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British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

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MidAtlanticBrew

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Where do you buy from ... my LHBS only carries the standards and my online source morebeer doesn't carry them

If you guys have not already done so, check out the private collection yeasts from Wyeast. Three really nice English strains, including one of my personal favorites, Thames Valley II.
 

Gnomebrewer

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I haven't done again because I don't like the west yorkshire the second time around. Maybe there is a right way to harvest it but I couldn't find it.
West Yorkshire yeast is excellent for top cropping - skim the dark-coloured gunk off the top of the yeast when the krausen starts (usually at about 24hrs after pitching) and throw it away. Wait another 24hours then collect a jar of nice yeast off the top of the krausen. I have found that yeast collected this way doesn't like to be stored for too long though - ideally collect it and use it straight away.

Alternatively (this is how I do it now), make a starter with the smack pack, pitch 3/4 of the starter into the beer and use the other 1/4 for another starter.....etc....etc. It's cleaner (but less convenient) than using yeast cake.
 

gbx

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West Yorkshire yeast is excellent for top cropping - skim the dark-coloured gunk off the top of the yeast when the krausen starts (usually at about 24hrs after pitching) and throw it away. Wait another 24hours then collect a jar of nice yeast off the top of the krausen. I have found that yeast collected this way doesn't like to be stored for too long though - ideally collect it and use it straight away.

Alternatively (this is how I do it now), make a starter with the smack pack, pitch 3/4 of the starter into the beer and use the other 1/4 for another starter.....etc....etc. It's cleaner (but less convenient) than using yeast cake.
Its an alright top cropper IF you have a massive pitch of yeast. Massive pitch. Even then the attenuation is higher the second time around. If you don't have enough yeast in the first pitch it does the weird no-krausen bottom ferment. If you harvest from the bottom, the next beer will be rocket fuel. I generally don't do starters (the ordinary bitter is my starter) and 1 smack pack isn't enough 1469 for a good krausen.
 

Gill

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This thread had 65 pages, what happened?? We can't lose this treasure. Please tell me you can restore the backup or something lol
 

FermentedCulture

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I think the default posts per page of a thread is now 40 instead of like 10(?). After the update I looked for how to change posts per page but couldn't find it. I like 40 per page so it suits me.
 

Gill

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I think the default posts per page of a thread is now 40 instead of like 10(?). After the update I looked for how to change posts per page but couldn't find it. I like 40 per page so it suits me.
Oh what a relief, thanks!
 

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Hi! I hope this thread is still alive.

I brewed a Mild using WhiteLabs WLP005 British Ale yeast. OG 1.038, 20 IBU. 86% base malt, the rest was specialty malts (crystal, chocolate). Mashed at 67C for 60 minutes, then raised to mash out at 76C and fly sparged.

I pitched a 1.5l starter of WLP005 (decanted) and aerated the beer with airpump for about 20 minutes. I am using a plastic bucket with lid and airlock to ferment. The firt 3 days i kept the fermentation temperature around 18C, then i raised it slightly to 20C. On day 4 the gravity of the beer stabilised. On day 7 (the gravity was stable for 3 days according to iSpindel) I decided to take gravity reading with a hydrometer and it was at 1.013 (65% AA). The beer tasted fine but I tasted acetaldehyde so I decided to agitate the beer to encourage the yeast to clean up the acetaldehyde (i swirled it gently with that big plastic brewing spoon). After that i purged the headspace of the beer with CO2 and reatached the airlock. Something strange happened after that. According to iSpindel the the gravity started to drop again. I took another gravity sample at day 10 (1.012) and day 16 (1.009). It dropped 4 gravity points in 10 days, 1.009 is 75% AA so still normal attenuation for the given yeast. At day 10 I also noticed that a new small krausen is forming. Now is day 18 and the gravity is still dropping. Have you seen something like that with this yeast (or other english yeast strain)? Is it normal? Or may this be a possible infection with other (wild yeast or diastaticus) yeast?

Last time I used this yeast I was brewing a Special Bitter (OG 1.058, FG 1.017, 70% AA) but it tasted a little bit underattenuated and I think it fermented out a little more after bottling.
 

bierhaus15

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WLP005 is a variant of Ringwood yeast, an oxygen hungry and top cropping Yorkshire strain that is typically roused during fermentation to achieve full attenuation. By agitating the brew, you probably injected some 02 into the beer and mixed the yeast back into the beer, kickstarting fermentation. Some people essentially do the same throughout fermentation to ensure a dry and fully attenuated beer. So nothing really wrong or surprising here; your previous batch probably could have used the same treatment as well.

It also is a big diacetyl producer, so be sure to give the beer a few days at warm temp to clean up the buttery flavor.
 

nameless_one

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Thanks for your reply, this is what I also think is the most probable explanation... the only thing that concerns me is that the gravity is still dropping (and today is the 19th day from the beginning of the fermentation). I hope it will stop soon, then I leave it for another 1 - 2 days to clean up at 22C and transfer the beer to cornys and forcacarb.

Should I rouse it now to help it attenuate completely?
 

nameless_one

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Hi!

Today is day 22 of fermentation. I roused the yeast 3 days ago and raised the temp to 22C. According to iSpindel the beer continued to attenuate. I took a hydrometer sample today, it is now at 1.004 (90% attenuation). The taste is realy green, lot of acetaldehyde. I need to transfer the beer today do corny kegs, any advice how could I salvage this beer? Should I carbonate with addition of dextrose to promote the yeast (to clean up the acetaldehyde)?
 

rmyurick

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Hi!

Today is day 22 of fermentation. I roused the yeast 3 days ago and raised the temp to 22C. According to iSpindel the beer continued to attenuate. I took a hydrometer sample today, it is now at 1.004 (90% attenuation). The taste is realy green, lot of acetaldehyde. I need to transfer the beer today do corny kegs, any advice how could I salvage this beer? Should I carbonate with addition of dextrose to promote the yeast (to clean up the acetaldehyde)?
Are you sure it is acetaldehyde and not fruity esters?
 

nameless_one

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Yeah, pretty sure. I transferred the beer to kegs 9 days ago and added some corn sugar. I tasted the beer yesterday, some acetaldehyde is still present but it is much better than before. Ideally I would let the kegs sit at room temperature for at least another week, but I need to bottle the beer in 3 days, so I am forced to move the kegs to the fridge tonight.
 

rmyurick

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Yeah, pretty sure. I transferred the beer to kegs 9 days ago and added some corn sugar. I tasted the beer yesterday, some acetaldehyde is still present but it is much better than before. Ideally I would let the kegs sit at room temperature for at least another week, but I need to bottle the beer in 3 days, so I am forced to move the kegs to the fridge tonight.
When I worked for a "bigly" Brewer as an engineer, they had an acetaldehyde issue, and knew right away that it was insufficient oxygenation. The stones that sparge in the O2 were inserted the wrong way. A lot of English ale yeasts, however, can give a fruity taste to beer, especially young beer.
 

nameless_one

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Thanks for the reply, next time I use this British yeast I will pay more attention to proper pitch rate and aeration. And maybe try the "semi open" fermentation - with the lid just loosely put on the fermentation bucket.
 

rmyurick

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Thanks for the reply, next time I use this British yeast I will pay more attention to proper pitch rate and aeration. And maybe try the "semi open" fermentation - with the lid just loosely put on the fermentation bucket.
Given the low fg, I wonder if you maybe got some other microbe in there, maybe with the plastic spoon or maybe from a scratch on your plastic fermenter. I would finish the batch & see what it tastes like after a couple weeks.
 

nameless_one

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Given the low fg, I wonder if you maybe got some other microbe in there, maybe with the plastic spoon or maybe from a scratch on your plastic fermenter. I would finish the batch & see what it tastes like after a couple weeks.
well, there is a chance of a cross contamination with yeast from the previous batch. In the previous batch I used WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois, White Labs says it is a "diastaticus" strain. I am realy rigorous about sanitation ( I user paracetic acid ) but a cross contamination with this yeast would be a logical explanation of this long fermentation and very low FG. I could not detect any off-flavors in the taste except the acetaldehyde.
 
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KingBrianI

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I'm just getting back into brewing again after a couple year hiatus and of course I'm back to the british beers. Currently planning to run some experiments on dual (or more)-strain ferments as that is a technique that seems surprisingly underused for british beer given their history. Also seems like a good way to tailor the yeast characteristics more to our liking rather than be tied to the limitations of one strain. For example - I really love the flavor of the Ringwood strain, but I always have a devil of a time getting the bastard to finish. So I'm going to pitch it along with CYA007 (same strain as Wy1335) to help it to dry out. Also really interested in throwing in a tiny bit of a Belgian or german yeast that would produce some isoamyl acetate and some bubblegum esters, as I've noticed them in some English beer at low levels and think it can add to the complexity. Don't really want any phenols, though, so I'm having trouble picking something. That may be a later experiment once I have some experience co-pitching CYA004 (Ringwood) and CYA007 (Wy1335[the dry half of Adnam's dual strain, apparently]). Anyway, lots of interesting stuff coming on that front.

Have also decided that maybe it is oxygen that is killing the malt and ester characteristics of our English beer, at least in part. I still believe letting the fermentation go for too long lets the yeast clean up too much and that a cold crash earlier than later really helps to lock some of those characteristics in. But I'm also remembering all the times that a beer tasted great from the fermenter but lost much of the character after bottling or kegging. Really does seem like the oxygen picked up in transfer could be a major player there. So I've got a fermentasaurus on the way and plan to do this next batch in there, with plans to serve straight from it. Ideally, I'd drink from the fermentasaurus for as long as the batch lasts, but it will keep me from putting anything else in the fermentation fridge so I'll have to cut it short eventually. Looking forward to seeing what an English beer with absolutely no cold-side oxidation will taste like over the first couple weeks, though. Stay tuned.
 

nameless_one

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So to sumarise things up, today I tasted the bottle after 7 days from bottling. The acetaldehyde cleared up significantly, beside that fruity esters dominate the taste. The body is relatively thin. I also measured the gravity, it stopped at 1.0025 which is 93% attenuation. It tastes much better than 7 days ago, but not that good I was hoping for this beer. The most probable explanation for this thin body and realy high attenuation is a cross contamination with WLP644 yeast from previous batch.
 

bierhaus15

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I'm just getting back into brewing again after a couple year hiatus and of course I'm back to the british beers. Currently planning to run some experiments on dual (or more)-strain ferments as that is a technique that seems surprisingly underused for british beer given their history. Also seems like a good way to tailor the yeast characteristics more to our liking rather than be tied to the limitations of one strain. For example - I really love the flavor of the Ringwood strain, but I always have a devil of a time getting the bastard to finish. So I'm going to pitch it along with CYA007 (same strain as Wy1335) to help it to dry out. Also really interested in throwing in a tiny bit of a Belgian or german yeast that would produce some isoamyl acetate and some bubblegum esters, as I've noticed them in some English beer at low levels and think it can add to the complexity. Don't really want any phenols, though, so I'm having trouble picking something. That may be a later experiment once I have some experience co-pitching CYA004 (Ringwood) and CYA007 (Wy1335[the dry half of Adnam's dual strain, apparently]). Anyway, lots of interesting stuff coming on that front.
Nice to see you back on the boards. Per characterful yeast, I've been brewing with a few UK commercial strains I got from NCYC and another UK yeast bank. The difference between the UK banked strains and what we get from WY and WL is striking, even for the supposed equivalent strains. Flavors are generally more complex and most show true top cropping ability. Ever see the Fullers strain produce a krausen like 1469? I suspect some of this is due to the difference in propagation medium and storage (wort v. molasses) and the fact that many of the US equivalent strains were from bottled yeast and not brewery deposited. Worth checking out if you want to take a "deep dive" into British yeast.
 
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KingBrianI

KingBrianI

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Nice to see you back on the boards. Per characterful yeast, I've been brewing with a few UK commercial strains I got from NCYC and another UK yeast bank. The difference between the UK banked strains and what we get from WY and WL is striking, even for the supposed equivalent strains. Flavors are generally more complex and most show true top cropping ability. Ever see the Fullers strain produce a krausen like 1469? I suspect some of this is due to the difference in propagation medium and storage (wort v. molasses) and the fact that many of the US equivalent strains were from bottled yeast and not brewery deposited. Worth checking out if you want to take a "deep dive" into British yeast.
That is great information! I hadn't considered that there might be big differences between the strains maintained by the US yeast companies and the UK yeast banks, but it makes sense! Are there any strains you recommend? I'm really chasing that sweet, fruity, ethereal ester profile I get in some English beer. Very slight banana and bubblegum just at threshold in addition to the previously-mentioned esters. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Most commercial US-sourced strains have been a bit flat in comparison which is why I started thinking about combining strains. Maybe some of the NCYC or UK yeast bank strains can get me there without the hassle of maintaining a multi-strain culture. I'm assuming the other UK yeast bank to which you are referring is Brewlab? I was in contact with them a while back about getting some slants, but somehow I never followed through. In quickly looking at the NCYC website, it looks like the cheapest I could think about obtaining a strain is £85, not including whatever international shipping arrangements I'd need. I'm assuming you have a local source that distributes NCYC-obtained cultures?
 

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This thread is gold

I started brewing a few years before becoming a 7 year expat for a London based firm. I drank a lot of british cask ales. This all makes a lot of sense.

You can go to three different pubs on the same street in London, order a Wells Bombardier at each one and get three different beers. Fresh high volume places are a slice of heaven in a glass. Some are just thin and losing their life others start to turn sour. I've bought loads of store bought ESB, Hobgoblin, London Pride, OSH, Old Peculiar in the UK and the bottled stuff is always a muted cousin of the cask versions.

Seems like these yeasts attenuate forever depending upon O2, FG and temp. For cask ales, they want it to ferment slowly for carbonation and O2 will be introduced with the engines. Makes sense that when you homebrew and bottle you introduce enough O2 and priming sugar to restart a fermentation and change the beer. I would tell you the off flavors that have been described on this thread from bottled beers with 1968 seem pretty familiar to me. Old cask ales. I've had more than one pint I've sent back, and even been warned a few times during the pour to give it back if I don't like it.

Conversely, when you are kegging it at low temps and starving it of O2, it stops and keeps it's profile. Much like high volume pubs that are going through casks regularly.

Have a pale 1469 fermenting now and an ESB recipe in the wings. I had a Timothy Taylor one off summer cask ale in a pub around the corner once and it was fantastic. Blond low abv ale, apples and pears (sound familiar?) with a bright grapefruit finish that was almost Americanish. Going for a cleaner version of this with EKG's and Saaz. I will definitely get the character of the yeast. The sample out of the kettle was the cleanest I've ever done. Malt and hops and nothing else. Not coincidentally, it's the first time I treated my RO water. I'm going to top crop it today, about 36 hours into the ferment. Thanks to this thread, I'm going to make sure I get enough in the jars to repitch.

I can control the ferm temps, but I bottle everything right now, so I'm going to have to figure that part out. I may have to pull out the old corney kegs and get a CO2 setup for it before I do the ESB.

Thanks to the founders of this thread, it's still gold 8 years later.
 

Tribe Fan

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The 1469 Ale is now 2 days in the keg and already fantastic. This wort was exceptionally clean going into the fermenter and it is not disappointing coming out of the keg. Crystal clear, very pale blond. Malt, yeast and hops, in that order, cycle straight through the palette.

86% MO, 6% flaked oats, 6% instant rice, 3% acid malt. EKG's and Saaz to 27 IBU.

This started fermentation at 66F, up to a high of 73 then settled in at 70. I top cropped and discarded the krausen (and the green hop islands) early and top crop harvested at 36 hours. Open ferment in a large mouth wine fermenter with the lid loosely screwed on. I transferred to a keg on day 9 and all of the top cake had floc'd to the bottom of the fermenter. Cold crashed to 45F (as low as I can go) and carb'd to 12 psi.

This beer is already excellent at 12 days old and I cannot wait to continue sampling over the coming weeks. This one will not last long.

Thanks again to everyone on this thread. It really paid off for me.
 

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This is a great thread, and I found it just in time for my most recent bitter. I had a jar of Imperial Pub yeast (Fullers strain) saved from about a year and a half ago in the fridge, and built up a 2 L starter. Oxygenated well and did a semi-open fermentation (lid on loosely until about 1.015 or so, then put it on tight with an airlock and dropped temp to 64°F). It came all the way down to 1.009 (from 1.041, 77% AA) and is hopefully done or close to (coming up on 72 hours post-pitch). The hop bitterness might be overwhelming the malt a bit (I ran into problems with my wort chiller so the wort took a while to cool and probably isomerized some alpha acids in my late additions) but I really like the ester profile that came from fermenting around 68°. I read this entire thread and came up with a couple of questions that weren't really answered in any of the posts. (I realize I'm a little late to the party but hopefully the thread isn't quite dead yet...)

1) When taking gravity samples at the end of fermentation to check for diacetyl and decide when to cold crash, how much should one worry about introducing oxygen? I guess if there's still some yeast activity then O2 could still be scrubbed, but my stance is normally to err on the side of protecting the finished beer from O2 as much as possible at this point. Basically, if my beer is at the tail end of fermenting and I don't detect any diacetyl, is there any reason to keep opening my bucket to take gravity samples before I cold crash?

2) There was some talk about top cropping, and I was wondering if it's worth skimming the top of the krausen to take away the hop debris and other detritus that floats to the top even if one isn't actually harvesting yeast this way (seeing as how the Fullers strain doesn't seem to make a good top cropper). I've read elsewhere that one of the side benefits of top cropping is the removal of these compounds, presumably to avoid the off flavors they might contribute, but wasn't sure if it should be done if there isn't a big thick krausen.
 

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I can try to answer your first question. I do a lot of bottle conditioned beers, and although I don't drink, nor brew IPAs anymore ( except maybe once or twice a year ), I still try to avoid O2 as much as possible. If you are following an established/well working fermentation schedule, your beer is definitely finished fermenting at day 14. You shouldn't really need to open your fermenter and check anything. Diacetyl should be taken care of by day 14 and your beer would've reached FG. If you are cropping the yeast, then you would do that during fermentation, or at least is what I would do. Any O2 that comes in at this step, will certainly be scrubbed out. Also, I will add that once you get to know certain yeast and how they ferment/behave, the necessity of taking gravity samples all the time, will slowly disappear. A 1.050-1.065 beer will never need more than 10-15 days in the fermenter.

I personally only open my fermenter once, and that is bottling day ( except beers I add adjuncts to, like vanilla, oak chips, cocoa beans, etc. ). At that point I take a gravity sample and I bottle. So the beer comes in contact with O2 only one time. It will referment in the bottle and some O2 will go away, or at least is what I like to think. Dark, complex beers do not take damage over time, not even after 9-10 months, so I must be doing something right most times.

Cold crashing can introduce O2 in the beer, unless you take meaures against it. Cold crashing works great with all styles of beer, and I feel it helps beer to become " clearer ", " better " and " more focused ". I am not a stickler for brilliant clear beer, but some styles do look prettier with a certain degree of clarity, especially those with pretty colours, like orange, deep orange, amber, light and dark red, etc.
 

Landlord

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Have also decided that maybe it is oxygen that is killing the malt and ester characteristics of our English beer, at least in part. I still believe letting the fermentation go for too long lets the yeast clean up too much and that a cold crash earlier than later really helps to lock some of those characteristics in. But I'm also remembering all the times that a beer tasted great from the fermenter but lost much of the character after bottling or kegging. Really does seem like the oxygen picked up in transfer could be a major player there. So I've got a fermentasaurus on the way and plan to do this next batch in there, with plans to serve straight from it. Ideally, I'd drink from the fermentasaurus for as long as the batch lasts, but it will keep me from putting anything else in the fermentation fridge so I'll have to cut it short eventually. Looking forward to seeing what an English beer with absolutely no cold-side oxidation will taste like over the first couple weeks, though. Stay tuned.
Welcome back KingbrianI, OP of this great thread...personally I am a bit skeptical that 02 is a big problem for English beers, just because I dont think traditional english breweries have ever done much to exclude oxygen, at least havent been too anal about it. Open fermentations and rousing late in the fermentation cycle presumably mean plenty of O2 getting in before packaging. (plus O2 will be getting into cask ale once its served). However, maybe the traditional process of racking to cask a few points above FG does illiminate O2 in comparison to a cold crash and keg, as you would expect all that extra active yeast and fermentation in the cask to be stripping the beer of any O2?

I suspect that lack of malt depth and esters in homebrew is really because not many of us (including me) are serving from proper casks. I find that bottled and canned versions of uk beers, even fresh from the uk brewery also lack the malt depth and ester character of cask ale. I find that my bottle conditioned bitters are definately better than kegged bitter for sure, but not as good as cask. I am planning on experimenting a bit more to try and make my corny kegs a bit more cask-like, ie proper conditioning in the cask. Maybe even racking a few points above FG, to make sure I have plenty of yeast in contact with my beer. Serving by gravity through the gas hose, and only hooking up a touch of CO2 once I cant get any more out the keg. I really wish someone would manufacture proper steel 1 gallon casks and spiles ect for the homebrewer, I think 5 of those would be ideal for me.

Also I am very excited to hear how your duel strains work out, I have been toying with the idea of doing something similar. There doesnt seem to be any consensus on whether you can repitch once combined, some people suggest you can, and others you cant. Apparantly, the bootleg biology neepah yeast features multiple strains of english yeast, could be worth trying that one?
 

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I know this is a bit of a zombie thread, and I've read the entire thing at one point, but all the Golden nuggets are now buried in 67 pages. So here's a summary of what I'm doing after reading this thread and listening to the master brewers podcast on cask ales, can any of the more experienced folks correct me if I'm wrong here please? My line of thinking is that this is a traditional technique, so trying to get too fancy with the temp control may be counterproductive.

The temp regime should mimic a cask ale temperature profile where it's chilled as cool as the water can go, fermented at some ambient but controlled temperature, transferred to a cask just before fg is reached, dry hopped in the cask, and then conditioned at 54-55F (the key temperature according to the podcast) until consumed. That temperature both allows for final cleanup of undesirable compounds, and dials in carbonation at low PSI to the proper level for cask ale.

So here's my process

-Pick your fravorite English strain, mine are 1968 and 1318

-Pitch an adequate starter of 1-1.5milliom cells per ml per degree Plato

-Pitch at 64F

-Let it free rise to 68F until nearing the end of primary fermentation (about 4-5 days) and Krausen falls

-transfer to packaging while there's still 1-3 gravity points remaining (this is key to keep oxidation down, as well as carbonate)

-dry hop if desired

-Condition at 55F until desired taste and desired carbonation are reached

I prefer to condition in plastic cubitainers so that carbonation is at ~1.5 volumes at ~7 PSI and serve by gravity

Thoughts?
 

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Quick question for you guys based on some of the info I've digested from this thread. Have an ESB that is on Day 8 of fermentation with WLP002. Pitched at 63F and let it rise to 68 throughout the first 1.5 days. Around day 3-4 I was sitting at 1.021, but with a good bit of diacytyl. I did drop the temp down to 66 for a day or two then got nervous and turned it back up to 68. Been there for the last couple of days. Still feel like it has a little bit too much diacytel. I'm going to go ahead and transfer it to a serving keg tonight to get it off the yeast cake. Should I raise the temp higher than 68 in an attempt to get the diacytel to clean up before I cold crash it? Or leave it longer at 68F?
 

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Quick question for you guys based on some of the info I've digested from this thread. Have an ESB that is on Day 8 of fermentation with WLP002. Pitched at 63F and let it rise to 68 throughout the first 1.5 days. Around day 3-4 I was sitting at 1.021, but with a good bit of diacytyl. I did drop the temp down to 66 for a day or two then got nervous and turned it back up to 68. Been there for the last couple of days. Still feel like it has a little bit too much diacytel. I'm going to go ahead and transfer it to a serving keg tonight to get it off the yeast cake. Should I raise the temp higher than 68 in an attempt to get the diacytel to clean up before I cold crash it? Or leave it longer at 68F?
I would transfer to your keg, prime it, and then condition it at 54F for a couple weeks to clean it up, but not too much
 

Argyll Gargoyle

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I just learned of SafAle F2 - a bottle/cask conditioning yeast that preferentially eats simple sugars. Anybody think this could be a way to deal with the bottle conditioning woes of 1968 in this thread?
 

rmr9

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This is one of the greater threads on this site, I’ve read it all in gearing up for my next British ale adventure!

I’ve been thinking about yeast strain selection and handling to improve upon my previous bitters and milds especially as I move exclusively to cask conditioning. In the past I’ve used wy1968 and wlp002 and I’ve definitely experienced the deterioration of bottle and cask conditioned beers using these strains. Namely, they turn into over carbonated cidery/tart disappointments after 3 weeks in bottle or polypin. I would say this happens about 75% of the times I’ve used it. Has anyone experienced the same thing with Imperial A09? My understanding is this is supposed to be the Fuller’s strain as well.
 

Miraculix

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This is one of the greater threads on this site, I’ve read it all in gearing up for my next British ale adventure!

I’ve been thinking about yeast strain selection and handling to improve upon my previous bitters and milds especially as I move exclusively to cask conditioning. In the past I’ve used wy1968 and wlp002 and I’ve definitely experienced the deterioration of bottle and cask conditioned beers using these strains. Namely, they turn into over carbonated cidery/tart disappointments after 3 weeks in bottle or polypin. I would say this happens about 75% of the times I’ve used it. Has anyone experienced the same thing with Imperial A09? My understanding is this is supposed to be the Fuller’s strain as well.
If 09 is called pub, then I never had this. I made my best beer ever with it, it's in the recipe section and called Miraculix Best for a reason :D

I love this yeast!!!
 

rmr9

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Yes A09 is called pub. Maybe I’ll give this one a try with the Fuller’s fermentation schedule from this thread. I know there are quite a bit of differences between the “same” strain from different suppliers so maybe this will work a bit better. I’d sure hate to have a whole pin go south in a hurry!
 

Miraculix

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Yes A09 is called pub. Maybe I’ll give this one a try with the Fuller’s fermentation schedule from this thread. I know there are quite a bit of differences between the “same” strain from different suppliers so maybe this will work a bit better. I’d sure hate to have a whole pin go south in a hurry!
This one is different to wlp 002. I don't like 002, different flavour and fusels above 20c.

But I really love pub. But make sure that you include 10% simple sugars in the grist and mash looooong and low to boost the attenuation.

Also don't go too high regarding og. 1.04 is high enough for the yeast to shine!
 

kmarkstevens

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If 09 is called pub, then I never had this. I made my best beer ever with it, it's in the recipe section and called Miraculix Best for a reason :D

I love this yeast!!!
Where do we find the recipe for Miraculix Best?

According to Suregork, WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 are close but not the same. Unclear the providence of Imperial Pub, but the Imperial founders all came from Wyeast.

I can report that I have done garage comparison "yeast offs" with split batches between WLP002, 1968 & Pub. Multiple times between 002 and Pub. I always preferred Pub. Pub always finished about 2-3 points drier than 002.

rmr9 - Pub has lasted well for me in the bottle.

You might want to watch the WLP Yeast Vault for WLP085. It's a mixed strain of 002 and probably 006 or 007. WLP won't confirm the strains. Anyhoo, I like this a lot and definately prefer over 002. To be honest, I may like it simply because about 3 years ago I was able to visit the white labs tasting room in San Diego for about 15 minutes (just long enough to slam a flight and get a vial of 85). ;)
 

Miraculix

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Where do we find the recipe for Miraculix Best?

According to Suregork, WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 are close but not the same. Unclear the providence of Imperial Pub, but the Imperial founders all came from Wyeast.

I can report that I have done garage comparison "yeast offs" with split batches between WLP002, 1968 & Pub. Multiple times between 002 and Pub. I always preferred Pub. Pub always finished about 2-3 points drier than 002.

rmr9 - Pub has lasted well for me in the bottle.

You might want to watch the WLP Yeast Vault for WLP085. It's a mixed strain of 002 and probably 006 or 007. WLP won't confirm the strains. Anyhoo, I like this a lot and definately prefer over 002. To be honest, I may like it simply because about 3 years ago I was able to visit the white labs tasting room in San Diego for about 15 minutes (just long enough to slam a flight and get a vial of 85). ;)
I made fewer comparisons than you, but can confirm your result with my limited trials.

Here's the recipe, however, I simplified the mash a bit.

 

kmarkstevens

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I made fewer comparisons than you, but can confirm your result with my limited trials.

Here's the recipe, however, I simplified the mash a bit.

Appreciate you sharing, and now I'm gonna be up past my bedtime reading 6 pages! Have already put this in the brewing pipeline.
 

porterguy

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Okay, I admit I jumped to the end of this thread after page 5 questions (although I do plan to finish reading it all). LOVE the info. Perhaps a dumb question...if I cold crash to keep the yeast from cleaning up too much, might that affect the overall carbonation level?
 

Northern_Brewer

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It'll be fine, you really don't need much yeast for cask/bottle conditioning.
 
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