Yeast Cake from dry yeast?

[hiphoppotamuss]

I’ve heard conflicting opinions on pitching onto a dry yeast cake?

I was planning on doing a low gravity, Helles with 34/70 and then brew a high gravity double Bock to pitch on the yeast cake? Any thoughts on reusing the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter with dried yeast.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Treat that yeast cake just like you would liquid yeast. Dry yeast on its first fermentation may not need oxygenation or aeration, but liquid does.

 

[odie]

all my yeasts are dry. I harvest and re-pitch on those yeast cakes all the time.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ve heard conflicting opinions on pitching onto a dry yeast cake?

I was planning on doing a low gravity, Helles with 34/70 and then brew a high gravity double Bock to pitch on the yeast cake? Any thoughts on reusing the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter with dried yeast.

If you manage to dump the wort directly onto the yeast cake without much time in between, you don't need to do anything special. Just throw the wort on it, the cell count is high enough. If you plan to store it for longer than a day, I'd do a starter with a portion of it.

 

[lumpher]

I've done what you're talking about many times. Works very well.

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

Excellent!! Good to know.

 

[bellhp]

Or save it in a jar in the fridge till you are ready to use it ... I've been doing that lately ... no problemo.

 

[Miraculix]

Or save it in a jar in the fridge till you are ready to use it ... I've been doing that lately ... no problemo.

With a starter, it works. Without, it's Russian roulette.


..... Don't ask me how I know....

 

[duncan_disorderly]

With a starter, it works. Without, it's Russian roulette.


..... Don't ask me how I know....

One day seems a very strict regime! I tend to pitch yeast from the fridge if it's less than two weeks old, make a vitality starter if it's 2 to 4 ish weeks, and make a full starter if older than that. Not optimal but it works well enough for me.

If I buy liquid yeast I always make a starter with it. Definitely Russian roulette not to, in my opinion.

I do think this issue, yeast health, is a key aspect of brewing. It feels like a lot of home brewers pay huge amounts of attention to wort production, building water profiles, sanitation, oxygenation and fermentation temperature control but pitch yeast that's not in optimal condition. I dont have any fancy oxygenation equipment but I'm not sure how much benefit I'd get. (I brew session beers with pretty healthy yeast and manual aeration and all seems well).

I've used dry yeast strains (often repitched) mostly in recent years but I've recently converted back to liquid. One of the reasons I've gone back is because I no longer see the advantage of no yeast starter as an advantage. Why pitch dried yeast from a packet if you can pitch fresh yeast from the fridge via a starter or vitality starter? (I realise not everybody can). And why make a starter with dry yeast if you can make one with any yeast you can get hold of? There are some good dry yeasts now, but nothing that is quite a match for the English and Belgian strains I'm using IMO. And I reuse it, at negligible cost. I've acquired some strains from bottle swaps. My budget is tight. I'm tight!

I've currently got 3 English and 3 Belgian strains in my fridge which I just harvest into small containers and make starters with. 6 yeasts is probably not sustainable really but stepped starters work with pretty old yeast.

And the Belgian strains seem very hardy. I've had 644 that I got from a bottle of home brew for 4 years and it still behaves great. 3711 I've had about 2 years, same. These two just keep coming back to life and doing the same thing, repeatedly.

(I've got carried away here, apologies to the OP for straying)

https://www.beerandbrewing.com/amp/the-giga-guide-to-harvesting-and-re-pitching-yeast/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/vitality-starters.689064/

 

[Miraculix]

One day seems a very strict regime! I tend to pitch yeast from the fridge if it's less than two weeks old, make a vitality starter if it's 2 to 4 ish weeks, and make a full starter if older than that. Not optimal but it works well enough for me.

If I buy liquid yeast I always make a starter with it. Definitely Russian roulette not to, in my opinion.

I do think this issue, yeast health, is a key aspect of brewing. It feels like a lot of home brewers pay huge amounts of attention to wort production, building water profiles, sanitation, oxygenation and fermentation temperature control but pitch yeast that's not in optimal condition. I dont have any fancy oxygenation equipment but I'm not sure how much benefit I'd get. (I brew session beers with pretty healthy yeast and manual aeration and all seems well).

I've used dry yeast strains (often repitched) mostly in recent years but I've recently converted back to liquid. One of the reasons I've gone back is because I no longer see the advantage of no yeast starter as an advantage. Why pitch dried yeast from a packet if you can pitch fresh yeast from the fridge via a starter or vitality starter? (I realise not everybody can). And why make a starter with dry yeast if you can make one with any yeast you can get hold of? There are some good dry yeasts now, but nothing that is quite a match for the English and Belgian strains I'm using IMO. And I reuse it, at negligible cost. I've acquired some strains from bottle swaps. My budget is tight. I'm tight!

I've currently got 3 English and 3 Belgian strains in my fridge which I just harvest into small containers and make starters with. 6 yeasts is probably not sustainable really but stepped starters work with pretty old yeast.

And the Belgian strains seem very hardy. I've had 644 that I got from a bottle of home brew for 4 years and it still behaves great. 3711 I've had about 2 years, same. These two just keep coming back to life and doing the same thing, repeatedly.

(I've got carried away here, apologies to the OP for straying)

https://www.beerandbrewing.com/amp/the-giga-guide-to-harvesting-and-re-pitching-yeast/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/vitality-starters.689064/

I agree 100%. The one day rule basically comes from me leaving the yeast in the fermenter without any cleaning, between bottling the previous batch and dumping the new wort in.

I wouldn't want to leave a fermenter standing like this, with yeast inside and a tiny bit of rest beer for longer than let's say 12 hours. Meaning the latest I brew the second batch would be the next day at a similar time.

I've had a lot of problems when trying to directly use some English yeast slurry, even when not so old. That's why I'm not doing the storage thing anymore. I know that it can be done, but for me it's a starter, once the yeast left the fermenter. .... But this actually happens very rarely nowadays.

 

[madscientist451]

I’ve heard conflicting opinions on pitching onto a dry yeast cake?

I was planning on doing a low gravity, Helles with 34/70 and then brew a high gravity double Bock to pitch on the yeast cake? Any thoughts on reusing the yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter with dried yeast.

I've done it, my 2 cents would be to swirl up the yeast and remaining beer and dump it into a clean fermenter, or some sanitized jars and then clean the fermenter before use. I've re-used a fermenter without cleaning from the first batch and nothing bad happened, but I was wondering about it the whole time. You could also save some of the slurry from batch #1 in a jar in the 'fridge and then make a starter for a third use. It all depends on how frugal you want to be and how much extra work you are willing to do.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I agree 100%. The one day rule basically comes from me leaving the yeast in the fermenter without any cleaning, between bottling the previous batch and dumping the new wort in.

I wouldn't want to leave a fermenter standing like this, with yeast inside and a tiny bit of rest beer for longer than let's say 12 hours. Meaning the latest I brew the second batch would be the next day at a similar time.

I've had a lot of problems when trying to directly use some English yeast slurry, even when not so old. That's why I'm not doing the storage thing anymore. I know that it can be done, but for me it's a starter, once the yeast left the fermenter. .... But this actually happens very rarely nowadays.

Ah ok. I never pitch into the same fermenter again.

What happens very rarely? Storing yeast taken from a fermenter? Do you not store yeast at all?

To answer the OP. I have used the cake from a dry yeast many times, but usually with a proportion of the yeast slurry transferred to the fresh wort in a clean fermenting bucket. I've added the fresh wort into the used fermenter a few times and not had a problem though.

 

[Miraculix]

Ah ok. I never pitch into the same fermenter again.

What happens very rarely? Storing yeast taken from a fermenter? Do you not store yeast at all?

To answer the OP. I have used the cake from a dry yeast many times, but usually with a proportion of the yeast slurry transferred to the fresh wort in a clean fermenting bucket. I've added the fresh wort into the used fermenter a few times and not had a problem though.

I think you might have misunderstood me?

I almost exclusively throw the wort directly onto the yeast cake without cleaning the fermenter or anything in between. IF I reuse yeast.

Very rarely happens me storing yeast slurry. I try using it directly, otherwise down the drain it goes.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I think you might have misunderstood me?

I almost exclusively throw the wort directly onto the yeast cake without cleaning the fermenter or anything in between. IF I reuse yeast.

Very rarely happens me storing yeast slurry. I try using it directly, otherwise down the drain it goes.

That is what I thought you meant. I'm surprised cos storing is good. You just have to make starters. And starters are possibly the best way to pitch yeast. For me at least. Freshly propagated yeast in a more measurable quantity, determined by the volume and gravity of the starter wort.

 

[Miraculix]

That is what I thought you meant. I'm surprised cos storing is good. You just have to make starters. And starters are possibly the best way to pitch yeast. For me at least. Freshly propagated yeast in a more measurable quantity, determined by the volume and gravity of the starter wort.

I agree, that's why I take special care that my previous beer is my starter .

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I agree, that's why I take special care that my previous beer is my starter .

So you use the same yeast strain continuously?

 

[hottpeper13]

I have a bitter (1.040) on day 2 with Notty ,direct pitch on top of wort. It's basically a 5 gal starter for my 13% RIS that's going into a barrel. Since I'm not saving any yeast for another beer I'll just rack the RIS into the fermenter so I only have to clean the BK.
I keg the bitter then rack the wort in less then an hour, i agree with same day if racking on top.

 

[Miraculix]

So you use the same yeast strain continuously?

No, usually not. But if I want to brew another beer directly after bottling one, then I sometimes do this. I think I did this up to two or three cycles until now.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

No, usually not. But if I want to brew another beer directly after bottling one, then I sometimes do this. I think I did this up to two or three cycles until now.

Are you saying you don't trust liquid English strains for repitching? Unless it's directly onto a yeast cake?

 

[Miraculix]

Are you saying you don't trust liquid English strains for repitching? Unless it's directly onto a yeast cake?

I have tried storing sludge in a glass in the fridge with Imperial yeast pub and wlp002 and both failed after only a short time (without a starter). So I can only speak about these two which are also heavily interrelated.

If you do a starter, different story!

Now that I'm writing this, I remember that wlp800 also failed, which is a lager yeast.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I have tried storing sludge in a glass in the fridge with Imperial yeast pub and wlp002 and both failed after only a short time (without a starter). So I can only speak about these two which are also heavily interrelated.

If you do a starter, different story!

Now that I'm writing this, I remember that wlp800 also failed, which is a lager yeast.

Ah ok. I do starters. I like doing starters. Starters are the future! And the present. Various benefits. Cheap yeast good yeast.