English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[lhommedieu]

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I served the beer at a party recently and it was a hit. I liked it a lot but I think in the future I'll use Target as the bittering hops, EKG for aroma.

Dryness was where I wanted it, so I don't think I'll use sugar the next time. Getting my bitter to where I want it has been a two year process. Basically I've run the gamut from making things complex to simplifying them. I've learned that with a simple recipe and a good process you can make a decent beer.

Round 2 for my decoction lager attempts. Partial conversion at the very end so I figured it should convert more during the sparge. My gravity readings are looking good so I figure this one might work out.

 

[lowtones84]

Yeah, I think bitters are supposed to be simple beers. Just meant to sip and enjoy, not to knock your socks off. Just my impression anyhow, so a simple beer calls for a simple recipe.

I just bottled my ordinary bitter. Came out much darker than expected, that Crisp Crystal 60 really does its work! It was also a 90 min boil though. Looked like a brown ale in the fermenter, and still darker than expected going through the siphon tube. We'll see how it looks in the glass. I'm sure it will be delicious either way

 

[Qhrumphf]

Tapped the first polypin of the Summer Ale I posted a number of pages back. Next time I'll cut the bittering (lower it 10 IBUs or so), but I dig it. It's very much the balance of an American Pale (on the low gravity side), but with English ingredients.

 

[Hackwood]

My favorite beer to drink has to be "Brian's Best Bitter" from BeerSmith. Tried it only because my name is also Brian and thought, "It has to be brewed"...... Love it!

 

[Puddlethumper]

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I served the beer at a party recently and it was a hit. I liked it a lot but I think in the future I'll use Target as the bittering hops, EKG for aroma.

I think you're on the right track with this recipe. The beer has been on tap for a week or so now and everyone who has tasted it likes it. But do you think a change to Target for bittering would make that much difference?

Dryness was where I wanted it, so I don't think I'll use sugar the next time.

If I'm understanding it correctly, wouldn't the use of sugar tend to dry it out more?

I enjoy this beer and will probably brew it again. I would like to see what happens when the IBU's are kicked up a notch so will increase the Challenger to a full ounce. That should yield something like 43 IBU. If I use invert I'll cut it back to a half pound or less and still reduce the MO by a full pound. It looks like I'm getting close to 80% efficiency so will need to get the base malt down to keep the OG and ABV in line.

 

[lhommedieu]

I think you're on the right track with this recipe. The beer has been on tap for a week or so now and everyone who has tasted it likes it. But do you think a change to Target for bittering would make that much difference?

If I'm understanding it correctly, wouldn't the use of sugar tend to dry it out more?

I enjoy this beer and will probably brew it again. I would like to see what happens when the IBU's are kicked up a notch so will increase the Challenger to a full ounce. That should yield something like 43 IBU. If I use invert I'll cut it back to a half pound or less and still reduce the MO by a full pound. It looks like I'm getting close to 80% efficiency so will need to get the base malt down to keep the OG and ABV in line.

My guests also enjoyed the beer and are still talking about it, lol. The funny thing is that I made a miscalculation on brew day, and it was slightly under-hopped.

Re. the substitution of Target for EKG: I'll admit that I haven't done the research necessary to figure out if it will make a difference. My take on EKG is that it's an excellent flavor and aroma hops - but it's subtle (in a good way). Perhaps a more assertive bittering hops is in order, and so I'm thinking that either Target or Challenger would fit the bill. Keep in mind, also that my personal preference is to keep the total IBU to about 32. That to me is a good balance of IBU to Malt for this style. A little higher isn't out of the range of the style, but I just like it a little lower.

Yes - adding sugar would dry it out more - but I'm happy with the level of dryness that I seem to be producing with my process.

See attached for the pilsner that I made last week - about 5 days into primary fermentation.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Re. the substitution of Target for EKG: I'll admit that I haven't done the research necessary to figure out if it will make a difference. My take on EKG is that it's an excellent flavor and aroma hops - but it's subtle (in a good way). Perhaps a more assertive bittering hops is in order, and so I'm thinking that either Target or Challenger would fit the bill.

I used the Challenger per your recipe and was very satisfied with the flavor profile of the beer. I think the malt bill is spot on. Perhaps our tastes don't differ all that much because it seems we are both looking for just a little more hop presence without a great increase in bitterness. I haven't had any personal experience with Target to compare it to Challenger, but all of Target's acids and oils are significantly higher than Challenger. At least on paper it seems it would bring more to the party than either Challenger or Northdown.

See attached for the pilsner that I made last week - about 5 days into primary fermentation.

Looking good!

 

[unionrdr]

I'm gonna have to get another Morebeer ESB E/SG kit. The color & flavor are spot on, & the flavor balance between malt & hops is just too good. At about two months past bottling, it's balance is still great & it has a bit of crispness on the back. Oh yeah...

 

[Puddlethumper]

I'm gonna have to get another Morebeer ESB E/SG kit. The color & flavor are spot on, & the flavor balance between malt & hops is just too good. At about two months past bottling, it's balance is still great & it has a bit of crispness on the back. Oh yeah...

Do you remember the recipe?

 

[unionrdr]

Here's what I got on the brew sheet Morebeer gives with the kit;
8oz crystal 40L
8oz honey malt
4oz special roast
7lbs ultra light LME
1oz northern brewer @ 60 minutes
1oz east kent golding @ 10 minutes
1oz east kent golding @ 5 minutes
1/2 Whirlfloc tablet last 5 minutes of boil
Re-hydrated Safale S-04
Steeped grains @ 160F for 30 minutes after crushing in my Barley Crusher grain mill @ .039". Dunk sparged in 2.5 gallons spring water @ 170F.Added 2.07 pounds of the LME to the boil. Hop addition times as stated. Re-hydrated S-04 in 400mL spring water @ 89.3F 30 minutes.OG 1.060 down to FG 1.012 in 10 days flat!Ferment temp got to 73.4 maximum.
Est OG- 1.045-1.049
Suggested ferment temperature-68F
Est SRM-11
Est IBU-39-42

Thought I had a better pic. Beer is clearer than pictured here. Would've had better head if I hadn't used a whole Whirlfloc tablet...

 

[Puddlethumper]

Just finished brewing another batch of the ordinary bitters that has been a hit around here. Added a little twist with 3/4 oz. Bramling Cross at flameout for a 30 minute steep. The recipe is pretty simple and goes as follows:

8.75 lb. Maris Otter (Crisp)
5 oz. Medium British Crystal (OK to sub Crystal 60/80)
1 oz. Black Patent

90 min. single infusion mash @ 151F
15 min. batch sparge @ 165F
7.0 gal. pre-boil volume

75 min. boil
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 75 min.
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 10 min.
3/4 oz. Bramling Cross @ flameout for 30 min. steep

S-04, Burton Ale or London Ale yeast (I used London Ale)

Ferment 2 wks @ 68-70F

This recipe has become a go-to for ordinary bitters around here. The only thing I did different with this batch was the addition of the Bramling Cross hops. I think the black currant note will fit very nicely with the flavors in this beer.

Cheers!

 

[lowtones84]

Sounds nice! I'm guessing the 1 oz. black patent is just for a little color?

Brewing my first English Brown Porter for the fall/winter months today. If anyone has any input, too bad because I'm starting to heat water very soon! Although, I do have an oz. of Bramling Cross around if anyone wants to convince me to use it instead of Fuggles...

*FOUR GALLON BATCH* Est OG: 1.056 (Just above BJCP range. Oh well.) Est IBU: 31

6 lb. Crisp Maris Otter
10 oz. UK Brown malt (Crisp)
10 oz. UK Crystal 60 (Crisp)
6 oz. UK Chocolate malt (Crisp)
8 oz. Flaked Barley

Single infusion Mash @ 154, Mash out @ 165-170

.35 oz. Target @ 60 (it's what I have left )
.25 oz. Fuggles @ 60 (to make up a bit)
.5 oz. Fuggles @ 10

WLP 002

I can't change too much at this point, but what do you guys think?

 

[JKaranka]

Porter looks good. I made something similar (including strength) but without crystal and with two types of sugar. Had half a pound each of brown and chocolate malt.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Sounds nice! I'm guessing the 1 oz. black patent is just for a little color?

Brewing my first English Brown Porter for the fall/winter months today. If anyone has any input, too bad because I'm starting to heat water very soon! Although, I do have an oz. of Bramling Cross around if anyone wants to convince me to use it instead of Fuggles...

Porter looks great!

Yes re: the black patent. Just gives it the color I think is right for this style.

And re: the Bramling Cross, I've only used it as a late addition at 1/2 ounce or so to bring some black currant notes to the party. I got started using it when I came across a recipe for a porter in a brewing book published in the UK. Hooked on it now for either porters or bitters. I can't think of another style that it would fit though.

Hope your porter turns out great!

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

So where does one get really good descriptions of the bittering, flavoring, aroma-ing descriptions for all these hops? You say currant for Bramling Cross while the online descriptions seem to include that and "spicey" which kinda turns me off.

 

[nutty_gnome]

My favorite beer to drink has to be "Brian's Best Bitter" from BeerSmith. Tried it only because my name is also Brian and thought, "It has to be brewed"...... Love it!

Question: Do you use the Ultra hops as listed in BeerSmith?

 

[JKaranka]

Bramling Cross has some blackcurrant similar to Brewers' Gold. Spice is good, like Saaz and Fuggles. So many people rate Bramling X highly that you can chuck some late without a worry.

 

[lowtones84]

Well, no Bramling Cross this time, but it just so happens that I picked up enough specialty grain to brew another porter soon

This was one of my smoothest brew days yet. Sitting at 60F right now with the yeast pitched, waiting for it to slowly rise in my swamp cooler before hitting it with some more ice bottles and a fan. Since I was drinking while brewing, 8 oz. of home made invert may or may not have made its way into the boil

 

[Puddlethumper]

So where does one get really good descriptions of the bittering, flavoring, aroma-ing descriptions for all these hops? You say currant for Bramling Cross while the online descriptions seem to include that and "spicey" which kinda turns me off.

I've run across a couple of charts that have been somewhat helpful. Although the essential acids and oils are scientifically based, the descriptions of the flavors/aromas are, as you have noticed, pretty subjective. And much depends on how much a person uses and when it is introduced to the boil. I suspect Bramling Cross is an example of this.

With alpha acids in the 5-7% range Bramling Cross is described in the charts as "dual purpose but mainly bittering". I'll wager that this is where it gets the description as "spicy". I know from experience that when used in lower amounts and at the end of the boil the bittering and spiciness doesn't come through. Instead it imparts a very pleasing black currant note. I find this flavor quite agreeable in porters and bitters.

This is part of what makes this hobby so challenging and interesting. After many batches brewed and with the help of books and charts and personal experience I think I'm getting a handle on a few varieties of hops. Only a hundred or so varieties left to go!

Cheers!

 

[lhommedieu]

Re. Black patent malt: Gordon Strong suggests that you can add it at the end of the mash (i.e. just before the sparge) if you want to add color without the flavor - but at your percentages I don't think it really makes a difference.

I've done some cursory research using the same kinds of hops lists and descriptions that you reference above, as well as dipping into "For the Love of Hops," that is available on Kindle.

Keeping in mind that there are other factors that contribute to flavor and the perception of bitterness, notably the kind of yeast used, I've decided to stick to Wyeast 1968 (London Ale) yeast for the time being as I like the kinds of fruity esters that it produces. So, with Marris Otter, Crystal 60, and Wyeast 1968 as the backbone for an English Bitter, I am going to propose for myself the following experiment with respect to some bittering/flavor/aroma characteristics: That is to say that the first hop mentioned will be added at first boil and at 60 minutes (I do 90 minute boils btw), and the second hop mentioned towards the end of the boil and at flame-out.

EKG/EKG
Fuggle/EKG
Challenger/EKG
Target/EKG

I believe that the changes in bittering hops represents a movement from relatively lower Alpha to higher Alpha, and I am interested in "testing" the results.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I am going to propose for myself the following experiment with respect to some bittering/flavor/aroma characteristics: That is to say that the first hop mentioned will be added at first boil and at 60 minutes (I do 90 minute boils btw), and the second hop mentioned towards the end of the boil and at flame-out.

EKG/EKG
Fuggle/EKG
Challenger/EKG
Target/EKG

I believe that the changes in bittering hops represents a movement from relatively lower Alpha to higher Alpha, and I am interested in "testing" the results.

I like the simplification and elimination of variables. It would be interesting to have a bottle of each to do a side-by-side comparison. If you go ahead with it please post your findings.

You've actually gotten me thinking about digging out my old Mr Beer to make a few small test batches.

 

[lhommedieu]

Will do. I could have added some other hops, Northdown and Northern Brewer, for example, but these four will suffice as a first round.

I think that London 1968 is a good choice with Bramling Cross.

I am going to have to bite the bullet and get another chest freezer for fermenting lagers, and use the current one for ales. I'm fortunate to have an unfinished cellar with a storm door, so as soon as the temperatures start dropping here I can lager in the cellar. My cellar typically drops down to around freezing in the winter (and if goes much lower, I can adjust it with a space heater and thermostat) and rarely gets above 65F in the summer unless we have some really hot days.

 

[lowtones84]

I tasted my ordinary bitter from a couple pages back (the one that I almost put flaked oats in...but didn't ) and it's already really good. After 9 days of primary and about 12 in the bottle it's already very nice. Coming in at 3.5% it isn't bursting with flavor, but it has more than enough malt flavor and a little hop bitterness to keep me interested. I'm imagining it will only be better in a couple of weeks.

Also, I'm sold on WLP002

 

[Puddlethumper]

Also, I'm sold on WLP002

Congrats on the success with your bitters. That recipe looks good.

I'm going to have to invest in some 002 again. Have several harvested slurries of 004 and 013 on hand so I've been trying to use them when I can. Ahh, so many beers to brew and so little time .....

 

[EvilBrewing]

Double Diamond is a MUST DO English Bitter. I got the recipe from my Clonebrews book.
The highest compliment of that batch was from a friend of mine from Britain who said it brought him back home with every sip.

 

[lhommedieu]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

Edit: there is a thread on HBT that suggests that WLP002 tends towards a drier/more neutral profile.

The following is useful:

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain.cfm

It's helpful to know, for example, that London 1968 tends towards a less attenuated, more fruity beer than 1028 - although fruity esters are apparent with 1028. It would be worthwhile to compare the two using the same process, since I work on getting attenuation with 1968 by keeping my mash temperature low, fermentation temperature at 67, etc. But that's another variable - I'll work through the hops first, then switch to yeasts, lol...

 

[Puddlethumper]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

I don't know from personal experience but some have said they are the same strain. Both Fuller's and completely interchangeable.

 

[lowtones84]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

I don't know from personal experience but some have said they are the same strain. Both Fuller's and completely interchangeable.

Yeah, they're supposed to be the same strain. Some people will attest that even the same strain from different companies acts slightly differently. I don't have any evidence to confirm or deny this, but I could see some subtle differences being possible just from the methods they use to extract/produce/store/whatever.

The one beer I've had from my first batch with WLP 002 was pretty neutral, but I kept it on the low side of the recommended temps until after day 4 of fermentation. It certainly left some malt profile, but I wouldn't mind a little more honestly. I don't know what the FG was unfortunately because I broke my hydrometer while getting supplies together to bottle :smack:

 

[Barley_Bob]

Thanks for the tips and notes in here. I used this, plus some other recipes on the site, to put together a recipe for an ESB. I cracked it the other day, and it's excellent. I used WLP006 Bedford British (Charles Wells).

 

[DavidJP]

I used WLP006 Bedford British (Charles Wells).

I'm a big fan of the Bedford strain, takes longer to clear than 002 but gives a nice rounded flavour

 

[Barley_Bob]

I've read threads where people talk about this in regards to Bedford, and it was not my experience. I brewed this in a heat wave, and I don't have a dedicated ferm chamber. So, I kept it at an average of 66F (slightly higher than reported average use temp by HBTers)for the first week, and then I let it [slowly] drift up to 74F for the second week. It was done and cleared in no time.

I've also heard people talk about a musty odor associated with this yeast. This was my experience as well, but the odor cleared really well after this week at a higher temp and then a cold crash. What I'm left with, is a very clear beer, with excellent yeast character.

Someone is going to ream me on the fast turn around... This is the quickest turn around I've had on a batch, and it's been a great result. I would consider it as an alternate strategy for this yeast.

Disclosure: I have not used WLP002

 

[JKaranka]

Today I had the weirdest experience. In Yorkshire for the first time and I had cask John Smith. First time I see it. Thin, watery, metallic, but immensely drinkable compared to the widely available keg and can versions. Bitters around here are definitively fairly bitter too. Not insane craft bitter, but multiples of pilsner bitter.

 

[rhys333]

If you use 1469 - at least in my experience - keep a handle on temperature for sure. I love it fermented on the cool side 63-66 .... maybe a slight rise to 68 toward the very end. I do not like it if it starts in the upper 60's and goes over 70 - it can throw some weird flavors when it gets a little warm.
It is a really great yeast though for bitters and milds - it can add a lot to a beer.

I'm using 1469 for the first time now. Very impressed so far with fermentation characteristics, top-cropping ability too. I decided to push it warmer, around 68-70F... i'm a fan of esters. I guess I'll see if it was the right choice for me in a couple weeks. You mention weird flavors at warmer temps... how would you describe it?

 

[DavidJP]

I've read threads where people talk about this in regards to Bedford, and it was not my experience. I brewed this in a heat wave, and I don't have a dedicated ferm chamber. So, I kept it at an average of 66F (slightly higher than reported average use temp by HBTers)for the first week, and then I let it [slowly] drift up to 74F for the second week. It was done and cleared in no time.

Disclosure: I have not used WLP002

I think you'd notice the difference in flocculation, white labs site lists Bedford as High and 002 as Very High. I've used 002 a lot and continue to do so but prefer Bedford I think although not displeased with 002 to any degree. If you wanted to get a quicker turnaround I'd use 002, amazing how quick it flocks out.

Theres a good discussion of Bedford vs other UK yeast strains on this site
http://perfectpint.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/evaluating-yeast-character-part-ii.html

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm using 1469 for the first time now. Very impressed so far with fermentation characteristics, top-cropping ability too. I decided to push it warmer, around 68-70F... i'm a fan of esters. I guess I'll see if it was the right choice for me in a couple weeks. You mention weird flavors at warmer temps... how would you describe it?

FWIW, I use 1469 in everything, usually ferment it 66-68, but have gone up to 70-72, without any weird off flavors. It does get very fruity at those temps, which I guess could be a little much for some.

 

[rhys333]

FWIW, I use 1469 in everything, usually ferment it 66-68, but have gone up to 70-72, without any weird off flavors. It does get very fruity at those temps, which I guess could be a little much for some.

I'm good with the fruity. More complex, I think. Do you top crop as well? I'm surprised to see a 3rd krausen has formed after dirt skim and then collection.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm good with the fruity. More complex, I think. Do you top crop as well? I'm surprised to see a 3rd krausen has formed after dirt skim and then collection.

I do top crop with it on occasion, but more often than not I end up repitching from the cake.

My only issue with the yeast is that the krausen usually takes a long time to fall. Usually a week or more after reaching FG, even after everything below has dropped bright.

 

[balrog]

Yeah, they're supposed to be the same strain. Some people will attest that even the same strain from different companies acts slightly differently. I don't have any evidence to confirm or deny this, but I could see some subtle differences being possible just from the methods they use to extract/produce/store/whatever.

Regarding strains; I recently had an interesting conversation with someone who used to be in an area brew club with the owner of a local brewery. They determined not only what yeast strain to use for the flagship pale ale, but also which generation re-pitch gave the desired flavors--this then was what they sent to the lab to culture and freeze production lots. I'm not sure how to rectify this against (a) they're constantly re-pitching all day long during the production, (b) on their tour they say they will re-pitch for several months before starting with another frozen sample, (c) if re-pitching changes flavor profile of yeasts, how the thunder am I *EVER* going to figure out any of this grand designed experiment that is brewing?!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Regarding strains; I recently had an interesting conversation with someone who used to be in an area brew club with the owner of a local brewery. They determined not only what yeast strain to use for the flagship pale ale, but also which generation re-pitch gave the desired flavors--this then was what they sent to the lab to culture and freeze production lots. I'm not sure how to rectify this against (a) they're constantly re-pitching all day long during the production, (b) on their tour they say they will re-pitch for several months before starting with another frozen sample, (c) if re-pitching changes flavor profile of yeasts, how the thunder am I *EVER* going to figure out any of this grand designed experiment that is brewing?!

Yeast are a living thing, and tend to do what they want. If the brewery is top notch with their yeast management, they may be able to go for many generations with the same pitch before they have to start fresh. Or, I know some brewers select a yeast as their "house" yeast in the most literal sense, and they just keep repitching and allowing it to change over time until it starts to throw things that aren't just different, but bad. And then the same brewer may do something different with another strain, and go no more than 2 or 3 generations before starting over with a fresh culture (this example is also from a local brewery who does exactly that)

I personally will go up to maybe 5 generations, but I won't go more than that. For me, it peaks around generation 3-4, and that's not "different" flavors but rather quality of flavor, intensity of flavor, manageability, speed, etc. It ferments easiest, best, and fastest. The flavor isn't different, just more of what I want and less of what I don't. Less time conditioning, etc. When you go too far, and you start getting higher percentages of mutants, that's when things can start changing, sometimes better or sometimes worse.

 

[lhommedieu]

Yeast are a living thing, and tend to do what they want.....

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?