English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Derp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
296
Reaction score
70
Location
San Antonio
Machine House microbrew in Seattle has an ambrosial Mild, that I'm trying to at least get close to.
I've thought about doing the same. I had tickets to fly out for March Mildness (and to visit family) but had to cancel due to the lockdown.

That mild is the dog's bollocks.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
That mild is the dog's bollocks.
I know, right? Hell, a dog would probably prefer to lap this up to licking their own bollocks. That said, BCJP may knock it down for being out of style but it freaking rocks.
ABV: 3.7%
SRM: 28
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.008
IBU: 20
Mash: 2-row, Crystal, Dark Crystal, Chocolate
Hops: Nugget, Progress, Goldings

I talked to the brewer back in January and he revealed:
Yeast: Fullers
US 2 row
Bairds for the specialty malts:
Crystal 50/60L
Crystal 135/165L
Chocolate

Kicking myself I didn't ask for the mash temp or the percentages. But eventually I should be able to triangulate in on it.

I need to call them tomorrow and see if they are open. The website wasn't clear and I think WA State doesn't start to reopen until June. That said, they do have To Go operating. So, I should do my duty and at least make a token effort to help out by getting a growler or three.
 

Derp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
296
Reaction score
70
Location
San Antonio
I know, right? Hell, a dog would probably prefer to lap this up to licking their own bollocks. That said, BCJP may knock it down for being out of style but it freaking rocks.
ABV: 3.7%
SRM: 28
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.008
IBU: 20
Mash: 2-row, Crystal, Dark Crystal, Chocolate
Hops: Nugget, Progress, Goldings

I talked to the brewer back in January and he revealed:
Yeast: Fullers
US 2 row
Bairds for the specialty malts:
Crystal 50/60L
Crystal 135/165L
Chocolate

Kicking myself I didn't ask for the mash temp or the percentages. But eventually I should be able to triangulate in on it.

I need to call them tomorrow and see if they are open. The website wasn't clear and I think WA State doesn't start to reopen until June. That said, they do have To Go operating. So, I should do my duty and at least make a token effort to help out by getting a growler or three.
Thanks for the recipe hints; I shall see what I can come up with.

My son has been getting 5L (I think) cask/boxes from the brewery. Sort of like wine in a box, but with delicious mild.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
Ok, my latest try at Machine House Mild is not embarrassing.
2.5 gallons
3# Golden Promise (Machine House just uses US 2-row)
6oz Bairds Crystal 135-165
4oz Bairds Crystal 50-60
2oz Bairds Chocolate
WLP85 (Machine House uses Fullers from Wyeast. WLP85 is fullers WLP002 + (WLP006 or 007) blend. Attenuates a a bit more and therefore a little drier than WLP002)
mild.jpg
 

Derp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
296
Reaction score
70
Location
San Antonio
Ok, my latest try at Machine House Mild is not embarrassing.
How close is it? What would you change?

I haven't brewed in months due to a stupid low-carb diet, but I'm feeling the itch and I'd love to brew a mild that was even close to Machine House's.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
for ~2.5 gallons, I've done 4 versions, with V4 getting pretty tasty. Will take it by my LHBS tomorrow as they also love the Machine House Mild. The guys are pretty good at identifying tweaks.

v1
3# Golden Promise
.5# Bairds C50-60
.25# Bairds C135-165
.25# Bairds Chocolate
EKG ~25 IBU

v2
3# Golden Promise
.5# Bairds C50-60
.5# Bairds C135-165
.25# Bairds Chocolate
EKG ~25 IBU

v3
3# Golden Promise
.25# Bairds C50-60
.5# Bairds C135-165
2 oz Bairds Chocolate
EKG ~25 IBU

v4
3# Golden Promise
6oz Bairds C50-60
4oz Bairds C135-165
2 oz Bairds Chocolate
EKG ~25 IBU
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
I've got another Machine House Mild waiting to tap tomorrow and hopefully getting closer to the mark.

In the meantime, cross posting from what I did for beer today.

I have too many English yeasts, and therefore winnowing out the herd. Like to get down to just 4 or 5 (my English flock includes Fullers, WLP85, West Yorkshire, London ESB, S-04, Adnans, Whitbread wlp017, Burton, WLP026 Premium.) For example, I will use Nottingham going forward to substitute for Irish ale yeast because they are pretty to my palate and the fermentation numbers. Probably use the WLP026 Premium for when I do the rare big beer/barley wine. Pitched a West Yorkshire vs Adnan's split batch yeast off 2 days ago.

I've already culled these: London III (dull, lifeless, and certainly not Boddington's), Windsor (too fruity), Yorkshire Squares (beyond my brewing ability and comes off most of the time like a Saison)
 

shetc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
2,231
Reaction score
2,032

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
2,439
Location
UK
For all those bitching about Verdant yeast being a bit lively during fermentation - that's why they call ale yeasts top-fermenting, none of these poor mutts that have been forced to adapt to conicals like they're...gasp, lager yeast. This is British yeast as it should be - a Yorkshire Square full of Taddy Porter at Sam Smith's.
#newwallpaper

1618352910556.png
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
That is a beauty! If you scroll down this page, there is a somewhat similar photo of pitching the San Francisco Anchor Steam, which is also done in open fermentation. At about 40 seconds in this video, you can see the open fermenters going.
 
Last edited:

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
2,439
Location
UK
Well the barm of a proper top-fermenting yeast is a pretty good seal, and a bit of oxidation is expected if you're serving cask-conditioned beer.

The problem comes with the German influence on US brewing, bottom-fermenting lager yeast don't give the same protection to the beer and the move to conicals led to the selection of ale yeast that sank to the bottom.

So - blame the Germans.
 

Hanglow

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
807
Location
Glasgow
I think "good sealing lids and airlocks" came with the bizzare homebrew idea that you had to ferment an ale for two week before packaging it, if I was leaving a bitter in a bucket for two weeks I can see why sealing it would be a good idea! And a brewery should be spotless, I doubt any house is as close to being as clean
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand
Can't beat a pint of Harveys. Great page to read and watch especially the bit about the yeast.

Plenty of open ferment here, it's vigorous.

 

monkeymath

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
279
Reaction score
239
Well the barm of a proper top-fermenting yeast is a pretty good seal, and a bit of oxidation is expected if you're serving cask-conditioned beer.

The problem comes with the German influence on US brewing, bottom-fermenting lager yeast don't give the same protection to the beer and the move to conicals led to the selection of ale yeast that sank to the bottom.

So - blame the Germans.
Interestingly, a number of German lagers are produced using open fermentation, e.g. Schönramer or Trumer (although technically Austrian, not German). Incidentally, these happen to be some of my favorites...
 

Snuffy

Airlock Sniffer
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
603
Reaction score
691
Given all the centuries that beer was fermented in open vats, how did we ever get so paranoid about good sealing lids and air locks?
I’ve been treated as a blasphemer and equated with anti-vaxers for simply stating that open transfer to a secondary isn’t the end of the world. I think some folks enjoy an identity that mixes brewer with scientist. There’s more to be an expert about if it requires complicated piping and a Tesla coil. The ends justify the means.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
4,089
Reaction score
2,479
Location
Bremen
Well the barm of a proper top-fermenting yeast is a pretty good seal, and a bit of oxidation is expected if you're serving cask-conditioned beer.

The problem comes with the German influence on US brewing, bottom-fermenting lager yeast don't give the same protection to the beer and the move to conicals led to the selection of ale yeast that sank to the bottom.

So - blame the Germans.
As usual :D
 

patto1ro

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
279
Reaction score
54
Interestingly, a number of German lagers are produced using open fermentation, e.g. Schönramer or Trumer (although technically Austrian, not German). Incidentally, these happen to be some of my favorites...
Pretty much all the breweries in Franconia open ferment.
 

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
338
Reaction score
248
Location
Ís ok snœrs ok miðnótts boði landi frá komum
Been looking through this thread and drooling over my favorite thing, as my name implies, Brittish ales!
I have after realising it was not that hard, cooked up a bunch of invert and looking for some help incorporating it to my brews, have already done a strong ale and a bitter with invert wich seem like they will turn out really nice after bottle conditioning.
It is a rebrew of my scottish export that I want to use invert in, was thinking something like maris otter as base, 10٪ demerara #3 and 10% Crisp crystal 150 and 240 and 3-4٪ low colour chocolate. Mash at 67c/60 min, boil 120min and fermented at 18c with wlp028. Hopped with Fuggle for ~18-20 IBU. Aiming for an OG of 1.050 so a somewhat dark chocolatey caramelly tasting brew.
Also try making invert 3 with light muscovado sugar if you can find it, it gives the invert a really fruity almost apple-sauce like caramel taste that fits really well in my strong ale atleast.
 

schmurf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
353
Reaction score
161
I can highly recommend the Five Points Best Bitter clone, it's a lovely beer. There is some recipes out there, like this one. 88% of the base malt and 4% each of the rest.
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand
@schmurf

I have my 5 points bitter clone just in secondary at the moment. Good you tube on it on the craft beer channel a couple of weeks ago with a brew day and serving. Also the whole program came from the five points brewery.
Very helpful team gave me lots of further advice.
Only issue is that I can't get the WLP 017 they use for it. Will have to wait for it to become available for the real taste.

But I have just got the beer engine which is currently disassembled in some PBW, can't work out how to get the water jacket off and have a good look at the cylinder to ensure really clean inside and the valves are all okay. I have contacted RLBS in UK but awaiting a reply.
 

schmurf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
353
Reaction score
161
Yes I think I saw that, they had a chat with martyn cornell too right? I like that channel. Maybe you mistyped, but it's wlp013 they use for their best bitter. What did you end up using instead?
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand
AAGH you are right, both places I tried didn't have WLP017 and then not on order and I should have been using WLP013. So much for my careful notes and multiple listenings.
I used Wyeast 1098 and that seems to ferment out pretty dry on my last ale.

Now I'm going to have to see if I can get the 013. What a cockup in my planning.

Just saw this from craft beer channel

 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
opps, link is above. thanks

WLP013 is a vault strain. I found it on one of the beer supply sites in the discounted sell-by date about 6 months ago. I just did a search of the usual suspects and don't see it. Not quite sure how "oaky" it is but the 5 points seems perfect for my next brew once I get some fuggles in.
 
Last edited:

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand

Watch the Youtube vids as well.

I was told by the brewery Burtonise the water and it's mentioned in the video but it's not clear on the real numbers.

I went with this water ratio as a bit of a compromise
five points water.JPG


I aimed for 30.5 litres in fermenter and used

4.9 kg Maris otter
0.223 kg Bairds amber malt
0.223 kg Med crystal
0.223 Wheat malt

Yeast nutrient, carrageenan and the hops .

Fuggles all the way.

I went with 50 g for 60
50 g for 15
100g at flameout

as mention above wrong yeast used wyeast 1098 and that is too dry.

Next time will get the right yeast.

Pitched yeast in from starter at 18 with Clarity ferm and let rise to 20 for that yeast and no pressure for first 72 hours then a few psi.
Racked off the trub and early yeast on day three.
Then raised to 22 for next 2 days and it was done at 1006

Then added finings and moved to the cellar at 16 celsius.

Testing this weekend with the engine ( they say best with sparkler ).

Will have to take there word for it.

I will find out what they really do for their water though.
Hopefully will get some wet Fuggles in the next week or so as it's harvest time down here.
 

schmurf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
353
Reaction score
161
opps, link is above. thanks

WLP013 is a vault strain. I found it on one of the beer supply sites in the discounted sell-by date about 6 months ago. I just did a search of the usual suspects and don't see it. Not quite sure how "oaky" it is but the 5 points seems perfect for my next brew once I get some fuggles in.
I just placed an order for wlp013, this will be my 3rd brew of this beer and it's wonderful. At first glance the hopping amount may seem a bit much for an English bitter but it works great.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,142
Reaction score
2,439
Location
UK
WLP013 is a vault strain.
Nope, WLP013 London Ale is a core strain, WLP017 Whitbread II is a pretty elusive Vault strain but IIRC it's their version of 1099.

On water, this is Murphy's advice aimed at British commercial brewers - note that the heading on the table at the end is misaligned by one column, they suggest 170 Ca, 200 Cl, 400 SO4 for bitter.


That's not fair, the default is to blame the French. (and I can usually get away with that as long as I bring her a mug of tea in the morning...)
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand
Thanks @schmurf I'm still going to try and track down what they actually use at Five points. I couldn't bring myself to put the Brewers friend recommended level of sulphate in the brew.

I will find out though.

Now I have looked elsewhere for the right yeast it's out there for me. So good news for next time.
 

Brewbuzzard

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
1,716
Location
Dallas
I just kegged 20 gal of Scottish Export. I had 22 gal in the fermenters so I could get each keg full of perfectly clean beer. I got the recipe from Homebrewtalk but I can't remember the exact thread. I tweeked it a bit but it was a great little drinking beer to begin with.
IMG_20210415_110053542.jpg
 

schmurf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
353
Reaction score
161
Thanks @schmurf I'm still going to try and track down what they actually use at Five points. I couldn't bring myself to put the Brewers friend recommended level of sulphate in the brew.

I will find out though.

Now I have looked elsewhere for the right yeast it's out there for me. So good news for next time.
If you eventually find out what they use please let me know. I'm thinking for my upcoming brew I will try the water @Northern_Brewer pasted, even though those high numbers scare me slightly. Not that I'm unhappy with my water, but you never know what a tweak might do.
 

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
338
Reaction score
248
Location
Ís ok snœrs ok miðnótts boði landi frá komum
Gonna brew a bitter this sunday, and have changed my recipe a little after reading around in this thread. As it is now it will be:
Crisp MO 85%
UK crystal (~170EBC) 5%
Low colour chocolate malt 2%
Invert #3 8% (will boil the entire 90 min boil)

Gonna use Challenger as bittering, Bramling Cross as flavor for 15min at about 0,5g/L and Fuggle and Bramling Cross as aroma for 2 min, about 4g/L and divided 60/40 Fuggle/BC.
Aiming for 1.054 OG and 5.5% abv before bottle conditioning is done, 40 IBU according to Beersmith.
Only thing I feel unsure about is water, I am not nearly experienced enough in water adjustment to do anything extreme so I'll go with additions giving 94 CL, 142 SO4, 32 NA, 92 CA.
Will brew a variant with Bramling Cross replaced by First Gold aswell, possibly switch Fuggle to EKG and probably switch between the two varieties as house ales.
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
820
Reaction score
358
Location
Paremata New Zealand
@schmurf Re the water. I was warned off the very high sulphate 400 region because they said several pints at that concentration ( certainly the level on brewers friend for burton water ) could give you very loose motions!! Hence my lower level.

I have emailed my contact at 5 points and will update asap.
 

tracer bullet

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
499
Reaction score
391
Location
Minnesota
I think this guy makes interesting videos, this one in particular might be of interest pertaining to this thread:

I'm making an ESB of some sort for my next brew. I really like the dual crystal idea, using both medium and high L's, found above and will incorporate that.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
618
Reaction score
631
Nope, WLP013 London Ale is a core strain, WLP017 Whitbread II is a pretty elusive Vault strain but IIRC it's their version of 1099.
You are correct as usual! I must have looked up WLP017 instead of WLP013 in the vault.

That said, just jumping in to share that a dual pitch of WLP017 (one of the other Whitbread strains) and S-04 (whitbread dry) was judged at my LHBS as being far superior to either individual strain in an ordinary bitter. And that the WLP017 was considered "better" by the crowd than S-04.
 

MuntonsJasonC

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
13
Location
Beverly
Brewed my dark mild recipe at Backbeat Brewing in Beverly, Mass. One of my original homebrew recipes that I tweaked and perfected.

OG 1.039
FG 1.011
SRM 24
ABV 3.8%

Muntons Mild Malt 75%
Muntons Crystal 150 (60L) 12.5%
Muntons Amber Malt 8%
Muntons Chocolate Malt 4.5%

Fuggles 19 IBU at 60 min

Wyeast 1099

http://instagr.am/p/CNqk61eFKmf/
 
Last edited:

Barbarossa

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
307
Reaction score
475
Location
Montreal
I had a special request to make a caramel brown ale. Planning on mashing for full body @156 and boiling two hours. Probably wyeast 1098 @20C for two weeks, some caramel 65 and Vienna for sweetness.

You guys think I'll be way off? Any improvment you can see?
 
Top