English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Qhrumphf]

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?

That's one of those things where neither YeastCalc nor Mr. Malty can do it all, so I use a combination of the two.

I use Mr. Malty's "repitching from slurry" settings to get an approximation of how many cells I have. I usually don't need to make a starter from it since I usually harvest one day, and then repitch a day or two later (and one yeast cake usually provides enough yeast after rinsing for 2-3 batches without needing starters, depending on the gravity of the new batches, or maybe one batch with no starter if you're doing a 1.120 Barleywine or something like that), but when I do have to make a starter from it, I go with YeastCalc, using the cell count from Mr. Malty as the initial innoculation rate. Since Mr. Malty is giving you viable cells, not total cells, I leave the viability in YeastCalc at maximium (96%).

 

[rhys333]

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?

Another user sent me this when I had similar questions:
https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

Also, if you want to try top-cropping, there's a video on youtube:
http://youtu.be/nCvR49yYeVE
With the right strain, you'll get super healthy pure yeast. I'm finding this is my preferred method.

 

[rhys333]

My only issue with the yeast is that the krausen usually takes a long time to fall. Usually a week or more after reaching FG, even after everything below has dropped bright.

Exactly my experience with it. A small price to pay though for a bright tasty beer

 

[unionrdr]

Top-cropping does look like an easier way to get clean yest. Might try that sometime when I brew twice in one week.

 

[dzlater]

Here are a couple of my favorites
This one is from the Wheeler book, Brew Your Own British Real Ale

Hook Norton Hooky Dark - Mild
================================================================================
Batch Size: 6.047 gal
Boil Size: 7.547 gal
Boil Time: 90.000 min
Efficiency: 80%
OG: 1.033
FG: 1.008
ABV: 3.2%
Bitterness: 25.6 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 12 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 4.750 lb Yes No 78% 3 L
Simpsons - Crystal Medium Grain 10.000 oz Yes No 74% 55 L
Cane (Beet) Sugar Sugar 10.000 oz No No 100% 0 L
Corn, Flaked Grain 6.000 oz Yes No 80% 1 L
Black (Patent) Malt Grain 3.000 oz Yes No 55% 500 L
Total grain: 6.562 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Challenger 8.9% 0.332 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 11.4
Willamette 5.0% 0.317 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 6.1
First Gold 7.5% 0.282 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 8.1
Willamette 5.0% 0.317 oz Boil 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

Misc
================================================================================
Name Type Use Amount Time
Yeast Nutrient Other Boil 1.000 tsp 10.000 min
Whirlfloc Fining Boil 2.000 qt 10.000 min

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
UK Dark Ale Yeast Ale Dry 0.388 oz Primary

Mash
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Temp Target Time
Conversion Infusion 4.082 gal 158.787 F 153.000 F 60.000 min
Final Batch Sparge Infusion 4.190 gal 172.916 F 165.200 F 15.000 min



This one I got from Zymurgy.



OXON JHB - Standard/Ordinary Bitter
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.500 gal
Boil Size: 7.000 gal
Boil Time: 90.000 min
Efficiency: 80%
OG: 1.040
FG: 1.011
ABV: 3.8%
Bitterness: 28.3 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 6 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 7.000 lb Yes No 78% 3 L
White Wheat Malt Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 86% 2 L
Total grain: 7.500 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Challenger 5.7% 1.000 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 21.8
Mount Hood 5.5% 0.500 oz Dry Hop 7.000 day Pellet 0.0
First Gold 3.3% 1.500 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 6.4

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - London Ale III Ale Liquid 0.528 cup Primary

Mash
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Temp Target Time
Conversion Infusion 3.994 gal 158.291 F 151.000 F 60.000 min
Final Batch Sparge Infusion 3.981 gal 175.457 F 165.200 F 15.000 min

 

[Hanglow]

Today I had the weirdest experience. In Yorkshire for the first time and I had cask John Smith. First time I see it. Thin, watery, metallic, but immensely drinkable compared to the widely available keg and can versions. Bitters around here are definitively fairly bitter too. Not insane craft bitter, but multiples of pilsner bitter.

I've never had it on cask. Not sure I'd go out of my way to try it

Yorkshire has a lot of great breweries that's for certain

One of my favourite yorkshire bitters is Acorn's Barnsley Bitter, it's an excellent example. I did a quick search to see what the recipe might be and I found this blog post which made very interesting reading for anyone interested in Yorkshire bitter or indeed english beer in general

http://goodfoodgoodbeer.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/heres-to-yorkshire-bitter/

As for Barnsley Bitter, - MO, crystal, pale chocolate, hopped with challenger, their own two strain yeast. I can see why I like it

 

[lhommedieu]

Nice article. I'll go back and read it again when I'm not so bleary-eyed.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here are a couple of my favorites
This one is from the Wheeler book, Brew Your Own British Real Ale

Interesting recipes. Since I don't have a good dark mild recipe on hand that one may be my first attempt to brew one.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Interesting recipes. Since I don't have a good dark mild recipe on hand that one may be my first attempt to brew one.

I could go for another Mild. I realized the other day that I've got everything on hand to brew my house Dark Mild. Except for the Pale Chocolate malt. I've got a few ounces each of black malt and roasted barley I can sub. Won't be the same but good enough. Probably knock that out in the next month or two.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I could go for another Mild. I realized the other day that I've got everything on hand to brew my house Dark Mild. Except for the Pale Chocolate malt. I've got a few ounces each of black malt and roasted barley I can sub. Won't be the same but good enough. Probably knock that out in the next month or two.

What goes into yours?

 

[Qhrumphf]

What goes into yours?

Recipe is in the dropdown. This was the most recent version from this spring (killed off maybe a month and a half ago). It's also finally right where I want it, and won't be getting changed further.

4 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 7 68.1 %
10.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM) Grain 8 10.6 %
8.0 oz Biscuit (Dingemans) (22.5 SRM) Grain 9 8.5 %
6.0 oz Crystal, Dark - 150L (Muntons) (150.0 SRM) Grain 10 6.4 %
6.0 oz Pale Chocolate (Thomas Fawcett) (215.0 SRM) Grain 11 6.4 %
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 12 16.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 13 -

Est Original Gravity: 1.034 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 2.8 %
Bitterness: 16.9 IBUs
Est Color: 18.2 SRM

And target mash water profile:
Ca 65
Mg 11
Na 31
SO4 43
Cl 89
HCO3 107

Mashed at 158, and fermented at 66. And primed to 1.5 volumes.


As far as the next one, I might go 4 oz roasted barley and 2 oz black malt in place of the pale chocolate. It'll be a darkier and and a little roastier, but I'm ok with that.

 

[Hackwood]

Question: Do you use the Ultra hops as listed in BeerSmith?

Nope. I have changed it to EKG, Tettnang, Saaz and a couple others and I like a mixture of EKG and Saaz. Stronger on the EKG, but kicked in a oz of Saaz late because someone said I should. So I did. Good beer. Fun to make little changes to!

 

[JKaranka]

I think EKG + Saaz is a killer combo!

 

[Hanglow]

I've done a couple of challenger+saaz beers recently. Quite enjoying them

 

[unionrdr]

EKG & Stirling is good to. I even used EKG in my best to date IPA.

 

[lowtones84]

Hey guys, I wanted to share a recipe I'm kicking around that I'll brew Friday. It's not a "traditional" brown porter by any means but more of a hybrid and personalized style. I love using spelt in my Belgian beers and wanted to try it here as well. The idea is a fall inspired "harvest" porter/malt party Once again, this is a -four- gallon batch.

Estimated OG: 1.085ish

6 lb. Crisp MO
1.5 lb. Unmalted Spelt (lightly oven toasted)
1 lb. Flaked oats (lightly oven toasted)
1 lb. Brown Malt (Crisp)
.5 lb. Flaked Barley
6 oz. Chocolate Malt
6 oz. Melanoidin Malt
1 lb. Invert sugar (Will be going for #2)

Mash-154? 156?

I have Challenger, some fuggles, and 1 oz. of Bramling cross.

Yeast- WLP 002, but thinking of experimenting with a dual strain of WLP 002 and a Dupont culture.

Crazy? Probably a little. I'm going to do something along these lines regardless, but was wondering if anyone had any ideas or feedback before brewday. Thanks in advance!

 

[JKaranka]

I'd reduce the unmalted adjuncts by half a pound and add half a pound of brown. Looks cool! I'm sticking to porters and stouts for a few months, trying different grists. Going for 1/3 Brown to 2/3 Pale in the next one. The last one is now bottled and it was so good off the fermenter that I had a pint of it.

 

[lowtones84]

Why would you reduce the unmalted adjuncts by half a pound? Unless MO has significantly less diastatic power than US 2-row it should all convert just fine. Just a question, not doubting you

I'm working on porters and stouts myself over the fall/winter months. I would like to try one with a lot of Brown malt but it's kind of expensive to buy by the pound around me, and I have a sack of MO. Might have to do a dry stout after this porter.

 

[Hanglow]

Mo has a litner value of about 40 or 50, so you would be touch and go to convert it in a short mash. Although I think you'd be fine tbf, just do a 90 min mash and it'll convert easy. It has much less diastatic power that murican 2 row I know beersmith says otherwise, but it is wrong.

Not wanting to put words into his mouth, but there are a lot of various unmalted grains there and I think it might be better to concentrate on the spelt rather that the three different types in there. IMO of course. Only because I've never used it before

 

[lowtones84]

I hear you on concentrating on the spelt, but the concept of the "harvest porter" is to use just about all the table grains possible...except I don't have rye on hand To me flaked oats don't contribute much flavor, just mouthfeel, so I'm not worried about it personally.

 

[JKaranka]

Get some six row

 

[johncieera]

I love Bass & Co's Pale Ale clone.

 

[MrFeltimo]

I love ordinary bitters, low alcohol and easy drinking.
keep it simple tho, mine are 80/10/10% usually Maris otter, crystal 55 and a sugar of some type, lyes golden syrup is always a good choice, and always use British hops, Fuggles, EKG, target, northdown and challenger, are my favorites.

Dan

 

[lhommedieu]

I'll be making a brown ale for a Christmas party soon. Real simple at apx 85/10/5 MO/crystal 60/chocolate. Fuggles and EKG. Yorkshire ale yeast.



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[MrFeltimo]

I'll be making a brown ale for a Christmas party soon. Real simple at apx 85/10/5 MO/crystal 60/chocolate. Fuggles and EKG. Yorkshire ale yeast.



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i love the Yorkshire ale, chewy..

 

[lhommedieu]

i love the Yorkshire ale, chewy..

I'll be using it for the first time. It's a Northern Brown Ale, as I like Samuel Smith's "Nut Brown Ale" a lot. My actual grain bill:

Marris Otter: 84%
Crystal 60: 13.4%
Chocolate: 2.6%

My sister's a vegan and requested an organic beer for Christmas. Personally I think that this beer will go well with short ribs, lol. As I have a window available in my fermenter between my current lager and one that I'll ferment in November, why not?

 

[Robbienev]

I grew up in West Sussex, and spent a lot of time in Gales pubs, on both sides of the bar

After a long night we'd refer to HSB as Highly Silly Brew!

 

[ayrlander]

I just tapped a Pale Mild I did. First time putting my own beer on "cask" via polypins (and poured via gravity). I'm loving the beer. And for you folks who want to do cask at home, but like me, you won't have the ability to mow through a whole batch before it goes stale without your wife divorcing you for being an alcoholic, check out the polypin route. I'm amazed how easy it is and how well it works. About 5.2 gallons into the fermenter, about 4.7 gallons after loss to yeast cake primed to about 1.2 volumes into 5 separate one gallon Cubitainers (Northern Brewer sells them, I bought mine from US Plastics) leaving just a little headspace in each one, and then compressed down to purge the oxygen and sealed up, allowed to balloon up fully, vented to keep em from bursting, let em settle for a bit, and pour. I'm not sure how long the shelf life will be, but given than I killed the first pin in 2 days (easy with a 2.9% Mild), I'm not too worried about the shelf life. They're all pretty much fully ballooned at this point. I tapped the first one after 5 days. I'm gonna give it another week or so before tapping the others.

I just found this thread, and as I'm reading through I was planning to ask if anyone had a cheap and easy way to cask one of these versus bottling (which I don't want to do every few weeks) or kegging (I have no equipment or space for it). Thanks for this info, I will certainly be checking it out!

 

[DavidJP]

I grew up in West Sussex, and spent a lot of time in Gales pubs, on both sides of the bar

After a long night we'd refer to HSB as Highly Silly Brew!

Have you tried doing a HSB clone. I did one recently based mostly on roger protz and graham wheelers book but whilst pretty good not sure it was up to the real thing.

 

[Hanglow]

What yeast did you use? You can get the Gales yeast from Brewlabs, I imagine that would be key to it

 

[DavidJP]

What yeast did you use? You can get the Gales yeast from Brewlabs, I imagine that would be key to it

I used the Wyeast Northwest ale
https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=139
which supposedly is from Gales brewery originally
http://www.mrmalty.com/wyeast.php

It worked out well but I seem to remember the gales HSB being a little better but its been a while since i tried it and it may be with rose tinted perspective, everyone seemed to like it well enough.

 

[lhommedieu]

After looking at this website, and reviewing Jamil's guidelines for Northern Brown Ale I've decided to update my recipe for Northern Brown Ale:

10 lbs 12.8 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
11.2 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
5.6 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
5.4 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)
1.06 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.80 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.49 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining
1.57 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Aroma Steep 5.0 min
1.6 pkg Yorkshire Square Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP037) [50.28 ml] Yeast (Stir plate to appropriate starter size).

25.7 IBU's; IBU/SG ration is 0.54
15.2 SRM (Might be a bit darker due to the 90 minute boil)
ABV is 4.5%

Mast at 152 for 90 minutes. I lose 1-2 degrees over this time in an insulated mash tun, but that's fine. Fly Sparge. Boil 8.5 gallon volume for 90 minutes for a post-boil volume of 7 gallons. 1.047 OG. Ferment in primary for 2 weeks and then start taking FG readings. (After going back and forth on the primary vs. primary and secondary fermenter question, I've decided that I like the use of the secondary fermenter. I transfer using C02, so it's just a little work and little risk.) 1.013 FG. Cold crash with gelatin and transfer to purged keg. Age for apx 2 months or sooner to taste.

I considered a few things when tweaking my recipe. First, the use of EKG as a bittering hop and Fuggles as an aroma hop sounded interesting. Second was the description of Yorkshire Square yeast: "This yeast produces a malty but well balanced profile. Expect toasty flavors with malt driven esters. Highly flocculent and a good choice for many English ales." Third was the decision to add a slightly more biscuit and toasty flavor to the beer and to cut down on the caramel profile that a higher Crystal 60 percentage would have added. I hope the result is a dry, balanced, Brown Ale similar to Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale.

 

[Robbienev]

Have you tried doing a HSB clone. I did one recently based mostly on roger protz and graham wheelers book but whilst pretty good not sure it was up to the real thing.

I haven't (yet) but I'm starting to think about it.

Really trying to figure out my options for cask conditioning at the moment too.

 

[Robbienev]

Have you tried doing a HSB clone. I did one recently based mostly on roger protz and graham wheelers book but whilst pretty good not sure it was up to the real thing.

I haven't (yet) but I'm starting to think about it.

Really trying to figure out my options for cask conditioning at the moment too.

Then there's cellaring, beers engines etc etc

 

[DavidJP]

Here's the recipe I ended up with for a Gales HSB clone

Bitterness: 28.0 IBUs
Est Color: 17.5 SRM

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 28.0 IBUs
Est Color: 17.5 SRM


9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 83.9 %
10 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) 5.7 %
5.0 oz Crystal Malt Medium Bairds (74.1 SRM) 2.9 %
2 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) 1.4 %
2 oz Black Malt (Bairds) (560.9 SRM) 1.4 %
8.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 4.6 %
17.58g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 11.0 IBUs
15 g Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 15.7 IBUs
10 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 1.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Northwest Ale (Wyeast Labs #1332) 1 litre starter

Mashed 60 mins 152F
Boiled 90 mins

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here's the recipe I ended up with for a Gales HSB clone

Great looking recipe and thanks for posting it. What was the reason for the table sugar? Had you considered invert instead? If so, what was your reasoning for going with the plain sugar?

Please understand that I'm not being critical...just curious about how this recipe came to where it is.

Thanks and cheers!

 

[DavidJP]

Great looking recipe and thanks for posting it. What was the reason for the table sugar? Had you considered invert instead? If so, what was your reasoning for going with the plain sugar?

Please understand that I'm not being critical...just curious about how this recipe came to where it is.

Thanks and cheers!

Please no worries about being critical, I’m still learning to get a few English recipes down and appreciate any advice.

I think I got the original idea from the book “Brew your own real ale at home” by Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz. Its a CAMRA publication from 1994 or at least that's the edition I have, I think its still being produced. The recipe in there is

Gales Horndean special bitter (HSB)
Pale malt 4000g (78%)
Torrefied wheat 260g (5%)
Black malt 75g (1.5%)
White sugar 770g (15%)
Challenger hops 20g start of boil
Goldings hops 22g start of boil
Fuggles hops 26g start of boil
Goldings hops 10g 15 mins
Mash 65C, 90 mins
Boil 2 hours
OG 1050

Since my version is fairly different from that and my notes indicate that I got a lot of the recipe from the site below which I think is a british equivalent of this site
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61665

Gales HSB
Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Pale Malt 5 EBC 11 lbs. 11.8 oz 5330 grams 85.5%
Torrefied Wheat 4 EBC 0 lbs. 12.7 oz 360 grams 5.8%
Black Malt 1300 EBC 0 lbs. 2.2 oz 63 grams 1%
Sugar, Household White 0 EBC 0 lbs. 10.5 oz 295 grams 4.8%
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 0 lbs. 6.3 oz 180 grams 2.9%

Both mention the use of white sugar and whilst I guess that may be down to it being easier to obtain, the graham wheeler book has plenty of recipes with invert in them. So I was assuming that it was authentic but now you make me think about it I’d guess its most likely that some sort of invert is used.
I haven’t used that much invert beyond chucking a couple of pots of Lyles golden syrup in two batches of bitter.

I may be using more now though as a local southern California formerly british owned supermarket chain is busy liquidating its british food section. Lyles golden syrup and black treacle is going for about a $1 a piece and I’m busy stocking up. I may try the HSB again with invert. I’ve seen the info about making your own and may try that but I also saw somewhere a recipe for different grades of invert by differing dilutions of golden syrup and black treacle so may go that route first. Luckily they seem to be keeping the british bacon which is the one thing almost impossible to find anywhere else here, apparently there was a letter writing campaign to keep it once the company changed hands.

 

[balrog]

Luckily they seem to be keeping the british bacon

NOT THE BACON!?! Just kidding.

I am curious about the sugar addition myself since plain sugar is said to dry out beer leaving no addition to flavor or feel; while invert/molasses/treacle/Lyles adds something to flavor and sweetness with unfermentable sugars etc. Fuller's London Pride or Hobgoblin have a certain hint of sweetness that's not just Crystal malt, but I've yet to try different invert additions (the Moon may be a harsh mistress, but time's a real beeyatch)

 

[Puddlethumper]

I see what you mean. It would appear that the drying action of the table sugar is considered important to these recipes. I'm a long time fan of "if it's not broke don't try to fix it". If the beer is good I wouldn't mess with any changes.

Cheers!



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[DavidJP]

I see what you mean. It would appear that the drying action of the table sugar is considered important to these recipes. I'm a long time fan of "if it's not broke don't try to fix it". If the beer is good I wouldn't mess with any changes.

The interesting thing is that I took this beer together with another standard bitter that was entirely malt based to the local homebrew club and entered them both in that months pale ale competition. There were quite a few entries and both seemed to go down well and I actually thought the all malt bitter would prove more popular. In the end the HSB won that months competition.

I guess I was a bit down on it because I remember drinking this on cask in the UK and seemed to think it was a bit more fuller bodied but it was a long time ago.