English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[JKaranka]

Brewing this one in the next few months -

Mild Ale c. 1824 10 gallon batch

2 lbs 8.5 oz Amber (Crisp) 10%
10 lbs 2 oz Caramalt (Thomas Fawcett) 40%
12 lbs 10 oz Mild Malt - Muntons 50%

Mash In Add 9.49 gal of water at 162.9 F 152.0 F
Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 7.54gal) of 168.0 F water
6.5 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min

West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469)

1.054 OG
1.016 FG
40 IBU
18 SRM
5.1 % ABV

Cribbed from my Mild Ale book.
Seems like a lot of Caramalt but have not tried this malt yet, anyone have experience with it? along with Muntons Mild Ale or should I go with Briess Ashburne?

Anyway....Critiques please.

Couple of things:
1) I'd expect only the weakest milds to have an OG of 1.054 in the 1820-1850 period
2) Are you sure it's caramalt?! I've never seen crystal malts in British recipes before around 1870 or so, and even after that they are pretty rare. I'd expect two types of pale malt (mild and pale) and amber malt in this one.
3) It already has plenty of amber malt!

 

[Qhrumphf]

With that much crystal malt I'd expect an FG far higher than that. Agreed, are you sure caramalt is correct?

 

[JKaranka]

Just picked up my mild book. To compare, Truman XXXX from 1832 has only pale malt for an OG of 1.140 and 9.5oz of hops in the boil. It would have been the strongest of their range. In 1831 X was 1.066, XX was 1.079, XXX was 1.094.

 

[deere322]

The recipe was taken from Mild Ale by David Sutula.

Recipe calls for -
Caramalt (carapils) 40%

Is there a difference between caramalt and carapils?
Also it's called out as 1.066 OG
But when I beersmith'd it came out with 1.054.

I'm wondering if it should have been another pale malt instead of the carmalt.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Huh. I just checked my copy. That's indeed what it says. I know that studies have shown that even 100% crystal malt worts will attenuate far further than conventional homebrew wisdom would suggest, but I still have a hard time envisioning that working well.

 

[JKaranka]

The book I've seen on amazon is from 1999. Our understanding of historical British styles has moved on a lot since. You can get brewing records for milds of the period, though.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The book I've seen on amazon is from 1999. Our understanding of historical British styles has moved on a lot since. You can get brewing records for milds of the period, though.

Recipe in question allegedly came from the period, "Converted from Youngs Brewing Monitor (London, 1824)". I would assume based on citation that there were gaps. I'm not sure that Sutula is as good at filling in the gaps as Ron is though.

Edit: Ahh, yes, book is from 1999. So who knows.

 

[rhys333]

What do you guys think about my ESB recipe? My dad went in for knee replacement surgery yesterday and I'd like to do this one for him. I intended to use Challenger hops, but I have Chinook on had and I think they'll work equally well, if not strictly traditional.

BUSTED KNEE ESB 5.5 gal / 1.055 / 45 IBU
82% MO
10% Wheat
5% C70-90
3% Aromatic
0.25 oz Warrior @ 60
1 oz Chinook @ 10
2 oz Chinook @ 0 (+ 20 min hop stand)
WY 1469

 

[MaryB]

NB's InnKeeper is a favorite of mine!

I love English beers.... I always have and ordinary bitter or Dark Mild on tap. Two good places to start with ordinary bitters - Northern Brewer's "The Innkeeper" recipe or the "Boddington's Clone" in the Homebrewtalk database.

Good british malts, good yeast..... I have become partial to 1318 or 1469. Also like 1968.

My most recent version is roughly as follows:
90% Maris Otter
2.5% of each of the following -
Carapils
British Crystal 40
British Crystal 120
Wheat

3 additions of EKG - 1 ounce at 60, 45 and 0 (40IBU's).
(I am making about 6 gallons)

Shooting for gravity of around 1.038-1.042

Do not shoot for "burton water".
If you use B'run water - I am targeting water numbers that are basically around this:
Calcium: 75
Sulfate: 125-150
Chloride: 25-35
Bicarbonate:50
Others are all relatively low
Getting Mash pH of 5.2-5.3
I dilute my tap water quite a bit with Reverse Osmosis water (80% or so)

Control ferm temps...... mid-upper 60's beer temps.

Carbonate on the low side.

 

[JKaranka]

What do you guys think about my ESB recipe? My dad went in for knee replacement surgery yesterday and I'd like to do this one for him. I intended to use Challenger hops, but I have Chinook on had and I think they'll work equally well, if not strictly traditional.

BUSTED KNEE ESB 5.5 gal / 1.055 / 45 IBU
82% MO
10% Wheat
5% C70-90
3% Aromatic
0.25 oz Warrior @ 60
1 oz Chinook @ 10
2 oz Chinook @ 0 (+ 20 min hop stand)
WY 1469

Is the aromatic malt like a Belgian substitute for amber malt? To be fair, I'd think of replacing it with flaked maize and lower the % of wheat. You can always add 0.25% patent malt for colour if you fancy that.

 

[rhys333]

Is the aromatic malt like a Belgian substitute for amber malt? To be fair, I'd think of replacing it with flaked maize and lower the % of wheat. You can always add 0.25% patent malt for colour if you fancy that.

Thanks for the repy JKaranka. I'm looking for a firm malt backbone with this one and I'm thinking the small aromatic addition will play nicely with the 1469 yeast. What's your thinking with the flaked maise?

 

[JKaranka]

Thanks for the repy JKaranka. I'm looking for a firm malt backbone with this one and I'm thinking the small aromatic addition will play nicely with the 1469 yeast. What's your thinking with the flaked maise?

Flaked maize is fairly flavour neutral. Helps you keep the body in check and brings out that alcohol note. So the opposite direction of what you're going for Even better is some invert sugar. I don't know what it is about small simple sugar additions but they really bring out the caramel in British beers, plus help to make reliable bright beers.

 

[deere322]

Recipe in question allegedly came from the period, "Converted from Youngs Brewing Monitor (London, 1824)". I would assume based on citation that there were gaps. I'm not sure that Sutula is as good at filling in the gaps as Ron is though.

Edit: Ahh, yes, book is from 1999. So who knows.

I'll scrap that recipe and find one of Ron's AK mild recipes.
I do have his 1914 Courage Imperial Stout slated for next weekend though.

 

[rhys333]

Flaked maize is fairly flavour neutral. Helps you keep the body in check and brings out that alcohol note. So the opposite direction of what you're going for Even better is some invert sugar. I don't know what it is about small simple sugar additions but they really bring out the caramel in British beers, plus help to make reliable bright beers.

I have some medium invert I made a year back that's just starting to crystalize, so I could use up 4% or so of that.

 

[lowtones84]

Even better is some invert sugar. I don't know what it is about small simple sugar additions but they really bring out the caramel in British beers, plus help to make reliable bright beers.

What JKaranka said for sure. I put somewhere around 5% in every English style I make and it can really help a malty beer have a body that's not cloying while helping to bring out some of those caramel or dark fruit flavors people are seeking.

 

[rhys333]

Thanks for the feedback on my ESB guys. My gut told me to stick with the original recipe as I know with my system 1469 does tend to attenuate a lot more than most English strains. I want this one to stand out against my IPAs, so I'm deliberately pushing for increased malt presence. I brewed yesterday so all being well I'll be tasting the first beer in 6-7 weeks. It'll be interesting to see if the aromatic malt was a good idea.

 

[lowtones84]

I've used a small addition of biscuit to good effect before, and aromatic isn't completely off of that mark. It does take a little more time to meld smoothly into the flavor profile, though. I bet it will be tasty, even if it's not exactly what you were looking for.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I tend to think of Aromatic as "Super Munich" and Biscuit/Victory as "Super Maris Otter". Slightly different characters. I wouldn't see Aromatic being totally out of place, but I certainly wouldn't call it Amber Malt either. I also like Biscuit in my house English Ales. I think it plays well with Maris Otter and gives a little more bready, doughy oomph to the base.

 

[lowtones84]

Alright gents, what can I get drinkable in cask by in around 2 weeks? This is my first thought:

(4 gallon batch)

Est OG: 1.042
Est IBU: 28

5 lbs. MO
8 oz. Flaked Maize
4 oz. Homemade invert #2

.66 oz. EKG @60
.5 oz. EKG @ FO
.5 oz Centennial @ FO

WLP 007

Meant to be a quaffer at a party other than the 20ish bottles I get after filling to 1 gallon pins. Still want to have something interesting, though as at least a few guests are into beer. Flaked maize and invert too much? I've definitely seen a recipe or two with both on our beloved site but I've never actually done it.

The Centennial is a bit of a whim but I actually think it plays somewhat nicely with EKG as evidenced in my barley wine that's coming around. Could swap it out for Fuggles. Have plenty of color and specialty English malts, but I think keeping this simple is key.

Thanks as always!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I say leave the centennial.

Is that suposed to be 8 oz flaked maize instead of 8 lb?

 

[lowtones84]

Haha yes! Not 8 lbs. of corn...thanks for the catch.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Not sure who's coming to NHC but I'll have my house Ordinary Bitter, a wheat variant of the Mild that made finals (basically the same beer I already posted, replace the flaked oats with flaked wheat, the MO with wheat malt, scale back the chocolate malt and use #4 invert instead of #3), and an English IPA pouring at some point between social club and club night.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Out at Hogshead in Denver Colorado. Absolutely fantastic English Ales. Hit them up if you find yourself in Denver.

Pardon the sideways pics, phone troubles. But AK Ordinary Bitter, Cook Lane Best Bitter, and Gilpin Black Gold Porter, all on handpull, all fantastic.

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[JKaranka]

Lol, Strong ESB is like saying Pale IPA. What's the AK like? Not seen any in the UK but they seemed to be light, cheap bitters.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Lol, Strong ESB is like saying Pale IPA. What's the AK like? Not seen any in the UK but they seemed to be light, cheap bitters.

No opinion as I didn't try it. I had a 2 hour drive south so I didn't try everything (shame) and stuck to the low octane cask stuff.

As far as the AK, that's more or less it. Lightly malty, a little caramel, lightly fruity but pretty clean, decidedly bitter, and an earthy marmalade sort of hop. Somewhere between Kent Goldings and a UK Cascade. Hell, maybe both. I got a growler of the porter because that was on keg as well, but the AK and the Cook Lane were the best of the lot, but handpull only so no growlers. But they were all bloody good.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also I would expect the Strong ESB to be along the Adnams Broadside vein from how he described it. Their head brewer is English. These all tasted more authentic than almost any other US brewery I've tried. Only one to compete also has an Englishman head brewer and is equally authentic, but uses Ringwood for everything which is not my yeast of choice.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I also had the Denver's Pride Best Bitter which was more in the Golden Bitter vein (with Americanish hopping, but subtle), and the Lake Lightening was pretty typical UK Export Pale Ale.

 

[Gameface]

I should plan a road trip to Denver sometime and give those a try!

 

[JKaranka]

I find it very puzzling that anybody would drive to a beer festival or a pub! Here I always make sure to use public transport and if it carries on till very late, to book a B&B or something.

Cool looking Scottish ale on SUABP:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/lets-brew-1879-william-younger-no-1.html#links

 

[Qhrumphf]

I find it very puzzling that anybody would drive to a beer festival or a pub! Here I always make sure to use public transport and if it carries on till very late, to book a B&B or something.

Cool looking Scottish ale on SUABP:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/lets-brew-1879-william-younger-no-1.html#links

Lots of places here where public transportation isn't possible. As in most of the country. Even some of the major cities.