The Point is that it tastes British.Yeah it's all personal taste. Proper Job contains US hops though!
The Point is that it tastes British.Yeah it's all personal taste. Proper Job contains US hops though!
I think it's a spectrum. It has American Chinook, Cascade and Willamette hops in it! And I think you can tell. But it's not overtly American, it's a very English kind of beer, especially on cask. This is what I mean, there are English beers using American hops that are not really out of style. There are others where the American hop character is more pronounced.The Point is that it tastes British.
I like cask pales served in England that contain hops from USA, NZ and Aus, but I also love traditional English bitters and golden ales etc. I like beers that mix English and imported hops.I guess I’m somewhat a traditionalist, though not to the levels of CAMRA, etc. I would never even think of putting American hops into British beer. And there are so many new hops out of Australia and such now that nobody can keep up. The hops are a big part of what makes Bitter and Pale what they are. Using American hops just turns it into American Pale Ale, which is something completely different. I guess it goes to show people always want what they can’t have.
I'll guess that this is a good place to ask this question. I have been itching to brew an English Ale. I have read a bunch of Ron Pattinson's Shut Up About blog and find "Enzymic Malt" to be a common ingredient. A google search turns up minimal and conflicting information about this malt. Some say it is acidulated malt used to lower mash pH and others say it is malt high in enzyme content. Both are presumably intended to improve mash efficiency. Is there any definitive answer to this or will this simply be a continuation of different opinions? It is used in such small quantities I wonder if it makes any significant difference. For what it is worth to the conversation, my local water is very soft, almost like RO water with virtually no alkalinity.
I'll guess that this is a good place to ask this question. I have been itching to brew an English Ale. I have read a bunch of Ron Pattinson's Shut Up About blog and find "Enzymic Malt" to be a common ingredient. A google search turns up minimal and conflicting information about this malt. Some say it is acidulated malt used to lower mash pH and others say it is malt high in enzyme content.
I agree. I also didn't want to say that American hops shouldn't be used at all in British beers. But it should be in a way that complements the beer, rather than overtaking the whole thing.I think it's a spectrum. It has American Chinook, Cascade and Willamette hops in it! And I think you can tell. But it's not overtly American, it's a very English kind of beer, especially on cask. This is what I mean, there are English beers using American hops that are not really out of style. There are others where the American hop character is more pronounced.
...Jaipur, jalipur.... What was it?
I really like cask. Some cask ales use American hops in a subtle way and that is good. Others use them less subtly and that is also good, and can be a revelation. English yeast and malts, fruity hops, cask conditioning. When it's done well it's lush.I agree. I also didn't want to say that American hops shouldn't be used at all in British beers. But it should be in a way that complements the beer, rather than overtaking the whole thing.
If the American hop character is too strong, the beer becomes an American pale in my head. It just lost it's Britishness, if such a thing exists. Camden pale ale is on the edge of this for example, but I really like it. All the Beavertown beers are not British to me anymore, but I like them. Brewdog... There are more, but I forgot the names. I'm trying to figure out this one brewery, the name sounds Indian or something like that... Jaipur, jalipur.... What was it?
I like cask ales, but all the ones that I had that used a lot of American hops were not tasting right to me. The malt was gone and overshadowed with fruity hops. No balance, just tasted like a sweeter American pale with almost no carbonation. Doesn't even sound appealing does it? Maybe I haven't got a good example yet.I really like cask. Some cask ales use American hops in a subtle way and that is good. Others use them less subtly and that is also good, and can be a revelation. English yeast and malts, fruity hops, cask conditioning. When it's done well it's lush.
Camden pale is not English in style. Modelled on SNPA, surely. Jaipur really isn't English In style. It's crossover, I'd say, with a big American influence.
Jaipur really isn't English In style. It's crossover, I'd say, with a big American influence.
I 2nd that. My sub 4% milds are souring a bit with time. Low hops, low alcohol. I think your 2% beer should be good for one or two months, depending on the hopping rate.The boil kills everything then the low pH inhibits any spores that could become problematic down the line. I think any pH below 4.5 means your beer should be good from a health standpoint. I am not aware of any ale yeast that would struggle to manage that, some lager yeasts might. Most british yeasts will produce beers between about 3.9 and 4.1 pH so they are too acidic for harmful bacteria. Alcohol also helps, but i think it has to be above about 3 percent .
It may still spoil though, but you would not get sick.
I also doubt it would keep as well as stronger beer, but it should be good for a few months. I try and drink any bitter in the 4% range in 3 months from brewing. I would try and do the same for that beer too.
I'll be interested to hear how that beer turns out, looks good
I'm aware of the fact that I'm about to be crucified for saying this, but are "American hops" really so fundamentally different? I recently made a "Timothy Taylor Landlord"-inspired English Pale Ale that used a generous amount of Celeia (or Styrian Golding) in the whirlpool: that stuff is quite citrusy. Maybe even juicy.
Sure, Celeia doesn't come close to hops like Citra, but it's not like those newer varieties came about when a hop plant had intercourse with a pineapple. Many "classical" hop varieties share these aromatics, to some extent, and their expression is often a matter of dosage. This is supported by some of the "Hop Chronicles" posts on brulosophy, where a Pale Ale hopped to oblivion with a classical variety will come out as, well, a Pale Ale, with citrus and tropical fruits.
So, yeah, I'll stick to the more classic varieties if I want to make an English Ale, but most of all I'll shoot for balance of the various components.
Where have I heard that before?quite a lot of hazy beers are also being produced by some of the newer micro breweries in UK, and they have a following. I feel those will likely be short lived
Probably any one of several future projections for the ‘craft‘ brewing market, where most organic growth appears to be pushing profits towards non- and low-alcoholic beverages. The relatively costly behaviour of suspending one’s senses by drinking hops rather than beer wasn’t ever going to catch on beyond a tiny niche of wannabe-different fanboys. The vast majority of beer drinkers (an aging population, apparently) are content with traditional beer. Personally, I’m very open-minded when it comes to food and drink. I’ll try anything. What I don’t like is how very expensive, hazy excessively-hopped beverages (I don’t consider them to be IPAs) remind me of a time during my childhood when I ate too many Refreshers sweets and subsequently vomited them back up.Where have I heard that before?
Anybody got any input on water for an ale I got coming, it is sorta inspired by Shepherd Neames Christmas Ale, but I am also thinking a little historical XXK or KK vibe to it.
MO as base
15% homemade invert #3 (50/50 mix of demerara/light muscovado invert)
6% Crisp amber
2% Crisp brown
90 min boil with Challenger at 60min for bittering, then 1g/L @15min of First Gold, followed by 1g/L each of First Gold and EKG for a 20min/80c hopstand.
OG 1.075 FG well, we'll see
IBU 50
Plan on bottling and cellar them for at least 4 months after they are carbed up.
I've been eyeing the Graham Wheeler water profiles and tried the bitter one for my last bitter, very pleased and feel confident in applying UK levels of salts to the mash now.
As both Shepheard Neames and historical KK type ales had/have both a little malt sweetness but a subtle bitter bite to them, I plan on going with the sweet pale ale profile, ie a good amount of NA and Cl but a little balanced towards So4.
Am I thinking right around this.
Is that a thing in english non-dark ales to use amber and brown malts?
I certainly have, this is more of a modern strong ale though, but with a bit of inspiration from the historical predecessor.Erik's been doing some reading in his Pattinson library. There's some really tasty looking recipes in the ~35yrs between 1880 and WWI. A Fullers XXK is in my queue, 1.080/90IBU! Pale ale malt, invert sugar, brown malt. Another of their XXK recipes of the same era swaps the brown for crystal.
So, yes, light roasted malts and relatively high IBUs are precedented.
@Erik the Anglophile, you've seen the recent Fullers water treatment thread started by Protos?
Do 11% Brown in my Porter with no problemsCrisp advise up to 5% for both Amber and Brown Malts. As those are quite similar, a 5% combined limit might be worth a consideration, although 4 month cellaring in a stronger beer should ease their impact.
Do you think the ibus are correct? I read somewhere that there might be bigdiscrepancies between nowadays quoted ibus based on old recipes and what they actually got back in the days. Mainly two factors are problematic, first one is the higher protein contents of the malt back in the days. The higher the protein amount in the wort, the lower the alpha acid utilization. You can really taste this when using chevallier for example. The same theoretical amount of hops for certain amount of ibus that works with more modern malts does not provide the same bittering when Chevallier is the base. The second possible factor is the lower alpha content that hops had back in the days. I think we mainly have the weight of the hops used, don't we? this means we have to guestimate the ibus these hops had and we might guestimate a bit to ambitious. They didn't have propper hop storage possibilities and the yield of alpha acid was likely lower as well.Erik's been doing some reading in his Pattinson library. There's some really tasty looking recipes in the ~35yrs between 1880 and WWI. A Fullers XXK is in my queue, 1.080/90IBU! Pale ale malt, invert sugar, brown malt. Another of their XXK recipes of the same era swaps the brown for crystal.
So, yes, light roasted malts and relatively high IBUs are precedented.
@Erik the Anglophile, you've seen the recent Fullers water treatment thread started by Protos?
Do you think the ibus are correct?
Mainly two factors are problematic, first one is the higher protein contents of the malt back in the days. The higher the protein amount in the wort, the lower the alpha acid utilization. You can really taste this when using chevallier for example. The same theoretical amount of hops for certain amount of ibus that works with more modern malts does not provide the same bittering when Chevallier is the base.
Aberdeen is in Scotland, not Northern England. Complicates things.Biermuncher's Aberdeen Brown
I didn't read any of the earlier posts, so I'm sure this was mentioned several times already.
It's a fantastic northern brown recipe. You can easily tweak it endlessly.
I've analyses of Fuggles and Goldings from the 1920s or 1930s. One sample of Goldings has over 7% alpha acid. Doesn't look to me like the alpha acid content of English hops has been increasing.No way to tell, is there? I do know Ron takes hop age and cold/warm storage into account when formulating his recipes. I believe I recall him stating AA% is fairly unchanged*, would have to find the reference.
The XXK would have been vatted for nearly a year, plenty of time for elevated bittering to cool off. I also hope to be into a sack of Chevalier for this beer.
*Comparing EKG to EKG, Fuggle to Fuggle. Not average 21st century to avg Victorian.
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