RPh_Guy! After reading it last month I was inspired and changed up my plans and decided that the milk stout I was planning to brew would be a sour chocolate raspberry milk stout instead. Copitched a pill of lacto planetarum and lalbrew voss kveik and after three days of primary fermentation at 90f I added a fuggles hop tea to stop the lacto and added 3lbs of raspberries and some cocoa nibs I had been soaking in vodka. It had me worried at times during the fermentation as there were some pretty funky smells being generated, but it turned out exactly as I had hoped! More importantly my wife loved it when I had her try it and said it reminded her of the fruited sour stout that one of our favourite local craft breweries makes.
6084967C-3E85-445B-8903-0C7F0F11886F.jpeg
 
Fast souring in the Covid time. I took 1 cup of my sourdough starter and pitched into a berliner weisse malt bill, no hops. It fermented out in 2 days at 76F. Transferred the beer to secondary on andean mora fruit pulp. Also fermented out in 2 days. Sampled it yesterday and it was yummy.

20200811_101527.jpg
 
I made ten gallons last weekend, 8/11, 50% pilsner 50% wheat, 1.040 sg. Added goodbelly drink and 1/2 pack lalbrew Voss kviek yeast to each.

3pm Saturday:
IMG_20200808_151348074.jpg


7 am Sunday:
IMG_20200809_195129538.jpg


That yeast wants it warm, so I put hot water in the tub, and Monday afternoon added pureed fruit to one. Here is Tuesday morning:

IMG_20200810_203534474.jpg


The plain batch has been done for a few days, I just wanted it a little more sour. I tried it today, both of them are perfect. The plain one has a very good tart sourness, a little orangey flavor from that yeast. The fruited one is similar to a tart wine. Very excited about that one. Added hop tea of 1/2 oz Citra to each, will keg in a day or two when I get some empty kegs. This WILL be the best sour I've ever made, and it was SO easy.
 
Well I recalibrated my pH meter and its now down to 2.5.
But it's tasting amazing, getting some nice funky aromas popping through and it has that tingly fizzy feeling.
I'm wondering if my pH meter was out when I added the lactic to 4.5
Think I may let it ride a few more days before hopping, will more funk come out the longer I leave it??
Still bloody bizarre how it's not toe curlingly sour at 2.5 but I'm digging it.
 
Well this beer came out great in the end. A lot more flavour from the brett than i was expecting. A lot more complex than my previous sach/lacto mixed fermentations. The aroma is very enticing, i keep smelling the glass with every sip. I did not have super high hopes for this at first but its improved very fast and is a most enjoyable beer. I cant wait to share it with some friends. Most happy indeed with this. Next batch will be 100% brett and more hops. Apologies for the filthy glassware.
DSC_0276.JPG
 
I made ten gallons last weekend, 8/11, 50% pilsner 50% wheat, 1.040 sg. Added goodbelly drink and 1/2 pack lalbrew Voss kviek yeast to each.

3pm Saturday:
View attachment 694359

7 am Sunday:
View attachment 694361

That yeast wants it warm, so I put hot water in the tub, and Monday afternoon added pureed fruit to one. Here is Tuesday morning:

View attachment 694360

The plain batch has been done for a few days, I just wanted it a little more sour. I tried it today, both of them are perfect. The plain one has a very good tart sourness, a little orangey flavor from that yeast. The fruited one is similar to a tart wine. Very excited about that one. Added hop tea of 1/2 oz Citra to each, will keg in a day or two when I get some empty kegs. This WILL be the best sour I've ever made, and it was SO easy.

Looking good, but you really need to get used to using blow off tubes! You may get lucky with the left one this time around, but believe me that it doesn't take much for those burpers to clog with sediment, and when that happens, you will have a murder scene in your bathroom.
 
Here is my hybrid co-pitch method beer. It's a Raspberry Sour, US-05.

It is the best sour I have made to date. My girlfriend agrees that it's "store-bought" quality. We actually went to a sour brewery a few days ago, and we sampled 14 sours. They are the best sour brewery in the area, and easily one of the best I have ever been to.

I will continue the hybrid method, because it's perfect for our taste.

117877427_10157633406514021_8859293898777582570_o.jpg
 
@RPh_Guy

I'm curious on your thoughts here. Our next beer will be a dark sour. We've loved some of the dark brett sours in our local sour brewery. I've never fermented with brett before, but I assume that this yeast is pretty easy to work with because it ferments at a higher temp?

Here's my grain bill. I am not going to use the lactose or the hops (obviously), and I may slightly reduce some of the chocolate grains so that the blackberry color would show up. Otherwise, I made this as a non-sour before and I thought it would be a killer base for a sour:

https://brewgr.com/recipe/83344/blackberry-black-ipa-54g-recipe?public=true
My idea is to make 10 gallons and ferment in two vessels. One vessel lacto + brett, the other vessel lacto + US-05. Is there any gotchas or anything I'm missing?
 
will more funk come out the longer I leave it??
Still bloody bizarre how it's not toe curlingly sour at 2.5 but I'm digging it.
In my experience some funk may develop over a couple weeks if you don't add hops.

I still don't believe that pH reading. Maybe your calibration solution is off. pH 2.5 is next to impossible, especially considering it doesn't taste super sour.

My idea is to make 10 gallons and ferment in two vessels. One vessel lacto + brett, the other vessel lacto + US-05. Is there any gotchas or anything I'm missing?
I'm not a fan of "Brett-only" fermentation. It's slow and unpredictable.
 
Do you have a method that's similar to the Co-pitch method in which Brett is used? Perhaps Brett being used in the secondary?

Primary: Lacto + US-05 (I guess?)
Secondary: Brett. Let it sit for several months.

I have no idea how to use brett, but I think it would be nice to have a write-up on how to do it to inject some of that funk into our sours. Brett goes super well with Dark beers. I just have no idea how to begin to use it or a process.
 
Interesting....so make a starter....and proceed with using it during secondary fermentation should work. Age for at least 2 months.
 
Here’s some bonus pics. I’m sure you’d love to go here. Read the ingredients. They are masters of experiments. Every ingredient is detectable.

2BCBD296-F678-456B-9561-61BEFEEAC0A7.jpeg

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Interesting....so make a starter....and proceed with using it during secondary fermentation should work. Age for at least 2 months.
My suggested process in a nutshell is make unhopped highly-fermentable wort, co-pitch Saccharomyces and Brettanomyces, and post-sour. It is designed to optimize speed and flavor.

Delaying the Brett will dramatically change the timeframe and the result.
 
So, in the middle of my first sour. 6 gallon batch. Co-pitched 2 capsules of L. plantarum along with A07 Flagship. Followed the rules: 2-row, wheat malt, a bit of acidulated. No hops. Strong fermentation, added 6 lbs of blueberry puree on day 3. Fermentation kicked in again for another 2 days. Sampled today (day 8)...FG 1.009 (OG 1.058), delicious, but not sour. Do I make a starter with L. plantarum (I have some calcium carbonate), just pitch another capsule or two, or let it ride for another week or so? Is there enough sugars left to sour? Maybe hop and add some acetic acid at kegging? Any help appreciated :). I do not have a pH meter...
 
Yes, you will have to make super sour starter. You will never get it to sour at this point (I tried many times). Once enough alcohol is present, then it's all over.

Take a look back at what I did for this same problem and follow those instructions, but probably divide by 2 since I was doing 12 gallons.

It worked out well for me. It's definitely not the same flavor that you'd get by co pitching, but it's funky and unmistakably sour. I feel the post souring method also will override yeast and fruit flavors more too. Assuming you're working with a 5G batch, 6 lbs of blueberries is not even close to being enough. Blueberries are part of the "2lb/ gallon" fruit group for brewing.

Sounds like your capsules were expired, or you didn't pitch enough. You're supposed to co-pitch 1-2 capsules per gallon. I also pour a decent amount of goodbelly in to. This pretty much assures a sour will happen, and fast.
 
Thanks...the capsules were from a brand new, previously unopened container. But may have been inactive. In the first post, RPh_Guy states 1-2 capsules per 5 gallons, maybe that's not enough. I'll do a starter next time and go the Goodbelly route, as well. I appreciate it!
 
A sample of my smoked wheat berliner weisse: fermented with a cup of sourdough starter and put into secondary with andean mora. 3.7 ABV and 3.01 pH. Does not taste as sour as the pH suggests; perhaps lower pH due to smoked wheat? Very tasty.
20200823_151159.jpg
 
So, in the middle of my first sour. 6 gallon batch. Co-pitched 2 capsules of L. plantarum along with A07 Flagship. Followed the rules: 2-row, wheat malt, a bit of acidulated. No hops. Strong fermentation, added 6 lbs of blueberry puree on day 3. Fermentation kicked in again for another 2 days. Sampled today (day 8)...FG 1.009 (OG 1.058), delicious, but not sour. Do I make a starter with L. plantarum (I have some calcium carbonate), just pitch another capsule or two, or let it ride for another week or so? Is there enough sugars left to sour? Maybe hop and add some acetic acid at kegging? Any help appreciated :). I do not have a pH meter...
Sorry about that. :( I do currently recommend making a starter for the Lacto since you're not the first one to have problems from the lack of it. I'll try to get a mod to update the first post (it's too old for me to edit).

Current and more comprehensive info is on my **************** wiki - sour beer.

This species can typically eat some of the residual dextrins, so it should sour if you leave it for another few days. Blending is another option, which @fendersrule mentioned.
 
Sorry about that. :( I do currently recommend making a starter for the Lacto since you're not the first one to have problems from the lack of it. I'll try to get a mod to update the first post (it's too old for me to edit).

I had same problems with my first batch when using store bought Lactobacillus plantarum capsules. I've brewed two co-souring batches since using Lallemand Sour Pitch without any problems. I would suspect that the Lacto capsules were not stored properly in the store where I bought them?
 
It's highly possible that some of those capsules can be stored on store shelves for too long. Always check expiration date before buying. They have around a 12-month lifespan I believe?

Also, if you want to avoid making a starter, simply just pitch non-expired store bought capsules AND about 12-16 ounces of good belly. I've done this for co-sour and post-souring (blending) and it's always taken off fast and tasted really good. Goodbelly is stored in the fridge in stores, and it works very well in beers. I want to say it's very cost effective as well.
 
I agree storage conditions are most likely the issue.

I see some stores refrigerating probiotic capsules, but even then it's possible for them to have been damaged earlier in the supply chain. GoodBelly isn't 100% consistent either. A starter is the only way to be sure the culture is viable and ready to go.
 
Thanks RPh_Guy for this thread. I've been following for a while and decided to give it a whirl.
I started with a basic grain bill, single step infusion mash with sparge to collect 5.5 gallons into the fermenter
3.5 lbs. 2-Row
4.5 lbs. Pilsner
2.0 lbs. White Wheat
0.4 lbs. Pale Cookie Malt
Boiled for about 15 minutes and chilled to pitch temps with a starting gravity of 1.050

I pitched 2 capsules (opened and sprinkled on the wort) of Swanson L. Plantarum and one packet of US-05 (opened and sprinkled on the wort)

Things were bubbling by the next morning and I let it go for 3 days before adding fruit.
When I went looking for frozen berries, I found 1 pound bags of mixed berries (raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and black raspberries) for under $2, so I bought 2.
When it came time to add them to the fermenter, I put the frozen bags on the concrete floor and bashed any lumps with a hammer for a few minutes.
I then dumped the contents into a sanitized hop sack in the fermenter. It took a little to get it to break through the 2-3 inches of dense krausen.

I wanted to see how sour it would get, especially since others were having issues, so I let it go for a week before checking on it.
I don't have a Ph meter, but it was/is sour (not just tart) and down to 1.018 so I dropped in an ounce of Falconers Flight and let the temp rise up to 70 degrees F to finish up.

I let it go for another week and it was down to 1.0075 and I kegged it a few days later.
20200826_171600.jpg


Super easy, really tasty and pretty.

Thanks again RPh_Guy!
 
Thanks RPh_Guy for this thread. I've been following for a while and decided to give it a whirl.
I started with a basic grain bill, single step infusion mash with sparge to collect 5.5 gallons into the fermenter
3.5 lbs. 2-Row
4.5 lbs. Pilsner
2.0 lbs. White Wheat
0.4 lbs. Pale Cookie Malt
Boiled for about 15 minutes and chilled to pitch temps with a starting gravity of 1.050

I pitched 2 capsules (opened and sprinkled on the wort) of Swanson L. Plantarum and one packet of US-05 (opened and sprinkled on the wort)

Things were bubbling by the next morning and I let it go for 3 days before adding fruit.
When I went looking for frozen berries, I found 1 pound bags of mixed berries (raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and black raspberries) for under $2, so I bought 2.
When it came time to add them to the fermenter, I put the frozen bags on the concrete floor and bashed any lumps with a hammer for a few minutes.
I then dumped the contents into a sanitized hop sack in the fermenter. It took a little to get it to break through the 2-3 inches of dense krausen.

I wanted to see how sour it would get, especially since others were having issues, so I let it go for a week before checking on it.
I don't have a Ph meter, but it was/is sour (not just tart) and down to 1.018 so I dropped in an ounce of Falconers Flight and let the temp rise up to 70 degrees F to finish up.

I let it go for another week and it was down to 1.0075 and I kegged it a few days later.
View attachment 695878

Super easy, really tasty and pretty.

Thanks again RPh_Guy!
That looks delish! How pronounced was the aroma and taste of the berries? I'm planning a similar brew but was gonna puree the frozen berries but will gladly skip that step if it's not needed.
 
That looks delish! How pronounced was the aroma and taste of the berries? I'm planning a similar brew but was gonna puree the frozen berries but will gladly skip that step if it's not needed.
I did really kind of puree it, I have a dead-blow hammer that was great at mashing the lumps without tearing the bag. Then I realized that it was going to be difficult to transfer and keep things mostly sanitary without losing any good stuff, so I held the hop sack open and poured the bags into the sack while holding it above the fermenter, so I wouldn't loose any liquid. I was amazed at how quickly they tinted the beer. I think next time I'll try to do the raspberries with lime zest recipe that's around the forum, but this was so easy and good.
I really like the aroma, nice berry nose, I don't notice any of the hops.
 
first co-pitched sour Berliner Weisse is in the keg

overall I'm happy with the result, and how easy it was to make

it's tart, but chuggable. My wife is decimating the keg.
Raspberry comes through, but next time I will double the fruit addition

the one thing I'm not thrilled about is the mouthfeel - it's a bit thinner than I wanted. Like an unsweetened hard cider thin body
How would you alter the recipe to build a more full "creamy/chewy" mouthfeel?
I can skip the 1g of gypsum and double the calcium chloride
skip the salt? Not sure it made a difference?
Pitch a less attenuation (non-diastatic) yeast strain? Like an English ale yeast instead of saison?
Halt the souring earlier by dry hopping?

here's a screenshot of the recipe. Deviations were:
-higher efficiency than expected, so ended up closer to 9 Brix OG
-I didn't bother to dry hop, just let it ride
-made a big 500mL starter with 2 capsules of Swanson L. Plantarum
-yeast starter from repitched Belle Saison slurry pitched at the same time
-24 oz of frozen raspberries in 4-gallon batch

berliner_weisse_recipe.png
 
@RPh_Guy

I owe you an update.

As I mentioned via documentation on this thread, I pre-soured for 14 hours because it being in the dead heat of summer and being most wort chillers cannot bring temp down to pitching temp, WHY NOT? It's a very fair question....

A recap: Pitched bugs at 6PM on Saturday @ 78F wort temp. Pitched Yeast at 3:00PM on Sunday @ 68F wort temp. I did not cool agressively here, just let it cool naturally with a couple ice packs. After this time, wort was kept 67-68F with US-05 during bulk of fermentation. Today, Wednesday, I tried a little sample. Sour, for sure! My first success with "copitching." It's not AGGRESSIVELY sour, but very much a sour! Fermentation is still 70% active, so not truly accurate because there are still sugars present, but accurate enough to know this will be steller sour ale.

Starting tomorrow (Thursday evening) I will add fruit additions and let it ferment again, further increasing sourness. The PH will drop naturally because raspberries will have a lower PH.

Dry hop next week sometime (optional). Bottle next weekend.

From this experience, I would add a new Wiki article. It gets into the details somewhat, but this is still a semi-copitch method at a 10,000 ft few. It brings reality into the equation. If brewing in the summer, you shouldn't fret about getting it down to yeast pitching temps. If you can only get to let's say, 80F from the kettle, pitch your damned Lacto, and the end of the next day if you have enough experience to know your wort will be cooled to whatever proper pitching temps of your yeast will be, you can easily pitch your yeast then. It gives you a head start.

Vice versa does not work very well. Pitching Yeast first, then Lacto doesn't work in my experience.

Nothing wrong with pitching Lacto a little bit prior. Better than leaving a container of wort doing nothing for 14 hours. It's a bit asinine even to do such a thing IF you can avoid it.

This sour will be REALLY good.....good enough that this method could be explored and talked about...

What to call it? Semi Co-pitch? Pre Co-pitch? Mostly Co-pitch?

It works.
I just re-read the Milk The Funk wiki on this and this is how they recommend doing it as well. Wort Souring

I'll eventually try both methods and see which one I like best. I like the idea of locking in ph and souring to taste first, and then fermenting out with Sacch for fruit-forward beers with a clean yeast. For non-fruited sours, I'm gonna try the post-sour method explained here and let the yeast come through.

And fenders def rule. My beat-up Tele is the only one for me.
 
My last batch has is down from 1040 to 1000 in 6 days. I used a large starter of WLP4203 beersel brett blend and 2ml of gluco. I have only just added the lacto so i wont be surprised if it does not do much. Its already pleasantly tart though so i am really looking forward to drinking this. Going to brew another tomorrow, make sure i get it really sour and possibly blend them. I have a lot of long term sours on the go now but its fantastic being able to do these, the brett has opened up a whole new world of flavour for me
 
first co-pitched sour Berliner Weisse is in the keg

overall I'm happy with the result, and how easy it was to make

it's tart, but chuggable. My wife is decimating the keg.
Raspberry comes through, but next time I will double the fruit addition

the one thing I'm not thrilled about is the mouthfeel - it's a bit thinner than I wanted. Like an unsweetened hard cider thin body
How would you alter the recipe to build a more full "creamy/chewy" mouthfeel?
I can skip the 1g of gypsum and double the calcium chloride
skip the salt? Not sure it made a difference?
Pitch a less attenuation (non-diastatic) yeast strain? Like an English ale yeast instead of saison?
Halt the souring earlier by dry hopping?

here's a screenshot of the recipe. Deviations were:
-higher efficiency than expected, so ended up closer to 9 Brix OG
-I didn't bother to dry hop, just let it ride
-made a big 500mL starter with 2 capsules of Swanson L. Plantarum
-yeast starter from repitched Belle Saison slurry pitched at the same time
-24 oz of frozen raspberries in 4-gallon batch

View attachment 695910
For improved mouthfeel I'd suggest adding around 10% of Flaked Oats. Or, as you mentioned, I think an English yeast will definitely help out with mouthfeel more than a saison yeast.
 
I'm trying to troubleshoot/improve for next time and have a few questions related to my latest batch. Would definitely love some feedback/suggestions.

Background:
Last weekend I brewed a hopless Gose for my first attempt at the modern co-sour method using Swanson's capsules. I had read this thread and made notes several months ago, before the first post was edited to recommend using a starter, so I pitched 3 capsules directly into my wort along with my Safale K97 (German Ale) yeast. The capsules expire 5/21 but were kept at room temp and mailed in the summer heat from Amazon, so who knows on the viability.​

Fermentation this week went as expected from the yeast behavior. I just bought a pH meter and took 1-2x daily readings, although I only calibrated on Sunday and this morning (Sat, 6 days later) so some readings may be off. pH started at 4.8 & steadily dropped then stalled at 3.6 +/- 0.1 (depending on calibration error) for the last 3 days (Thurs, Fri, Sat AM). On Fri I began to worry about a failed souring attempt.​

Daily tasting went from grainy/sweet to pleasantly bright but not tart while losing grain character. On Wed, I had added 4 oz of pasteurized pineapple juice that had been fortified with extra vitamin C. This caused about a 1 day uptick in fermentation vigor. Final gravity on this today was 1.002, with a quiet airlock.​

Today, HBT website was down so I couldn't post my questions and felt compelled to do something. So, I did closed pressure transfer to a purged carboy containing another 64 oz pineapple juice, 2 oz of several year old Amarillo and 1 oz several year old Mosaic hop pellets in a hop sack. My thought was to try to max out fruit character and if the old hops stop any remaining Lacto activity then I will add my own lactic acid at kegging.​
Questions

1. Moving back to the first pineapple juice addition. Could all of the extra vitamin C negatively affected the souring?​

2. On Friday, what would you all have done? I can't seem to find Goodbelly liquid in my town. Only the yogurt, which does not list L. plantarum on the label. I considered trying a starter with my capsules but didn't want to risk it failing if they are dead and waste my available beer time this weekend.​

3. Unrelated to my souring concerns but still on my mind.....What is the highest dry hopping rate you all have used with this method? I posted a thread on HBT about success of NE IPA hop rates (3-5 oz per gal) in sours trying for a fruit bomb and got well intended (and helpful) but didn't really get my question answered. So I backed it off a bit on the hops but still more than what I have seen discussed here.​

4. How much did the low FG potentially contribute to the stalled out souring? I thought it might so that is why I went with more juice and old hops in secondary, so the yeast and Lacto could eat more sugar and possibly still sour a little?​

Overall, I'm excited to drink this beer and think it will be tasty, just not what I had intended. TIA for your input.
 
I have not seen that with any beers I've made with fruit....

Did you pasteurize the fruit?

It also looks as though crushed fruits were just dropped straight into the fermenter. This method "usually" works, but isn't recommended. The problem is fruit will eventually float up where it is ripe for infection. I've done some ciders this way before and they came out fine, but there's likely going to be a chance you may be bitten eventually for doing it. Typically the "Co2 blanket" helps protect against this, but it isn't full proof...

Best method is to get some large muslin socks at your HBS and stick the crushed (and pasteurized) fruit into that. Also add some weights, a few pounds, to keep the fruit mash on the bottom. One tip for anyone: A cheap weighed object that is safe to use is a chrome trailer ball...they got for $8 and they add some serious weight. It is much cheaper than buying stainless washers that would even come close to weighing as much as a trailer :)
 
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I'm trying to troubleshoot/improve for next time and have a few questions related to my latest batch. Would definitely love some feedback/suggestions.

Expired is expired....room temp is not a great temp to store at. They should be stored in the fridge. I would chalk this up to using expired capsules.

Pouring pinapple juice will naturally slightly lower the PH. You'll probably find that your PH is slightly lower than 3.6 now.

Goodbelly is available everywhere where I'm located. All main grocery stores, and it's typically kept where the orange juice is. I've had 100% success rate pitching non-expired capsules (I do about 1-1.5 capsules per gallon) + I pour in about 8-12 ounces of goodbelly. I've never had a stalled souring doing it this way. Goodbelly is cheap insurance, plus it tastes really f#@ing good.

It's your choice if you want to do the post-souring (blending) method. If you read back on one of my latest post, I compared the taste outcomes between this method vs co-pitching. It will create a very strong Lactobacillus taste that does a great job in overriding almost everything (yeast, hops, and fruits). Since you have lots of "delicate" profiles in your beer, I would advise against blending and just be happy that you probably have something that's closest to a Gose the way you have now.

I've only had about 20 gose's in my life, so I am far from an expert on the their style. To me, they are a "weaker" sour (don't shoot me, just my opinion). Every gose I've had does not taste "sour" to me, but just tart. So I definitely would not blend at this point since that would totally not make it a gose anymore, and just enjoy what you have because it will probably be quite drinkable and you may already have something that's pretty close to the style you're after.

Whether or not you should blend with lactic acid I'll let rph answer. For a sour it simply won't work. A gose PH is 3.2-3.6, so you already are in the range, and probably slightly more so now that you added pineapple juice. So my answer is do not add lactic acid at this point. Proceed to packaging.
 
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I've only had about 20 gose's in my life, so I am far from an expert on the their style. To me, they are a "weaker" sour (don't shoot me, just my opinion). Every gose I've had does not taste "sour" to me, but just tart. So I definitely would not blend at this point since that would totally not make it a gose anymore, and just enjoy what you have because it will probably be quite drinkable and you may already have something that's pretty close to the style you're after.

Whether or not you should blend with lactic acid I'll let rph answer. For a sour it simply won't work. A gose PH is 3.2-3.6, so you already are in the range, and probably slightly more so now that you added pineapple juice. So my answer is do not add lactic acid at this point. Proceed to packaging.

Thanks. You make some good points, especially about the sourness of a gose. I do think I'll be pretty happy with what I have without adding Lactic Acid or blending. I'll have to do another run through for Goodbelly at my local stores' OJ section.

I'm sure you are right about the capsules being expired. My biggest question with that assumption, though, is if the capsules were completely no good why would the pH drop from 4.8 to 3.6 before the first pineapple juice and then stay the same after? I may try a starter with the capsules now, just to see what happens with it.

I would be curious to hear rph's and other's thoughts about if the low FG affects the souring ability. Especially on a wort mashed to be highly fermentable (145-149 for 90 minutes; OG was 1.042). I'm wondering if there would not be not enough dextrins left for the lacto to eat after all the simple sugars are gone. Just some thoughts, maybe there isn't a straight forward answer.
 
Thanks. You make some good points, especially about the sourness of a gose. I do think I'll be pretty happy with what I have without adding Lactic Acid or blending. I'll have to do another run through for Goodbelly at my local stores' OJ section.

I'm sure you are right about the capsules being expired. My biggest question with that assumption, though, is if the capsules were completely no good why would the pH drop from 4.8 to 3.6 before the first pineapple juice and then stay the same after? I may try a starter with the capsules now, just to see what happens with it.

I would be curious to hear rph's and other's thoughts about if the low FG affects the souring ability. Especially on a wort mashed to be highly fermentable (145-149 for 90 minutes; OG was 1.042). I'm wondering if there would not be not enough dextrins left for the lacto to eat after all the simple sugars are gone. Just some thoughts, maybe there isn't a straight forward answer.

PH will fall naturally during fermentation.
 
I just re-read the Milk The Funk wiki on this and this is how they recommend doing it as well. Wort Souring
What we're doing here isn't "wort souring".
There are numerous advantages to these co-souring (beer souring) methods versus souring wort.

Could all of the extra vitamin C negatively affected the souring?
Not at all.

On Friday, what would you all have done? I can't seem to find Goodbelly liquid in my town. Only the yogurt, which does not list L. plantarum on the label. I considered trying a starter with my capsules but didn't want to risk it failing if they are dead and waste my available beer time this weekend.
I would have given it the benefit of the doubt and made a starter.

How much did the low FG potentially contribute to the stalled out souring? I thought it might so that is why I went with more juice and old hops in secondary, so the yeast and Lacto could eat more sugar and possibly still sour a little?
The bacteria definitely need a significant amount of sugar to produce lactic acid. However this species of bacteria can possibly ferment dextrins that the yeast leaves behind. Perhaps it would have soured if given more time without hops.

Hops will prevent any further souring, new or old.

Personally I haven't used any more than about 0.75-1oz of hops per 5 gal.

My thought was to try to max out fruit character and if the old hops stop any remaining Lacto activity then I will add my own lactic acid at kegging.
Personally I would never add straight lactic acid to achieve a sour taste. However, if you're considering it, I would suggest a bench trial before adding it to the whole batch. FYI sour beer generally contains about 0.8-2.5% lactic acid.

I hope I covered all your questions.

It's your choice if you want to do the post-souring (blending) method.
Post-souring is not blending. Theses are very different methods, and will give different results.

Fruit been in a few, weeks.
IsView attachment 697065 this natural?????
Fruit has lots of wild microbes, the source of the pellicle. I generally recommend pasteurizing the fruit to avoid these contaminations. If you're bottling, be careful to monitor for over-carbonation.

Cheers
 
ShaLaH said:
I just re-read the Milk The Funk wiki on this and this is how they recommend doing it as well. Wort Souring
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Wort_Souring#Souring_in_the_Primary_Fermenter
What we're doing here isn't "wort souring".
There are numerous advantages to these co-souring (beer souring) methods versus souring wort.

The link I posted is for the co-souring method from the Milk the Funk wiki. They suggest adding LAB first and crash cooling (or dry hopping) once you hit your desired sourness. Then adding primary yeast such as Sacch or Brett for regular fermentation. Sorry for the confusion. I have a non-fruited sour fermenting right now using kveik yeast using this co-sour (LAB, then SACCH) method, I have to say, the samples taste as good as any sour beer I've ever had.

RPh_Guy - I just want to say thank you for all the info and knowledge you've shared with all of us, very appreciative of the time you've dedicated to helping educate us. You deserve a lifetime homebrewers achievement award or something.
 
Personally I would never add straight lactic acid to achieve a sour taste. However, if you're considering it, I would suggest a bench trial before adding it to the whole batch. FYI sour beer generally contains about 0.8-2.5% lactic acid.

Thank you. Yes, that answers my questions. Lesson learned, make a starter.

FWIW, I've done the lactic acid bench trial and soured 3 or 4 clean beers that way. 1.5 to 2 ml per bottle makes a decent sour, though I'm sure not as nuanced as a real sour. My tasting notes from the bench trial are in this linked thread if anyone is interested.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/my-first-gose.478942/
 

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