Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison - they were right!

[Montanaandy]

I will be very happy if I reach 1.03 from where I am now (around 1.024 the last time I took a gravity reading). I have been giving the carboy a good shake (actually a BB with a tennis ball underneath to mix things up) and occassionally the airlock will bubble but for the most part nothing is going on. Smells great - kind of like fresh baked banana bread. I will test it this Fr. (5 weeks) and if I have not dropped much I will hit it with a pack of Notty. I do have a package of 3711 but I want to save that for another batch and want to harvest the yeast. Montanaandy

 

[soontobepcv]

Note that I'm at 1.030... still a ways to go.

I'd think that even wine yeast would be better - you want to get it bone dry, otherwise those saison yeast will eventually finish the job and mess with your carbonation, no?

 

[Montanaandy]

Ok so you are at 1.030 and not 1.003 - so you are in even worse shape than I am

I have read here (and on other boards) that many have been successful using Notty to finish it off/dry it out. I have an extra pack of Notty that I need to put to use before then end of the year so I will use it on the Saison/3724. Using 3711 would be the most optimal because it is a Saison specific yeast that reaches terminal gravity at lower temps and very fast.

Can't comment on wine yeast because I have never used it. I guess that it would work because it is believed that 3724 was somehow derrived from a wine yeast way back when and thus its preference for crazy high temps. Montanaandy

 

[jamest22]

Glad I read this. I have a saison with 10% corn sugar in the grist bill. I mashed at 147 degrees for 45 minutes, then ramped up to 155 for 25 minutes. I added Servomyces nutrient at the end of the boil. I pitched WLP 565 from a two quart starter, this yeast is also notorious for quiting around 1.025 from what I've read. Mine started at 1.056 and dropped to 1.012 after one week at 75 degrees ambient. That was great but then it stopped, no action in the past few days. I was thinking it had reached its terminal gravity but after reading all of this I am going to put it in my garage for the next week or so of 85-95 degree days and see if I can get that yeast to pick up again.

 

[soontobepcv]

Can't comment on wine yeast because I have never used it. I guess that it would work because it is believed that 3724 was somehow derrived from a wine yeast way back when and thus its preference for crazy high temps. Montanaandy

The wine yeast typically gets my meads *super* dry, though admittedly I have never used it on wort. I don't think it actually likes warm temps though - does Notty?

 

[Montanaandy]

The wine yeast typically gets my meads *super* dry, though admittedly I have never used it on wort. I don't think it actually likes warm temps though - does Notty?

Apparently does not mind it. Guess that we will find out if I don't hit terminal gravity when I take the next reading. Montanaandyh

 

[jamest22]

put mine out in the garage last night, its sitting at 1.012. Its supposed to reach a high of 95F today and tomorrow. We'll see if anything happens at these temps.

 

[Montanaandy]

[P]ut mine out in the garage last night, its sitting at 1.012. Its supposed to reach a high of 95F today and tomorrow. We'll see if anything happens at these temps."

Best of luck. Let us know how things turn out. Montanaandy

 

[meadowstream]

Anything risky about bottling this without additional yeast? After 7 weeks of primary fermentation, do you find that it still takes 4 weeks to bottle carbonate, or does it take longer?

 

[jamest22]

Glad I read this. I have a saison with 10% corn sugar in the grist bill. I mashed at 147 degrees for 45 minutes, then ramped up to 155 for 25 minutes. I added Servomyces nutrient at the end of the boil. I pitched WLP 565 from a two quart starter, this yeast is also notorious for quiting around 1.025 from what I've read. Mine started at 1.056 and dropped to 1.012 after one week at 75 degrees ambient. That was great but then it stopped, no action in the past few days. I was thinking it had reached its terminal gravity but after reading all of this I am going to put it in my garage for the next week or so of 85-95 degree days and see if I can get that yeast to pick up again.

put mine out in the garage last night, its sitting at 1.012. Its supposed to reach a high of 95F today and tomorrow. We'll see if anything happens at these temps.

Just an update. After 5 days at 90+ degrees in my garage with multiple rousings/stirrings of the yeast, nothing happened. WLP 565 didn't get going again. Gravity stayed steady at 1.012. So I made a small starter of Safbrew S-33 and pitched some of it into the Saison. It took the gravity down to 1.06 in a couple days. I bottled on Sunday and it tasted great.

FWIW, its the first time i'd used S-33. Its a beast of a yeast. I had seriously heavy starter activity with krausen within an hour to two. Seems like a great clean-up yeast for fruit/spicy beers as it has a very high alcohol tolerance and ferments ideally as low as 59 degrees: http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/Prodsheets/SafbrewS-33.pdf

 

[Jboggeye]

Hi Guys, I'm brewing tomorrow with 3724. Gonna pitch at 70, hold for 2 days, then raise temp 2 degree a days for 5 days (sound like anyone?). After the 5 days, I'm going to cool the brew down to 79-80 and pitch a small starter of 3711. (I've used 3711 before and love it, I just want more earthiness in this one.)
I'll hold it below 80 for the rest of the time, probably at 75.

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Montanaandy]

Jboggeye - I wish you luck but I believe that you want to hit the 3724 with heat from the start. 3724 is a different cat from 3711. You can go up the 95'F and the hotter the better. The highest temp in a water bath that I was able to get up to was around 85" even htough I would have welcomed 90'F + and I still was stuck around 1.024 for quite some time. I ended up adding a package of Notty to dry things out and I plan on taking a TG reading Fri. and (hopefully) kegging it and ending this chapter. I am 6 weeks out at this point. Montanaandy

 

[Jboggeye]

mm, I may have to rethink my temps. Farmhouse Ales states that although 3724 can easily go into the 90, it "delivers plenty of character at 75 to 80" (p 175)

I'm not worried about not drying out, the 3711 will do that for me. I'm just hoping that 80 degrees (give or take) will give me the yeast characteristics I am looking for.

You are saying that the "plenty" of character is not quite enough, correct?

 

[Montanaandy]

My bad. I didn't see that you were going to hit it with some 3711 too. Yeah, you can probably get away with lower temps (lower being in the mid-upper 70's to low-mid 80's) instead of the 85-90' that a straight 3724 would benefit from. I would still start it off as high as you can if you want to get the most out of the 3724. Montanaandy

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

I used 3724; started at 68F for 2 days, then let it free rise into the 70's for a week then upped it to 80F. Once it slowed down I raised it to 85 and roused the yeast once a day. It took a little while but but it finished at 1.002 without any problems.

 

[Montanaandy]

It really depends on the results you want using 3724. If you want a true Dupont clone then you should kick start it at a fairly high temp and ramp it up. You can take longer at lower temps and you will get a great beer but it will a bit different. This has wine yeast characteristics which benefit from what would seem insane temps. Montanaandy

 

[Bonesey]

After a week, from OG of 1.064, it's stuck at 1.035. Was at 80F for most of the week. Put the carboy in a warm water bath, but have no real means of keeping it at 90F, besides topping up bath with hot water. I live in an apt with temps around 78F. Really not looking fwd to keeping this brew in primary for 6 wks. May finish with US-05 if it doesn't drop to 1.012 in 3 wks

 

[Montanaandy]

Bonesey - I feel for ya - I have been going down this path for 6 weeks now but the end result is worth it. I too am unable to keep the temp any higher than the mid 80's but one thing that I did do which was suggested by a friend who has experience with Saison's and more moderate temps is to wrap the carboy in insulation - I used a reflective bubble insulation called "Reflectrix" - but even a thick blanket will work to an extent. I made a cylinder out of the wrap and duct taped the ends and slid it over the Better Bottle. I also have an old heating pad that does not have a cutoff temp so I can keep that at about 80-85' and the insulation keeps the temp locked in and the fermentation going. The yeast is a test of one's patience but man does it smell good and the samples have been wonderful. Montanaandy

 

[ChshreCat]

May finish with US-05 if it doesn't drop to 1.012 in 3 wks

US05 won't dry it out like a saison should be dried out. You'd be better off picking up some 3711 and pitching a nice starter. That'll take it right down nice.

 

[Montanaandy]

"You'd be better off picking up some 3711 and pitching a nice starter. That'll take it right down nice."


Yep, this is the best way to do it. Montanaandy

 

[Montanaandy]

Well I took a gravity reading this evening and I am down to 1.014 from 1.026 after adding some Notty. I added a Brew Mat underneath the BB in addition to the heating pad on the side + insulation to give it one last blast of heat and I am getting some airlock activity so I am going to sit tight for a few more days before I keg it. Gravity sample tasted really nice. Going to brew another Saison with 3711 tomorrow and look forward to an easier time (hopefully). Montanaandy

 

[mrmekon]

I just took the first reading on my saison using this yeast, 1.018 after 32 days. My airlock is still bubbling once every few seconds, as it has been all month. This sucker is slooooow, but the hydro sample tasted spectacular. Mine has been dancing up and down between 72F and 80F.

 

[passedpawn]

I just took the first reading on my saison using this yeast, 1.018 after 32 days. My airlock is still bubbling once every few seconds, as it has been all month. This sucker is slooooow, but the hydro sample tasted spectacular. Mine has been dancing up and down between 72F and 80F.

That would be a very high FG for a saison.

 

[mrmekon]

That would be a very high FG for a saison.

I'm certainly not implying it's done! Just pointing out that it can keep chugging away for over a month despite high krausen within 24 hours. I was hoping to bottle in 2 weeks, but if it's going to ferment this slowly that might not be possible.

 

[smellysell]

I've used this yeast quite a few times with less than stellar results until the last batch I did, which I started at 90 degrees and let it ride there until it was done a few weeks later. Got it super dry and it's delicious, with no off flavors. I'm hoping I've found the magic ticked to this yeast, because I love the flavor of it, but it can obviously be a huge pain in the ass.

 

[passedpawn]

I'm certainly not implying it's done! Just pointing out that it can keep chugging away for over a month despite high krausen within 24 hours. I was hoping to bottle in 2 weeks, but if it's going to ferment this slowly that might not be possible.

Well you're right then, that is one slow ferment. I've never had anything move that slow.

 

[Bonesey]

1.018 after 32 days.

Gentle Jesus! I think this is a perfectly fine yeast to use if you have a hot garage and carboys galore to start other brews. In hindsight I should have started this before my 3 wk vacation: Set it and forget it. I'm fairly new to this, so I've got many beers in the pipeline that I'm dying to make. I've got one other 5 gal boy to get started on other beers. Just when I thought I'd mastered the whole patience thing with this hobby, wyeast 3724 comes along to ruin everything.

 

[Bonesey]

1.018 after 32 days.

Gentle Jesus! I think this is a perfectly fine yeast to use if you have a hot garage and carboys galore to start other brews. In hindsight I should have started this before my 3 wk vacation: Set it and forget it. I'm fairly new to this, so I've got many beers in the pipeline that I'm dying to make. I've got one other 5 gal boy to get started on other beers. Just when I thought I'd mastered the whole patience thing with this hobby, wyeast 3724 comes along to ruin everything.

 

[bnmir]

Would repitching another vial of the same yeast help un-stall it?

 

[Hopfen_und_Malz]

The first saison I did with 3724 rocked the house and was done in a couple weeks. Now my second saison stopped after 36 hours despite my cozy setup. But, hey, no rush, the yeasties know what to do. Little patience is all.

[/IMG]


Salut

 

[phasedweasel]

I bottled my saison made with 3724 last night. Bottled September 21st, and I brewed it July 25th. Two months in the primary!

I fermented at 75-78, and when it stalled out at 1.034 (OG 1.064), I moved it outside onto my North Carolina porch in the summer. In a water bath (to keep daily temperatures swings minimized) and protected from the sun, I swirled daily and poured in boiling water twice a day to keep the temp above 85. Not a peep from the yeast!

Three weeks later I bring it back inside and forget about it, and a week ago it showed signs of life! A new krausen formed, and over a week it dropped from 1.034 to 1.007. Truly, I do not understand this yeast. By the way, the hydro samples tasted great.

 

[Jboggeye]

what was your recipe?

BTW, anyone got some weird grainy flavor that is slowly going away? I tried Bohemian Pilsner malt, and I'm wondering if that's the culprit...

 

[griffonage]

Interesting that later washed generations of 3724 worked more quickly. I will keep that in mind if/when I decide whether it is worth washing the 3724 that I am using for another batch. Looking forward to trying 3711 and comparing the results to 3724. Montanaandy

I would guess that what you experienced with your 2nd gen was due to higher population rather than any discernible "strength" of the cells.. I've read that Wyeast smack packs are on the small side for anything over 1.058.

 

[jaja]

I've got mine going now its summer here in Australia, I plan on racking a successive saison on top of this brew when done if the hot weather holds up that long.

Last years was a cracker and yesterday a flawless brew day so don't let me down little yeasties!

 

[griffonage]

I've got mine going now its summer here in Australia, I plan on racking a successive saison on top of this brew when done if the hot weather holds up that long.

Last years was a cracker and yesterday a flawless brew day so don't let me down little yeasties!

The esters from this yeast make the fermenting wort the best tasting "unfinished beer" i've brewed...hope that's a good sign for when its bottled, carbonated and aged!

 

[statseeker]

I just brewed a saison myself with this yeast and I'm on week 4 now and it's still slowly humming along. The krausen is no where close to what it was the first week, but it's still active. I'm thinking about killing the fermentation here soon. Starting gravity was 1.068 and now it's 1.022 with a bit of an astringent taste to it which I'm certain will settle out with age. But I dont want it to become very alcoholic. This is supposed to be a relatively dry summer beer with somewhat low ABV 4-7%. Mine's at almost 6.

 

[Jboggeye]

Give it time at 75 degrees and it will turn out great. I wouldn't stop it short, as you'll be missing out on many of the subtle flavors that come out of a longer fermentation for this yeast.
For a low ABV Saison, the starting gravity should be low, as it attenuates quite well...

 

[griffonage]

OG 1.080

First 2 weeks were @ 76 degrees > SG 1.028

Week 3 is @ 90 degrees > SG 1.021

 

[caiafa]

This yeast produced the tastiest green beer. So dry and spicy. Works wonders with some rye taste.

You can use this yeast with another strain for a faster attenuation.

 

[NamasteIPA]

Would repitching another vial of the same yeast help un-stall it?

I gave that a shot and it basically didn't do any good. I have mind fermenting at between 70-80 degrees for about 2.5 weeks now. I am about to just put the thing outside in the heat (90-100 degrees) and see If I can get this thing to move...