English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Puddlethumper]

Nice looking glass of beer! The color looks right for the bitters I've been making lately. I agree that if you can bring in some Maris Otter or Halcyon you should get a pretty authentic base going.

You didn't mention the ABV you are looking for. Ordinary bitters will want the IBU's that EKG, Northern Brewer, etc. can bring to to table. But if you've going for a higher ABV you might want to consider Challenger for bittering followed by EKG for flavor/aroma.

 

[unionrdr]

The ESB kit came out to 6.93% by Cooper's formula (OG-FG) / 7.46 + .5). My efficiency with the grains given & dunk sparge were through the roof! But 5-6% generally.

 

[lhommedieu]

Just wanted to take a minute and post an update to this thread.

I brewed a batch of ESB following the recipe Ihommedieu suggested with a couple of minor changes to make it more authentic to recipes I suspect we would find in England/Wales. I dropped the MO to 10.5 lbs. and cut the medium crystal to 4 oz. In their place I added a pound of invert sugar #2 with 10 minutes left in the boil. The OG went through the roof at 1.068! Next time I'll cut way back on the MO. (I really do need to take the time to figure my brewhouse efficiency. )

Today I racked it over to secondary and SG was at 1.013 and the beer in the sample jar was delicious. I plan to let this one condition for a couple of weeks before kegging. But it's going to try my patience to wait on this one.

lol - Good luck on that patience thing...

I brewed an ESB in early July and it's been in the keg for about two weeks. I plan to tap it August 23rd for a BBQ party, and I'll post the results.

My earlier ales were very sweet and full-bodied but I have successfully made them a bit drier to my taste by keeping my mash temperature @ 149 and making sure that I have an adequate amount of yeast to pitch. I always stir plate my yeast and have gotten into the habit of oxygenating the wort before pitching.

I have read that adding sugar to the wort just after the boil can increase attenuation but so far I have not needed to add it; as an experiment though, I think that the next time that I brew an ESB I may add 8 oz of cane sugar or invert sugar and see what results.

Good luck on your ESB and let us know how it turned out.

 

[Puddlethumper]

The ESB kit came out to 6.93% by Cooper's formula (OG-FG) / 7.46 + .5). My efficiency with the grains given & dunk sparge were through the roof! But 5-6% generally.

Was it pretty malty? Did you feel the Northern Brewer brought enough bitterness to the party?

 

[Puddlethumper]

lol - Good luck on that patience thing...

I brewed an ESB in early July and it's been in the keg for about two weeks. I plan to tap it August 23rd for a BBQ party, and I'll post the results.

My earlier ales were very sweet and full-bodied but I have successfully made them a bit drier to my taste by keeping my mash temperature @ 149 and making sure that I have an adequate amount of yeast to pitch. I always stir plate my yeast and have gotten into the habit of oxygenating the wort before pitching.

I have read that adding sugar to the wort just after the boil can increase attenuation but so far I have not needed to add it; as an experiment though, I think that the next time that I brew an ESB I may add 8 oz of cane sugar or invert sugar and see what results.

Good luck on your ESB and let us know how it turned out.

We're about on the same page and same time frame with these brews. I'm probably a week or so behind you and mine will spend the next 10-14 days in secondary before I keg it. Once my beers get kegged they go directly to the keezer and get cold for a week or two prior to serving.

Have you used invert sugar before? I was surprised at how high the OG ended up on this batch. I'm convinced that sugar addition threw my BrewTarget software a curve. It did attenuate very well. But will definitely need to make some adjustments to the grain bill before trying this recipe again.

Cheers!

 

[unionrdr]

Was it pretty malty? Did you feel the Northern Brewer brought enough bitterness to the party?

It has a great balance between malty & hop bittering. The hop flavors were just enough to add some complexity to it. I'll definitely brew it again!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I just tapped a Pale Mild I did. First time putting my own beer on "cask" via polypins (and poured via gravity). I'm loving the beer. And for you folks who want to do cask at home, but like me, you won't have the ability to mow through a whole batch before it goes stale without your wife divorcing you for being an alcoholic, check out the polypin route. I'm amazed how easy it is and how well it works. About 5.2 gallons into the fermenter, about 4.7 gallons after loss to yeast cake primed to about 1.2 volumes into 5 separate one gallon Cubitainers (Northern Brewer sells them, I bought mine from US Plastics) leaving just a little headspace in each one, and then compressed down to purge the oxygen and sealed up, allowed to balloon up fully, vented to keep em from bursting, let em settle for a bit, and pour. I'm not sure how long the shelf life will be, but given than I killed the first pin in 2 days (easy with a 2.9% Mild), I'm not too worried about the shelf life. They're all pretty much fully ballooned at this point. I tapped the first one after 5 days. I'm gonna give it another week or so before tapping the others.

Recipe for the Pale Mild I did:


5 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.6 %
8.0 oz Biscuit (Dingemans) (22.5 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
8.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
2.0 oz Pale Chocolate (Thomas Fawcett) (215.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.0 %
0.50 oz Challenger [8.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 20.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 6 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.036 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.0 %
Bitterness: 20.5 IBUs
Est Color: 9.6 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.035 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 2.9 %
Calories: 116.3 kcal/12oz

Mashed at 158 and fermented at 68, with no yeast starter.

Out of one polypin, I got 6 full Imperial pints of clear beer, and about a half pint of yeasty dregs at the end.

Given that I mostly brew English beers, and I love cask beer, I may never end up switching to kegs. Hah.

 

[Piratwolf]

Northern brewer used to have a kit for AK47 Pale Mild. One of my favorite beers, hands down. I like to run off about 20% of the boiling sort and reduce it by half or more in another pot, then add it back. Really develops the flavor & a bit of mouthfeel!


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[Qhrumphf]

Northern brewer used to have a kit for AK47 Pale Mild. One of my favorite beers, hands down. I like to run off about 20% of the boiling sort and reduce it by half or more in another pot, then add it back. Really develops the flavor & a bit of mouthfeel!


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I'd certainly heard others rant and rave about that kit. Never tried it myself.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that my LHBS misstated the Pale Chocolate. It's got the right character, but I'm guessing it's a different maltster than TF with a darker color, as every beer I've used it in has been darker than expected, so projected SRM is off. I've probably give this a 12-14, on the pale end of the style range, vs 20-22 for my normal Dark Mild (which is estimated closer to 18).

 

[Piratwolf]

I'd certainly heard others rant and rave about that kit. Never tried it myself.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that my LHBS misstated the Pale Chocolate. It's got the right character, but I'm guessing it's a different maltster than TF with a darker color, as every beer I've used it in has been darker than expected, so projected SRM is off. I've probably give this a 12-14, on the pale end of the style range, vs 20-22 for my normal Dark Mild (which is estimated closer to 18).

You make good points, as usual. My version was closer to 8 SRM the first time (non-reduction version). I want to say it was Crisp but that's just a guess. I think it was in the 200s LV


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[lowtones84]

Well, I've had a couple of my first Special Bitter recipe from a few pages back. Could use a bit more hop bitterness, but that might be because I never got a particularly vigorous boil as I did a larger batch size than usual. I would also cut back the amount of invert syrup next time, not because I don't enjoy the taste, but because I would prefer a slightly maltier beer. Also got the beginnings of some fruity esters from the S-04, but nothing crazy. Still a nice beer, just some things to improve on next time It's also only been in the bottle for four weeks, so perhaps a couple more weeks will treat it well.

Is WLP002 more forgiving of slightly higher temperatures? Less? About the same? I'm limited to a swamp cooler with ice bottles and a fan at the moment, but I'd like to try 002.

 

[passedpawn]

Orfy (ex mod here) posted a clone of Wychwood Hobgoblin that I've made several times. It's so danged tasty. I make it every fall. Wish I could find a link, but it seems to have disappeared.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Is WLP002 more forgiving of slightly higher temperatures? Less? About the same? I'm limited to a swamp cooler with ice bottles and a fan at the moment, but I'd like to try 002.

Thanks for the update on this one. I have kept a copy of your recipe as a future "possible" and appreciate the comments. It still sounds to me like a good recipe but may only need some tweaking.

I haven't used 002 much but have used S-04 a lot and it has been a pretty steady performer. I prefer WLP013 London Ale for bitters and make a point to wash it and keep some on hand at all times. Have also used their Burton Ale yeast. Both have performed pretty well for me in the mid - to - upper 60's.

 

[lhommedieu]

,,,

Have you used invert sugar before? I was surprised at how high the OG ended up on this batch. I'm convinced that sugar addition threw my BrewTarget software a curve. It did attenuate very well. But will definitely need to make some adjustments to the grain bill before trying this recipe again.

Cheers!

I've never used sugar before. I think that what I'll do is to compare a glass of this batch with a glass of Fuller's (my go-to beer). When I'm drinking my own beers I enjoy them for what they are but I'd like to compare the latest one to a benchmark (of sorts).

Beersmith says that the addition of 4 oz of sugar will bump up my OG by .002 points (from 1.053 to 1.055) and the ABV by .3% to 5.3. That's not a drastic change and I think it's worth trying out. I am just wondering, though, wouldn't I get the same results by merely aiming for a higher OG?

It is interesting to note that a sample of the beer that I just kegged tasted pretty dry. This is due, I think, to my ability to control mash temperature and pitch a sufficient quantity of yeast. If the addition of a small amount of sugar does not make an appreciable difference then I'll probably go back to my original, non-sugar, recipe.

One question: what is a reasonable amount of hops to add to a secondary fermenter, if I choose to dry-hop in the future?

 

[dyqik]

Beersmith says that the addition of 4 oz of sugar will bump up my OG by .002 points (from 1.053 to 1.055) and the ABV by .3% to 5.3. That's not a drastic change and I think it's worth trying out. I am just wondering, though, wouldn't I get the same results by merely aiming for a higher OG?

It is interesting to note that a sample of the beer that I just kegged tasted pretty dry. This is due, I think, to my ability to control mash temperature and pitch a sufficient quantity of yeast. If the addition of a small amount of sugar does not make an appreciable difference then I'll probably go back to my original, non-sugar, recipe.

One question: what is a reasonable amount of hops to add to a secondary fermenter, if I choose to dry-hop in the future?

Sugar fully attenuates and goes into the boil at 100% mash efficiency, so it raises the OG more than the equivalent mass of malt, and slightly lowers the FG (the alcohol from the sugar has an SG slightly lower than 1.000), while adding malt will raise both the OG and the FG. I think the extra alcohol from the sugar makes the remaining unfermentables from the malt seem drier. Half a lb of sugar in a 5 gallon batch is probably a good starting point for taste testing, but you could go with a whole lb. 4 oz probably would be lost. My favorite bitter recipe (Harvey's Sussex, recipe upthread or in the database) uses 8 oz of flaked corn rather than sugar for drying out the beer a little.

For dry hopping, it depends on the beer and your taste buds - 0.5 oz in a 5 gallon batch is enough to add the aroma back that you might have lost from your late addition hops, 1 oz of Goldings seems to be enough for me in a Best Bitter to give a definite dry hopped character. 2oz is still reasonable for an English style IPA or BB/ESB.

 

[lhommedieu]

Sugar fully attenuates and goes into the boil at 100% mash efficiency, so it raises the OG more than the equivalent mass of malt, and slightly lowers the FG (the alcohol from the sugar has an SG slightly lower than 1.000), while adding malt will raise both the OG and the FG. I think the extra alcohol from the sugar makes the remaining unfermentables from the malt seem drier. Half a lb of sugar in a 5 gallon batch is probably a good starting point for taste testing, but you could go with a whole lb. 4 oz probably would be lost. My favorite bitter recipe (Harvey's Sussex, recipe upthread or in the database) uses 8 oz of flaked corn rather than sugar for drying out the beer a little.

For dry hopping, it depends on the beer and your taste buds - 0.5 oz in a 5 gallon batch is enough to add the aroma back that you might have lost from your late addition hops, 1 oz of Goldings seems to be enough for me in a Best Bitter to give a definite dry hopped character. 2oz is still reasonable for an English style IPA or BB/ESB.

Thanks for your input. I just increased the amount of sugar to 8 oz. and you are correct - while OG and ABV go up, FG goes down. I did notice that I had to adjust my hop addition at 60 minutes to balance the IBU/SG ratio.

 

[JKaranka]

Invert sugar does not only contribute alcohol. Although it dries the finish you also get honey and pear notes from invert #2 and dark fruit and raisin notes from inverts #3 & #4.

 

[balrog]

Orfy (ex mod here) posted a clone of Wychwood Hobgoblin that I've made several times. It's so danged tasty. I make it every fall. Wish I could find a link, but it seems to have disappeared.

Is this what you mean?

 

[passedpawn]

Is this what you mean?

Yes, although I made the all-grain version of it that is on this site somewhere. There is a Hobgoblin II recipe here as well (I think that's what I made). I think at one time the forum somehow lost his original recipe and post, and the II version was the replacement.

 

[balrog]

Yes, although I made the all-grain version of it that is on this site somewhere. There is a Hobgoblin II recipe here as well (I think that's what I made). I think at one time the forum somehow lost his original recipe and post, and the II version was the replacement.

My Google-fu was weak. I ended up finding the restart and he posted on a site that Chrome complained was malware, but I did find:
Hob Goblin II, 23L, 4.8kg Marris Otter, .25kg Caramel/Crystal 60, 0.20kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine, 0.15kg Chocolate Malt, 15gm Styrian Goldings 5% 60m FWH, 15gm Fuggles 4.5% 60m, 15 gm Sytrian Goldings 5% 30m, 15gm Fuggles 4.5% 30m, 15 gm Fuggles 4.5% 5m aroma hop-steep, 15gm Styrian Golding 5% 5m aroma hop-steep, Nottingham yeast

Sorry for lousy formatting but does this look familiar?

 

[passedpawn]

My Google-fu was weak. I ended up finding the restart and he posted on a site that Chrome complained was malware, but I did find:
Hob Goblin II, 23L, 4.8kg Marris Otter, .25kg Caramel/Crystal 60, 0.20kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine, 0.15kg Chocolate Malt, 15gm Styrian Goldings 5% 60m FWH, 15gm Fuggles 4.5% 60m, 15 gm Sytrian Goldings 5% 30m, 15gm Fuggles 4.5% 30m, 15 gm Fuggles 4.5% 5m aroma hop-steep, 15gm Styrian Golding 5% 5m aroma hop-steep, Nottingham yeast

Sorry for lousy formatting but does this look familiar?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f22/hob-goblin-threads-missing-146613/

 

[passedpawn]

My notes:

 

[Puddlethumper]

Sugar fully attenuates and goes into the boil at 100% mash efficiency, so it raises the OG more than the equivalent mass of malt, and slightly lowers the FG (the alcohol from the sugar has an SG slightly lower than 1.000), while adding malt will raise both the OG and the FG.

That is excellent information and it matches up almost exactly with what I observed during this first attempt at using invert sugar. It would appear that if invert is to be added to the mash the base malt should be reduced by roughly double. (Offset 1/2 lb. invert with 1 lb. base malt) Do you agree? Or am I oversimplifying this?

And I do intend, at least for the time being, to continue working with the invert for my English bitters. I loved the flavor of the beer in the sample jar and, assuming that flavor profile comes out of the tap in a few weeks, I'm convinced the invert adds a flavor element that cannot be reproduced without it. My issue now will be trying to figure out how much to use in each recipe.

A question for those familiar with the beers of Great Britain: What about using invert in other traditional beers? Would it be appropriate in an Irish red or a porter?

Cheers!

 

[Hanglow]

It's been used (in the past at least) in porters, imperial stouts to light bitters and milds

The most you'll see is 15-20% by weight of ingredients

I've used it in an export stout and stong ale before and it works great. I don't really like chewy beers much so if I want a strong beer then it helps keep it a bit more digestible and as you say adds flavours that are hard to replicate with the various flavoured malts you get

I'm going to try an old AK recipe (which is essentially the grandfather of the modern bitter) that uses about 16% sugar, so it'll be interesting to see if I can make it without it getting too watery as it's quite a small beer

 

[unionrdr]

Where are you fellas getting this inverted sugar? what's it look like? I'm intrigued!...Demerara sugar adds a little complexity in my pm IPA/APA's. Might be good to add a pound to the ESB? Or in your considered opinions, would the inverted be better?

 

[balrog]

Where are you fellas getting this inverted sugar? what's it look like? I'm intrigued!...Demerara sugar adds a little complexity in my pm IPA/APA's. Might be good to add a pound to the ESB? Or in your considered opinions, would the inverted be better?

<I had to Google it>
Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding water and roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 milliliters per kilogram) may also be used.

The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes to get to a temperature of 114 °C (237 °F),[3] and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.

 

[unionrdr]

Hm. How to heat to 237F with boiling point being 212F? Use a pressure cooker? ** Was looking on Midwest's site for it out of curiosity. Didn't stop to think that Belgian candi syrup is inverted sugar. Doh! One review said the Simplicity brand was better than home cooked invert since they don't use acids in making it. He said the stove top stuff doesn't ferment as well & doesn't taste as good??

 

[balrog]

sugar water (candy makers can attest) will go *FAR* above 212

As for stove-top kind, I've never done it, or used candi-sugar, but it's a wild read on using acetic acid to catalyze the succrose to fructose-glucose conversion, then use baking soda to counter the acid. That's wild because I've made candy before and added baking soda to boiling sugar. Not pretty. It's worse than a brew kettle full of wort boil over, where the wort is thick, lava-like, 350° skin-peeling $hit that...well, let's just say it was sub-optimal.

 

[unionrdr]

Might try it on an ESB recipe in the near future. But a watermelon hefeweizen is calling my name & will be ordered tomorrow morning. Gunna use sugar baby watermelon juice.

 

[balrog]

I'm still trying to find the perfect beer for my palate, and it's somewhere between Oktoberfest, English Bitter and I don't know what. So that's why I jumped into this English Bitter thread.

As for watermelon, and hefe-flavors of banana and clove, all in the same glass? My taste buds are not seeing that as something desirable. Crazier things have happened though (witness brown sugar bacon candy for instance).