How Did This "Hard water is good for dark ales" myth get started?

[jdc2]

I like to trust John Palmer.

I like Jamil's explanation best. You might get a 30-40 point beer with no water modification. Water modification is what will push you up into the mid to high 40's. Especially for light lagers and darker beers.

Agreed. Water modification is important if you want to duplicate
a style with some precision.
Jim

 

[olllllo]

Smart people would learn from that and move on...
Jim

Wondering if you are capable of following your own advice.

 

[Homercidal]

Sorry, I just had to LOL at the "Uncle Fester" thing. Having met Yooper, and having posted with her many, many times on this forum, I find it extremely insulting, and yet strangely humorous. If you have somehow managed to get her upset at you, then woe be unto you. And shame on you.

I hate myself for even saying this, but if you can't handle holding a discussion about brewing in a civilized manner, then perhaps you should visit some of the other brewing sites. I know The Brewing Network has some very smart folks over there, who would be more than happy to hold discourse about water chemistry.

 

[Grinder12000]

I can't help but notice that your profile lists you as "single".

LOL - Now I see why this thread is still around. THAT was funny!!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

OH - I see wildwest450 has it correct - a troll. I called it - 1st in on page 2 LOL

I called it over a month ago.

 

[Nyxator]

Maybe I can hijack this thread and turn it into something useful. I doubt it, but I'll give it a go.

What is temporary hardness, permanent hardness, and how do they affect residual alkalinity (RA)? Many of the brewers have correctly pointed that mashing pH is effected by RA of the brewing water, which can effect conversion efficiency, but can it also lead to off-flavors?

Did I also read correctly that we all agree that sulfates can lead to harsh bitterness in beer? This was my personal experience, and since my sparging technique did not change (eliminating tannins as a possibility), I can only assume that sulfate was the culprit.

 

[Homercidal]

Maybe I can hijack this thread and turn it into something useful. I doubt it, but I'll give it a go.

What is temporary hardness, permanent hardness, and how do they affect residual alkalinity (RA)? Many of the brewers have correctly pointed that mashing pH is effected by RA of the brewing water, which can effect conversion efficiency, but can it also lead to off-flavors?

Did I also read correctly that we all agree that sulfates can lead to harsh bitterness in beer? This was my personal experience, and since my sparging technique did not change (eliminating tannins as a possibility), I can only assume that sulfate was the culprit.

I think you have it. I am not even sure that I would say that it causes "off flavors" most of the time. I think it usually manifests itself as a lack of certain flavors, or it be a "harshness".

Of course I'm talking about drinking water in general. Some water is just so high in some things that it doesn't taste good plain, and therefore you most likely don't want to brew with it anyway. Very high levels of Magnesium, for example, are said to promote loose stools. That is why Milk of Magnesia is useful for what it is used for.

 

[wildwest450]

Maybe you all should shut your pie holes and stop feeding the trolls. The fact that this thread has not been locked is an embarrassment to HBT. Jesus , how long does a pointless thread need to go on???

Yes, I've had a sh*t ton of beers tonight, but I still make more sense than the OP.:rockin:

 

[Steelers77]

Just one note, Harpoon cannot taste like Sammy Smith. Harpoon is an American IPA and Sammy smith is an English IPA. Not really an important point but it just frustrated me that he used the two beers for his comparison when no matter what water adjustments you make your not going to get one tasting like other due to the fact they have different ingedients, mash schedules, fermentation schedules, ect. Just a thought.

 

[dwarven_stout]

Just one note, Harpoon cannot taste like Sammy Smith. Harpoon is an American IPA and Sammy smith is an English IPA. Not really an important point but it just frustrated me that he used the two beers for his comparison when no matter what water adjustments you make your not going to get one tasting like other due to the fact they have different ingedients, mash schedules, fermentation schedules, ect. Just a thought.

I dunno... I had a ESB from Burton the other night, and it tasted nothing like my Stone IPA. I blame the brewers.