Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison - they were right!

[weremichael]

Relax my brother-


I gently kicked mine up to 85 and let it sit there for almost 6 weeks. 4.5 weeks into it i did give the fermentor a gentle swirl to kick the yeast up and at the time it was sitting at 1.022.

Over the next 10 days it kicked ass all the way down to 1.0055


Soooo delicious!

I am a day less than a month into my saison it has been at 1019 for four days. Today, I decided it needed a gentle reminder of who's in charge, so I gave it a pretty strong swirl (a child services social worker might call it a shake). I am going to give it a week to drop some gravity points before I call in the French Saison or good old 1054 to clean things up. It's tasting pretty yummy as it is now. I can't wait for it to dry out.

 

[Picobrew]

I am a day less than a month into my saison it has been at 1019 for four days. Today, I decided it needed a gentle reminder of who's in charge, so I gave it a pretty strong swirl (a child services social worker might call it a shake). I am going to give it a week to drop some gravity points before I call in the French Saison or good old 1054 to clean things up. It's tasting pretty yummy as it is now. I can't wait for it to dry out.

I had a similar experience. It didn't drop after swirling. I used notty, which is only $2/pack, for 2 extra weeks, and it turned out excellent. One of my favorite beers.

 

[SavageSteve]

Well, I'm officially calling it at 1.010. It tastes great, although it seems like the tartness is a bit sharper and the hop bitterness is more pronounced. It's probably just from the yeast leaving the scene-- I bet it'll mellow after some conditioning.

Time to chill it, keg it, carb it and drink it! Oh, and send it off to the competition.

-Steve

 

[Revvy]

Glad it got down.

This thread was a great read, watching it count down to done-ness.

 

[SavageSteve]

Glad it got down.

This thread was a great read, watching it count down to done-ness.

So am I! I think only my first brew ever and my first lager ever were as interesting as this one. To be honest, though, I think next time I'll go with 3711-- I don't think I have the patience for another ferment like this!

-Steve

 

[SavageSteve]

I put the carboy in the refrigerator a few days ago to settle the yeast out.

*Sigh*...

There's barely an inch of clear beer at the top-- the rest is still hazy with yeast. Once a slow yeast, always a slow yeast.

Unless this beer wins an award or somehow gets me rich off my a$$, I am never using this yeast again. Total PITA.

But it does taste pretty good so far...

-Steve

 

[ChshreCat]

probably a bad time to tell you what my saison with 3711 looks like right now, huh?

 

[SavageSteve]

probably a bad time to tell you what my saison with 3711 looks like right now, huh?

What, you haven't finished drinking it all by now?

-Steve

 

[user 15951]

a few things.... i brewed mine about 6 weeks ago, jz's recipe. OG was 1.062, huge slurry pitched at 68 degrees, then i let it go up to about 78 for a week. checked it, it was at 1.035, so i broke out the heating blanket and let it get above 80. checked 2 weeks later and it was at 1.020. a week later it was at 1.011. i decided to be patient and REALLY try to dry this one out. i kegged it last night at 1.002.

also, per the BJCP style guidelines, haziness is acceptable in this style, so unless you REALLY want it clear, don't worry about it, drink up

 

[ChshreCat]

What, you haven't finished drinking it all by now?

-Steve

I haven't bottled it yet! I got invaded by fruit flies and didn't want to crack the airlock with those little buggers around. They're about gone now and I might bottle over the weekend.

 

[LakeErieBrew]

An update on my Saison brewed on 8/16:

Now sitting pretty at 1.004. The hydro sample tastes magnificent. I may have to pull another sample in a minute... You know, just to make sure the gravity reading is correct.

 

[SavageSteve]

i decided to be patient and REALLY try to dry this one out. i kegged it last night at 1.002.

also, per the BJCP style guidelines, haziness is acceptable in this style, so unless you REALLY want it clear, don't worry about it, drink up

I'm sure if I was more patient, it might have gotten lower, but honestly, it tastes very good right now, and I think it's dry enough for style and my tastes.

Regarding the haze, I'm fine with some haziness, and no doubt it will be, but there's haziness and then there's haziness. I'm just trying to get the majority of the massive colony of yeast to drop out. It's clearing better now that I have it in my proper freezer instead of the kitchen refrigerator.

-Steve

 

[user 15951]

I'm sure if I was more patient, it might have gotten lower, but honestly, it tastes very good right now, and I think it's dry enough for style and my tastes.

Regarding the haze, I'm fine with some haziness, and no doubt it will be, but there's haziness and then there's haziness. I'm just trying to get the majority of the massive colony of yeast to drop out. It's clearing better now that I have it in my proper freezer instead of the kitchen refrigerator.

-Steve

i've kegged mine the other night and it's been at 40psi for about 36 hours to carb. i gave it a good shake last night and poured a sample.... yeah, uber yeast. i'm going to check the carb tonight and then most likely drop in some gelatin to clear up a lot of that yeast. taste delicious though.

 

[SavageSteve]

Just tasted the finished beer a few minutes ago.

It is very nice.

Probably could have been a bit drier-- it's at the top end of the range of FG for the style-- but it tastes really good. Carbed it to about 3 volumes, which brings a nice creaminess to the table to compliment the beer's tart crispness.

I feel good.

And it only took seven short weeks.

-Steve

 

[magnj]

I have had the same experience, but I read this thread ahead of time. I figured after the krausen starts to drop I'll bring it upstairs and it will really get going. Of course this week was actually cold in NJ and it looks like it probably stalled though I haven't taken a reading yet.

 

[Cookiebaggs]

I won't be using this yeast again. Way too much of a PITA. 4 weeks and I'm at 1.015. I've been agitating it. It might be time to warm it up and see what happens.

 

[SavageSteve]

I won't be using this yeast again. Way too much of a PITA. 4 weeks and I'm at 1.015. I've been agitating it. It might be time to warm it up and see what happens.

What temperature do you have it at? I didn't see resumed activity in mine until I got it up to 85 deg. F. after the initial stall at 1.035.

-Steve

 

[Saccharomyces]

When I used this yeast it ripped through primary fermentation in 4 days from 1.063 to 1.014 which is 75% AA. I pitched at 72*F and fermented in my 95*F-ish garage. Then it was DONE. Flocc'd out, and wouldn't drop a point even after rousing. I added some amylase powder, about a teaspoon, and a sachet of montrachet yeast. Let it rot in the carboy for, oh, like three months, and then added some fresh montrachet at bottling time. It finished at 1.006 so I'm happy.

The bottles are carbed up so I'll probably try one this weekend to see how it turned out. I primed them for 3.9 volumes and put them in Belgian bottles with corks, they look sexy.... That'll be a subject for another thread.

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

After 4 and a half weeks I'm down to 1.003 with this yeast. I mashed at 148 and started at 1.046. I kept the temp at 68F for the first two days of fermentation and then let it free rise over the next few days.

Once it was in the mid 70's I added a heating pad and brought up the temp into the low 80's. I took a gravity reading and was at 1.020. Then I added 1 pound of corn sugar and this got the yeast rockin' again.

Over the next few weeks I routinely roused the yeast and kept the temp around 80-85F. I didn't really notice fermentation stalling but rather just working really slowly.

I was wondering what I was going to do when it came to bottling. There was no way I was going to rely on 3724 to carbonate my bottles so I think I might try some Montrachet.

 

[SavageSteve]

Then I added 1 pound of corn sugar and this got the yeast rockin' again.

I think I'll do this next time. I added the corn sugar during the boil, so I'm not sure if this affected the attenuation by influencing the yeast to ignore some of the normally fermentable wort sugars.

-Steve

 

[Cookiebaggs]

What temperature do you have it at? I didn't see resumed activity in mine until I got it up to 85 deg. F. after the initial stall at 1.035.

-Steve

It's been between 70-75º for the whole time. I agitated it again and added some heat to keep it at 85º. I might add some corn sugar as well if I don't see any more fermentation.

3711 for me next time!

 

[digr]

I have a Saison using 3724.
90 min mash @ 148'F ish - tested for complete conversion.
1 # Cane sugar added to dry it out.
90 min kettle boil.
OG 1.069
Pitched at 70'F
Warmed up to 80's over first couple days.
Kept about 88'F in warm water bath
7 days gravity was 1.045
15 days gravity was 1.042
Trying to decide if I should just sit and wait OR transfer to secondary to reduce autolysis, and/ or add a second yeast.

I made a similar saison under similar conditions but used WL565 & WL 568 and then added S-05 after 4 days. Went to 1.013 in 15 days, then eventually to 1.006 after 5 more weeks. I wanted to keep this one 100% 3724 (Dupont).

Current smell anst taste is great but sweet (...)

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

Trying to decide if I should just sit and wait OR transfer to secondary to reduce autolysis, and/ or add a second yeast.

Wait on it. I kept my saison with 3724 in primary for 7 weeks at 85F and it finished at 1.002. It takes a while but it'll get there.

 

[digr]

Thanks DrinksWellWithOthers.

I am keeping it at 90'F.
My plan is to just let it sit.
My only real concern is keeping it on the yeast cake at that hi temp for so long.
But it is still swirling a bit so I guess all is well.
I will suppress the urge to rack to secondary.
Last batch I had a botched racking and exposed the beer to too much 0xygen.
I'd prefer to avoid oxidized flavors as long as long as the yeasts don't go stale also.

 

[eimar]

Very interesting thread here, specially the fermenting temperature range suggested by Wyeast ( 70-95F, 21-35C )
I'm a Belgian ( living in Canada for more than 20 years ) and in Belgium any temperature above 30C is considered a heatwave. Belgian has a damp and cold climate. What's even more puzzling is that "Saison was brewed during the coldest months of the year for consumption during the late summer harvest for farm workers who were entitled to up to five liters throughout the workday during harvest season " ( Michael Jackson ).

Jacques

 

[digr]

So, updating the post. A week later, and fermentation kicked up to a wild pace.
There was subtle activity all week, but by Saturday it really kicked up, pushing lots of gas through the airlock and a torrent of activity in the carboy. I have not had a chance to take a gravity reading but I will once things settle down. This is basically the pattern I had hoped for.

Oh, and yes it does seem odd that the yeast would go so high. I have read that there are some theories that these yeasts resemble and behave more like wine yeasts (BLAM - Hieronymus, FHA P.175 - Markowski) and that Dupont ferments with this strain for 5-7 days at ~90'F to speed the process along to market. I am at the three week mark now, and will know more once I take a gravity reading...

 

[digr]

Update: as of 12-24-2009 the Saison Gravity I was talking about is down to 1.008, and still a small amount of activity. Slowing, and I am slowly stepping the temp down. Its at 88'F now. Taste from sample has an amazing smell but a very bitter taste. Hope this is from the yeast still active in suspension and not too many fusels.... Nice and dry, maybe a bit astringent. Again, lots of yeasts...

I plan to let this slow, cool, and rack to secondary and decide if it has enough hop aroma or if it could use a bit of dry hopping.

 

[Frinkey]

I brewed a Saison last week and pitched a bunch of Wyeast 3724 into it on Tuesday morning. Fermentation took off pretty quickly and was cranking along.

Thirty six hours later, the krauesen had fallen completely and it appeared that fermentation had stopped, or at least slowed down significantly. Specific gravity reading showed it was at 1.035.

From the Wyeast web site:

This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 sg.​

Bingo!

I raised the temperature a few degrees every few days, but it wasn't until it hit ~80 deg. F. that fermentation really kicked in again. It is now ~83 in my laundry room with the electric heat turned on and the door closed.

The air conditioner is on upstairs, and I'm afraid a tornado will form somewhere in the stairwell between floors!

But seriously, everything that's been said about this yeast is true-- it definitely needs very warm temperatures to do its job. I'll probably max it out around 85, and hopefully it will attenuate very well.

-Steve

Aha! I read the same thing on Wyeast's website. I'm brewing a Stone Cali Belgique clone, and fermentation appeared to have stopped after a couple days. Temp was in the high 60s. I moved it to a warmer room for a few days, and nothing. Temp was about mid 70s. I just took a reading and the SG was at 1.050...what!?!?!
I'm glad to hear it needs even warmer temps. I'm going to keep it in my living room were the heat from the heater will keep it warm. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this problem.

 

[digr]

AS of 1/03 SG is 1.006.
Cooled down to lower 70's.
I am noticing an odd bitter taste that does not seem like hops.
Maybe fusels or yeast?
And a lot of the fruity smells and all the hop aroma has been blown off.
So maybe 90's was too much for that long a time.

I think I am going to dry hop.

I also don't know if I should open a new pkg of wyeast 3724 to bottle with or just use T-58?

I wanted to stay with 100%3724, but I have had good luck with T-58 before.

Anybody have any suggestions?

 

[deepsouth]

good info on this yeast. i've only used it one time and it was sooooo unfriendly, i vowed never to use it again. french saison yeast next for me perhaps.....