English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Gadjobrinus]

It's a fundamental mistake to try and adjust colour with "flavour" ingredients. Get the flavour right and then worry about the colour separately. If you don't have any caramel or black to hand, then you just say it's a Manchester bitter - Boddington's is effectively a pale malt/Goldings SMaSH.

Northern, just caught your use of "black" here as coloring agent. You mean black malt, yes? I've tried to keep any black - and I've used dark chocolate, as well, usually in tandem - to .1%, total of .2% with chocolate.

In Graham Wheeler's book, I'm seeing, in his Old Hooky for instance, a 1% usage of black malt. In lieu of obtaining caramel, it seems, Wheeler uses black for his homebrewers.

In his Pale Ale book, Terry Foster goes as high as .8%, at quick glance again. I always feared too strong a flavor contribution from the black malt at these levels. I use de-bittered, for the same reason.

In lieu of caramel (which I do actually have), how do you feel about black at up to 1%, in a strong bitter, say?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I don’t know any more than that, but it’s good news.

Forty Jobs Saved as Black Sheep Takes Over

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Is 002 supposed to be the fullers strain

That's what the internet thinks, but I'm a little bit sceptical - at the very least it (and the loosely-related 1968) don't have the typical marmalade of Fuller's actual yeast. So it could be that they've just mutated at some point over the years - or were never from Fuller's in the first place.

Would you say that 041 is somehow similar tastewise? Where do you see the difference between 002 and 041?

I've not done the side-by-side (it's on the to-do list) but those who have reckon that the 041 is significantly fruitier than 002. I've too many yeast and not enough brewing time, but 041 is possibly my favourite of the WL/Wyeast British yeasts so far, although I've still got plenty to go yet and that's without bottle/cask harvests and Brewlab....

1. Very pleased to say I just received some Brupak Brewer's Caramel! A colorin' we go! Thanks, as it was your note on using this, over colored malts for coloring, that guided the decision.

2. I will be trying some "Fuller's," complete with Target as kettle hop, Target as dry hop. Very curious about this, as, mirroring what you're saying, I don't know that I've seen a recipe anywhere using it. Have a lot of BX to use up as well. Actually, a lot of pellets as I just got a false bottom for the kettle and intend on getting a hopback and PC, if I can land on the PC to use. One thing at a time!

The whole caramel vs black thing is not something I get too religious about - as I say, growing up in Boddies country I'm used to my bitter being the colour of British pale malt. For about a century after the Free Mash Tun Act of 1880 it was always caramel, but the CAMRA influence means some now use black so that they can claim their "all-malt" credentials, not that it counts for anything really.

I've had all-Target beers commercially and there's been nothing about them that's had me rushing to make one - they're OK but why would you bother in a world with Goldings, BX, First Gold etc?

Not sure about using up BX - you need to treasure it, it seems to have been particularly badly hit by the heatwave so there's not much on the market this year once Harvey's etc have had their contracts filled, I've already seen folk complaining that it's hard to find across the pond.

 

[HTH1975]

1. Very pleased to say I just received some Brupak Brewer's Caramel! A colorin' we go! Thanks, as it was your note on using this, over colored malts for coloring, that guided the decision.

2. I will be trying some "Fuller's," complete with Target as kettle hop, Target as dry hop. Very curious about this, as, mirroring what you're saying, I don't know that I've seen a recipe anywhere using it. Have a lot of BX to use up as well. Actually, a lot of pellets as I just got a false bottom for the kettle and intend on getting a hopback and PC, if I can land on the PC to use. One thing at a time!

Good decision on the brewers caramel, I don’t know where the trend of using ‘colour’ malts to darken a beer comes from, but colour is/was traditionally adjusted simply with brewers caramel.

I personally love Target for bittering and have only recently started using it as my main copper bittering hop. Before that I always used Challenger, but I think it can be a bit sharp at times.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don’t know where the trend of using ‘colour’ malts to darken a beer comes from

It's very much a CAMRA thing, on the logic that Watney used adjuncts therefore any use of sugar is a heresy that represents eternal fealty to the Red Lord. Of course that ignores a century of adjunct use by the True Believers of the Cask God, but some elements of CAMRA were never that hot on facts.

I personally love Target for bittering and have only recently started using it as my main copper bittering hop. Before that I always used Challenger, but I think it can be a bit sharp at times.

I think most people would put Target as one of the harshest of bitterings but it is a very personal thing. ISTR seeing a paper that compared beers bittered with Target and something smoother - half preferred the Target bittering and half the smoother one, so you can't really win, just go for what suits you. I have a house rule to use EKG in all my beers as a terroir thing, which means I tend to end up bittering with it - it's a bit of a luxury but it is nice.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

It's very much a CAMRA thing, on the logic that Watney used adjuncts therefore any use of sugar is a heresy that represents eternal fealty to the Red Lord. Of course that ignores a century of adjunct use by the True Believers of the Cask God, but some elements of CAMRA were never that hot on facts.



I think most people would put Target as one of the harshest of bitterings but it is a very personal thing. ISTR seeing a paper that compared beers bittered with Target and something smoother - half preferred the Target bittering and half the smoother one, so you can't really win, just go for what suits you. I have a house rule to use EKG in all my beers as a terroir thing, which means I tend to end up bittering with it - it's a bit of a luxury but it is nice.

-already reconsidering my using de-bittered over the caramel in my (elsewhere) posted query on a strong bitter. Have to be honest, never been too fond of the taste of pales or bitters with choc or black malt, at least not the ones done here in the States that I've tried. I think caramel it is.

-Northern, you're making me think of something Terry Foster says in his book - doing the same, uses his aroma hops as bittering hops as well. Uses all aroma hops, for personal taste, if I recall correctly. I think his recipes may be written differently, but the personal preference for aroma everywhere is in the book. My current EKG is 8.1%.

 

[Miraculix]

I agree regarding the chocolate malt taste. I also do not like it too much and I can really taste it when is used in a beer, even if it is just a small percentage of the grist. I would definitely prefer debittered roast barley or similar (never tried caramell myself for this).

But at the end, I really do not care about colour. I care about the taste, I only care about the colour of stouts and porters (dark as the night it has to be!). In other words, I would not add anything only for colour reasons. Only for taste reasons, if it changes the colour, be it. If not it is fine as well.

 

[BarleyStanding]

That's what the internet thinks, but I'm a little bit sceptical - at the very least it (and the loosely-related 1968) don't have the typical marmalade of Fuller's actual yeast. So it could be that they've just mutated at some point over the years - or were never from Fuller's in the first place.

Brew Your Own (2013) had an interview with John Keeling in which Mr. Keeling shared some clone recipes to approximate his beer. WLP 002 was prominent in those recipes. Maybe that's why the interwebs think such. Or maybe it is their strain and as you say, there has been some "drift". I've never had the beer across the pond when it's fresh, so I couldn't say.

 

[Miraculix]

Brew Your Own (2013) had an interview with John Keeling in which Mr. Keeling shared some clone recipes to approximate his beer. WLP 002 was prominent in those recipes. Maybe that's why the interwebs think such. Or maybe it is their strain and as you say, there has been some "drift". I've never had the beer across the pond when it's fresh, so I couldn't say.

I get this marmeladish thing from the imperial yeast pub. Maybe I am confusing it with some flavour from the golden syrup that I used or maybe it is related to the fact that I pitched the yeast at 25C, quite hot. Don't know, will open the first bottle of this batch tonight, the taste tests before were samples when botteling.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

-already reconsidering my using de-bittered over the caramel in my (elsewhere) posted query on a strong bitter. Have to be honest, never been too fond of the taste of pales or bitters with choc or black malt, at least not the ones done here in the States that I've tried. I think caramel it is.

Certainly using chocolate for colour in a bitter would be weird, and 1% black seems high. Also process matters - you'll get less of the bad stuff if you cold steep rather than boil the bejeesus out of it.

-Northern, you're making me think of something Terry Foster says in his book - doing the same, uses his aroma hops as bittering hops as well. Uses all aroma hops, for personal taste, if I recall correctly. I think his recipes may be written differently, but the personal preference for aroma everywhere is in the book. My current EKG is 8.1%.

Wow - that's big for EKG. I think part of it is that there was a particular time, in the early days of the 10+% bittering hops when they got a bit rough, but the more modern high-alphas are better. But for the amount I brew, using EKG over say Admiral is costing me <£10/year, and the terroir thing is worth it to me.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Brew Your Own (2013) had an interview with John Keeling in which Mr. Keeling shared some clone recipes to approximate his beer. WLP 002 was prominent in those recipes. Maybe that's why the interwebs think such. Or maybe it is their strain and as you say, there has been some "drift". I've never had the beer across the pond when it's fresh, so I couldn't say.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that - I think the identification with Fuller's predates 2013. And I suspect it's the sort of thing he wouldn't sweat too much about - there would be little reason for him to have ever brewed with a White Labs yeast, so if someone said to him "this is a homebrew version of Fuller's" he would probably go along with it as an imperfect approximation to the actual yeast.

 

[BarleyStanding]

I wouldn't put too much weight on that - I think the identification with Fuller's predates 2013. And I suspect it's the sort of thing he wouldn't sweat too much about - there would be little reason for him to have ever brewed with a White Labs yeast, so if someone said to him "this is a homebrew version of Fuller's" he would probably go along with it as an imperfect approximation to the actual yeast.

Yeah, my interpretation is that it is a good approximation to their house yeast. I don't know much about how WL acquires their initial yeast cultures, so it could be a bootleg of the Fuller's yeast, or very close to their yeast in Keeling's estimation. Either way, I love it for my Porter and also for ESB (although its been a longggg time since I made the ESB).

 

[HTH1975]

Northern, just caught your use of "black" here as coloring agent. You mean black malt, yes? I've tried to keep any black - and I've used dark chocolate, as well, usually in tandem - to .1%, total of .2% with chocolate.

In Graham Wheeler's book, I'm seeing, in his Old Hooky for instance, a 1% usage of black malt. In lieu of obtaining caramel, it seems, Wheeler uses black for his homebrewers.

In his Pale Ale book, Terry Foster goes as high as .8%, at quick glance again. I always feared too strong a flavor contribution from the black malt at these levels. I use de-bittered, for the same reason.

In lieu of caramel (which I do actually have), how do you feel about black at up to 1%, in a strong bitter, say?

Reading this again, I recall a stout recipe where they put (half I think) the black malt in the boil, which just seems weird. Obviously it’s just to get the colour, but it goes to show that pretty much anything goes if it works. I think it was a Barclay Perkins recipe on Ron Pattinson’s blog.

I wouldn’t however use it in a bitter, personally. At a push, maybe cold steep some debittered black malt and add the liquid to the boil. Alternatively, add the black malt to the mash during vorlauf or perhaps while running off into the copper.

 

[HTH1975]

It's very much a CAMRA thing, on the logic that Watney used adjuncts therefore any use of sugar is a heresy that represents eternal fealty to the Red Lord. Of course that ignores a century of adjunct use by the True Believers of the Cask God, but some elements of CAMRA were never that hot on facts.

I think most people would put Target as one of the harshest of bitterings but it is a very personal thing. ISTR seeing a paper that compared beers bittered with Target and something smoother - half preferred the Target bittering and half the smoother one, so you can't really win, just go for what suits you. I have a house rule to use EKG in all my beers as a terroir thing, which means I tend to end up bittering with it - it's a bit of a luxury but it is nice.

Ahh, gotcha on the colour thing. Seems a strange move to limit what can/can’t be used to colour beer when caramel has been used for at least 100 years now. According to Ron Pattinson’s blog, many house beers were coloured differently depending on the target market location. Personally, I don’t bother with colouring beers - whatever colour they are is fine with me. I actually prefer lighter-coloured bitters (Boddies were right on this) than those bloody awful-looking brown bitters.

Regarding Target, i might have just got a good batch, or maybe I just perceive the bitterness differently. Up till recently I followed the same pattern as we do at work - small bittering at the start, small increase at 30 mins then shedloads at the end. I think this is the Timothy Taylor approach as our head brewer first brewed there back in t’ day.

Now I’m following the older approach of getting most of my bitterness from the first copper addition. I think it gives a more assertive bitterness that I like.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah, my interpretation is that it is a good approximation to their house yeast. I don't know much about how WL acquires their initial yeast cultures, so it could be a bootleg of the Fuller's yeast, or very close to their yeast in Keeling's estimation. Either way, I love it for my Porter and also for ESB (although its been a longggg time since I made the ESB).

So that's the thing - British brewers tend to think that 002 and 1968 rather fall short in comparison to Fuller's just because they don't have that marmalade character. It's rather typical, we get frustrated that the WL/Wyeast strains just don't seem to express character in the way that we have the luxury of getting every day from cask beer down the pub (assuming it's kept well). Interesting that the Imperial one seems to have more marmalade character, maybe they've harvested from a Fuller's source more recently.

Most of the WL and Wyeast strains seem to have come from yeast that were harvested in the 1990s by homebrewers, then passed around the homebrew community until ending up in a bank, so there's plenty of opportunity for strains to get mislabelled and mutate. It looks like both 002 and 1968 are highly related to Whitbread B, but that doesn't fit the official narrative of the Fuller yeast history. But that seems to be pretty common - for instance 1469 West Yorkshire and WLP022 Essex look like they share the same source, which doesn't fit any of the official histories either.

You might want to give that ESB another go with WLP041, see how you get on.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ahh, gotcha on the colour thing. Seems a strange move to limit what can/can’t be used to colour beer when caramel has been used for at least 100 years now. According to Ron Pattinson’s blog, many house beers were coloured differently depending on the target market location. Personally, I don’t bother with colouring beers - whatever colour they are is fine with me. I actually prefer lighter-coloured bitters (Boddies were right on this) than those bloody awful-looking brown bitters...

Now I’m following the older approach of getting most of my bitterness from the first copper addition. I think it gives a more assertive bitterness that I like.

Brown has its place, certainly in those old-school brown/old-y ales, I'm not a great fan of the crystal-heavy Thames Valley style though.

Sounds like proper Yorkshire bitterness, that! I thought I liked it full-on like that, but pure Target is just a step too far. Maybe it's a water interaction, or just personal taste - I know there's a couple of flavours I seem to supertaste.

You might want to ask the ex-TT guy about colouring, ISTR (but don't quote me) that TT switched to colouring with black in the 90s. I guess when Peter Eells took over?

 

[Derp]

My Brewlab yeast order just arrived 18 days after it was mailed. We'd assumed it had been lost in transit and they were going to send a replacement when they reopen on January 2nd, but I'll send an email and tell them not to bother.

 

[STMF]

My Brewlab yeast order just arrived 18 days after it was mailed. We'd assumed it had been lost in transit and they were going to send a replacement when they reopen on January 2nd, but I'll send an email and tell them not to bother.

How on earth did you order? I cant ot find anywhere on their site.

 

[BarleyStanding]

You might want to give that ESB another go with WLP041, see how you get on.

Haven't tried that one, I'll give it a shot.

 

[Derp]

How on earth did you order? I cant ot find anywhere on their site.

They're revamping their website and the ordering section isn't available. I emailed suzanne (at) brewlab.co.uk and she was able to help me place an order. They aren't set up to do credit card payments by email, so they emailed an invoice and I had to use Xoom (a PayPal offshoot) to pay directly to their bank. Xoom added a $5 fee, so I ended up paying $50.42 for 4 slants mailed to Texas.

Suzanne should be able to help you via email, but she won't be back in the office until January 2nd. They make slants to order, so it'll take 3 or 4 days to grow them before they can be mailed. Hopefully yours won't take almost 3 weeks to be delivered.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

How on earth did you order? I cant ot find anywhere on their site.

They're in between websites at the moment, but email works...

 

[STMF]

They're in between websites at the moment, but email works...

They're revamping their website and the ordering section isn't available. I emailed suzanne (at) brewlab.co.uk and she was able to help me place an order. [...]

Thank you both

 

[kmarkstevens]

Is 002 supposed to be the fullers strain?

Just brewed something with imperial yeast pub, which is also supposed to be the fullers strain. I definitely got some of the typical london pride flavours from this, without the cloying sweetness (due to the recipe I used). I love it.

I took a multi year break from brewing, and got back into the obsession because I wanted low octane beers. This led me to WL002 as it is probably the lowest attenuating yeast out there, and I did 20+ brews with WL002.

I decided to try Pub, and in my two split batch blind triangle testing, my palette preferred the Pub strain.

Miraclulix: Can you share your recipe that avoids the cloying sweetness of 002? I've been playing around with a number of yeasties over the past year, and my palate has morphed so I find the 002 overly sweet. Pub seems to be less sweet. I picked up WL085 blend vault strain (I think it is a mix of 002 and 007 but I'm not sure) when I did a drive by of White Labs a year plus ago. WL085 has been in heavy rotation ever since; with 002 relegated to the sidelines and very intermittent use of Pub.

 

[Miraculix]

I took a multi year break from brewing, and got back into the obsession because I wanted low octane beers. This led me to WL002 as it is probably the lowest attenuating yeast out there, and I did 20+ brews with WL002.

I decided to try Pub, and in my two split batch blind triangle testing, my palette preferred the Pub strain.

Miraclulix: Can you share your recipe that avoids the cloying sweetness of 002? I've been playing around with a number of yeasties over the past year, and my palate has morphed so I find the 002 overly sweet. Pub seems to be less sweet. I picked up WL085 blend vault strain (I think it is a mix of 002 and 007 but I'm not sure) when I did a drive by of White Labs a year plus ago. WL085 has been in heavy rotation ever since; with 002 relegated to the sidelines and very intermittent use of Pub.

Good to hear that it seems to be not only my mind playing tricks on me regarding the pub flavour

Ok recipe is roughly as follows (sitting on the airport toilet, don't have access to my notes )

I used basically two methods to get it to 75% attenuation.

First the grain bill incorporates 10% golden syrup. You can buy it everywhere in the UK, if you can't get hold of it, try a light invert sugar syrup or acacia honey.

Second, I did a hochkurz mash. First rest at 62c for 45 minutes, second one at 72c for 45 minutes, mashout rest at 76c for 20 minutes.
This mash schedule enhances fermentability.

The bill:
75% mo pale
10% spelt malt (wheat malt or wheat is fine as well)
5% thomas facett 60l Crystal
10% golden syrup ( percentage of the total fermentables, not weight)

The first three are weight percentages, the last one is not.

I hopped with magnum at 30min plus goldings cobb
and then at ten minutes and flame out only goldings cobb.

Total ibu about 30 with about 3g hops per liter in total.

I will create a thread for this beer, as it is really remarkably good.

Pub pitched at 25c and then no temperature control.

Oh, forgot the og. 1.04, fg is 1.01. I wanted huge flavour with little alcohol, mission accomplished

I actually do not remember ever nailing a recipe this much at the first shot.this will remain unchanged and brewed frequently. I ow this to @Northern_Brewer , with all of his insights on the British brewing tradition he is giving in his many posts, he basically provided the information base for this recipe.

 

[lowtones84]

You're the head brewer, and you're brewing for a drinker with your tastes, so it's up to you. Personally I wouldn't feel much compulsion to go too far from the classic recipe - pale, bit of invert/adjunct, bit less crystal, bit of torrified wheat if you're up north. You're drifting somewhere into brown/old territory with that grist - nothing wrong with that, there's some great beers in that mould, but you're drifting away from a classic bitter.

It's a fundamental mistake to try and adjust colour with "flavour" ingredients. Get the flavour right and then worry about the colour separately. If you don't have any caramel or black to hand, then you just say it's a Manchester bitter - Boddington's is effectively a pale malt/Goldings SMaSH.

Personally I'm not the biggest fan of Target, and it's largely dropped out of use here except in a couple of legacy recipes, it's down below 8% of hop acreage and falling fast. It's OK for bittering but I'd be tempted to use something else, and definitely change that late addition. Straight Goldings is great, I love a bit of Bramling Cross mixed in there but you can play around with all sorts of things in the blend.

And use the most characterful yeast you can find - WLP041 is a more interesting variation on the WLP002 theme for instance.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. The shop didn't have Maris Otter or a more characterful English yeast. They were short stocked or ahve gone downhill. Weyermann pale malt it was with a bit of Amber malt (to approximate MO) instead of brown, kept the flaked barley and got the invert to #2 to change the flavor and color a bit. Brew day went well, 10 gallons on the nose with 1.044 OG rather than 1.046. I suspect it will finish drier than the calculator is predicting anyhow.

I actually quite like Target, it's a little more aggressive and something closer to a US hop to me than many UK varieties. I like Bramling Cross a lot as well, though I tend to prefer it in milds and porters. Now our 10 gallons is split into two fermenting vessels, and we would like to dry hop one and leave the other alone for comparison. Any suggestions on a dry hop?

 

[HTH1975]

So two 5 gallon batches, only one dry hopped. Magnum bittering, then Goldings late on. If you want a decent dry-hop aroma I’d go with 30g Goldings and 20g Bramling Cross. Willamette would work really nice in this one too.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. The shop didn't have Maris Otter or a more characterful English yeast. They were short stocked or ahve gone downhill. Weyermann pale malt it was with a bit of Amber malt (to approximate MO) instead of brown, kept the flaked barley and got the invert to #2 to change the flavor and color a bit. Brew day went well, 10 gallons on the nose with 1.044 OG rather than 1.046. I suspect it will finish drier than the calculator is predicting anyhow.

No Maris Otter or Golden Promise? I think you're in the S Seattle area? It's a bit of a hoof but I know that both Brewhouse Provisions in Redmond (decently stocked but generally have 1 brand per ingredient instead of all brands but I like them and my go to HBS) and Micro Homebrew in Kenmore (have a lot of stuff but I'm kinda lukewarm on them) both have at least those two grains. Sound Homebrew will be closer to you but I've never been there.

FYI, A Maris hack is to add 1# of victory and/or biscuit to 2 row/DME/LME for a 5 gallon batch. And a Victory hack is to just toast 1# 2-row at 350 degrees for 16 minutes and let it sit in a bag for a week prior to brewing.

 

[kmarkstevens]

First the grain bill incorporates 10% golden syrup. You can buy it everywhere in the UK, if you can't get hold of it, try a light invert sugar syrup or acacia honey.

Second, I did a hochkurz mash. First rest at 62c for 45 minutes, second one at 72c for 45 minutes, mashout rest at 76c for 20 minutes.

Thanks for the reply. I had to look up "hochkurz" mash, familiar with the concept and will try this out. Please start the thread and let us know here when you do.

FYI, supermarkets this side of the pond can carry Lyle's Golden Syrup. It's also much cheaper on Amazon. I've followed guidance, and at least to my palate, honey seems to be a good substitute for both golden syrup and invert (and honey is ~80% invert). I've also had pretty good experience using either honey or making invert in the oven at about 120C and letting it go to varying shades of darkness.

 

[lowtones84]

So two 5 gallon batches, only one dry hopped. Magnum bittering, then Goldings late on. If you want a decent dry-hop aroma I’d go with 30g Goldings and 20g Bramling Cross. Willamette would work really nice in this one too.

Interesting take on the mix of goldings and bramling cross dry hop, could certainly see that working. This beer is already brewed and the bittering was Target, flameout was a bit of Target and a lot of EKG.

No Maris Otter or Golden Promise? I think you're in the S Seattle area? It's a bit of a hoof but I know that both Brewhouse Provisions in Redmond (decently stocked but generally have 1 brand per ingredient instead of all brands but I like them and my go to HBS) and Micro Homebrew in Kenmore (have a lot of stuff but I'm kinda lukewarm on them) both have at least those two grains. Sound Homebrew will be closer to you but I've never been there.

FYI, A Maris hack is to add 1# of victory and/or biscuit to 2 row/DME/LME for a 5 gallon batch. And a Victory hack is to just toast 1# 2-row at 350 degrees for 16 minutes and let it sit in a bag for a week prior to brewing.

North Jersey, but thanks for the effort anyhow! I know those hacks but the store didn't have biscuit either. I probably won't be going back to that shop unless they just had a supply issue or something. I also didn't have the time to toast any malt myself, so a bit of English amber malt in with the Weyermann pale was the best I could do in this instance.

 

[HTH1975]

Interesting take on the mix of goldings and bramling cross dry hop, could certainly see that working. This beer is already brewed and the bittering was Target, flameout was a bit of Target and a lot of EKG.

Nice choice - I like Target for bittering. BX goes with anything more floral to give balance. Theakstons use a mix of Fuggles, Goldings, Bramling Cross nd potentiality two others if you believe their ‘5 hops’ claim for their Best Bitter.

 

[Miraculix]

I took a multi year break from brewing, and got back into the obsession because I wanted low octane beers. This led me to WL002 as it is probably the lowest attenuating yeast out there, and I did 20+ brews with WL002.

I decided to try Pub, and in my two split batch blind triangle testing, my palette preferred the Pub strain.

Miraclulix: Can you share your recipe that avoids the cloying sweetness of 002? I've been playing around with a number of yeasties over the past year, and my palate has morphed so I find the 002 overly sweet. Pub seems to be less sweet. I picked up WL085 blend vault strain (I think it is a mix of 002 and 007 but I'm not sure) when I did a drive by of White Labs a year plus ago. WL085 has been in heavy rotation ever since; with 002 relegated to the sidelines and very intermittent use of Pub.

Just to follow up on this one, here is the precise recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/miraculix-best-classic-english-ale.661073/

Let me know what you think about it!

 

[kmarkstevens]

Thanks for that! Looks tasty and I will have to try it, especially as I also have First Gold in the freezer.

 

[thehaze]

I can also confirm that Imperial A09 Pub does exhibit marmalade esters. I've liked it in a less than traditional bitter made with MO + 6% mix of Light and Dark Crystal and with a combination of 65% US Chinook and 35% Mosaic, no dry hopping. The beer came out orangey, marmaladey, jammy, soft mouthfeel, smooth bitterness. It striked like one of the strains that can easily allow you to brew a 5-6% bitter with 60-100 IBUs.

 

[lowtones84]

Our bitter/perhaps old ale from a few posts ago has turned out quite well. A bit more aggressively bitter than expected, but very tasty. The homemade invert really does something.

I think the higher bitterness is partially because it was the first time I had ever done a 10 gallon batch and the boil took longer than expected. It was also a bigger whirlpool addition than I've used in a bit. I actually like a Target+EKG combination late, but it can be easy to overplay the hand. Target adds something to that EKG or Fuggles classic combo that is very nice, I'll just have to watch the bitterness a bit. Looking to play with Jester soon.

 

[bwible]

Ever tried First Gold? Its one of my favorite hops for any English ale. Very authentic English flavor and its good for all stages.

 

[bwible]

I’ve been hoping to get a WLP026 out of White Lab’s vault. Supposed to be Marston’s. I placed an order probably 2 years ago. Still only 131 orders until they ship!

 

[lowtones84]

Ever tried First Gold? Its one of my favorite hops for any English ale. Very authentic English flavor and its good for all stages.

I have 2 oz. around that I will probably try in a more traditional bitter soon. We were actually considering dry hopping one 5 gallon carboy with First Gold and the other with EKG, but we ended up just dry hopping one with EKG just to see the difference between dry hopped and not on the exact same beer.

 

[bwible]

I have 2 oz. around that I will probably try in a more traditional bitter soon. We were actually considering dry hopping one 5 gallon carboy with First Gold and the other with EKG, but we ended up just dry hopping one with EKG just to see the difference between dry hopped and not on the exact same beer.

I have dry hopped with First Gold. Actually hopped in the keg. I used 1/2 oz for a 3 gallon keg. Use a teaball or they make screened cannisters now that you can put in your keg use them for hops, oak chips, fruit peel or whatever you want to add to the keg. Buy them on ebay. First Gold is just a great hop.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah, WLP026 is an interesting yeast, as a POF- saison type. Not going to come out as a seasonal either, at least not this year. You could tell Brewlab you were looking to clone Pedigree, they could come up with something....

 

[bwible]

Yeah, WLP026 is an interesting yeast, as a POF- saison type. Not going to come out as a seasonal either, at least not this year. You could tell Brewlab you were looking to clone Pedigree, they could come up with something....

Well thanks for that info. I don’t enjoy Phenols and clovey and Belgian-y things. (I spend good money on cleaner and sanitizer for a reason. ) Outside of a classic Hefeweizen, and I like those with more banana than clove. I never had Pedigree but I knew it was a classic bitter. So maybe I’m not after wlp026.