English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[balrog]

Here's a porter that I've made a couple of times
200 gr (0.5 lb) British Medium Crystal (Crystal 60 or 80 ok but slight flavor difference)

50 gr (0.1 lb) English Chocolate malt

First, thanks for the recipe. Two questions come to my mind:
What would you say is the flavor difference between the Medium Crystal and the 60/80 I can find at my US LHBS? And is "English Chocolate Malt" mean "pale" or do I just need to source a Simpson's or Fawcett to get the right flavor? Thanks!

 

[Puddlethumper]

First, thanks for the recipe. Two questions come to my mind:
What would you say is the flavor difference between the Medium Crystal and the 60/80 I can find at my US LHBS? And is "English Chocolate Malt" mean "pale" or do I just need to source a Simpson's or Fawcett to get the right flavor? Thanks!

No problem with the questions. The recipe is about word for word from the original as posted in the book I got it from. Since the book is produced in England by and for British home-brewers I have made an effort to stick to ingredients that would be available there. That is the only reason I suggest the use of British grains.

It's important to note that this recipe appears in the section of the book that provides basic recipes for general brewing. The authors weren't trying to replicate any particular beer. I believe this gives us some liberty to make any of their recipes to our own taste. Because I like it so well I have tried to stick as close to that recipe as possible every time. So I can't speak with any authority on what impact varying the grains I used might have on the finished beer.

To my palette there is very little difference between the British medium crystal and the Crystal 60L - 80L readily available at most lhbs. But I do find that when I chew a few kernels of each I can tell them apart. I have a hard time describing the difference so would suggest the next time you visit the lhbs ask them to let you chew on a few kernels of each. You may not notice much difference at all or again, you might notice a lot. Palettes vary. And in the end, how much impact it would have on the beer when it's drawn from the tap I can't say. I'd assume it will have some effect, but because of all the other big grains in the recipe, it probably won't matter a lot. I would expect either would produce an excellent beer.

And the answer regarding the chocolate malt is similar to the above. The recipe doesn't specify if you're to use a dark, medium or light chocolate. I prefer my porters to be dark so I chose to use a dark chocolate such as Baird's. Since the recipe doesn't specify between dark or light chocolate a person might try it with Crisp. One might also split the difference with some Briess and it would probably work just fine but again, you would be introducing an American malt into a British recipe.

Hope this is of some help. Cheers!

 

[balrog]

Thanks. That helps very much.

 

[lowtones84]

I would agree with Puddlethumper. I would also say that if you have access to the British malts, use them. I've been using all Crisp malting co. stuff in my recent recipes and they are decidedly English.

I had a friend of a friend over around a month ago who just moved over a few years ago and had him try my ordinary bitter. He said that it was spot on to what he grew up (yes, grew up ) drinking in England with his dad. The only criticism he had was that the carbonation was slightly too high as compared to a cask conditioned ale, which is understandable.

 

[Puddlethumper]

The only criticism he had was that the carbonation was slightly too high as compared to a cask conditioned ale, which is understandable.

It seems we have a universal problem with over-carbonating and over-chilling our beers in the view of most Brits.

 

[lowtones84]

It seems we have a universal problem with over-carbonating and over-chilling our beers in the view of most Brits.

Haha yup! Some of my American friends said that it was under-carbed :cross: This English guy said drinking a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter was "like driking milk" texture wise. Whoa.

 

[dyqik]

Haha yup! Some of my American friends said that it was under-carbed :cross: This English guy said drinking a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter was "like driking milk" texture wise. Whoa.

Yep, that's about right, according to this English guy - I wouldn't say it's exactly like drinking milk, but that does give an indication of the direction of the difference. The mouth feel is just different with carbonation - even bottling to low carb levels isn't quite the same. Cask conditioning is very easy to do with a polypin/cubitainer, provided you have a fridge/cellar that you can keep about 55-60F. Try it side by side with a gallon cubitainer and 4 gal in a keg or bottled. Also, make sure you use 20oz glasses - you need a full pint...

I don't think the handpulling makes much difference though. Gravity served has the same thing going on.

 

[JKaranka]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

 

[dyqik]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

Oh yes.

You get a reasonable idea if you drink the hydrometer sample from a completed fermentation that you're doing at around 62-64f. Obviously it's very green still, but the carbonation isn't far off what you'd get from a cask and pour through a beer engine. It's not like degassed wine.

Sparklers are an abomination though. They only exist to make English beer look like it does in an American film and so you can cheat the drinker out of about 5% of a pint. </Southern Englander>

More seriously, they aren't traditional on English ales, and they do make the beer and hops taste flatter.

 

[Puddlethumper]

It's meant to be still somewhat carbonated, though. A bit like 'still cider' is often a bit more carbonated than absolutely flat. Often the head comes from the use of the sprinkler, but you should still have bubbles coming up the pint. It just shouldn't be like a fizzy drink!

Well said. I recently enjoyed a couple of pints of an excellent house porter served at a nice pub in Medford, OR. It was served at about 45-50F by my guess, had a nice light ring of foam around the edge of the glass but little in the middle. It was creamy, smooth and utterly enjoyable. I could have easily spent the rest of the evening in that pub but would have needed someone with a wheelbarrow to get me home. Decided against that option.

 

[Hanglow]

I find sparklers to be fine with stouts and porters etc, but for bitters, golden ales, IPAs then I prefer without. Ideally through an Aitken Fount too rather than a handpull You can still get a good head if the beer is in proper condition without a sparkler, depending on how you pour it


If a cask has a lot of condition, as some should, then all you'll get with a sparkler is a glass of foam

 

[Puddlethumper]

So let me ask a stupid question here ... when you mention a "sparkler" what are you referring to? This is the first I've run across the term except for kid's fireworks.

 

[lowtones84]

Yep, that's about right, according to this English guy - I wouldn't say it's exactly like drinking milk, but that does give an indication of the direction of the difference. The mouth feel is just different with carbonation - even bottling to low carb levels isn't quite the same. Cask conditioning is very easy to do with a polypin/cubitainer, provided you have a fridge/cellar that you can keep about 55-60F. Try it side by side with a gallon cubitainer and 4 gal in a keg or bottled. Also, make sure you use 20oz glasses - you need a full pint...

I don't think the handpulling makes much difference though. Gravity served has the same thing going on.

I've been wanting to try the cubitainer option for a little bit since I don't have a whole lot of money for beer equipment. Have you used them? If so, do you like it? Do you prime with sugar in the cubitainer or do you transfer when fermentation is just about over or something like that?

 

[Hanglow]

It attaches onto the end of the neck of a beer engine and is essentially like a shower head, so when you pull beer through it, it forces some CO2 out of solution and you get a creamy head. There's a bit of a North/South divide in England over its use

 

[ayrlander]

I've been wanting to try the cubitainer option for a little bit since I don't have a whole lot of money for beer equipment. Have you used them? If so, do you like it? Do you prime with sugar in the cubitainer or do you transfer when fermentation is just about over or something like that?

I've been wanting to try cask ales, too, but haven't been able to find suitable containers online for sale in the US. Anyone have any pointers and how to cask?

 

[coyote68]

I've been wanting to try cask ales, too, but haven't been able to find suitable containers online for sale in the US. Anyone have any pointers and how to cask?

here's an engine build that i used it works great.. also a search in the DIY section has lots of info.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/beer-engine-caskegerator-360684/

 

[Puddlethumper]

It attaches onto the end of the neck of a beer engine and is essentially like a shower head, so when you pull beer through it, it forces some CO2 out of solution and you get a creamy head. There's a bit of a North/South divide in England over its use

Thanks!

 

[sanguine]

For those who lack the space and/or budget for a full engine setup - as I do - there's a pretty nice "miniature beer engine" build floating around that uses a snapware for a base/vessel and a small hand pump, plus some fittings, to dispense the beer. It's certainly not much compared to a real pub-worthy one, but I built mine for less than $50 in materials in like an hour, and it doesn't take up much counter space in my dinky studio apartment. I can either pour bottled beer into the snapware and serve it from there, or attach a longer piece of tubing and use a growler or mini keg as a makeshift "cask."

 

[Qhrumphf]

I don't use an engine at all, currently at least. Planning on putting an engine into the fold in the future.

I do strict gravity using these: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23286. Fill em up after fermentation ends (primed individually to 1.4 volumes or so with corn sugar) with a tiny bit of headspace , attach spigot and then condense it down to purge out the oxygen from headpsace, keep around 70 for 5 days, purge only if you have to, chill overnight to cellar tempand then feed by gravity, and allow to settle in place 24 hours before tapping. Then consume in maybe 48 hours.

 

[CadiBrewer]

Can you guys describe for me the dominant taste in a Fuller's London Porter? I'm terrible at describing tastes in beer. I recently made a clone from the BYO recipe and I tasted it side by side with the real thing, but it didn't have that "twang" that the real thing has. Is that fruit esters from the yeast? Is that bitterness from the hops? Is that roast from the malts? Mine is a good beer, but very one-dimensional next to the real thing.

I figure that with a better description of that dominant taste, I'll be able to see where I differ and be able to get closer to a great beer.

To my terrible taste buds, it is kind of like plums and alcohol together but that's the best description I can come up with.

 

[dyqik]

I've been wanting to try cask ales, too, but haven't been able to find suitable containers online for sale in the US. Anyone have any pointers and how to cask?

I cask in a 20l Speidel Fermenter, using a second spigot on the top and a cask breather made from a LP propane regulator.

Cubitainers can be bought from US plastics, Uline, etc. in 1, 2.5 and 5 gallon sizes. Spigots are sold separately. Somewhere there's a PDF from Northern Brewer (who used to sell cubitainers) about how to cask condition in them.

Any food safe container with a spigot that will hold a few PSI of pressure and that can be sterilized and cleaned is fine for use as a cask. US plastics have a whole range of FDA approved plastic square carboys with spigots.

I just open the fridge (I use my fermentation chamber for storing cask beer between brews) and pour under gravity, there's no need for a beer engine at all.

 

[Hanglow]

Can you guys describe for me the dominant taste in a Fuller's London Porter? I'm terrible at describing tastes in beer. I recently made a clone from the BYO recipe and I tasted it side by side with the real thing, but it didn't have that "twang" that the real thing has. Is that fruit esters from the yeast? Is that bitterness from the hops? Is that roast from the malts? Mine is a good beer, but very one-dimensional next to the real thing.

I figure that with a better description of that dominant taste, I'll be able to see where I differ and be able to get closer to a great beer.

To my terrible taste buds, it is kind of like plums and alcohol together but that's the best description I can come up with.

Have a look on ratebeer or beer advocate for descriptors, I'm terrible at describing too. Bear in mind Fullers tend to bottle a bit before the beer is ready imo and you get more diacetyl with their bottled efforts than in cask form or probably homebrewers as well. Although the london porter isn't as bad for that as Pride etc iirc. Also they pasteurise that beer

I made Graham Wheelers recipe and it was an excellent beer. Did you use the exact malts that Fullers use? Because it uses a lot of brown iirc and they can differ a lot between the various maltsters. Also because of that mine didn't start to taste really good until about eight weeks after I bottled it - it was a bit muddled

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

As this seems to be where the brewers of English ales hang out I thought I'd ask here.

What do you think of Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale? How does it compare to other English strains? I used it for Northern Brewer's Innkeeper and have since used it for two other batches that are currently fermenting.

 

[CadiBrewer]

Have a look on ratebeer or beer advocate for descriptors, I'm terrible at describing too. Bear in mind Fullers tend to bottle a bit before the beer is ready imo and you get more diacetyl with their bottled efforts than in cask form or probably homebrewers as well. Although the london porter isn't as bad for that as Pride etc iirc. Also they pasteurise that beer

I made Graham Wheelers recipe and it was an excellent beer. Did you use the exact malts that Fullers use? Because it uses a lot of brown iirc and they can differ a lot between the various maltsters. Also because of that mine didn't start to taste really good until about eight weeks after I bottled it - it was a bit muddled

Right now it is only 4 weeks in the keg, and muddled is a great description of the taste. No off flavors, just underwhelming maltiness. I'll refrain from pulling pints for another month and see what happens.

I did try to use the same malts, but I'm not sure I got all of them exact. On rebrew, I'll make more of an effort.

 

[rhys333]

As this seems to be where the brewers of English ales hang out I thought I'd ask here.

What do you think of Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale? How does it compare to other English strains? I used it for Northern Brewer's Innkeeper and have since used it for two other batches that are currently fermenting.

I like it a lot, using it for just about everything now. Great complex flavor, super reliable fermenter, and produces a ton of clean yeast for top-cropping. It also clears really well, even without cold crashing. Lower attenuation around 70%, but it comes across as drier and really well balanced.

 

[Chops1867]

How do the cubitainers or the beverage containers work with carbonated beer?

 

[lhommedieu]

I like it a lot, using it for just about everything now. Great complex flavor, super reliable fermenter, and produces a ton of clean yeast for top-cropping. It also clears really well, even without cold crashing. Lower attenuation around 70%, but it comes across as drier and really well balanced.

I haven't used it yet - but plan to do so for my next batch of Northern Brown Ale.

 

[balrog]

I do strict gravity using these: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23286. Fill em up after fermentation ends (primed individually to 1.4 volumes or so with corn sugar) with a tiny bit of headspace , attach spigot and then condense it down to purge out the oxygen from headpsace, keep around 70 for 5 days, purge only if you have to, chill overnight to cellar tempand then feed by gravity, and allow to settle in place 24 hours before tapping. Then consume in maybe 48 hours.

Now THIS sounds very exciting!

Somewhere there's a PDF from Northern Brewer (who used to sell cubitainers) about how to cask condition in them.

Thanks for saying that, my search-fu yields this (LINKY) for anyone interested.

How do the cubitainers or the beverage containers work with carbonated beer?

Apparently, per Qhrumphf above, pretty well and I'm very interested...

 

[lowtones84]

How do the cubitainers or the beverage containers work with carbonated beer?

They work apparently, but not to high volumes. From what I've read people do 1-1.5 volumes at most. I think I'm going to invest in a 1 gallon and a 2.5 gallon soon. Once I do and brew another bitter or mild (which should be soon), I will report, though I know others have already been doing it

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

I like it a lot, using it for just about everything now. Great complex flavor, super reliable fermenter, and produces a ton of clean yeast for top-cropping. It also clears really well, even without cold crashing. Lower attenuation around 70%, but it comes across as drier and really well balanced.

Thanks for the feedback rhys.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I definitely wouldn't go above 1.5 volumes. 1.2 is good and usually doesn't need venting. 1.4-1.5 volumes is where I go, and I usually do have to vent them a touch to make sure they don't burst. But yes, by gravity, no engine needed. Although I do plan eventually on putting together an engine/sparkler set up eventually.

I'd also note that unless you've got several people drinking or you drink a lot, probably better to go with a smaller one (I used the 1 gallon cubitainers). And the container can hold a little more than 1 gallon. I usually put about 0.9 gallons in there. And then they seem to lose carbonation a little over time, so definitely wouldn't recommend for something you plan on aging. If you want that on cask I'd go with a proper metal pin or firkin.

 

[Qhrumphf]

And 1469 is my house English yeast (or really just my house yeast). It's a good top cropper, good ester profile (not over the top, kind of a fruity-nutty thing), leaves a good malt-hop balance. It will indeed drop clear, but in my experience takes a little longer than other English strains, and is also notorious for leaving a sort of perma-krausen that hangs around even after the beer has dropped bright. If you leave it in the primary for a few weeks it'll fall, but if you want to rack sooner you'll have to rack out from underneath it. I almost always have to punch a hole in the krausen to take a gravity sample.

 

[dyqik]

Having just kegged my first bitter made with 1469, I can confirm that it still had a solid krausen, despite having been finished for three days, and "cold" crashed to 50f for two.

I would have casked it, but I need it for Thursday, and I usually reckon on a couple of weeks to condition in the cask. It won't take long to carb up to 1.5 vols...

 

[rhys333]

I find krausen on 1469 sticks around for about 11 days then drops out. I leave it in primary for 14 days minimum anyway

 

[ayrlander]

Now THIS sounds very exciting!



Thanks for saying that, my search-fu yields this (LINKY) for anyone interested.

Thanks for finding that! And to everyone for the good info. This does sound very exciting, I think I'll be trying it soon!

 

[JKaranka]

Sparklers show up here in Wales too, so I assume there's the usual South East bias and that's where they are *not* used The effect is a bit like the nitrogen in Guinness: Creamy, thick head, smooth; but without any gas actually added to the hand pump.

 

[Puddlethumper]

We just started pulling a few pints of the last batch of King's Forest Porter (recipe posted a while back). The flavor is excellent. The problem I have is that it has so many fans I may not be able to keep the keg around long enough to properly condition!

The one nit I would pick (just being a bit of beer-snob) and an update I would add to the recipe is I would suggest mashing it a little warmer than the original recipe calls for. It might need a little more fullness and will mash at 154F next time I make this beer.

Cheers!

 

[TastyAdventure]

I am going to make a Maris Otter Smash, and after that I will have quite a bit of MO left over. I am looking for a recipe where the MO character is pronounced, but not as simple as my smash.
I really like the idea of doing a higher OG Southern English Brown.
I'm looking for slightly sweet, but very drinkable, 6% or so ABV.
Could anybody help me with a recipe?

 

[urbanmyth]

I am going to make a Maris Otter Smash, and after that I will have quite a bit of MO left over. I am looking for a recipe where the MO character is pronounced, but not as simple as my smash.
I really like the idea of doing a higher OG Southern English Brown.
I'm looking for slightly sweet, but very drinkable, 6% or so ABV.
Could anybody help me with a recipe?

I make a mean English brown that is around 5.7% or so. It is based on the Brewing Network's Can You Brew It recipe of Black Sheep's Riggwelter. It is more of a Northern Brown, but the malt character is fantastic.

OG: 1.057

80% Maris Otter
10% Torrified Wheat
6% Crystal 80 (English)
4% Pale Chocolate (200L)

35 IBUs of EKG with about an ounce at 15 minutes.

I usually try to ferment this with 1469 from Wyeast, but I have used Nottingham in a pinch with great results, too. If you aren't up to making a starter, I would suggest the dry Nottingham. If you want it to finish a bit sweeter, a yeast like WLP002 or Wyeast 1968 would work just as well.

 

[TastyAdventure]

I make a mean English brown that is around 5.7% or so. It is based on the Brewing Network's Can You Brew It recipe of Black Sheep's Riggwelter. It is more of a Northern Brown, but the malt character is fantastic.

OG: 1.057

80% Maris Otter
10% Torrified Wheat
6% Crystal 80 (English)
4% Pale Chocolate (200L)

35 IBUs of EKG with about an ounce at 15 minutes.

I usually try to ferment this with 1469 from Wyeast, but I have used Nottingham in a pinch with great results, too. If you aren't up to making a starter, I would suggest the dry Nottingham. If you want it to finish a bit sweeter, a yeast like WLP002 or Wyeast 1968 would work just as well.

Thanks! Looks great, except what's with all that torrified wheat?