English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Fuggledog]

Hello,

Cire recently invited me to the forum and pointed me in the direction of this thread. I'm the bloke in NZ that McMullan (very kindly) sent Harvey's yeast to. I'm very happy to send some on to you DuncB if you'd like to try it too. Is there a way to send a PM on this forum? If so drop me a line and we can work something out (I'm based in Northland).

I recently did a comparison of wort fermented with the Harvey's strain roused vs. 'un-roused'. The results of this simple comparison were far from definitive but may still be of interest (see abridged notes below). My impression currently (based on little experience with the strain), is that rousing is important in encouraging a timely, healthy fermentation and reducing/limiting phenolic character. I don't know if phenols increase with yeast stress, but if so, I think rousing would reduce stress on this powdery strain and keep it ticking over.

Notes:

At least three features of the Harvey's culture have been theorized as causing problems in the home brewery: 1) the culture comprised of two Saccharomyces cerevisiae strains plus a latent strain of Debaryomyces hansenii, each of which might behave differently across home brewing environs/worts; 2) the culture originating from the Yorkshire square family of 'Saison-like' strains, requiring regular re-circulation/rousing; and 3) it's phenolic character.

Concerning point 1, the putative 'multi-strain' composition of the Harvey's culture has been contested (Personal Comm.). After plating the Harvey's culture on malt/agar and WLN media, I detected only one colony morphology. However my dilution of yeast cultures and plating techniques are both poor.

A photo of a typical colony of the Harvey's strain, grown on wort/gelatin media:

An article regarding the 'multi strain' character of Harvey's yeast described a single strain originally sourced from John Smiths, that after serial re-pitching contained two genetically identical 'strain's' plus Debaryomyces hansenii (See: https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2 ... 892_30493=). However the article also described the ratio of the two 'strains' changing with no or very little perceived impact on the fermentation or flavour profile of the resulting beer. I interpreted this as possibly indicative of the type of mutation found in single strain cultures when serially re-pitched, as described by McMullan (Personal Comm.). In contrast I was able to identify two strains of yeast in a sample from another regional UK brewery, each of which exhibited different morphology, brewing behaviour and flavour. In essence, the Harvey's yeast for most practical purposes could be treated as single-strain.

Regarding points 2 (Yorkshire yeast), and 3 (phenolic character), Northern Brewer has commented that:

"It's a proper Yorkshire yeast (from John Smiths) so won't reward you if you leave it undisturbed at the bottom of a fermenter like it's Whitbread B or something, it needs to be splashed about.

Also, with the usual caveats about sequencing, an old isolate was sequenced and like many of the Yorkshire yeasts was found to be a POF+ member of the saison family, as are WLP037 and WLP038. So if you think back to how people have had problems with the phenolics in WLP037, except for [McMullan] who put it through his mini-square system, it's perhaps not surprising that Harvey's hasn't worked brilliantly at homebrew level, it just needs more oxygen". (See: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7436&p=112946&hili ... 7s#p112946)

Inspired by McMullan's Yorkshire Square setup I prepared two fermenters: one with a re-circulation loop including spreader plate/makeshift 'fish tail' and timed pump, and the 2nd a standard s/s bucket in a temperature controlled fridge. The former fermenter included a s/s coil plumbed into a circuit with a pump, under-bar chiller and STC1000 controller. A heat pad was also attached to the STC1000 unit.

A single gyle of 'Harvey's-esque' bitter was brewed using a recipe adapted from a photograph of Harvey's Log book for their Best Bitter, brewed on the 4th November 2004.

GW's 'bitter' liquor profile was used alongside Gladfield malts and home made invert sugar. On propagating the yeast from a slant, I observed it was flocculant but produced a very powdery sediment. The powdery sediment combined with good flocculation resulted in a film of yeast settling on any surface immersed in the wort, if the sediment/wort was agitated then given a few minutes to settle. This behaviour would possibly suit a Yorkshire square or Burton union type arrangement where the wort was pumped or encouraged up onto a flat, draining surface such as an upper deck/trough. In this comparison I did not attempt to separate the yeast from the wort in this manner, and simply top cropped using my usual regime (after approx 48 hours, once every 24 hours for 3 total top crops). Under the microscope the cells were even and circular, but appeared to be smaller than I am used to seeing. I don't have a means of measuring the size of cells under the microscope, so my visual assessment is subjective. Abbreviated brew notes are below:

A small amount of Gladfield Dark Chocolate malt was added to tweak the colour in place of the coloured priming sugar or caramel possibly used at the brewery (Personal Communication, b).

Liqour: aiming for a variation on Graham Wheeler's Bitter profile

Ca: 170
S04 273
Cl 137.9
Predicted pH (Brew N Water): 5.1

Total Liqour: 77L

Mash: 16L:
CaSo4: 7.8g
CaCl2: 4.2g

Sparge: 0.7ml lactic acid

Boil:
CaSo4: 29.9g
CaCl2: 15.9g

Didn't quite have enough invert No.3 so made up the difference with No.1 (approx. 1/3rd invert No.1 or 200g).

Fermentation regime: Set up a remote timer to start re-circulation after 24 hours post pitch. Unfortunately the timer only works in 15min intervals, so the re-circulation continued for longer than reported on the net for commercial breweries (between 5 and 10 minutes). When lifting the lid during re-circulation there was a lot of perceived CO2 above the beer being released. Not sure how/if the presence of the lid will have affected the results of re-circulation (i.e. possibly trapping more co2 above the beer than if the fermenter was truly 'open'. Initially I thought the regime should run from 24 hours post pitch to 36 hours post pitch, so I stopped re-circulation over night (e.g. after 12 hours of the cycle). However, later I read that re-circulation continues over a period of 36 hours (rather than from the point of pitching the yeast), so I restarted the program for an additional 12 hours (total period of re-circulation = 36 hours ignoring the 8-9 hours 'interruption' when I turned off the timer/pump). FV#2 was left undisturbed.

Sunday 19th: Took a gravity reading and small taste sample from both FV. FV#1 - light esters, very faint, almost imperceptible phenols, quite 'light' and almost clean but with a yeasty bite/aftertaste. Gravity at 1.010. FV#2 is much sweeter, pleasant, no yeast taint but phenols are more pronounced (but actually pleasant). Gravity 1.020. Started dropping temp in FV#1 to 19.5c, then 18c, then straight to 10c over 24 hours.

23/09/2021: Casked FV#1 beer with 15g fuggle dry hop, 23g table sugar and 24ml of Super S. Beer quite cloudy with yeast going into the pin. Much cloudier than I would like but no yeast bite as before. Quite a sweet flavour with some light esters, very light phenols, but generally quite 'clean' tasting. FV#2 fermenter at 19c so crashed it to 10. A taste comparison of beer from FV#2 showed increased phenols compared to FV#1 to the point that FV#2 beer could pass as 'Belgian'. Not unpleasant though, just not what you might expect for a bitter. The rousing does indeed seem to reduce the perception of phenols in the beer and also increase fermentation speed.

30/09/21: Tapped the roused version. Good clarity although not 'polished'. Reasonable head that fades leaving some lacing down the glass. Light hoppy aroma, some ripe fruit esters, very subtle phenols. Flavour is ripe fruit, light malt and hops, very subtle phenolic (more of a background subtle spice note). Very easy drinking. Light bodied but not watery. Reminds me of Harvey's best bitter but could do with an additional week conditioning to 'round out' the flavours. Drinks as a bit thin/green at the moment and could do with a little bit more sweet/mouth feel which I think will come in a week. Pleased with the phenol expression though - seems appropriate given my memory of Harvey's. Certainly quite subtle but present. Tastes like British beer (not Belgian).

06/10/2021: Pulled a pint. Lovely, subtle orangy, marmelaide hoppy notes on the nose (probably from the Pacifica hops used in place of Golding). Good frothy white head that laces the glass. Good clarity and colour, if a little pale for Harveys (lack of invert No.3, caramel). Mouthfeel is light with gentle carbonation, Notes of pear, and melon, some bitter citrus peel, perhaps some phenolic spice, but the latter is a very subtle background note that blends with the ester profile to create a superior flavour rather than being perceived as a flaw. Dry finish that leaves a pleasing malt and hops aftertaste that encourages another sip. Very nice beer. The finish is perhaps a little dry and I would like to brew it again perhaps with a less vigorous rousing regime, but altogether very nice indeed.

14/10/2021: Currently drinking pin#2 after tapping it last week. Very pleasant bitter beer. Nice loose head with good retention and light lacing down the glass. Flavour is more full bodied than the roused version, good malt and hops profile, some light fruity esters and a balanced, light, phenolic note that isn't intrusive. To be honest the phenolic note doesn't seem any more present than the roused version. Of the two beers, this is definitely the better. However I think a 'light, rouse' of perhaps 5 mins max duration at 48 hours would be beneficial to make sure the yeast does it's job (given it is so powdery). Subsequent 5 minute rousing may also be beneficial, but I can't draw conclusions about the appropriateness of that regime based on current observations. So far, from the one brewing attempt with this strain, it seems a really nice yeast and not problematic at all. I wonder if this is down to the microbiological skills of McMullan who supplied a very healthy, robust yeast than propagates well. Another explanation might be cask conditioning: this beer tastes like a traditional cask conditioned ale. Perhaps in bottle or keg form the very light phenolic nature seems more intrusive?

19/10/2021: Excellent beer. Medium bodied which seems perfectly balanced - not too heavy but also with a pleasing quality. The esters and (very light) background phenolic note are in perfect balance with the malt and hop profile which shine through cleanly. A very pleasant and easy drinking pint.

The results of this comparison may have been shaped by my use of pure O2 at a rate of 1 L/P/M for 90 seconds. This may have reduced the perceived impact of rousing compared to wort simply aerated via transfer from a height into the FV. During the first rouse I perceived a high concentration of CO2 (nasal/aroma assessment) above the beer, but this had dropped off quite noticeably during the 2nd rouse. The results obtained here may also have been shaped by the skill of McMullan in propagating a very healthy culture.

In summary, my impressions of this culture after using it ONCE, are that it produces a very pleasant UK style bitter beer with good hops and malt profile, subtle esters and a very light, almost imperceptible phenolic character that blends well with the ester character. Just like the commercial Harvey's bitter I suspect the phenolic character varies with the age, handling, and other factors affecting the condition of the beer. Nevertheless neither beer (whether roused or left to ferment undisturbed) was overly phenolic in this single comparison. I would like to brew more with this yeast and get to know it better.

 

[McMullan]

Excellent work, @Fuggledog. I think acclimatising Harvey's to fermentation by serially repitching fresh helps push it in the right direction, too. Although potentially biased by pitching fresh yeast at a much higher pitching rate it kind of ties into the benefits of repitching fresh regardless. From memory, the metabolic pathway linked with phenolic character has been associated with environmental stress in wild yeast, so this might explain why acclimatising the yeast to fermentation helps push the character from 'off flavour' to desirable complexity. It's possible too that some people just won't like it regardless, given we're all hardwired differently and sense complex issues like beer quality in different ways. Some people might have a lower threshold for the phenolic character, for instance. Beer drinkers can be acclimatised, too. When I first tried Harvey's Best, shortly after starting Sussex uni at Falmer, just down the road from Lewes, my experience was something like, 'interesting, but not what I'm used to' then ordered a Guinness, as Ringwood hadn't made it that far into deepest East Sussex by then. Fours years later, a pint of Harvey's Best was standard procedure. Not my favourite yeast strain, but fun to work with occasionally.

 

[Miraculix]

@McMullan I have just bottled my simple bitter, which did not include any invert sugar/simple sugars, but only base malt and crystal malt. I fermented this one with verdant IPA to figure out wether or not the intense fruitiness of this yeast might be caused by the simple sugars, mainly glucose boosting ester productions.

Seems like I was on the right track. I can now fully understand how you came to the conclusion that this yeast is "a bit bland". The bitter I tasted today, although it being really green, was just... bland! No fruityness at all from the yeast, that was a surprise! So I think that simple sugars are essential to let this yeast shine. But overdoing it results in too much fruitiness. With 10% invert, I am already at the edge of my fruit bowl tolerance, so starting with 5% might be a wise idea.

If you are one day a bit tired of having to pamper your yorkshire babys, you might want to give this one a try, but with some invert, or at least some glucose.

Btw. all your writing about healthy amounts of healthy yeasts made me brew in parallel to botling today, so I managed to brew a simple dark mild and dumped it directly on the yeast cake of the bitter. I did this previously with all type of yeasts which yielded always excelent results, except of the rare occasion where I caried forward an Infection. This is definitely a good way of getting better results then just throwing in the odd pack of dry yeast. Let`s see where this one is going, it is low og with 1.033 and it has loads of yeasties to munch it to perfection. Often dry yeasts begin to shine with the second generation, so let`s see.

 

[McMullan]

@McMullan I have just bottled my simple bitter, which did not include any invert sugar/simple sugars, but only base malt and crystal malt. I fermented this one with verdant IPA to figure out wether or not the intense fruitiness of this yeast might be caused by the simple sugars, mainly glucose boosting ester productions.

Seems like I was on the right track. I can now fully understand how you came to the conclusion that this yeast is "a bit bland". The bitter I tasted today, although it being really green, was just... bland! No fruityness at all from the yeast, that was a surprise! So I think that simple sugars are essential to let this yeast shine. But overdoing it results in too much fruitiness. With 10% invert, I am already at the edge of my fruit bowl tolerance, so starting with 5% might be a wise idea.

If you are one day a bit tired of having to pamper your yorkshire babys, you might want to give this one a try, but with some invert, or at least some glucose.

Btw. all your writing about healthy amounts of healthy yeasts made me brew in parallel to botling today, so I managed to brew a simple dark mild and dumped it directly on the yeast cake of the bitter. I did this previously with all type of yeasts which yielded always excelent results, except of the rare occasion where I caried forward an Infection. This is definitely a good way of getting better results then just throwing in the odd pack of dry yeast. Let`s see where this one is going, it is low og with 1.033 and it has loads of yeasties to munch it to perfection. Often dry yeasts begin to shine with the second generation, so let`s see.

I think as long as FV wort is low in trub, using the whole yeast cake is fine. Trubby yeast slurry, with its protein content and general nutrition levels, invites bacteria to establish. One of the reasons I like the Yorkshire square system so much is it traps a bucket load of the most active, healthy, clean yeast for easy harvesting.

Any potential infection is more likely to become overwhelmed. This might be important where low OG worts don’t quite produce enough ethanol to sanitise the slurry for bacteria. When serially repitching, especially with FV slurry, it’s probably good practice to up the OG (1.050-1.060) routinely, to reset any bacteria burden.

 

[Derp]

I stopped by Central Market in San Antonio to peruse the beer selection, and after adding Tornado Shark (Lone Pint) and Schlenkerla to my cart, I saw a large bottle labeled "Pattinson Porter". For about three seconds I wondered if it could be related to our very own Ron Pattinson (duh), but then I saw that it was a Jester King beer. I attended Ron's talk at the brewery in 2019, and I'm very much looking forward to tasting the beer with my neighbor in a few days.

 

[shoreman]

Put another English-influenced beer in the Cubitainer over the weekend.

A bitter with about the same hop bill as Timothy Taylor’s Landlord. First time using Verdant IPA yeast and was happy with the attenuation- down to 1.008 (I like my beers dry) and the flavor profile was decent on the hydro sample.

about 3.1%abv this one should be refreshing

 

[cire]

First time of brewing, so can't yet say it's my favorite, but being popular here thought I should brew J W Lees Best Mild of 1952.

Decided to not add caramel, but use #2 in place of #1, and unintentionally added a little extra brown malt, so maybe the colour could be close. The brewlength was 50 litres and time was scarce, so it was a bit of a make do and mend by the end of the day. The grist was mashed and sparged down to 1005, producing 33 litres at 1045 from the boiler . The invert sugar was boiled separately, then diluted before being added to the FV to make the final volume. The yeast (B14 from Brewlab) was pitched when it and the wort was ~18C shortly before the invert addition.

The FV has 100 litre capacity and the picture taken 6 hours after pitching, temperature 18C.

This was it 90 minutes later. and three hours later the yeast head was folded into the wort.


Next morning, 12 hours after the last picture the yeast cap had changed colour. The top was gently skimmed and the rest knocked back.

11 hours later before and after the fifth rousing.




Temperature is currently 20C.

I can't smell any hops at present and the dominant smell is brown malt and needs to improve.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@cire How do you rouse the yeast, and what's your rousing schedule? Not something I have ever done but maybe should start.

 

[cire]

@cire How do you rouse the yeast, and what's your rousing schedule? Not something I have ever done but maybe should start.

Basically, it is done when I can and when necessary if I get there before it climbs out of the FV. I will do it maybe 10 times during a typical ferment.

It should be automated on a basis something like 5 minutes every five hours. This type of yeast climb on top of the wort and flocculate leaving fewer cells working and substantially slowing fermentation making rousing essential for progress. After the yeast is returned, more yeast is created so the krausen grows larger to require more rousing and so on, so it will in some ways be bespoke for the yeast in use, the amount and the vessel.

By rousing, fermentation will be finished on a typical 1040/1050 wort in 2 to 3 days, while unroused might take 14 days to reach the same stage. When gravity is approached, the yeast is cropped for the next brew and the beer slowly cooled. Gravity falls more slowly and the beer clears and is casked a point or two above anticipated final gravity leave sufficient for natural carbonation.

Beer held at cellar temperature continues to ferment for weeks and eventual final gravity can be as low 1000, although well before that point is reached the keystone in casks will blow out. This has happened to me several times in casks that have been store too warm or for long periods, but Yorkshire yeasts usually drop bright in a few days and the cask vented and ready to serve within a week or two.

 

[cire]

Should have said I rouse with a large spoon sterilised over a gas flame. This was what greeted me this morning, 11 hours since it was previously roused.

The yeast peaked and slipped back. The yeast was very thick and clumpy and quickly fell back into the green beer. A quick reading by refractometer was too high to even merit an effort to calculate the necessary correction and has me a little perplexed at this stage. I'm hoping I've underpitched and the yeast will soon be back in full action. The temperature in the garage has dropped and heat from fermentation isn't sufficient to maintain my preferred temperature and have set the thermostat higher. I'm hoping the lower calcium present in the mash has not caused the enzymes to denature prematurely.

 

[cire]

UPDATE.

An hour later there was a thick coating of yeast and another reading by refractometer showed the first to be suspect to say the least. Obviously another should have been taken at the time and I might then have considered cropping the yeast. Now it will be left peak, then crop the yeast later today leaving a thin covering to protect the beer. That will be 3 days from pitching and a gravity reading will determine when the beer will be left to cool and clarify, to be likely racked on Monday.

 

[DuncB]

@cire
Thanks for the info about the ongoing ferment even at cellar temps with the ale yeast. I couldn't understand how my Wyeast 1099 was reaching 1002 after a few weeks in the barrel. Though not tasting bone dry. Very reassuring.

 

[cire]

@cire
Thanks for the info about the ongoing ferment even at cellar temps with the ale yeast. I couldn't understand how my Wyeast 1099 was reaching 1002 after a few weeks in the barrel. Though not tasting bone dry. Very reassuring.

Quite, it is usual to talk in terms of racking gravity for cask conditioned ales than than final gravity, which is more suited to beers that are filtered, pasteurised or chilled to the point where yeast drops out. Further, for as long as the yeast is active, CO2 is produced to carbonate the beer, although it will be limited by both temperature and pressure as well as limited yeast activity.

Well, the second refractometer reading was 5.7 Bx, corrected implied a hydrometer reading around 1016, which was confirmed with a suitable sample. This was higher than I'd hoped for at 48 hours from pitching, but lots of yeast was again on top of the wort and it was decided to crop half of that yeast and gently spoon back all of the rest that would go under the surface. Below is the result.

Didn't put something in the picture to get the scale, so after cooling in the fridge a while, took another which shows the yeast compacting.

Meanwhile a full yeast cap reformed and was knocked back yet again and next time another reading will be taken with the refractometer with a target reading of 5 Bx. Then no further rousing, heating and insulation will be removed to allow cooling to cellar temperature. The current temperature in the garage is 11C, 52F.

 

[DuncB]

Great cellar temp, I recognise that brand, pickle jar I think. A bit of history in that tape measure as well.
I thought the coaster was a pretty good scale and was fairly sure it wasn't a square place mat.
Your comment about CO2 production also noted as kegs that I have racked into the cellar need spunding otherwise I come back and find it's at 20 psi after a couple of weeks and I then have to degas it carefully.

 

[Fuggledog]

Very interesting write up Cire. Can you tell us anything about the background of B14 from Brewlab or how you came to ask for it?

 

[cire]

Yes, it is, just pulled a pint through from a pin in the garage. A green hop beer with home grown hops. Unfortunately not all the hops were mine as they couldn't be relied upon as I live too far north to get a decent crop, even though the weather was kind to us this summer and autumn. Even so, they have added some freshness and a little bit of mint to the beer.

The pin was vented 14 days ago and the first pint pulled next evening. A flexible beer extractor is in current use, and with everything tight and closed, no oxygen can enter and while the yeast is active, CO2 produced both carbonates the beer and pressurizes the cask. The cask is vented by slackening the yellow valve seen In the picture., allowing air into the cask as beer is pulled. A check valve in the line to the beer engine stops cask pressure pushing beer through the pump. A good handful of hops were added to the cask before it was sealed and a hop filter is fitted inside the extractor.

B14 was that used by Vaux. I'm sure you know of them. They didn't have squares, but 2 massive shallow SS FVs as well as a row of very tall conicals in later times. Then they brewed each weekday except Thursday which was double brewday. I have no evidence they roused their ale yeast, but it does little work for me if it isn't. In earlier times some of their beers were brewed by Lorimer and Clark at the Caledonian Brewery in Edinburgh who likely had their own yeast.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@cire You've opened up a whole new rabbit hole to go down. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cire]

@cire You've opened up a whole new rabbit hole to go down. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for that, and my thanks to all who have taken time to read these postings. Put in context, I've simply posted progress reports of my most recent brew. There is no claim intended or implied that this is how it must be done, but in hope to encourage open fermentation and potentially expose some myths for what they are. This is not an attempt to discourage LoDo for those who wish to practice that, but that traditional Yorkshire Square and similar beers were not made in that fashion.

Yesterday, after a refractometer reading of 5.2 Bx, the highly flocculated yeast cap was gently returned to the wort for a final time and when a solid covering reformed, the heating and insulation were removed. Today garage ambient is 14C so beer temperature is dropping slowly, but temperatures are forecast to drop overnight and it might be the end of tomorrow be at or slightly below cellar temperature.

This shows the cropped yeast settling with probably 70 to 80% of the yeast still in the FV.

 

[rmr9]

Quite, it is usual to talk in terms of racking gravity for cask conditioned ales than than final gravity, which is more suited to beers that are filtered, pasteurised or chilled to the point where yeast drops out. Further, for as long as the yeast is active, CO2 is produced to carbonate the beer, although it will be limited by both temperature and pressure as well as limited yeast activity.

Well, the second refractometer reading was 5.7 Bx, corrected implied a hydrometer reading around 1016, which was confirmed with a suitable sample. This was higher than I'd hoped for at 48 hours from pitching, but lots of yeast was again on top of the wort and it was decided to crop half of that yeast and gently spoon back all of the rest that would go under the surface. Below is the result.

View attachment 749270

Didn't put something in the picture to get the scale, so after cooling in the fridge a while, took another which shows the yeast compacting.

View attachment 749271

Meanwhile a full yeast cap reformed and was knocked back yet again and next time another reading will be taken with the refractometer with a target reading of 5 Bx. Then no further rousing, heating and insulation will be removed to allow cooling to cellar temperature. The current

Awesome posts, I’ve really enjoyed them! I’m curious now about rousing the yeast and modulating attenuation. Is the level of attenuation more a function of speed ie you’ve knocked more yeast back so they’ll chew up the wort to the final gravity faster making it seem more highly attenuated vs. low amounts of yeast in suspension munching away much more slowly at an almost unobservable rate?

Taking a crack at an English brown ale using wyeast West Yorkshire for the first time in many years and I’m pretty sure I won’t be allowed to brew anymore if my cask blows a keystone!

edited because I had a copy paste issue...

 

[rmr9]

Awesome posts, I’ve really enjoyed them! I’m curious now about rousing the yeast and modulating attenuation. Is the level of attenuation more a function of speed ie you’ve knocked more yeast back so they’ll chew up the wort to the final gravity faster making it seem more highly attenuated vs. low amounts of yeast in suspension munching away much more slowly at an almost unobservable rate?

Taking a crack at an English brown ale using wyeast West Yorkshire for the first time in many years and I’m pretty sure I won’t be allowed to brew anymore if my cask blows a keystone!

edited because I had a copy paste issue...sorry for muddling the thread with technical issues!

 

[cire]

Thank you, I'm just pleased to know there's interest or curiosity.

OK, I'm reasonably satisfied that each commercial brewery using Yorkshire type yeasts has their own procedure, but suspect they are similar in most respects and if any is fully automated, it will be set up the safer side of optimum with manual intervention available at the touch of a button.
So in other words it is quite reasonable to simply pitch a Yorkshire yeast and wait for 2 weeks before taking readings to see if the assumed FG is reached and gravity readings indicate virtually no further attenuation. But why would you if a more aggressive yeast would finish the same task in less time? The Yorkshire yeast will flocculate during possibly any stage of fermentation to leave little working yeast in the wort, meaning the brewer and not the yeast can be in control. You have to work as well, but you control the pace.

If you bottle condition with a Yorkshire yeast, you shouldn't just leave the bottle standing in a warm room and expect it to be fully carbonated in 2 weeks without every day or so upturning each bottle and giving it a good shake. On the good side, the beer in cask or bottle clears very quickly and if left undisturbed will keep being very gently carbonated for a significant period of time.

So I rouse the yeast at the first chance there is to have enough yeast to make the effort warranted. From then on I do it when I can and make sure there is plenty of head space and no lid if left for any period of time. At about the halfway point the yeast cap begins to subside in height but not in the quantity of yeast and if you were to continue rousing the fermentation would slow to near nil and the head would collapse into the wort. Therefore at this point it is necessary to monitor progress by measuring gravity in some way. In other words, you learn how to read the yeast. You've just got to try it.

Stand your untapped casks on their end with the keystone uppermost. Just make sure there is nothing above it that the keystone might break. Then you can wait in comfort and listen for the bang, then knock it back.


Forgot to make the point that as this yeast clears quickly, it needs much less intervention to have clear beer in a shorter period.

 

[shoreman]

Latest beer served from a Cubitainer- the temps are dropping here in New England, so my basement is primed for fermenting and serving these.

This is a 3.1% Bitter with Fuggles, EKG, Styrian Goldings (ala Timothy Taylor’s Landlord) - pale malt, dark crystal, touch of black.

First time using Verdant IPA dry yeast and I love it, great attenuation on this one (fg 1.008) and dropped clear as S04 only being a week in the Cubitainer priming. Nice flavor.

Cheers

 

[cire]

That's a perfect color match to bottled Landlord. Suggest next time you drop using black and if possible, use a Yorkshire yeast.

 

[shoreman]

Yeah I wasn’t exactly looking to brew Landlord, but I love that hop combo. Landlords a bit higher on the ABV.

I like to look to commercial Brewers hop and malt profiles and try to mash together a recipe. Lately I’ve been looking at St Austell's beers for my next one.

I’m too lazy these days to use liquid yeast, so it’s nice to find a decent dry outside of notty & so4.

 

[DuncB]

I think the TT is a little weaker now than it used to be, so in a few years time your recipe will be right on the money!
Any links to a good TT clone? Friend wants to brew it and I thought I'd have a go at the same time to see who could get closest.

 

[shoreman]

I haven’t had Landlord since the Shelton Brothers closed shop in the States a couple years ago.

I didn’t brew this recipe, but used the hop sequence.TT does use just Golden Promise but probably has more caramelization of the wort at their scale and probably a longer boil- that’s why I think a lot of people add crystal to their TT recipe.

https://byo.com/recipe/timothy-taylor-brewery-landlord-clone/

 

[schmurf]

I think the TT is a little weaker now than it used to be, so in a few years time your recipe will be right on the money!
Any links to a good TT clone? Friend wants to brew it and I thought I'd have a go at the same time to see who could get closest.

I did this one a while ago. It was tasty but it was too long ago I had the real thing I couldn't compare how accurate it was.

 

[DuncB]

Thanks I've got the ingredients except the yeast but can get that. I'll watch the brewery tour again, they certainly rouse the ferment from memory.

 

[DuncB]

@schmurf
Brewed another five points yesterday, used the hop missile for the flameout addition and as a wort filter. We'll see how it goes, fermenting away at 19.5 at the moment. Will update in a week or two.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I did this one a while ago. It was tasty but it was too long ago I had the real thing I couldn't compare how accurate it was.

@schmurf This looks awesome. The ingredient list I have and like, so doesn't matter if it's not accurate as long as it's tasty