A Wyeast 3724 Story

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
I am making my first Saison, and using Wyeast 3724 for the first time. With a goal to bottle 24 pints and minimize trub, I lately scale recipes to 4.0 gallons post-boil and ferment in a 3-gallon carboy plus some extra in a clear 0.5 gallon growler, merging the two either at bottling time or in a secondary.

I hadn't harvested yeast before, or made a yeast starter before, but decided to try yeast rinsing per the illustrated technique at this post Yeast Washing Illustrated so that it would be possible to make some additional Saison batches as time permits.

The Wyeast 3724 packet was within three weeks of its Best-if-Used-by-Date, and I had a way to heat the fermentation space, so I got started Wednesday (4/7). The 3724 packet was in the fermentation space at 70F for about five hours, and it was quite active, swelling to more than double in size. After the boil, I got the wort to about the same temperature and transferred it to the 3-gallon and 0.5-gallon fermenters. It was tricky pitching just a few teaspoons of the slurry from the packet into the growler, but I got everything done and safely in the fermentation space with airlock or blow-off setups.

Based on good advice from, I think, VikeMan [or @VikeMan, (not sure how to reference)], I started fermentation at 70F then ramped up after fermentation started. Instead of over a week, I ramped up the temperature to the upper 70s or 80 over four days. Fermentation looked good by day two, but then slowed as expected.

On day four (4/11) I transferred the two fermenters' contents into one sanitized 3-gallon carboy. Then I rinsed the leftovers (from just the 3-gal.) per the rinsing technique which went well.

To experiment with making a starter, on day four I also made about 3/4 of a quart of wort with a quart of boiling water and 2.5 ounces of extra light dried malt extract following these simple instructions: How To Make a Yeast Starter (OG 1.040) - Brewer's Friend . To about 5/8 quart of the cooled wort, I pitched about 3/4 cup of the leftover yeast slurry from the rinsing process.

Part of my thinking of making the starter was to have extra of the 3724 yeast to add to the secondary fermenter if needed. The temperature is set to 83F now on day five (4/12), and fermentation is more active now compared to yesterday. The additional yeast from the starter may not be needed after all.

See attached images; everybody seems to be doing fine. The string on the 1-liter bottle I'm using for the starter is because I am having a terrible time keeping stoppers from backing out. The heating element is a 12" x 24" heating pad set on high and controlled by a temperature controller.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
OP
thefigure5

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
I have had excellent results harvesting yeast without rinsing. I have read several people that know a lot more about yeast than I do talk about how leaving yeast under beer is a much better environment than water. See: Simple Yeast Storage Procedure with Photos
That's an informative write up. I've seen in the forums that people use the yeast cake from one batch as the starter for the next with success. It sounds like keeping the cake with a little beer for later use works too.
 
OP
thefigure5

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
On day four (4/11) I transferred the two fermenters' contents into one sanitized 3-gallon carboy.
By day seven (4/14) I had the fermenter at 90°F, and it stayed at 90°F for 10 weeks+, almost 11 weeks. I bottled and kept the bottles at ~88°F for three weeks. Then I dropped the temperature to the 70-72°F range for one week. Now (8/1) the bottles have been in the 66-68°F range for one week.

I will report back when these bottles have had more time. For the couple I've tried, taste and carbonation are getting there, ready to share with others.
 

Deadalus

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
938
Reaction score
948
The airlock isn't necessary for the starter. I use foil and some people here report using a foam stopper. You want to get some oxygen to the yeast. I put a rubber band on the foil in the warmer months to keep out fruit flies. But I will a few times lift the foil slightly to let some air in. You could probably get away with using the flip top but I am concerned about stuff floating down into the bottle. Since you don't have a stir plate, you could shake the bottle some over time to aerate it.

(I forgot to type band first pass and that reads funny without it!)
 
OP
thefigure5

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
10-11 weeks is a long time, it was likely done in 3-4 days and could have likely been packaged after 10 days or so
Wyeast 3724 is slow. I didn't mean to let it go 10+ weeks though. Several weekends out of town took away some of the momentum. It did seem to be active for much of the time.

I've had 3724 stall at 1.025. ish. I have made saisons at warm temps.

3724 for 2 weeks. Then, 3711 for another 2 weeks. That will do it.
I wanted to see how it came out with Wyeast 3724 alone and hadn't mixed yeasts before. 3724+3711 or 3724->3711 sounds familiar. I'm sure I've read of others doing that to speed up the process. I am planning a second batch with a starter from the 3724 I harvested, with some adjustments and pitching a packet of BE-134 dry yeast with the starter, keeping the temperature in the good range for the BE-134. I don't know if the BE-134 will overpower the 3724.
 

CascadesBrewer

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,508
Reaction score
1,148
Location
VA, USA
Wyeast 3724 is slow. I didn't mean to let it go 10+ weeks though. Several weekends out of town took away some of the momentum. It did seem to be active for much of the time.
I have had good luck with my recent 3 batches of Saison using the Dupont strain and "open" fermenting. Where in my case this meant just covering the top of the fermenter with foil instead of an airlock during active fermentation. This yeast seems to like just that little bit of oxygen to keep it going. I believe that Dupont open ferments their beers, or at least the Saison.

Also, the couple batches I made with Omega Saisonstein was very similar with a bit of complexity, and that strain does not have a stall reputation. I think White Labs sells a Saison blend that is Dupont + another Saison.
 
OP
thefigure5

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
The airlock isn't necessary for the starter. I use foil and some people here report using a foam stopper. You want to get some oxygen to the yeast. I put a rubber band on the foil in the warmer months to keep out fruit flies. But I will a few times lift the foil slightly to let some air in. You could probably get away with using the flip top but I am concerned about stuff floating down into the bottle. Since you don't have a stir plate, you could shake the bottle some over time to aerate it.

(I forgot to type band first pass and that reads funny without it!)
I will keep all of this in mind. Typographical errors! You gotta love them. I never see mine until after hitting send. Then they are obvious.
 
OP
thefigure5

thefigure5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
47
Reaction score
32
Location
Tucson
I have had good luck with my recent 3 batches of Saison using the Dupont strain and "open" fermenting. Where in my case this meant just covering the top of the fermenter with foil instead of an airlock during active fermentation. This yeast seems to like just that little bit of oxygen to keep it going. I believe that Dupont open ferments their beers, or at least the Saison.

Also, the couple batches I made with Omega Saisonstein was very similar with a bit of complexity, and that strain does not have a stall reputation. I think White Labs sells a Saison blend that is Dupont + another Saison.
I enjoyed watching your videos. Practical stuff.
 
Top