Wyeast 3191 VSS Berliner Weisse Blend

[landhoney]

http://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=2

Thought I'd let everybody know now

Get it while its hot, I ordered mine ( some place online called high-gravity homebrew supply? - they'll probably just take my money and not ship anything ) They also had some 3711 left - if anybody want to make a Saison this yeast is supposedly AWESOME

And to answer your question; yes, once you start using Brett you will ONLY be able to brew funky beers.

 

[landhoney]

Well, LHBS had some today and couldn't resist buying it - so now I'll have two packs. I'm going to email Wyeast and ask about the 'best' options/techniques for using this mix. If/when they respond I'll be sure to post relevant info.

BTW, nobody cares about this one?

 

[Beerrific]

Yeah, I care. I think I talked to you in the chat about it...

I am probably going to give this mix a try but I am waiting to hear what you say before I buy

 

[the_bird]

I care - but I'm doing a batch the old-school way (blending a neutral ale yeast with a lacto culture). I probably would have chickened out of using Brett anyway...

 

[landhoney]

Yeah, I care. I think I talked to you in the chat about it...
I am probably going to give this mix a try but I am waiting to hear what you say before I buy

I say buy, buy, buy! No, sell, sell, sell! Seriously though, they recommend 3-6 months for full flavor development( the brett I guess), so by the time I could give a recommendation it may not be available any more. Of course you could do it with two strains( Lacto and Ale strain), but if this blend turns out to be the best ever you may be SOL. I just emailed Wyeast with my questions, maybe they'll shed some light on how long it really needs. I don't want you to miss out waiting for reviews. You could always buy it, and just hold onto it for a while.

 

[Beerrific]

I say buy, buy, buy! No, sell, sell, sell! Seriously though, they recommend 3-6 months for full flavor development( the brett I guess), so by the time I could give a recommendation it may not be available any more. Of course you could do it with two strains( Lacto and Ale strain), but if this blend turns out to be the best ever you may be SOL. I just emailed Wyeast with my questions, maybe they'll shed some light on how long it really needs. I don't want you to miss out waiting for reviews. You could always buy it, and just hold onto it for a while.

I have been debating getting this or just using a regular yeast and a lacto culture. But, yeah, it is unfortunate that they say to age it for longer than they will be selling it.

 

[Kaiser]

What about using the lacto that is on the malt? I have been thinking of trowing some uncrushed malt into a starter to sour it up, boil it to kill the lacto and then add it to the beer in the primary. These were idea's for brewing a Gose since I don't wan't to invite live lacto into my bottling bucket. It should also allow me to control the sourness.

Kai

 

[landhoney]

What about using the lacto that is on the malt? I have been thinking of trowing some uncrushed malt into a starter to sour it up, boil it to kill the lacto and then add it to the beer in the primary. These were idea's for brewing a Gose since I don't wan't to invite live lacto into my bottling bucket. It should also allow me to control the sourness.
Kai

I bottled my Gose(need to update that thread, thanks for the reminder) and just found a bottle, so I'll be able to taste the real thing for the first time and compare it to my first attempt. I used a sour mash for it and a Berliner and they turned out very well, but this blend contains a Brett strain isolated from a now defunct brewery in Berlin. So that adds an interesting authenticity to the blend and should make an interesting/different beer. The other methods to make these beers are fine, but this is a unique blend that I look forward to trying.

 

[Evan!]

Gueuze. Pronounced "Goo-za". Anyway, so, landhoney, did you actually blend batches?

 

[the_bird]

Gose (a German beer with salt and corriander) ain't the same as Gueuze.

 

[Evan!]

Wait, LH actually brewed a Gose? I've never heard of anyone brewing one of those outside of Germany. I think I've actually only seen one on a shelf once.

Clarify, please...Gueuze or Gose?

 

[the_bird]

Landhoney's my hero, dude.

 

[landhoney]

Wait, LH actually brewed a Gose? I've never heard of anyone brewing one of those outside of Germany. I think I've actually only seen one on a shelf once.
Clarify, please...Gueuze or Gose?

Yeah its Gose, I've never had one either. But will soon for a side by side with mine, as you see at the end of that thread. Prediction: mine will taste better
I wish it were Gueze though, that's ~2.5 years off though(my first pLambic is only ~5 months old).

BTW, my EAC is coming out here, you think I'd make that mistake?

 

[Evan!]

Yeah its Gose, I've never had one either. But will soon for a side by side with mine, as you see at the end of that thread. Prediction: mine will taste better
I wish it were Gueze though, that's ~2.5 years off though(my first pLambic is only ~5 months old).

Heh, so you decided to try the style, even though you've never had it, just because it's a crazy obscure sour beer.

I bow before you. :rockin:

BTW, my EAC is coming out here, you think I'd make that mistake?

I've seen some knowledgeable beer geeks misspell Gueuze, but yah, I should have known better from the Crown Prince of All That is Sour. Mah Bahd.

 

[landhoney]

Heh, so you decided to try the style, even though you've never had it, just because it's a crazy obscure sour beer.
I've seen some knowledgeable beer geeks misspell Gueuze, but yah, I should have known better from the Crown Prince of All That is Sour. Mah Bahd.

I've yet to meet a sour beer I didn't like, and it sounded good, so I found a recipe and thought I'd try it. And I wouldn't say 'Crown Prince' but I hope I never make a mistake like Gose vs. Gueze Not that its that huge. And, BTW, Nah Bahd Evan!.

 

[the_bird]

Interesting article from Michael Jackson on Gose and related beer styles I came across while looking for Berliner Weisse information.

http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000844.htmlhttps://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=511969#post511969

 

[Kaiser]

I've yet to meet a sour beer I didn't like, and it sounded good, so I found a recipe and thought I'd try it. And I wouldn't say 'Crown Prince' but I hope I never make a mistake like Gose vs. Gueze Not that its that huge. And, BTW, Nah Bahd Evan!.

You'll like it. After having had the Berliner Weisse, Gose and a few funky Belgians (excuse my ignorance here) I decided that Gose is so far the only sour beer I liked.

And when I had the Gose I did not know about the salt or the coriander and I can't remeber either of these tastes. Just that there was something else there besides the sourness. At the time I attributed it to the malt bill. Similar to what I thought of Sam Adam's Summer Beer before I read that it is brewed with spices.

Kai

 

[landhoney]

Here's the response back from Wyeast to my questions on this blend:

"Mid 60s to low 70s is fine and I think this is the best range for this blend. Traditional BW is aged for this period of time, but I actually think you can use this blend to produce a good BW in a couple of months. Bottle when you see gravity stabilize. You will want to keep an eye on it after bottling... the Brett will munch on the more complex sugars. If you see the beer is becoming too carbonated, refrigerate them. Also, keep the IBUs low (below 8) for maximum Lactobacillus performance. "

I replied back, and asked about doing the no-boil method. I'm planning on employing this method with my Berliner Weisse with this blend. When they reply back, I'll be sure to post that response as well. It's taditional and I think the Lacto/etc. on the grain can survive the mash/sparge(maybe just mash, but then they'd still make it into the fermenter), thus making a more sour beer and possibly a more fermentable wort because of the no-boil( maybe? no idea on this though).

 

[landhoney]

That was fast:

"I like the no boil method. In the tests I have done though, I bring the wort to a boil and then immediately turn off the heat. I do this to get a pretty good kill so we can see waht the bugs we are adding are doing."

So, I'm definitely going to try the no boil method. This will brewed this weekend. :rockin:

 

[Iordz]

I just got a pack! Can't wait to try it. I'm definitely culturing this one!

 

[Monchoon]

I don't think any lacto or brett will survive at mash tempswhen the length of the mash will be over 30 min or so, but other bugs may.

 

[Iordz]

LH, are you planning to mash hop? I have been thinking about doing the "no-boil" method with a little mash hops.

 

[landhoney]

LH, are you planning to mash hop? I have been thinking about doing the "no-boil" method with a little mash hops.

Yes, thats what I'm doing. No boil, mash hop, single decoction. Doing it right now as a matter of fact

 

[sause]

Lacto is a heat tolerant species. It doesn't do it's thing at saccharifition mash temps but it can survive up to almost boiling temps. Good luck land I'm going to have to do this one soon too. I might get two pack and see what diiference their might be.

 

[zoebisch01]

What about using the lacto that is on the malt? I have been thinking of trowing some uncrushed malt into a starter to sour it up, boil it to kill the lacto and then add it to the beer in the primary. These were idea's for brewing a Gose since I don't wan't to invite live lacto into my bottling bucket. It should also allow me to control the sourness.

Kai

Very easy to do. The method I use is crush some base malt, add some water @ 130°F , put a lid on it (SS pot) and into the oven. Just leave the oven light on. I have found that 24 hours is sufficient to make it quite sour and is fairly reproduceable it seems. I cannot 100% verify this, but have done it twice now with good results. I just lauter it and toss it into the boil with the rest of my malt from my recipe.

 

[zoebisch01]

Thanks for the heads up about the yeast landhoney!

 

[landhoney]

Thanks for the heads up about the yeast landhoney!

No problem.
This ones in the bag, I tried fly sparging for the first time today with this one, interesting but slow. I came in a bit above my volume and above my target gravity, hitting 1.040. By far the lowest SG beer I've made, but still above the upper limit for the style, which is 1.036. Oh well. Also weird because I didn't boil the wort, didn't really 'feel' like brewing.

 

[Beerrific]

I go this yeast from NB and am planning on brewing this sometime this week. I had a quick question for the sour beer experts...

It says it needs to age for 3-6 months for the full flavor. Does that mean on the entire yeast cake? I am assuming not, but should this be treated like any other ale? I was planning on fermenting until I reach FG and then rack to age. I ask because I want to do the primary fermentation in a bucket then age in a keg. Do you think I will have a problem with this? About when should I look to rack to the keg to age?

Thanks!

 

[Iordz]

I think that's a good question. IMO, you could leave it on the yeast because the Brettanomyces are part of the yeast cake. If you rack you could be removing most of the Brett, which could make the beer take longer to develope its flavor. Autolysis can benifit Brett, since they will use the resources left by the dead yeast, just as they do in lambic. I would like to hear other brewer's thoughts on this.

 

[landhoney]

I go this yeast from NB and am planning on brewing this sometime this week. I had a quick question for the sour beer experts...
It says it needs to age for 3-6 months for the full flavor. Does that mean on the entire yeast cake? I am assuming not, but should this be treated like any other ale? I was planning on fermenting until I reach FG and then rack to age. I ask because I want to do the primary fermentation in a bucket then age in a keg. Do you think I will have a problem with this? About when should I look to rack to the keg to age?
Thanks!

To add to what Iordz said, I'll say that it is my understanding(and my practice) to leave only pLambic style beers on/in the primary on the yeast cake to maximize the amount of 'food' for the bugs over the long haul to get the greatest funk/sour possible. Oud Bruins/Flanders Red/etc I always rack off the yeast cake after a few days - weeks for the long haul. I'd rack to keg a few days after you think primary fermentation has ceased, and then check the pressure once or twice a week. You don't want high pressure to build up because that inhibits yeast flavor.
I think you would be safe leaving it on the yeast cake, but I'm not certain. Maybe email Wyeast, if you want it very sour and possibly more funky(Brett) maybe leaving on the cake is the way to go, but I haven't heard of this beer style being made this way.
P.S. Mines still on the cake.....but because of my busy schedule, not intentionally.