English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Hanglow]

http://www.jamesgretton.co.uk/samuelsmiths/ There you go, not sure if it's entirely correct.


Their Nut Brown ale is one I always point out for people who want to know what diacetyl tastes like in beer . Most of their ales have a fair amount

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yep, when I was talking about mild I meant the 20th century watery stuff, not the Victorian milds like Sarah Hughes. Most of the festivals I go to seem to have SH on, but that means that it's not the treat that it is for those in that London so they don't go too crazy for it. It's frustrating, there does seem to be a small move back towards dark beers, but you can't blame publicans for not stocking it until they are confident of emptying a full cask in reasonable time, even if it's just a pin.

I almost mentioned Sam Smith, but they are an oddball. Imagine if all you saw of ABInBev was Bourbon County Stout, you'd think of them as a brewer of amazing stouts and not understand all the online hate from people living in the land of Bud and Stella. Sam Smiths is a bit like that - their US importer has great PR and you only see their premium bottled products and don't see their pretty average draught products. And of course you guys buy into the whole history thing, which we maybe get a bit blazé about - heck, we have beer in our supermarkets called 1698 after the foundation date of the company (and brewing on or near the Sheps site probably goes back to monastic times, they're arguably a more authentic abbey brewer than many of the Belgians).

Conversely in the UK a traditional brewer is judged primarily on the quality of their cask bitter, and Sam Smiths ignore the "rules" by only having one (served from wooden kilderkins) that's a bit meh and a whole load of own-brand lagers (to be fair at one time they made some of the best UK lager, but have rather stood still whilst the market has moved on). And there's probably a bit of snobbery about the low prices, which I suspect is more to do with having lots of freeholds that they've owned for decades and are fully written off, than their own-brand nuts. They could really do with making a Landlord equivalent, a little stronger and without Humphrey's penny-pinching, even if it was just as an occasional special, it would do their reputation here a world of good.

So yes, the bottles you see are good beers, but they are oddities that nobody really drinks here. As I should have said more clearly in the original post, anything more than 4.5% is rare on cask outside city centres, although it's now pretty common to have something hoppy at 5-6% on keg. So the likes of 6% Winter Welcome and 7% Imperial Stout just aren't very representative of what Brits drink.

Yes, the pubs are famous, if only for some of the eccentric rules that Humphrey imposes, it's very much a company moulded in the image of one man. He also annoyed a lot of people when the main bridge in Tadcaster was damaged by floods, people had to make a 10-mile trip the long way round because he wouldn't let them use his land for a temporary bridge, and there's been various rumours, rapidly jumped on by lawyers, about their treatment of their tenants.

But they have some glorious pubs - if you're in London then the ones on Holborn get a lot of attention - the Princess Louise near Holborn tube and the Victorian fake-medieval glory of the Cittie of York near Chancery Lane tube, plus the Cheshire Cheese on Fleet St.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I find that the beer itself has a common flavour running through it. You either like it or you don't. Some of my friends don't like it. I definitely do. It's a sort of mild 'bite' that I associate with the Yorkshire bitters I grew up with. It might be the water or the yeast. Probably both.

There's not definitive proof, but the internet often links Sam Smiths yeast to the WLP037 vault strain, which is a POF+ saison type that homebrewers struggle with because of its huge phenolics. I've got some but not used it yet - suffice to say that Wiper & True are making some well-regarded saisons with it. I must admit I've not had OBB since WLP037 was sequenced, it would be interesting to try it with that in mind.

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm totally on board with your assessment, @Northern_Brewer. As a brewer, beer drinker, and far-too-infrequent world traveler, I tend to be fascinated by everything that is NOT American. I enjoy Cascade and Mosaic hops, but generally yawn at the IPA craze.

I do love English beers and brewing history. I've taken a "beer trip" to England and visited Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Burton, and London breweries and other landmarks, plus the GBBF. Cask beer is to die for and we almost literally have none of that here in the US.

So for a poor sod like me, Sam's in the bottle is among the best indulgences available. And it is noted indeed that in England, their pubs don't serve it on cask. That was disappointing, but it didn't dull my overall enthusiasm for the flavor of their product.

I tried brewing once with WLP037 and it was terrible. I've had great luck with WY1469 though. Obviously we can brew excellent, authentic beers anywhere with the right water treatment and fermentation techniques, the full cask experience notwithstanding unfortunately.

 

[HTH1975]

Oddly enough, I live about 25 minutes from the Sam Smiths brewery in Tadcaster and I don’t see it in any pubs round here.

 

[EnglishAndy]

Oddly enough, I live about 25 minutes from the Sam Smiths brewery in Tadcaster and I don’t see it in any pubs round here.

If you're ever passing through Follifoot it's worth stopping off for a pint at the Harewood Arms.

 

[Miraculix]

I just bought a bottle ofnut brown, they ran out of the ipa

Sierra Nevada pale instead and a bottle of marstons 61 deep ale, never had it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Oddly enough, I live about 25 minutes from the Sam Smiths brewery in Tadcaster and I don’t see it in any pubs round here.

They don't really deal with the free trade - the above map lists only the White Bear in York, but 20+ tied houses. They do pop up in random places - last time I was at Tebay services on the M6 they had pretty much a full set of bottles, including Stingo and the fruit beers (which are better than they should be).

The same could be said for 61 Deep - the reference is to the depth of the "special" Burton aquifer, but the beer got something like a bronze in the World Beer Awards. Not had it in bottle, but surprisingly nice on cask.

 

[HTH1975]

They don't really deal with the free trade - the above map lists only the White Bear in York, but 20+ tied houses. They do pop up in random places - last time I was at Tebay services on the M6 they had pretty much a full set of bottles, including Stingo and the fruit beers (which are better than they should be).

The same could be said for 61 Deep - the reference is to the depth of the "special" Burton aquifer, but the beer got something like a bronze in the World Beer Awards. Not had it in bottle, but surprisingly nice on cask.

I’m pretty sure that Sam Smiths don’t brew those fruit beers themselves.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

They brew the core beer at Melbourn Bros' All Saints Brewery in Stamford, which they bought in 1974. Then they truck it up the A1 for fruiting and bottling in Taddy.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I tried brewing once with WLP037 and it was terrible. I've had great luck with WY1469 though. Obviously we can brew excellent, authentic beers anywhere with the right water treatment and fermentation techniques, the full cask experience notwithstanding unfortunately.

True dat! WLP037 Yorkie Squares is beyond my abilities. I recently got it from the vault, tried a couple of batches and throwing in the towel. Page two on this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...r-london-ale-iii-aka-boddintons-yeast.654324/

WY1469 West Yorkshire is supposedly the Samuel Smith strain. The WLP037 Yorkshire Squares is supposedly from Timothy Taylor. I can say the WY1469 makes good homebrew, and the two WLP037 batches I did were barely drinkable. YMMV

 

[McKnuckle]

WY1469 West Yorkshire is supposedly the Samuel Smith strain. The WLP037 Yorkshire Squares is supposedly from Timothy Taylor.

I wish! Everything I've read claims it's the other way around.

Sam Smith only bottle conditions their Stingo (barleywine), which is aged for a year and released annually. I've wanted to find a bottle and try to culture the yeast, assuming it's even the real stuff as opposed to something neutral for bottling. And assuming one could even resurrect those poor abused cells.

 

[HTH1975]

I wish! Everything I've read claims it's the other way around.

Sam Smith only bottle conditions their Stingo (barleywine), which is aged for a year and released annually. I've wanted to find a bottle and try to culture the yeast, assuming it's even the real stuff as opposed to something neutral for bottling. And assuming one could even resurrect those poor abused cells.

If you REALLY wanted bottle, there’s a place about 15 mins down the road from me that stocks all the Sam Smiths bottled beers.

Could also be worth speaking with Brewlab - I’m sure they will have Sam Smiths yeast.

 

[okiedog]

Northern Brewer, I just read your very enlightening comments about British beers. I found your comments about Samuel Smith especially interesting, and think you should contact them and share your opinion. Talking or corresponding with brewery management can sometimes yield some surprising responses and results. I used to think that if I shared my comments and opinion with a brewery's management/staff, they would just brush me off like some shmuck. To the contrary, on the several occasions that I did contact a brewery (both in the US and in Europe), either asking for information, or sharing an observation, I have found them very receptive and responsive.

 

[okiedog]

I wish! Everything I've read claims it's the other way around.

Sam Smith only bottle conditions their Stingo (barleywine), which is aged for a year and released annually. I've wanted to find a bottle and try to culture the yeast, assuming it's even the real stuff as opposed to something neutral for bottling. And assuming one could even resurrect those poor abused cells.

If I recall correctly, Timothy Taylors is purported to be a blend of 4 different strains.

 

[okiedog]

They brew the core beer at Melbourn Bros' All Saints Brewery in Stamford, which they bought in 1974. Then they truck it up the A1 for fruiting and bottling in Taddy.

Interesting.

 

[MyQuL]

If anyone knows what British beer is available around Chicago, it will be @Gadjobrinus .


Classic milk stout is also almost extinct having been hugely popular in the 1950s - Mackeson was the granddaddy of the category but ABI have now reduced it down to 2.8% in the UK for tax reasons. An XXX export version has been brewed in the US, supposedly the Mackeson brewed in Trinidad is the best of the bunch. Bristol Beer Bactory arguably now make the best milk stout in the UK.

Perhaps it's the (London) Pubs I go to but a lot of micro's seem to do a milk stout and I've found it a number of times when going out for a beer. I agree with you about milds though, I've only ever seen it twice in a pub here in 15 years (not including 'spoons beer festivals). Once in a Sam Smith pub, and there's one of the two harvey's owned pubs near me in SE London and there always seems to be their mild on hand pull (but I've never had it though as I always choose the bitter)

 

[Miraculix]

Samuel Smith yesterday wasn't the beer of the evening, Marstons 61 deep pale ale was also not that good (I think the bottle was old), hero of the evening was Sierra Nevada pale ale. Classic but great. Tonight I am testing the Samuel Smith pale ale.... And afterwards two Sierra Nevada pale ales, just in case...

 

[MyQuL]

If I recall correctly, Timothy Taylors is purported to be a blend of 4 different strains.

That's interesting, according to the yeast map on the barclay perkins blog, it's originally possibly the Courage strain.
I got a bottle of Courage 1977 jubilee ale from ebay (along with 8 other jubilee ales) and tried to culture up any yeast in the bottle but it got infected

 

[Northern_Brewer]

WY1469 West Yorkshire is supposedly the Samuel Smith strain. The WLP037 Yorkshire Squares is supposedly from Timothy Taylor.

I wish! Everything I've read claims it's the other way around.

Although that's the conventional wisdom, kmarkstevens' version probably makes more sense from a genetic point of view, although it's all couldawouldshoulda. An isolate from Harvey's yeast has been sequenced and been found to be a POF+ saison type, which makes sense as there is a slight phenolic note in Harvey's Best. We know Harvey's yeast came from John Smith in 1957. Supposedly Tim Taylor's "have used the same culture for nearly 30 years which came to Timothy Taylor's from the old Magnet brewery in Tadcaster via a defunct Oldham brewery". Magnet is the John Smith brewery; TT have various links to Oldham Brewery, which culminated in them buying the old kit after Boddies closed it down. 1469 is a typical POF- British yeast, most closely related to WLP022 Essex; WLP037 is a POF+ saison type. The only slight catch with this theory is that the Harvey's isolate is more closely related to WLP038 Manchester, so it doesn't quite fit.

I suspect none of them are direct matches, but there does seem to be a link between the POF+ saison types in Britain and the use of Yorkshire squares.

I do have some Stingo, but not opened it yet. I suspect they probably do use the production strain, but I don't know for certain. As for making a suggestion - this is not your normal brewery, it's one of the most eccentric companies in the UK....

 

[McKnuckle]

I do have some Stingo, but not opened it yet.

In the interest of science, if you were to attempt to harvest the yeast... I think folks here would be very interested.

Very interesting post!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Perhaps it's the (London) Pubs I go to but a lot of micro's seem to do a milk stout and I've found it a number of times when going out for a beer. I agree with you about milds though, I've only ever seen it twice in a pub here in 15 years (not including 'spoons beer festivals). Once in a Sam Smith pub, and there's one of the two harvey's owned pubs near me in SE London and there always seems to be their mild on hand pull (but I've never had it though as I always choose the bitter)

Maybe in the craftier places, but even in London with the legacy of Whitbread/Mackeson as "locals"(ish) I wouldn't say milk stout is seen much in "normal" pubs, and certainly not outside London. And the modern ones tend not to be "classic" milk stouts but messed around ones, under the influence of the infamous pastry stouts of the US.

If I had the Royal Oak close to me, I certainly wouldn't just stick to the Best, although it would get more than its fair share of attention.

Yep, one of the main reasons I buy bottled commercial beer is to see what yeast I can get out of them....

 

[MyQuL]

Maybe in the craftier places, but even in London with the legacy of Whitbread/Mackeson as "locals"(ish) I wouldn't say milk stout is seen much in "normal" pubs, and certainly not outside London. And the modern ones tend not to be "classic" milk stouts but messed around ones, under the influence of the infamous pastry stouts of the US.

If I had the Royal Oak close to me, I certainly wouldn't just stick to the Best, although it would get more than its fair share of attention.

Yep, one of the main reasons I buy bottled commercial beer is to see what yeast I can get out of them....

Dunno how often you get to London (if ever?) but nowadays the craftier places are the "normal" pubs,here. It's only really the large chains like Youngs and Fullers that havent changed much.

Tbh, I dont often go to the Royal Oak (even though its so close), so when I do go I always get tempted by the bitter

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Dunno how often you get to London (if ever?) but nowadays the craftier places are the "normal" pubs,here. It's only really the large chains like Youngs and Fullers that havent changed much.

I’m currently on a train through the London suburbs... I think you have to distinguish between the kind of place that we as beer geeks tend to hang out in most of the time and the reality of what most pubs are actually like. The fact that the tied chains are large means they make up a big number of pubs. And I’m struggling to recall ever seeing a milk stout, certainly not a “classic” milk stout even in pretty hardcore beery places like the Harp or Euston Tap. Maybe more in the Draft House/CBC kind of places - but they are a vanishingly small proportion of London’s beer establishments.

 

[okiedog]

That's interesting, according to the yeast map on the barclay perkins blog, it's originally possibly the Courage strain.
I got a bottle of Courage 1977 jubilee ale from ebay (along with 8 other jubilee ales) and tried to culture up any yeast in the bottle but it got infected

Now I'm not sure. Maybe it was Ringwood, but one of the British ale yeasts was a blend of 4 separate strains in specific ratio or additions. Guess I'll have to go back and do some research to refresh my memory.

 

[McKnuckle]

In the interest of science, if you were to attempt to harvest the [Sam Smith's Yorkshire Stingo] yeast... I think folks here would be very interested.

The other day I was early to pick up my daughter at the strip mall where her school bus stops, so I dropped into the small liquor store there to see if they had any Belgians. They are known for carrying a decent selection of American craft beer, but nothing exotic or foreign.

But look - there were a couple bottles of Sam Smith Pale Ale! It's one we don't see often here in New Jersey. So I went to inspect them. Imagine my shock when, hiding in a dusty corner, obscured from view, were not one, but four (4) bottles of Yorkshire Stingo! I bought two of them at $12 USD each.

Last night I prepared some low gravity starter wort and sanitized a jar for yeast collection. Then I cracked a bottle of Stingo and poured... I wish I had a photo here. But oh my, how very tragic, the beer had gone south in the bottle. It was turbid and heavily oxidized, with a cardboard/Madeira wine flavor. The carbonation was correct though, so I am hoping it did not get infected. It was not sour.

But unfortunately it was totally undrinkable. And so, from its noble origin at The Old Brewery to one year in an oak cask and then a humble bottle, this beer was henceforth relegated to my house plumbing and septic tank.

However, I salvaged the dregs as planned and began the step-up process last night with a small portion of wort. This morning it sure looks like I have some tiny CO2 bubbles. Cross your fingers... I have no idea if it's the house yeast or something they only use for bottle conditioning.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hmm - I thought I posted a response to this at the time, hohum

Now I'm not sure. Maybe it was Ringwood, but one of the British ale yeasts was a blend of 4 separate strains in specific ratio or additions. Guess I'll have to go back and do some research to refresh my memory.

Multistrains are historically the norm in British brewing and some can get into double figures. But yes, the full Ringwood is a 4-strain, although AIUI a lot of US breweries use a cut-down 2-strain version.

Fingers crossed for you McKnuckle, that was expensive vinegar! Hope it works out, although I'm not sure I like the sound of "turbid", that suggests something else has got in there.

One of the reasons I got my Stingo is that there seems some uncertainty about what goes in it, I suspect that Sam Smith would probably use the production strain, they're low-tech like that.

 

[McKnuckle]

And THIS is why the beer was bad! I mentioned that the bottles were basically hidden at the shop. Look at the brewed date on the bottom left. I think it’s the first run of Stingo to be exported... I won’t get my hopes up!

 

[okiedog]

Northern Brewer, that British brewers used a blend of so many different yeast strains, was a surprise to me. I must say that I am very interested in the Timothy Taylor blend of yeast strains. Some while ago, I read that one of the first breweries in the U. S. to brew British style ales (since prohibition, I suppose), used the Timothy Taylor yeast system for fermentation. As I recall, it wasn't just a blend of yeasts, but there was a specific ratio and timing for adding each strain. But now I cannot find that article, and certainly am not clear on the particulars.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Heh. I don't know how things work across the pond but is there not a best-before date that you could get them on? Or is it one of those 10-years-in-the-future best befores?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Supposedly Tim Taylors use a yeast that came from John Smiths via Oldham Brewery, which was bought by Boddington's in the early 80s and TT ended up buying the old equipment from around 1990-ish, but suppposedly they got the yeast from them in the early 80s. The John Smith yeast had a great reputation and also ended up at Harvey's in 1957; one strain from Harvey's has been sequenced and it's one of these POF+ saison types, very different to Wyeast 1469 which is traditionally linked to Taylors but which if anything looks like WLP022 Essex.

 

[ba-brewer]

I recently got some slopes from Brewlabs and the first one I made a beer from was F-40. It took off quite quickly and finished up a few days. I had checked the gravity with a refractometer and thought I had attenuation of about 70% on the last reading(day4) but when I kegged the beer the hydrometer was much different it went from 1046 down to 1018, 61% attenuation. Took a little sip of the hydrometer sample and got a very strong soapy taste/flavor. The flavor really takes over my mouth and required a good rinsing to get rid of the taste.

With the low attenuation I am wondering if this might be diacetyl because of the way it sort of tastes over mouth. Any thoughts?

details:
3gal batch, fly sparge 3gal mash 2gal of sparge water
5lb maris otter
42gm target 60min 3.5AA 31IBU
14gm target 10min 3.5AA 4IBU
150F mash for 70min them up to 162F for 20min.

ferment 68F for 3days then up to 70F until day 10 when kegged.

The mash pH at 25min was lower than expected at 4.75 instead of the estimated 5.4. Not sure how I screwed it up.

Starter built up from the slant/slope grew quick got a decent amount of slurry, crashed for less than a day.

Finish beer was a slightly hazy but the fermentor had a decent compacted cake at the end. Gas from airlock smell fruity, top of beer in fermentor was clear on top.

edit: The taste was warm from the fermentor, plan to let it carb and try again in a few weeks.
edit2: I did a forced diacetyl test and did not get any butterscotch/buttery flavors or aroma, but the soapiness seemed to lower a bit and the overall bitterness of the beer seemed to increase.

 

[bwible]

While I appreciate the US approach to brewing milds (5 types of specialty malts and the kitchen sink) there is something to be said for brewing a nice malty bitter and darkening it up with brewers caramel, per Tim Taylors.

I just saw this. So help me out - what kind of recipe would be better? Everything in my recipe has a purpose. Maris Otter for rich base malt, (or alternatively, one of the mild ale malts like Paul’s would work), crystal for a little sweetness and color. Victory is for a biscuity or bready flavor as well as a body builder. Flaked wheat promotes head retention and is an additional body builder. Flaked barley also appears as a body builder in these recipes. We want body builders in a 1.037 beer. This is my approach only because I learned it this way.

Please remember that I live in the USA and that I have never had an authentic example of a real mild. I do have the AHA series Mild Ale book - and its one of the few I have actually read cover to cover. What I know of Mild comes from book and articles only though.

I always welcome advice and education, especially from others who have had things I have not and know things firsthand that I do not. So I would enjoy seeing an alternate version, especially one that is real and authentic as produced where this style originates.

Thank you!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I just saw this. So help me out - what kind of recipe would be better? Everything in my recipe has a purpose. Maris Otter for rich base malt, (or alternatively, one of the mild ale malts like Paul’s would work), crystal for a little sweetness and color. Victory is for a biscuity or bready flavor as well as a body builder. Flaked wheat promotes head retention and is an additional body builder. Flaked barley also appears as a body builder in these recipes. We want body builders in a 1.037 beer.

That's kinda where you're going wrong, you're aiming too high. Milds were traditionally the bottom of the pile, made with the cheapest malts, plenty of adjuncts and often returned slops; wateriness was a feature not a bug.

And you're making some of the common mistakes of US brewers when it comes to British styles - use speciality malts for flavour but not colour or (primarily) sweetness. Colour is mainly determined by caramel (traditionally, at least since 1880) or black malt (now used a bit in response to CAMRA pressure over adjuncts, but caramel remains the norm), and sweetness comes primarily from a yeast that doesn't attenuate too much.

Whilst less sugar is used than there used to be, it's no bad idea to balance out any crystal with at least an equivalent amount of invert as a first approximation, unless you're going for a really sweet southern-style beer. Foreign malts like victory are atypical. Although milds are primarily found in the Midlands, on the front line of the great sparkler debate, I'd generally take the view that you don't want a sparkler knocking out what little bitterness there is in this style (whilst I would expect sparklers on bitters) - so if you're serving without a sparkler, you don't need to worry about head retention.

If you want authentic, then look at Ron Pattinson's articles on mild and dark mild - you'll find a lot of recipes from the style's heyday in the mid 20th century that are little more than a cheap malt and sugar with some colouring. To be fair, there were some fancier ones, with more complex recipes - he's got a series of Lees Best Milds that look more appealing, from the 1950s when the UK was coming out of rationing. There's certainly an argument that one reason why the style fell out of favour was that so much of it was crap, and that perhaps the best way for it to have a future is as a kind of session porter along the lines of those 1950s Best Milds.

 

[z-bob]

Is this getting close to a proper Mild, or not trashy enough? (I started to specify Maris Otter for the pale malt, but thought that might be pretentious since what I really have is Rahr)

Style Name: Dark Mild
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.031
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.038
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 3.58%
IBU (tinseth): 17
SRM (morey): 12.6

5.75 lb - American - Pale Ale (88.5%)
5 oz - United Kingdom - Dark Crystal 80L (4.8%)
5 oz - Cane Sugar (4.8%)
2 oz - United Kingdom - Black Patent (1.9%)

Hops: 0.5 oz - First Gold, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 60 min
Yeast: Fermentis / Safale - Safbrew S-33 - General/Belgian Yeast

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/

 

[Miraculix]

I would throw in 10% flaked wheat or barley (preferably wheat) and I would change the yeast to Windsor or London esb from lallemand, if it needs to be a dry yeast. Otherwise I would go for imperial yeast pub, my new favorite for everything English and also a low attenuator (about 65 to70%).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Is this getting close to a proper Mild, or not trashy enough? (I started to specify Maris Otter for the pale malt, but thought that might be pretentious since what I really have is Rahr)

5 oz - Cane Sugar (4.8%)

Hops: 0.5 oz - First Gold, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.5, Use: Boil for 60 min
Yeast: Fermentis / Safale - Safbrew S-33 - General/Belgian Yeast

You're certainly there in spirit for a mid-20th century one. It's a tough one on the malt, brewers would use the cheapest malt to hand, but at the same time UK maltsters roast their pale malt a little higher than US ones do - which would point towards a basic UK pale malt - and if you're looking to recreate a mid-20th century one then that is a time before modern barleys had the flavour bred out of them. 80% of British barley in 1940 was either Plumage-Archer or Spratt-Archer, by the late 1950s it was 70% Proctor, the offspring of Plumage-Archer and a parent of Maris Otter. So while we now think of Otter as a premium variety, it's probably closer in taste to the kind of cheap barley they were using then.

I wouldn't use white sugar if you can - if you look at Ron's recipes you're typically seeing a mix of invert #2 & #3 or even #3&#4, you need the flavour from those darker sugars. I guess a darkish raw sugar would be a start.

It's a real shame that there's no West Midlands yeasts readily available, but really any charismatic yeast that doesn't attenuate too much will do, you need a bit of yeast character since you're not getting much from the hops or grist. So unless you're plundering Brewlab's catalogue, I guess Windsor/S-33 (they're close relatives) will do, otherwise look at liquid yeasts like WLP023, 1469, even Ringwood. Mangrove Jack M15 specifically mentions using it in dark beers, I've still not got round to trying it, and it may well be just repacked Windsor, but maybe worth a try if it's easy for you to get.

You see flaked barley a bit around WWII due to government orders, but wheat just about never. Sometimes you could get up to 40% mild malt, occasionally up to 10% amber. But it's worth emphasising that otherwise it's one of the most loosely-defined styles, so it's good for using up odd bits of malt (albeit not very much!) - or as a partigyle off a porter or Belgian dark. CAMRA like to promote mild in May, which is a good time to brew something big and dark for ageing 6 months to have at Christmas, and partigyling a mild off it gives you something to drink in the meantime, it means it's not all about delayed gratification!

Have a look at this table of post-WWII Lees Best Milds for an idea of how complicated and varied they could get in the real world, albeit during a period when the country was emerging from rationing. I quite fancy one of the early 1950s ones when the total sugar was still below 20% - if you poke around Ron's site he's done full recipes for several of those beers. But if you've never had a mild before and are wanting to get a feel for the "real and authentic" experience of the mid-20th century, then I'd stick with something along the lines of the above, mostly just malt and sugar with something to colour it. And in the meantime read Ron's description of mild's place in the culture of the time alongside a somewhat atypical recipe for 1969 Truman LM :

Ah, the happy hours I spent drinking this type of beer in the 1970’s. Ordinary, watery Mild. It’s sad that it’s become such a rarity.

Mild – especially cask Mild – is a cracking long drink. A beer to accompany, rather than dominate, an evening down the pub with your mates. I was reminded just how much I missed that sort of beer and that sort of session when I spent a Saturday evening with Jeff Bell in The Royal Oak in Southwark a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes you need to down at least half a gallon....

It’s quite an odd one in several ways. For a start, it’s coloured with roast barley, which isn’t a very common ingredient in Mild. In fact, it’s not a very common ingredient in English beer at all. Nor are roast malts that common in Mild. Not unheard of, but not that common. A spot of black or chocolate malt occasionally....

You may have assumed that brown sugar is a substitute for some other type of sugar. It isn’t. The original really did contain Tate & Lyle brown sugar. Though it did make up slightly less than half of the total sugar. Most of the rest was liquid cane sugar. There was also a touch of something called B.C.L., which I’m guessing is some sort of dark sugar. I’ve substituted No. 4 invert....

I know nothing about the hops, other than that they were English. Fuggles, which were the commonest hop grown in England, probably isn’t far wrong. They probably wouldn’t have wasted Goldings in a Mild. Feel free to use any traditional English hop variety.

I'd disagree a bit on the hops - Fuggles had taken a real beating from wilt by 1969, but the second-generation Wye hops like Challenger and Target hadn't yet hit the market, so I'd guess something like WGV or Northern Brewer or just random wild hops....

 

[bierhaus15]

I just saw this. So help me out - what kind of recipe would be better?

The authentic beer is not always the better tasting beer. Kitchen sink milds may taste nice and I also like brewing them on occasion - especially ones that end up like 3% ABV versions of London Porter - but I realize they are not milds.

My 'aha' mild moment came while touring a well known UK brewery with a group of brewers and we were all amazed to discover their mild was nothing more than standard bitter with caramel color added. It was shocking and relevetory. If I may wax poetic for a moment, I drank something like 5 pints of the mild that night and while it was not the most flavorful beer I've drunk in the UK, it was probably the most appropriate beverage for that setting; drinking in a cozy pub with other brewers, eating onion sandwiches, and arguing with our British hosts about US/UK brewing difference... and never once thinking I could be drinking a more flavorful beverage. That is mild.

That's kinda where you're going wrong, you're aiming too high. Milds were traditionally the bottom of the pile, made with the cheapest malts, plenty of adjuncts and often returned slops; wateriness was a feature not a bug.

Exactly. Milds for much of the last century, were the cheap-o lite lagers of their time.

I would also like to say two of my favorite "cheap boozer" UK home brew recipes are GW's Courage Director's Bitter and Watney's Red Barrel; the horror!

 

[Miraculix]

The authentic beer is not always the better tasting beer. Kitchen sink milds may taste nice and I also like brewing them on occasion - especially ones that end up like 3% ABV versions of London Porter - but I realize they are not milds.

My 'aha' mild moment came while touring a well known UK brewery with a group of brewers and we were all amazed to discover their mild was nothing more than standard bitter with caramel color added. It was shocking and relevetory. If I may wax poetic for a moment, I drank something like 5 pints of the mild that night and while it was not the most flavorful beer I've drunk in the UK, it was probably the most appropriate beverage for that setting; drinking in a cozy pub with other brewers, eating onion sandwiches, and arguing with our British hosts about US/UK brewing difference... and never once thinking I could be drinking a more flavorful beverage. That is mild.



Exactly. Milds for much of the last century, were the cheap-o lite lagers of their time.

I would also like to say two of my favorite "cheap boozer" UK home brew recipes are GW's Courage Director's Bitter and Watney's Red Barrel; the horror!

I wonder if in 50 years, the guys will try to brew an "authentic" bud light

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My 'aha' mild moment came while touring a well known UK brewery with a group of brewers and we were all amazed to discover their mild was nothing more than standard bitter with caramel color added. It was shocking and relevetory.

Whilst that kind of thing does happen, it represents one degenerate extreme of mild - it's the sort of thing that happens when a product is on its last legs and a brewery has a bit of demand for it but not enough to justify firing up the brewkit for a separate brew. It's not necessarily representative of the style as a whole (not least because colouring bitter will end up a bit too bitter for mild, it was more commonly sold as bottled Brown Ale) - think of what you saw as the Star Wars Episode 1 of mild...

The authentic beer is not always the better tasting beer. Kitchen sink milds may taste nice and I also like brewing them on occasion - especially ones that end up like 3% ABV versions of London Porter - but I realize they are not milds.

If you look at Ron's site you'll find plenty of evidence of mild as a brew in its own right, and being brewed in all sorts of ways from the "simple" malt + sugar approach to the kitchen sink approach of Lees' Best Milds in the 1950s, making do with whatever ingredients they could find.

I meant to say more explicitly, if you want to get a feel for milds, start with one of the "simple" ones, then brew one of those Lees beers - and then you're in a position to start thinking about what a modern mild would look like as they're undoubtedly evolving into something a bit less crap - better ingredients, less adjunct, more complexity. In fact I have a friend who every year flies a 2000-mile round trip just to drink (many) pints of cask mild at GBBF. But you kinda have to try the old style ones in order to get a feel for where "authentic mild" is coming from and what is faithful and what is improving it to the point of a fancification too far.

I would also like to say two of my favorite "cheap boozer" UK home brew recipes are GW's Courage Director's Bitter and Watney's Red Barrel; the horror!

Not so cheap - as the name suggests, Directors was originally brewed as a special for the brewery bosses and even today 4.8% marks it out as a premium beer on a British bar. Even Red Barrel started out as a premium product and by all accounts didn't deserve its current reputation, it gets conflated with the rebranded Red where they changed the recipe in the early 70s.