British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

[Erik the Anglophile]

So, noobish brewer thinking about getting to use liquid, english yeast since I am not really pleased with the (lack of) character I get from dry varieties.
My thought is to redo a ESB i made with s-04 when I run out of my few remaining dry packs I will use for some porters and stouts etc where ester character isn't as important as in other styles.
The yeast I'm thinking about is WLP002, and I was just gonna check if I have understood the process of using this yeast somewhat.
As i understand this yeast in particular and liquid english strains in general can sometimes need some persuasion to not stall and attenuate all the way.

The opinions seem to differ whether how advanced the fermentation routines must be, but I am probably good with using variuos sugar in my recipes that don't have a bunch of specialty malt and uses the lower attenuating strains.
pitching the yeast a bit colder than ferm temp,
aeriate well, put it in the FC and let it rise to desired ferm temp and then aeriate again after a few hours
letting it ferment at 18 to just over 20c depending on specific strain
rousing it a couple times a day during the first 4-5 days.
Some say open fermentation is to prefer, I ferment 10L batches in 15L buckets and use S shaped airlocks, wich won't give any pressure to talk about and allow some air exchange, this seems to be enough according to most except the most hardcore technofiles.
Am I missing something or have I somewhat understood it right?

 

[z-bob]

So, noobish brewer thinking about getting to use liquid, english yeast since I am not really pleased with the (lack of) character I get from dry varieties.
My thought is to redo a ESB i made with s-04 when I run out of my few remaining dry packs I will use for some porters and stouts etc where ester character isn't as important as in other styles.
The yeast I'm thinking about is WLP002, and I was just gonna check if I have understood the process of using this yeast somewhat.
As i understand this yeast in particular and liquid english strains in general can sometimes need some persuasion to not stall and attenuate all the way.

The opinions seem to differ whether how advanced the fermentation routines must be, but I am probably good with using variuos sugar in my recipes that don't have a bunch of specialty malt and uses the lower attenuating strains.
pitching the yeast a bit colder than ferm temp,
aeriate well, put it in the FC and let it rise to desired ferm temp and then aeriate again after a few hours
letting it ferment at 18 to just over 20c depending on specific strain
rousing it a couple times a day during the first 4-5 days.
Some say open fermentation is to prefer, I ferment 10L batches in 15L buckets and use S shaped airlocks, wich won't give any pressure to talk about and allow some air exchange, this seems to be enough according to most except the most hardcore technofiles.
Am I missing something or have I somewhat understood it right?

It sounds good to me, but I don't know. I use a bucket with a lid not-snapped-down for a primary for most of my beers (English or not), then add an ounce or two of sugar when I transfer it to a carboy and air lock after the fermentation slows way down. The sugar and the oxygen that I can't avoid adding during the transfer kick-start the yeast again, and that scavenges the oxygen. Then I bottle directly from the carboy without transferring to a bottling bucket. (I individually prime each bottle)

That probably doesn't answer your questions, but you can roust the yeast by giving it a stir when the fermentation slows way down.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I would recommend using Imperia Pub vs WLP002. I've done multiple yeast offs of Pub vs WLP002, and Pub always wins on my palate and at the HBS.

Supposedly even SLP002 is not the true Fullers yeast. I can't find the post by @Northern_Brewer but he explained howWLP002 can't be the real Fuller's yeast as it does not have the marmalade flavors (at ABV 1048 or higher). He linked to the Fuller's head brewer who explained the marmalade flavor. Pub seems to be close but not the same as WLP002 (attentuation is a bit different).

I've got a Pub with First Gold hops maturing in a keg right now. will report back on the marmalade or lack thereof in a few days

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Thanks for replies! I am probably gonna keep it in the same vessel, since I am not to keen on transferring during fermentation.
In the first pages of the thread there seemed to be consensus that if you ferment in a bucket with plenty of headspace the conditions are pretty similair to open fermentation(no pressure, some air exchange) and keeping the lid on or off didn't really produce any notable difference. And keeping it closed feels safer than a open or semi open bucket...
Rousing when the kreuzen goes down makes a bit more sense tbh, to reactivate the yeast and get it back in suspension if it floccs down before being done all the way, suppose this is to be done in conjuncture with gravity readings to be sure it is at all needed?
Imperial yeasts can be a bit tricky to get here in sweden, but I might try the wlp005, since it seems similair to 002 but not as prone to premature floccing and better suited for bottling.

One more thing, I have a spigot at the bottom of my fermenter, for easier transfer to bottling bucket and gravity readings, and had a what I think was wild yeast infection from some beer that got stuck in the nozzle at one sampling and brought some **** with it during bottling.
So I think about taping a plastic cup to the bucket where the spigot is and keeping it submerged in starsan during fermentation, to avoid anything growing there if some beer drops are left after sampling. I also noticed that they are never 100% tight and there will always be a little leakage. Yay or nay?

 

[schmurf]

@Erik the Anglophile, https://shop.humle.se/jast/alejast/flytande/pub-imperial-yeast-a09-ekologisk there you have it.
@kmarkstevens, it's been a while since I had it now, but I never had more prominent marmelade flavour than with Pub and First Gold together... it's about time I do it again soon!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Might try pub, altogh I would prefer a yeast that won't need a diacetyl rest and is not so hard to work with such as 002 or pub, might try 005.

 

[Miraculix]

Might try pub, altogh I would prefer a yeast that won't need a diacetyl rest and is not so hard to work with such as 002 or pub, might try 005.

I never did a diacetyl rest with pub. Always fermented it around 20c anbient temperature without further control and the results were very good that way. It's a very quick yeast btw. I mostly bottled after seven days, although a bit more time in the fermenter certainly doesn't hurt.

In fact, pub was one of the most easy yeasts I brewed with. 002 however, completely different story....

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Been reading around a little more, probably gonna use wlp 002 or 005 for a re-do of my ESB wich is a decent ale with s04 but lacks the depth and complexity from the yeast I look for, as a first go at liquid yeast.
Will pitch slightly colder, ferment at 18-19c until Kreuzen falls down and take a gravity reading, if it's way too high I will arouse(couldn't help myself) the yesst a bit and wait a little, and raise the temp to 20-21c if it is nearing what is a reasonable FG, leave it a couple days and check if the gravity has stabilized.
Do I need to lower the temp for a couple days after the gravity is stable, or can I keep it at the higher end until bottling?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I wouldn't worry too much about the diacetyl thing - a bit of diacetyl is expected in British styles.

Just about every British yeast benefits from rousing during fermentation but again I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'll just keep it the same temp then, check gravity when primary slows down and rouse it a bit if needed, and let it ride for a couple more days after I get a stable FG.

 

[ba-brewer]

Might try pub, altogh I would prefer a yeast that won't need a diacetyl rest and is not so hard to work with such as 002 or pub, might try 005.

005 is one of the few yeasts that had over helming diacetyl for me. I was really disappointed as the starter smelled so nice and was really looking forward to that beer. I bumped the temp at the end of fermentation and did not notice any diacetyl when I kegged but sure was there when I went to drink it. I ended up warming the keg back up and adding an active fermenting beer/yeast to clean it up.

Wyeast 1469 is a decent yeast, fairly consistent as far as attenuation is concerned and clears well on it's own. I think it bringing out malt aroma too.

If you want to rouse, I would start like 24 to 36 hours post pitch, once the yeast starts flocking it is hard to get them back in suspension.

 

[Miraculix]

Been reading around a little more, probably gonna use wlp 002 or 005 for a re-do of my ESB wich is a decent ale with s04 but lacks the depth and complexity from the yeast I look for, as a first go at liquid yeast.
Will pitch slightly colder, ferment at 18-19c until Kreuzen falls down and take a gravity reading, if it's way too high I will arouse(couldn't help myself) the yesst a bit and wait a little, and raise the temp to 20-21c if it is nearing what is a reasonable FG, leave it a couple days and check if the gravity has stabilized.
Do I need to lower the temp for a couple days after the gravity is stable, or can I keep it at the higher end until bottling?

If you can, get Imperial yeast pub instead of 002. You won't need a starter and the flavour is better. 002 gave me strong fusel alcohols, once I fermented it too warm (was my fault...), Pub never did that to my beer.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure 002 is not a bad yeast, it's just a bit more demanding.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I have a temp controlled refrigerator as FC, so keeping temperature where I want it is no problem. As I understand it around 19c is a good temp for most english liquid strains?

 

[rmr9]

If you can, get Imperial yeast pub instead of 002. You won't need a starter and the flavour is better. 002 gave me strong fusel alcohols, once I fermented it too warm (was my fault...), Pub never did that to my beer.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure 002 is not a bad yeast, it's just a bit more demanding.

I’ll second this thought. I’ve tried wy1968, wlp002 and imperial A09 pub. Even though they’re thought to be the “same” I found the A09 to be better in flavor and importantly it holds up better to bottle/cask conditioning. I enjoyed A09 so much that it’s got me wondering if I should even branch out to 1469 for my next bitter or just stick with what worked well.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ll second this thought. I’ve tried wy1968, wlp002 and imperial A09 pub. Even though they’re thought to be the “same” I found the A09 to be better in flavor and importantly it holds up better to bottle/cask conditioning. I enjoyed A09 so much that it’s got me wondering if I should even branch out to 1469 for my next bitter or just stick with what worked well.

Pub is my favourite yeast. Just for the ease of use, I'm going to give the new Lallemand Verdant dry yeast a try. But if I have to choose a liquid yeast, I'm going to have a hard time explaining to myself why I should try something new and unknown when I can have such a great yeast as pub instead.

I'll probably try something else from Imperial yeast one day...

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I usually brew 10 liter batches, could I pitch liquid yeast directly or should I make 1 liter starters for beer up to like 60-65 OG just to be sure and 2 liter starters for stronger beers? will probably decant them if that matters.

 

[ba-brewer]

Hard to tell unless you know the mfg date or use by date.

this is a good yeast calculator, things turn red if out of norms.
Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator