English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Miraculix]

I took a multi year break from brewing, and got back into the obsession because I wanted low octane beers. This led me to WL002 as it is probably the lowest attenuating yeast out there, and I did 20+ brews with WL002.

I decided to try Pub, and in my two split batch blind triangle testing, my palette preferred the Pub strain.

Miraclulix: Can you share your recipe that avoids the cloying sweetness of 002? I've been playing around with a number of yeasties over the past year, and my palate has morphed so I find the 002 overly sweet. Pub seems to be less sweet. I picked up WL085 blend vault strain (I think it is a mix of 002 and 007 but I'm not sure) when I did a drive by of White Labs a year plus ago. WL085 has been in heavy rotation ever since; with 002 relegated to the sidelines and very intermittent use of Pub.

Just to follow up on this one, here is the precise recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/miraculix-best-classic-english-ale.661073/

Let me know what you think about it!

 

[kmarkstevens]

Thanks for that! Looks tasty and I will have to try it, especially as I also have First Gold in the freezer.

 

[thehaze]

I can also confirm that Imperial A09 Pub does exhibit marmalade esters. I've liked it in a less than traditional bitter made with MO + 6% mix of Light and Dark Crystal and with a combination of 65% US Chinook and 35% Mosaic, no dry hopping. The beer came out orangey, marmaladey, jammy, soft mouthfeel, smooth bitterness. It striked like one of the strains that can easily allow you to brew a 5-6% bitter with 60-100 IBUs.

 

[lowtones84]

Our bitter/perhaps old ale from a few posts ago has turned out quite well. A bit more aggressively bitter than expected, but very tasty. The homemade invert really does something.

I think the higher bitterness is partially because it was the first time I had ever done a 10 gallon batch and the boil took longer than expected. It was also a bigger whirlpool addition than I've used in a bit. I actually like a Target+EKG combination late, but it can be easy to overplay the hand. Target adds something to that EKG or Fuggles classic combo that is very nice, I'll just have to watch the bitterness a bit. Looking to play with Jester soon.

 

[bwible]

Ever tried First Gold? Its one of my favorite hops for any English ale. Very authentic English flavor and its good for all stages.

 

[bwible]

I’ve been hoping to get a WLP026 out of White Lab’s vault. Supposed to be Marston’s. I placed an order probably 2 years ago. Still only 131 orders until they ship!

 

[lowtones84]

Ever tried First Gold? Its one of my favorite hops for any English ale. Very authentic English flavor and its good for all stages.

I have 2 oz. around that I will probably try in a more traditional bitter soon. We were actually considering dry hopping one 5 gallon carboy with First Gold and the other with EKG, but we ended up just dry hopping one with EKG just to see the difference between dry hopped and not on the exact same beer.

 

[bwible]

I have 2 oz. around that I will probably try in a more traditional bitter soon. We were actually considering dry hopping one 5 gallon carboy with First Gold and the other with EKG, but we ended up just dry hopping one with EKG just to see the difference between dry hopped and not on the exact same beer.

I have dry hopped with First Gold. Actually hopped in the keg. I used 1/2 oz for a 3 gallon keg. Use a teaball or they make screened cannisters now that you can put in your keg use them for hops, oak chips, fruit peel or whatever you want to add to the keg. Buy them on ebay. First Gold is just a great hop.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah, WLP026 is an interesting yeast, as a POF- saison type. Not going to come out as a seasonal either, at least not this year. You could tell Brewlab you were looking to clone Pedigree, they could come up with something....

 

[bwible]

Yeah, WLP026 is an interesting yeast, as a POF- saison type. Not going to come out as a seasonal either, at least not this year. You could tell Brewlab you were looking to clone Pedigree, they could come up with something....

Well thanks for that info. I don’t enjoy Phenols and clovey and Belgian-y things. (I spend good money on cleaner and sanitizer for a reason. ) Outside of a classic Hefeweizen, and I like those with more banana than clove. I never had Pedigree but I knew it was a classic bitter. So maybe I’m not after wlp026.

 

[ba-brewer]

Well thanks for that info. I don’t enjoy Phenols and clovey and Belgian-y things. (I spend good money on cleaner and sanitizer for a reason. ) Outside of a classic Hefeweizen, and I like those with more banana than clove. I never had Pedigree but I knew it was a classic bitter. So maybe I’m not after wlp026.

I think he said wlp026 was POF- so negative for phenolic off flavors.

 

[z-bob]

K1-V1116 wine yeast might be worth a try in English bitter, for those of you looking for a new yeast. I've never had a proper English beer (closest thing is Foster's ESB unless one of my homebrews was close and I didn't know it) but I have used V1116 in beer several times and I like it. It's kinda estery, but no banana esters and no phenols. It's also one of the few wine yeasts that can digest complex sugars like maltotriose. I've talked to Northern Brewer about it before, but I don't think I or anyone else has mentioned it in this thread.

 

[bwible]

I think he said wlp026 was POF- so negative for phenolic off flavors.

Ah. Hey I only read this pof term for the first time myself today. I had to read where it was explained in another thread. Guess I missed the -. New term to me.

 

[bwible]

Not to hijack the topic, but what about mild? I brewed my first batch of beer ever on Memorial Day 1997 and pretty much since my early days of brewing I’ve had an affection for mild. I was session before session was cool in the U.S.

I’ve never tasted a real example from the UK, something I hope to rectify someday. I understand its not a popular style, largely thought of as ‘cloth cap’ or an old man’s beer. And of course, the young folks all turn to lager.

I’ve worked a few different recipes over the years and have won ribbons for mild a few times in local competitions. I think my most successful and best tasting milds were made with Thames Valley WY1275.

What’s the state of mild these days? With the current trend toward session beers, shouldn’t this be positioned to make a comeback, or is bitter already enough of a session beer that it doesn’t matter?

 

[Hanglow]

Pedigree is now bottle conditioned, but I assume that it's just a bottling strain... ?


regarding mild, it's still mainly a midlands thing, so around Birmingham it can still be had in a fair number of traditional pubs. A few other breweries make it too. But I can't see it making a comeback at all, changing tastes, lifestyles and demographics make it all but impossible. Best bet would be craft breweries making historic recreations of mild when it was strong

most session cask beers are now hoppy pale ales, relatively well hopped with new world hops . ie golden ales. I can't see that changing any time soon

 

[bwible]

Here’s the last mild I did. This is for 3 gallons:

2.5 pounds Maris Otter Malt
1 pound Fawcett Brown Malt
5 oz Chocolate Malt
5 oz Crystal Malt 40L
5 oz Flaked Barley
1 oz Black Patent

60 min boil
Northern Brewer 6.6% .5 oz 45 min
Fuggle 3.6% .5 oz 15 min

I used WY1028 for this one

1.037
1.010
3.5 % abv
23 ibu
24 srm

 

[bwible]

Followed the mild with an EPA using the same yeast cake. Again this is for 3 gallons:

6 lbs Maris Otter Malt
.5 lb Crystal Malt 40L
.5 lb Victory Malt
.5 lb Flaked Wheat

60 min boil
Target 5.5% 1 oz 60 min
Fuggle 3.6% .5 oz 20 min
EKG 4.7% .5 oz 20 min
EKG 4.7% .5 oz 1 min
First Gold dry hop in keg .5 oz

1.057
1.014
5.5% abv
42 ibu
12 srm

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well that's the point - POF- means that it doesn't produce phenols and clovey Belgian things, but it does have the kind of attenuation you see in saisons (which was important in Burton as they wanted to ensure all the fermentables were fermented in the brewery and not once a barrel was exported to the tropics. But a low level of phenols is more common than most people realise in British yeasts.

 

[bwible]

Well that's the point - POF- means that it doesn't produce phenols and clovey Belgian things, but it does have the kind of attenuation you see in saisons (which was important in Burton as they wanted to ensure all the fermentables were fermented in the brewery and not once a barrel was exported to the tropics. But a low level of phenols is more common than most people realise in British yeasts.

The POF thing is a new term to me. I had to look it up. I just saw that it meant Phenolic Off Flavor. I missed the + or - thing. I is more edjicated now, Thanks.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

What’s the state of mild these days? With the current trend toward session beers, shouldn’t this be positioned to make a comeback, or is bitter already enough of a session beer that it doesn’t matter?

Session beers never went away in the UK, if anything the average beer has got a little stronger as people drink more US-influenced stuff but a tax system based on ABV will always favour the weaker stuff.

As Hanglow says, you'll still find it in the Midlands, and rarely outside, but quite often on keg rather than cask. Tim Taylors are one exception, in the handful of tied pubs that carry more than just Landlord/Boltmaker you'll find their dark mild and Ram Tam. There are some signs of -not a revival as such, but a slowing of the decline, the modern beer revolution has encouraged people to explore more different styles and mild benefits a little from that. So there are more breweries brewing it, but it tends to show up more at festivals - I have a friend from overseas who I meet at the GBBF and she drinks pretty much exclusively mild there.

Part of it is the name, partly because of the cloth cap and grandfather's associations, but also the historical reputation (which was deserved) for being where the slops ended up. I've known publicans put the same beer on with different clips, and taking the word "mild" off the clip led to 3x the sales. So you see quite a lot of 4%-ish "darks" these days which are the spritual successors to trad dark mild.

Doesn't help that there's no West Midlands yeasts in wide circulation, I'm sure Brewlab could fix you up with some though.

My next brew, as an when I finally get round to it, should be partigyling a mild off a big dark thing that was meant to be a Christmas 2018 brew....

 

[bwible]

Session beers never went away in the UK, if anything the average beer has got a little stronger as people drink more US-influenced stuff but a tax system based on ABV will always favour the weaker stuff....

Thank you for that insight. If I can pick your brain a little further - I’ve just found out that a large distributor here possibly has (4) milds imported from the UK:

Black Sheep Mild (500ml bottles)
Black Sheep Monty Python (500ml bottles)
Cain’s Dark Mild (14.9 oz can)
Newcastle Cabbie (12 oz bottles)

Which of these would you recommend, assuming all 4 are available?

Thanks again

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Don't think any of the Monty Python beers are dark, they're all golden ale type things, at least here.

Cains have a "difficult" history but they've not brewed for several years now, I think there was a bit of contract brewing going on but not sure what the deal is. Might be interesting as a representative of northwest milds, but a can probably won't flatter it.

I'm trying to think if I've had the BS mild, I've certainly not had Cabbie.

So can't help much - but it's worth noting that none of these are from the West Midlands which is the true heartland.

 

[bierhaus15]

While I appreciate the US approach to brewing milds (5 types of specialty malts and the kitchen sink) there is something to be said for brewing a nice malty bitter and darkening it up with brewers caramel, per Tim Taylors.

Not sure if it done in the UK anymore, but half and half (bitter and mild) can also be an enjoyable pint.

 

[2_gal_brewer]

While not something most of you would make, I found Cooper's Dark Ale pretty close to UK mild. Made from their Hopped Extract. (Shudders lol)

 

[Miraculix]

I only had one dark mild, it was called ruby red dark mild, or something similar. Forgot the brewery, it was really nice.

 

[Jako]

I only had one dark mild, it was called ruby red dark mild, or something similar. Forgot the brewery, it was really nice.

the only dark mild i had was the one i made. i won a gold medal for it so i guess it was pretty good. i also made a darker version that turned out meh. i used imperal Pub yeast and i love it i think it made the beer.

 

[Miraculix]

the only dark mild i had was the one i made. i won a gold medal for it so i guess it was pretty good. i also made a darker version that turned out meh. i used imperal Pub yeast and i love it i think it made the beer.

Funny. I was literally thinking today about brewing a mild with this very yeast as I have it on hand and like it very much. I think it would work really well. I have other stuff to brew first, but it is on my list. Would you like to share your grain bill?

 

[Jako]

Funny. I was literally thinking today about brewing a mild with this very yeast as I have it on hand and like it very much. I think it would work really well. I have other stuff to brew first, but it is on my list. Would you like to share your grain bill?

yeah, i modified a recipe i found on the forums i cant remember who posted it first or find it for the life of me. so forgive me. looking at my notes the pale chocolate malt looks very low i cant remember if that's correct. in the score sheet it was noted it could use more aroma.


keep the mash temp low, when i made this i wanted a crisp easy drinking beer i could drink all night. i will update once i find out if the specialty malts are right.

8LB Maris Otter
.5LB Victory Malt
4oz Pale chocolate Malt
8oz crystal 60

1oz 5.3AA EGK 25min
1oz 4.9AA Fuggles 25min

Imperial Pub yeast. no starter on the warmer side its limit. score sheets noted "dark Brown sugar and "fruit" in the aroma.

 

[Miraculix]

yeah, i modified a recipe i found on the forums i cant remember who posted it first or find it for the life of me. so forgive me. looking at my notes the pale chocolate malt looks very low i cant remember if that's correct. in the score sheet it was noted it could use more aroma.


keep the mash temp low, when i made this i wanted a crisp easy drinking beer i could drink all night. i will update once i find out if the specialty malts are right.

8LB Maris Otter
.5LB Victory Malt
4oz Pale chocolate Malt
8oz crystal 60

1oz 5.3AA EGK 25min
1oz 4.9AA Fuggles 25min

Imperial Pub yeast. no starter on the warmer side its limit. score sheets noted "dark Brown sugar and "fruit" in the aroma.

Sounds good. I never brewed with victory and I do not like chocolate malt that much. But I like chocolate spelt. That should do the job as well. What adds the victory to the taste? I really do not know this malt at all.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I only had one dark mild, it was called ruby red dark mild, or something similar. Forgot the brewery, it was really nice.

Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild is the most common mild with ruby in the name, but as a throwback to the 6% Victorian milds it's nothing like the mid-20th-century versions. As I say, festivals are probably your best bet outside the Black Country, Olympia always has quite a few.

While I appreciate the US approach to brewing milds (5 types of specialty malts and the kitchen sink) there is something to be said for brewing a nice malty bitter and darkening it up with brewers caramel, per Tim Taylors.

Or indeed a pale mild. But the kitchen sink approach was also followed in Britain - look at Lees Best Mild between 1950-63. Started out as 82% pale, 12% sugar and a few bits of crystal & black, soon became 65% pale, 20% sugar and mix of black/brown/chocolate/crystal/oats, then from 1957 it was 55% pale, 26% sugar, 7% brown, 5% maize, 3% lactose, 2% flaked oats, 2% enzymic, with random excursions into mild malt.

So the kitchen sink approach does have some evidence in the UK, even if it was for Best Mild rather than ordinary. That post-1957 recipe looks pretty ordinary though!

Not sure if it done in the UK anymore, but half and half (bitter and mild) can also be an enjoyable pint.

It needs draught mild to be available, so it's pretty much died out. Maybe in the Midlands. From what I can work out it has its origins in people mixing draught with bottled brown ale, as people were so worried about draught mild being full of slops.