"you won't save money homebrewing"

[jack13]

My crystal ball says we will get better ingredients for less in the future. All I’m saying is that to really answer the question of cost, you can’t be cavalier about what you don’t consider. If I seem zealous about that it’s just that I get excited about Truth and when talking numbers it seems like truth is simple. I’m not invested in this topic particularly, it’s just that it is this type of topic that is deeply intertwined with truth finding processes.

Far out.

 

[bleme]

My crystal ball says we will get better ingredients for less in the future. All I’m saying is that to really answer the question of cost, you can’t be cavalier about what you don’t consider. If I seem zealous about that it’s just that I get excited about Truth and when talking numbers it seems like truth is simple. I’m not invested in this topic particularly, it’s just that it is this type of topic that is deeply intertwined with truth finding processes.

Crystal balls, or any other method of predicting the future, is about as far away from the Truth as you can get.

The TRUTH is that if I sit on the couch, I get paid nothing.

The TRUTH is that if I spend that time brewing instead, I can cancel the cable and save $100/month without even considering how much I am saving on beer. If you consider every little aspect, where does it stop?

If you charge yourself to sleep, that is all fine and dandy for you but you can't go around forcing other people to pay themselves too.

 

[GPP33]

I certainly save money, I can fill a keg for about $30-$50 or I could buy a keg from a local brewery for about $100 to $120. I’ve brewed enough to pay off the equipment investments I’ve made, I however can’t say I’m really money ahead though. Not only have I drank a lot more beer but by taking the time to brew I’ve also missed out on a lot of billable hours which would have earned me significantly more than I save by brewing. Of course on the other side of the coin is the money saved on therapy, brewing keeps me out of the mad house.

 

[Rodent]

brewing keeps me away from the in-laws. that one small feat pays for itself many, many times over ...

- no bail bonds
- no lawyer fees
- no missed days at work (read: unpaid time off) due to being in jail
- no medical bills

need I dig deeper into this hole? I think not

 

[brewbama]

brewing keeps me away from the in-laws. that one small feat pays for itself many, many times over ...

- no bail bonds
- no lawyer fees
- no missed days at work (read: unpaid time off) due to being in jail
- no medical bills

need I dig deeper into this hole? I think not

Touché

 

[Lefou]

To me, it was never really about the money. That's what a job is for.
For me, brewing is more about the creative utilization of leisure time and getting something good out of it. Getting a good beer is the cherry on top of a fun learning process. I've pretty much written the dollar costs off and work out of brewing and concentrated on just enjoying myself and the final results.
How much have I spent? Not enough .... hee hee hee

 

[PADave]

To me, it was never really about the money. That's what a job is for.
For me, brewing is more about the creative utilization of leisure time and getting something good out of it. Getting a good beer is the cherry on top of a fun learning process. I've pretty much written the dollar costs off and work out of brewing and concentrated on just enjoying myself and the final results.
How much have I spent? Not enough .... hee hee hee

Sums up how I feel. I spend as much on water and ice per brew as some claim to spend total. Do I care? No. If I really want a new piece of equipment, I buy it, if it will make my process better. Enjoying what I made and sharing it with others is all that matters.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Sums up how I feel. I spend as much on water and ice per brew as some claim to spend total. Do I care? No. If I really want a new piece of equipment, I buy it, if it will make my process better. Enjoying what I made and sharing it with others is all that matters.

Hmm good point about water and ice. That can add to the cost too. I'm in BC and my ground water's cold enough year round and basically ro water from the tap.

 

[brewcat]

At 60 beers of Lablatts at $40 dollars is .50 cents a beer more than .26 not a dollar. One other thing to consider about equipment is that it isn’t truly a fixed cost. When it takes 2 years to pay off equipment things break, get old, become obsolete. Additionally, looking into my crystal ball says that the price for grain may be different 2 years from now.

I've been using the same brew pot for 10+ years. Most brewing equipment should last a good long while. I might have $2000 invested into equipment after all these years.

Let's say 2 cases of craft beer is $80. I bet 60 beers of Lablatts would be about the same around here. But something like High Life might be $36 or so. If all I drink is High Life I might be losing. But.. If I want craft beer... On the high end I can brew two cases for $40 (includes energy, cleaners, yeast starter, CO2, etc.). Let's say I brew 20 times this year. So I'd save $800. So in two and a half years I'd break even on equipment I've purchased over 10+ years.

It is interesting to think about. I guess I could save even more if I didn't drink at all...

 

[Murphys_Law]

Has it been asked yet...who got into this HOBBY to save money?

 

[Drk93TT]

Im saving so much money

Oh wait I have all of this brewing equipment..... Well Ive had the same igloo mash tun for over 5yrs....

Well... ignoring that and sticking to ingredients wow Im saving a ton! lol

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I've been using the same brew pot for 10+ years. Most brewing equipment should last a good long while. I might have $2000 invested into equipment after all these years.

Let's say 2 cases of craft beer is $80. I bet 60 beers of Lablatts would be about the same around here. But something like High Life might be $36 or so. If all I drink is High Life I might be losing. But.. If I want craft beer... On the high end I can brew two cases for $40 (includes energy, cleaners, yeast starter, CO2, etc.). Let's say I brew 20 times this year. So I'd save $800. So in two and a half years I'd break even on equipment I've purchased over 10+ years.

It is interesting to think about. I guess I could save even more if I didn't drink at all...

Your numbers are closest to the several variations that I’ve crunched for realistic all inclusive costs. A “normal” brewer that was paying close attention to cost I think could follow your model and and break even in 2 years. Also, I think $2000 for an advanced brewer is pretty realistic. Bottling beer brings your equipment cost way down. I don’t keg but I suspect CO2 could be pretty costly if you force carbed every time. Conversely, if you primed your kegs with sugar, I bet a CO2 tank used only for serving and maintaining carb levels would last quite a while.

 

[marc1138]

I didn't get into homebrewing to save money, but I got lucky and scored a lot of equipment on the cheap. Now that I buy in bulk and have everything I need, I save quite a bit.

I got my mash tun cooler used and used a gift certificate from work to buy all the fittings and built it myself. I used another gift certificate to buy my first starter kit. Got a nice kettle from a restaurant supply place, and a burner with yet another gift certificate.

I got a chest freezer/ferm chamber used on Craigslist for super cheap and a kegerator fridge from a buddy at work and got another good deal for all my kegs/tank and fittings online.

I'll add it all up eventually but since I love imported beer I figure my set up will pay for itself very soon if it hasn't already. Even if it hasn't, I LOVE brewing regardless and won't stop anytime soon. I rarely even buy craft beer anymore at all. Mine is way better anyhow ;p

 

[GPP33]

Your numbers are closest to the several variations that I’ve crunched for realistic all inclusive costs. A “normal” brewer that was paying close attention to cost I think could follow your model and and break even in 2 years. Also, I think $2000 for an advanced brewer is pretty realistic. Bottling beer brings your equipment cost way down. I don’t keg but I suspect CO2 could be pretty costly if you force carbed every time. Conversely, if you primed your kegs with sugar, I bet a CO2 tank used only for serving and maintaining carb levels would last quite a while.

Carbonating with CO2 uses way less than purging kegs and pushing beer. It’s still pretty cheap though. I maybe use a couple bucks of CO2 on a batch. You can get into kegging for fairly cheap if you can find a used tank, regulator and keg but once you get a nice new dedicated keezer, a few nice stainless taps, and a fleet of kegs it certainly takes some capital.

 

[bpgreen]

Sure, I was illustrating from a reasonable high cost to a reasonable low cost. The low costs on this thread being bandied about don’t include many hidden costs like CO2, Starsan, PBW, electricity for both brewing and fermentation, driving to the LHBS to pick up your stuff or shipping if you have it mailed. Any number of other things that we discount out of hand when we have these discussions. ABV is certainly another variable and it makes it difficult to compare apples to apples.

All I’m saying is what the OP says. If it is solely your intent to save money brewing your then you can do it, but if you do it the regular way, the way most brewers in the hobby are doing it then you aren’t going to be saving any money.

I think we agree more than we disagree.

I agree with you that one shouldn't get into the hobby to save money.

But I tracked all of my costs (including shipping, taxes, etc). I also included things like my kegerator, co2 refills, equipment that I bought for brewing but ended up using more for cooking.

I also started with prehopped extract kits, so my first batches were a lot costlier.

I dont know what the regular way is, or the way most home brewers do it. I only know how I do it, so that's what I can use for comparison.

For me, if I count all equipment costs, co2 refills, all ingredient costs, and shipping, and everything I could think to track, brewing my own gives me craft beer at a price point comparable to natty ice.

I'm sure there's an impact on my gas and electric bills, but it's negligible enough that i don't notice it. I almost never go above the minimum in water usage, even in summer (my lawn is mostly native grasses), so that's not an issue.

That's a win in my book.

 

[Transamguy77]

So over the last few days I've read over this thread and I can say I have saved money brewing.

I have been brewing for 8 years and I haven't bought any equipment for almost 5, I have spent just over $1700 in what I have, that's a 3 tier stand with keggles, kegerator and 16 kegs, grain mill and all other standard home brew equipment.

So for the last 5 years I'm only spending money on ingredients and propane, I buy in bulk all my grains and hops and I usually use the yeast at least twice. I've done big IPA' s that only cost me $30 for 10 gallons (Well on the east coast anyway) going to have to buy water out here and propane is more and so is my base malt, so maybe $50 for 10 gallons now but I'm also one of those guys that only drinks what I brew. I used to trade people I worked with home brews for commercial beers so I didn't really ever buy beer.

I haven't really worked up the numbers but I know I save money home brewing because since I haven't been brewing as much I get sticker shock now that I'm buying more.

I enjoy home brewing and of all my other hobbies this is my most rewarding because I have something to show for after a brew day and I made what I'm sharing.

 

[Shwagger]

I just spent 42 pesos on grain and 8oz hops for a 2.5 g DIPA amd 4 hop bags. Already had the dextrose. Just grain, dry yeast, hops, and bags.

I remember why I haven't made an IPA in ten years.

 

[Lefou]

Light lagers made with aroma hop and tap water, aged in home-made barrels of porch wood. It's a guaranteed money saver.

 

[NickTheGreat]

No freaking way that I save money brewing. Maybe over enough years and batches to spread out the cost of the kegs and other equipment I'd break even.

But then you have to value your time. Now with two little girls my time is worth quite a bit. It's been a few years since I've brewed proper, but I feel like I could do a brew day in 5 hours. Then another 2 hours for kegging and other cleanup.

Say I buy a really nice beer at $14/sixer. That's 19 cents per ounce. 5 gallon of homebrew works out to $124.44. For 7 hours of work is $17.78 per hour. Not a bad way, I suppose. Far less than my charge-out rate at work!!!

I figure brewing is like any other hobby, it takes money, not makes money.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Substantially, going on vacation vs. brewing, you can heavily discount your time and depending how you brew the cost to spend your time could be a savings. But I would submit that for the majority of brewers, the cost of sitting and watching TV is substantially less than brewing. The cost of your time is what a business calls overhead. Leisure time in your life isn’t compulsory and most of us pay dearly for it. It is worth something in actual dollars. If it wasn’t, companies would not provide paid time off as a benefit. Depending on lifestyle, your free time can be worth more or less. I can choose to ignore that I spent money on my credit card, but at some point I have to go back to work to pay for my time off. If cost of leisure time is irrelevant, then we’d all quit our jobs tomorrow. If you live in your mom’s basement, you might have a point.

Again, you're ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people brew during time they would not be earning money anyway. It's not like we'd all be working 90 hour weeks if we weren't brewing, golfing, watching TV etc. There may be some people like that, but the nominal case is a 40 hour work week with the rest of the time available to do what you enjoy. People always have the option to work more hours, or take on a second job. Very few do and I know for me, my free time is much more valuable than the money I'd earn with a second job.

There's an opportunity cost to leisure time to be sure, but for most of us, that "expense" is a given regardless of how we use it. If any given person wants to work more, but doesn't in favor of brewing, the opportunity cost is there as a tangible cost. That would be an extreme minority. The vast majority aren't making that swap.

 

[jack13]

Again, you're ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people brew during time they would not be earning money anyway. It's not like we'd all be working 90 hour weeks if we weren't brewing, golfing, watching TV etc. There may be some people like that, but the nominal case is a 40 hour work week with the rest of the time available to do what you enjoy. People always have the option to work more hours, or take on a second job. Very few do and I know for me, my free time is much more valuable than the money I'd earn with a second job.

There's an opportunity cost to leisure time to be sure, but for most of us, that "expense" is a given regardless of how we use it. If any given person wants to work more, but doesn't in favor of brewing, the opportunity cost is there as a tangible cost. That would be an extreme minority. The vast majority aren't making that swap.

Yeah, if I suddenly stopped brewing, my salary would not change by a cent. I guess I'd have more time for a second job, but I sure as hell wouldn't get one.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I know for me, my free time is much more valuable than the money I'd earn with a second job.

I know what you mean. Almost seems like you have to consider that in the cost.

Just because the 40 hour week is the standard doesn’t mean you have to have to work 40. Until recently at my job it was compulsory to work 50. That reduction of my free time put it at a premium and I would have given a substantial amount of overtime to have it back. I know that it’s an abstract concept, but in our leisure time we are being paid anti-money to live, unless you have some other economy like basement troll, dirtbag or river rat. Conversely if you homebrew instead of flying airplanes, yachting, hookers and blow, then you save fistfuls of money.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I know what you mean. Almost seems like you have to consider that in the cost.

Just because the 40 hour week is the standard doesn’t mean you have to have to work 40. Until recently at my job it was compulsory to work 50. That reduction of my free time put it at a premium and I would have given a substantial amount of overtime to have it back. I know that it’s an abstract concept, but in our leisure time we are being paid anti-money to live, unless you have some other economy like basement troll, dirtbag or river rat. Conversely if you homebrew instead of flying airplanes, yachting, hookers and blow, then you save fistfuls of money.

I fly to my yacht then enjoy hookers and blow while I'm brewing!

 

[ancientmariner52]

I fly to my yacht then enjoy hookers and blow while I'm brewing!

Your yacht is an aircraft carrier? D@mn, boy!

 

[NitrogenWidget]

If you can find it, check out Tank Puncher by ReUnion. They're out of Coralville, IA. Good chit, mang.



On the topic of brewing to save money - I think that if you ONLY drink your own beer and no commercial beer, then you would likely save money, especially if you had a cheap n' easy brew system. But I, like most of us, also like to buy commercial beer to change it up when I'm tired of my own beer. There is no saving money in the hobby of being a beer enthusiast.

i didn't start brewing to save money.
Though my keggerator setup cost more than my BIAB setup. even with the free commercial keggerator.

I still buy some craft beers but not alot.
I have 5 different beers on tap and am ok drinking those for the most part.

I fly to my yacht then enjoy hookers and blow while I'm brewing!

so do you mash and boil on the yacht or the helicopter?
ferm chamber in the captains quarters?
Do you make the hookers bottle?

 

[beernutz]

Has it been asked yet...who got into this HOBBY to save money?

Well I justified my initial expenses to my wife many years ago with the claim that we'd save money. There may have actually been true for a few years early on but I don't even try to sell that BS to her anymore, nor does she care anyway. Just celebrated our 30th anniversary in April.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Well I justified my initial expenses to my wife many years ago with the claim that we'd save money. There may have actually been true for a few years early on but I don't even try to sell that BS to her anymore, nor does she care anyway. Just celebrated our 30th anniversary in April.

I am pretty much on the same program (32 years in!). I don’t think I’ve ever asked her or told her about beer expenses. I’m not trying to be rude to her or hide stuff...she just doesn’t care.

Now I’m thinking of upgrading our travel trailer and I’ll run that purchase by her first. [emoji1]

 

[Hanglow]

I've saved loads of money homebrewing. It's 1/5th the cost of equivalent priced beers in the offtrade . the time/cost of labour is moot as it's a hobby and I only use basic equipment. Love the hobby even if i haven't managed to brew for a few months now

 

[aprichman]

I don't buy anything but hops in bulk and almost any style is going to cost me under $30 a batch to make and some styles closer to $20. Craft beer costs around $18+ a 12 pack (with deposit) from the big players up here (Deschutes, Hop Valley, Ninkasi, Sierra Nevada, etc.)

If you want to drink beers from breweries that only release bombers that same amount could easily be $30+

My equipment costs are pretty reasonable. I have a nice Spike kettle, a nice burner with leg extensions, I BIAB, and have 5 kegs with the ability to have 4 on tap, a fermentation chamber, etc. Needless to say it's a pretty advanced setup and much more than anyone needs for making beer and all of that cost me probably no more than $1,000.

From my calculations I easily save $15 a gallon compared to buying 12 packs and bombers, even including costs like propane, cleaners, sanitizer, and CO2.

I don't brew beer to save money, I brew beer because I really enjoy it. It's a neat skill to have and a hobby that can be enjoyed by friends and family. However, I think I've definitely gotten to the point where I've broken even which is just an added perk.

 

[Conehead]

I just paid $10.00 for a glass of Guinness last night at a pizza joint. Nuff said, and they won't be seeing me again.

 

[Lefou]

Ten bucks for a glass of stout that isn't imported OR craft is just ridiculous.

Same stuff happened to me in Georgia some years back. After a drive from DC to Savannah I stopped to have some dinner near Hinesville around 5PM or so. The canned beer was about two or three dollars and I got one with food. When the server wandered by, I asked for a second. Big spender, yeah, right ...
After 6PM the price for the second beer went up to SIX BUCKS for the same damned can of beer. Too bad I found out AFTER I got the bill. It was like being mugged, only without the knots on your head.

SO when I hear schnitt like this, or a 15 dollar living wage, I expect restaurants that have low volume sales and profit margins to sink like a stone ... so if you need a reason to brew, there you have it. It's a big reason Founders has started to market their Solid Gold lager - they know there are folks out there who want craft beer but not at outright ridiculous prices.

 

[OpenSights]

I just paid $10.00 for a glass of Guinness last night at a pizza joint. Nuff said, and they won't be seeing me again.

I hear ya. That’s why I hardly drink at a bar or restaurant. That’s a very good point! If you do drink out I would say home brewing definitely saves money. My house is in walking distance to a few good restaurants. Always order to go.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I don't buy anything but hops in bulk and almost any style is going to cost me under $30 a batch to make and some styles closer to $20. Craft beer costs around $18+ a 12 pack (with deposit) from the big players up here (Deschutes, Hop Valley, Ninkasi, Sierra Nevada, etc.)

If you want to drink beers from breweries that only release bombers that same amount could easily be $30+

My equipment costs are pretty reasonable. I have a nice Spike kettle, a nice burner with leg extensions, I BIAB, and have 5 kegs with the ability to have 4 on tap, a fermentation chamber, etc. Needless to say it's a pretty advanced setup and much more than anyone needs for making beer and all of that cost me probably no more than $1,000.

From my calculations I easily save $15 a gallon compared to buying 12 packs and bombers, even including costs like propane, cleaners, sanitizer, and CO2.

I don't brew beer to save money, I brew beer because I really enjoy it. It's a neat skill to have and a hobby that can be enjoyed by friends and family. However, I think I've definitely gotten to the point where I've broken even which is just an added perk.

If you are paying 18 dollars a twelve pack and saving 15 dollars a gallon making homebrew, then each five gallon batch of beer would cost you $3.75 to make “propane and supplies included”. Do you even math bro?

 

[moots]

I enjoy this hobby. Am I saving money? probably not. I have been able to keep more of my home brew on hand and do drink that more. But, I am more willing to try new beers that I see in a store, or taproom. So for me I think it has equaled itself out.

 

[aprichman]

If you are paying 18 dollars a twelve pack and saving 15 dollars a gallon making homebrew, then each five gallon batch of beer would cost you $3.75 to make “propane and supplies included”. Do you even math bro?

I'll show my math. Before I stared homebrewing I would usually get a few bombers and a 6 pack every week. That comes out to about a beer every night for my wife and I.

1 batch homebrew = ~5 gallons = $25 therefore ~1 gallon = $5
12 pack = ~1 gallon = $18
6 bombers = ~1 gallon = $30


(1/2 * 12 pack) + (1/2 * 6 bombers) = ~ 1 gallon = $24

Every gallon of beer is ~$19 cheaper - $2 batch for CO2 - $2 batch for propane - $2 batch for cleaners and sanitizers = ~$13 gallon cheaper

If you drink Miller High Life you wont save as much as me but I'm basing this off my personal drinking habits.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I'll show my math. Before I stared homebrewing I would usually get a few bombers and a 6 pack every week. That comes out to about a beer every night for my wife and I.

1 batch homebrew = ~5 gallons = $25 therefore ~1 gallon = $5
12 pack = ~1 gallon = $18
6 bombers = ~1 gallon = $30


(1/2 * 12 pack) + (1/2 * 6 bombers) = ~ 1 gallon = $24

Every gallon of beer is ~$19 cheaper - $2 batch for CO2 - $2 batch for propane - $2 batch for cleaners and sanitizers = ~$13 gallon cheaper

If you drink Miller High Life you wont save as much as me but I'm basing this off my personal drinking habits.

I agree that a twelve pack is close to a gallon. So are 6 bombers. But they aren’t exactly a gallon and when you adjust the money value using your numbers the cost is $22.43 a gallon, adjusted for the savings is $17.43 adjusted for supplies, the new value is $11.43. $11.43 in my book is not easily $15, but to be fair I think you over estimated supplies. That aside, my point is that the numbers are the numbers and we tend to do the math to fit our feelings and beliefs. Personally, my beer is worth far more to me than the cost to make it, even if I include a nominal amount for my time. I can’t buy my beer at the store. The law of supply and demand would require me to pay quite a lot for my beer. I get about 18 bottles per batch and if I could magically get the learning, fun and other benefits from purchasing my own beer without actually having to make it, I think I would pay 2 dollars a beer or more depending on what I made. Thing is, I can’t tell people that I’m saving money because I homebrew based on how I value my beer. They have to value my beer as much as I do, which in my experience isn’t the case. A lot of the responses talk about making comparable beer to store bought beer. I know a guy who will only drink Coors Light. I think that what draws him to Coors Light is that is is basically unoffensive and the brand fits his image. For that guy, your $5 a gallon beer is far worse than his $7 a gallon beer.

 

[Murphys_Law]

This thread makes me want to buy something expensive and shiny!

 

[Lefou]

This thread makes me want to buy something expensive and shiny!

If you do, buy a nice Unitank!
That way I can safely look at yours sooner without having to worry about being buried in mine later when the wife finds out.

 

[aprichman]

I agree that a twelve pack is close to a gallon. So are 6 bombers. But they aren’t exactly a gallon and when you adjust the money value using your numbers the cost is $22.43 a gallon, adjusted for the savings is $17.43 adjusted for supplies, the new value is $11.43. $11.43 in my book is not easily $15, but to be fair I think you over estimated supplies. That aside, my point is that the numbers are the numbers and we tend to do the math to fit our feelings and beliefs. Personally, my beer is worth far more to me than the cost to make it, even if I include a nominal amount for my time. I can’t buy my beer at the store. The law of supply and demand would require me to pay quite a lot for my beer. I get about 18 bottles per batch and if I could magically get the learning, fun and other benefits from purchasing my own beer without actually having to make it, I think I would pay 2 dollars a beer or more depending on what I made. Thing is, I can’t tell people that I’m saving money because I homebrew based on how I value my beer. They have to value my beer as much as I do, which in my experience isn’t the case. A lot of the responses talk about making comparable beer to store bought beer. I know a guy who will only drink Coors Light. I think that what draws him to Coors Light is that is is basically unoffensive and the brand fits his image. For that guy, your $5 a gallon beer is far worse than his $7 a gallon beer.

Even saving $11.43 a gallon means I'm spending almost $600 a year less on beer. I think most people who have similar drinking habits as me can easily save money by making beer about once a month. I would argue the only hard part is learning how to brew good beer which takes some time and money. Once you get over that hump you're pretty much golden.

I agree that some people drink cheaper beer and enjoy it but personally I enjoy styles that you can only get from craft breweries or international breweries which is more expensive to buy.

 

[bleme]

I just paid $10.00 for a glass of Guinness last night at a pizza joint. Nuff said, and they won't be seeing me again.

You definitely need a better pizza place. I paid $5 for a 28oz mug of Enjoy By last night!