English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Northern_Brewer]

Thinking of making a big stock / barley wine. A bit of brown or black malt for colour, a few pounds of invert sugar, og upwards of 1.100, mainly Goldings varieties of hops and Brett for aging. Bottle up and drink for years to come. Any thoughts?

Some hints :
1877 Whitbread KKK (157 IBU!)

1909 Barclay Perkins KK (6.9%, 112 IBU)

1942 Barclay Perkins KK (4.1%, 52 IBU)

Get a mild out of the second runnings?

(Bushel of Hops order arrived today, first of the 2017 vintage aside from homegrown. Tolhurst pale anyone?)

 

[Hanglow]

You can never go wrong with a **** ton of goldings into a big beer imo

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You can never go wrong with a **** ton of goldings into a big beer imo

"big" is redundant in this sentence.

 

[Hanglow]

True that

 

[JKaranka]

Looks like this beer tries to hit all the boxes. Bitter, dark, heavyish...

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/lets-brew-1917-kidd-stout.html

 

[jcav]

Nice one ^

John

 

[deere322]

Looks like this beer tries to hit all the boxes. Bitter, dark, heavyish...

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/lets-brew-1917-kidd-stout.html

I saw that also, it looks delicious.
But I'm trying to figure out what caramel 1000 L at 1 lb is, insight?

 

[JKaranka]

I saw that also, it looks delicious.
But I'm trying to figure out what caramel 1000 L at 1 lb is, insight?

I think that one is a typo in the quantity. Caramel is often several thousand L and you need just a few grams.

 

[deere322]

I think that one is a typo in the quantity. Caramel is often several thousand L and you need just a few grams.

Makes sense, so it's just for color and nothing else.

I do like the looks of this one and might give it a go when the weather warms so I can brew in the garage.

 

[kmarkstevens]

$65 (US) will get you a 20l Speidel to use as a cask (plus $15 for an LPG regulator and barbs and $10 for a second spigot for the Speidel), or ~4 5-gal cubitainers to use as polypins.

Can you list details of this setup? I have a 20L Speidel but have failed on turning it into a pressure barrel....

 

[dyqik]

Can you list details of this setup? I have a 20L Speidel but have failed on turning it into a pressure barrel....

I put initial details here, where I was just using two standard Speidel spigots - one on the top and one as the tap. I've just started secondary on a newer version using Jaybird's stainless Speidel fittings, as discussed here, to put a ball-lock post and pressure relief valve on the top port and a keg type tap and diptube on the lower port.

 

[z-bob]

Does this discussion include commonwealth beers? I brewed a special bitter a couple of months ago, and used Australian hops. It's really growing on me; I need to brew it again, but maybe use pale ale malt instead of 2-row. Pride of Ringwood would have been a more traditional hop variety, but I had Dr Rudi already.

It was a lower gravity beer than I usually brew, so it took a little getting used to but I like it:

Australian Bitter (4 gallons)

Original Gravity: 1.048
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 4.55%
IBU (tinseth): 34.43
SRM (morey): 6.69

6.25 lb - Pale 2-Row (89.3%)
6 oz - CaraCrystal Wheat Malt 55°L (5.4%)
6 oz - Munich - Light 10°L (5.4%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Dr. Rudi, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Boil for 30 min

YEAST:
Fermentis S-33

The yeast was a pain in the butt. It fermented furiously for 2 days and then stalled. The final beer is good enough it's worth trying again; I think I just need to warm it to about 70° after the krausen falls and hold it there for a week to encourage the yeast to finish. I did that with another beer using T-58 and it worked well.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I put initial details here, where I was just using two standard Speidel spigots - one on the top and one as the tap. I've just started secondary on a newer version using Jaybird's stainless Speidel fittings, as discussed here, to put a ball-lock post and pressure relief valve on the top port and a keg type tap and diptube on the lower port.

Thanks for posting. I'll take another try at this.

 

[JKaranka]

Looks like a decent drinker. OG of 1.054 and 40+ IBU.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/lets-brew-1921-adnams-xxxx.html

 

[deere322]

I'm brewing this one tomorrow with Maris Otter and Belgian Pils fermented with 2124.
Pretty excited since last time I brewed was Jan. 20th. I blame the weather!

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/03/lets-brew-1932-barclay-perkins-draught.html

 

[JKaranka]

I'm brewing this one tomorrow with Maris Otter and Belgian Pils fermented with 2124.
Pretty excited since last time I brewed was Jan. 20th. I blame the weather!

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/03/lets-brew-1932-barclay-perkins-draught.html

Sounds great! I've not had a chance to brew British lager but sounds like you got there right in time for the summer.

 

[JKaranka]

Boom!

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/lets-brew-1956-tennants-no-1.html

 

[deere322]

FYI - Ron has a new book out....

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/07/new-book-sales-rocketing.html

 

[Hanglow]

I had a tour round hook norton recently, one of the very few remaining Victorian tower breweries. The tour was excellent and the brewery was a nice blend of old original equipment and newer, including a little 3bbl pilot kit. I am not much of a fan of their cask beers unfortunately, but their bottled beers, especially their bottle conditioned beers, are good examples imo. They are bottled by marstons I think

Here is a link to an album of pictures I took, let me know if it doesnt work

https://imgur.com/a/onhhngc

some points - they have two mash tuns, an original from the 1890s that has been relined and a larger modern mash tun

similarly they have an original copper copper with a cowl and extraction fan added, also a modern much larger stainless copper

their pilot kit is 3bbl and includes a lagering fv

their yeast is repitched from pale beers only, up to 10 times then they buy in some more and repropogate. their yeast is from 1951. interestingly Harveys yeast is from the same time, although they came from different sources I think (harveys is from John Smiths)

they only stopped using the cooler and steam engine in 2006. The steam engine is still working and they fire it up a couple of times a year.

They have 4 shire horses to deliver cask around hook norton, they deliver once a week, sometimes twice a week. It's mainly used as a marketing device

The shop is on the ground floor of the original maltings, the museum (no pics sorry) is on the first floor up,

They used to have a well underneath the brewery but they had to stop using it for fear of it running dry and pollution. They now have another deeper well to spring water that feeds their brewery.


Their malt is simpsons, they still use a very old two roller mill. plus a modern one. for cooling they use a dairy heat exchanger.

think that's it !

ps their bottled stout, ipa and xmas ale are well worth drinking, but i think the bottling yeast is just s04

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Did you see any invert sugar in their stores or anything interesting like that?

 

[Hanglow]

No, no sugar. The Dixon's enzymic malt was most interesting, as the water in the Cotswolds tends to be very alkaline so breweries there use hydrochloric and/or sulphuric acid to reduce alkalinity. Enzymic malt is a lactic acid malt, so I'm not sure why they use it as I couldn't taste any lactic tang from their beers. I should have asked.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Good stuff. I hope you don't mind reproducing the recipe list here just to avoid any possible issues with image hosting, although it hurts to see the spelling of Maris and Celeia!!!! Use of enzymic is interesting, don't see it nearly as often as one used to - but as you can see from the recipes, they're not using sugar as a major ingredient at least. I don't suppose you caught sight of what colour crystal they use, that would be a useful bit of information for people wanting to clone?

Harvey's got their yeast from John Smith in October 1957 - the British Pure Yeast Company, the main third-party supplier of yeast had just gone pop at that time, so many breweries presumably had the same problem. Are Hook Norton really buying it in, or just repropagating it? They seem to distribute their yeast quite widely, Donnington and Hogs Back are known to use it - or at least have used it in the recent past. A over T is the only HB beer to be bottle conditioned, so that might be a way to get the Hooky yeast, although it won't be at its best after brewing a 9% barleywine!

I've seen it suggested that Marston bottle the Hook Norton filtered beers, but St Austell do the bottle-conditioned ones, I don't know if that's true. The new St Austell facility at Bath would be more convenient.

 

[Hanglow]

flagship and their stout are both bottle conditioned and i think at least one other, but I guess most of theirs arent. The guide said that it is Marston's who bottle their beers but you could be right still. They had a few crystals and brown and chocolate and black too.

Their yeast is banked, so they get a small amount of it, propogate it enough for one brew, reuse that 8 times or so then get in a new small amount of it from whoever they have it stored with and repeat


A member of JBK pointed out that the mild grist must be wrong as well, he also got free yeast from them and had been using it for months, at about 23c

 

[Hanglow]

Slowed down a bit


Nice blog post about Timmy Taylor
https://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html

 

[Hanglow]

I tried a bottle of the burton I brewed august 2017 and added brett c to

It's pretty good. formed a pellicle in the bottle so I put it in the fridge so it would drop out. Brett C evident, not much more carb than at bottling, not much in the way of oxidation and still with a fair amount of bitterness. I can recommend that recipe;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...r-favorite-recipe.472464/page-39#post-8071713

also it stained the inside of the clear champagne bottle a bit brown

 

[Hanglow]

Also A bushel of Hops have a bunch of old hops available again and a few more I've not seen before
https://abushelofhops.co.uk/shop/page/2/

 

[cyberbackpacker]

I'm getting ready to brew this weekend... I have some WY1469 on the stirplate and I cooked up ~500ml/16oz of Invert #1 last night. (pic attached)

I am going to probably brew the 1957 Whitbread IPA or the 1939 Boddington's IPA from Ron's site and hope to be drinking it at this time in two weeks!

 

[ESBrewer]

Nice blog post about Timmy Taylor
https://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html

How would you describe the recipe of Taylor's Landlord? Something like 90% GP, 10% #2 invert sugar, 35IBUs (StyrianG, Goldings, Fuggles), probably no dry hops, 4,3% & FG <1.010? Do they use some crystal/roasted grain here or is it just the syrup, their web site says "with hints of roasted malt"?

Edit. I forgot the following video where they describe Boltmaker. That contains some crystal & amber and probably the grain bill in Landlord won't be so different.

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk...mpion-Beer-of-Britain-winner-Timothy-Taylor-s

 

[Hanglow]

I don't think they use any specialty malts in it. I assumed it was all GP, on their website it says 100% Gp. But it's not as if british brewers have been known to tell porkies once in a while, is it?

But I don't know if the bottled version is the same as the cask version, which is rather unusually .2% stronger than the bottled version. Could that just be a priming sugar increase? I know it's incredibly lively for a traditional cask beer, supposedly needs to vent open for a few days

 

[ba-brewer]

If golden promise is just a variety of barley is it possible that the specialty grains they use were made from that variety. Maybe they toast some base malt, seem unlikely but that thought came to mind.

 

[Hanglow]

I like your thinking

I'm sure a lot of homebrewers can't get the darker colour of the beer using 100% GP base malt... so maybe there is a bit that is darker kilned? they do get it contract grown for them and they use enough that they will get it contract malted for them, so another option is that maybe they simply get a darker base malt overall.

Of course the actual process can affect the colour a lot as well, and the yeast itself affects colour, as far as I know no yeast labs offer the proper TT yeast, which I think is multi strain

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have a vague memory that they used to colour with caramel (like most British brewers - that's as in the sugar, not the malt) but switched to black malt ?in the 90s?

 

[Hanglow]

I suppose if they used black GP then it wouldn't contradict their 100% GP malt claim

 

[ba-brewer]

How do people condition their low to moderate ABV English Ales? I am talking about something in the 4 to 5%ABV range.

I have seen people say they go grain to glass in a week for something like a low ABV dark mild. Is this another USian misconception of about English ales that it should consumed shortly after it finishes fermenting?

I usually start to sample about 2 weeks of kegging my English ales, but don't normally really start drinking until a another week or so more. I am wondering if I should be giving them even more time.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

On Ron's site, and in his books, he speaks to the original "mild" and "keeping" beers. Originally mild meant specifically that it was not aged and consumed young as you say, whereas keeping beers were stored for a period of time before being sent out to the public. From these two types many modern UK beers evolved. (This is a VERY short cliffs notes of things).

So in short, I would say that based on historical accuracy that yes it is common/proper to drink some styles young/"early".

I personally do this with beers sub 5% frequently, but I am also serving these as "real ale" and I think these tend to be ready to drink sooner than the same beer when bottled or kegged (and others have experienced similar results).

My $0.02, but I am just another 'murican!

 

[ong]

I regularly make light and medium crystal malt from GP. Not sure how much difference it really makes — just a fun little tweak.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks @cyberbackpacker for you thoughts. I only keg at the moment so it is good to get your perspective of real ale vs bottled or kegged.

I am trying to figure out how to get more esters in my English ales. I have tried the start low then let rise then drop temp thing, done the loose lid approach but not much difference. I know I am getting ester as I can smell them during fermentation and when I rack the beer off they are present but don't seem to get them in the glass. I have had a few English ales that been slow to kick and those seems to have more esters so that is part of why I asked the question.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'll defer to the Brummies for expertise on mild, but all that 19th century stuff is utterly irrelevant to "modern" mild. Most British homebrewers find that their bitters seem to peak in bottle after about 3 months at cellar temperatures, but the British palate does prefer a slightly older drink in general. Reduce that a bit for keg, a bit more if on cask, add a bit for dark milds being dark, reduce a bit for the lower ABV (<4%) and you're probably looking at a peak after 2 months????

>4.5% ABV is getting into strong territory!!!

 

[Hanglow]

Most casks of bitter have a about a two month use by period as the isinglass, if used, tends to start to break down after that I think. That's from racking. I know Hook Norton have a 6 week date.

I tend to think beers like that I make and bottle are best between 4-6 weeks, after that not so much . But it is personal preference to a degree

 

[kmarkstevens]

Agree with Hanglow, for 1030 OG beers, the sweet spot seems to be 4-6 weeks in the bottle. Drinkable after 2 weeks but better at 4 weeks, and start hitting a sell by date 2 months out.

I'm a noobie at keg conditioning and only have 1 corny. I did do a ordinary bitter and let naturally carbonate/condition for 2 weeks in the keg, and it was really tasty. I need to experiment more. Challenge with just one keg, is that tends to be my "house" 1030 beer (I've got half a dozen mainly English style mild, bitter, porter, pale ale's, etc)