Help me decide how to treat this bottle of ECY Dirty Dozen that I have.

[TAK]

I just picked up a bottle of ECY Dirty Dozen. I know what I want to get out of it, but I'm mulling over the best way to get what I want.

What I want to do is:

• Make a 100% Dirty Dozen fermented beer. (I have the recipe all ready to go.)
• Pitch some Dirty Dozen in primary with a saison/farmhouse yeast. (I also have that recipe and the yeast ready to go.)
• Retain a small portion of the Dirty Dozen to step up and maintain as a culture in my collection.

Some additional info is:

• My bottle of Dirty Dozen just arrived. Its prepared date was 11/24/15. Using my preferred online yeast calculator, that puts the viability today at about 69%. The vial was packaged with 350 billion cells. This calculated viability would put it at about 240 billion cells now.
• The 100% Dirty Dozen fermented beer should be about 5.4 gal of 1.053 wort. At ale pitch rates that requires an even 200 billion cells.
• The Funky Saison beer should be about 5.4 gal of 1.048 wort.

My first question is, do the normal viability assumptions hold the same for Brett? I.e., is it a fair assumption that I have about 240 billion cells, or should I treat it more like it's a fully viable package of 350 billion cells? It kinda sucks that I literally just got this in the mail and it's over a month old already, but it had to have been about a month old by the time Love2Brew got it in stock. They send me an email a bit prior to x-mas saying that although I'd ordered it, they didn't actually have it yet. They shipped it out on the 28th, and it got held up at UPS over the new year's holiday. Though, it was in a trailer over the weekend, and it was ideally cold to keep well there.

I know that The Mad Fermentationist mentions using close to lager pitching rates for 100% Brett beers. I've only done one 100% Brett beer to date, and I used something closer to hybrid pitching rates, so between ale and lager rates. I also used an ECY culture for that beer, but it was a single strain, so I didn't have any concerns over growing it up. I know it's often advised not to make starters from prepared blends, since they'll grow in different proportions.

I'd really like to brew the 100% Dirty Dozen batch this weekend. Which obviously doesn't leave me time to do a Brett starter. So, I suppose a couple questions arise here. Any thoughts on ale rates versus higher rates for a Dirty Dozen fermentation?

Ale rates would let me pitch this weekend, pitching about 100 ml of the 125 ml vial (assuming I'm down to 69% viability), saving 20% of the vial for my other purposes. I could do a starter, even just to let it ride a few days for this weekend, to wake it up and grow a bit. Or I could do a starter to grow up the cell count and brew next weekend. But either way, there in lies the second question. Any thoughts on doing a starter versus not doing a starter for a Dirty Dozen fermentation (primarily due to the impact from varying growth rates of the 12 different Brett strains and pitching something that's strayed from the intended ratios)?

My second area of question is about pitching the Dirty Dozen along with a saison strain for a funky saison. I plan on pitching it in primary, right along side the saison. Obviously, I'm only working with a fraction of the vial. So, I'm curious for some opinions on pitch rate of the Dirty Dozen in this scenario. I figure I'll take the calculated ideal pitch rate and reduce the saison cell count by the amount of Brett I'm pitching along side.

Let's say I have 50 billion cells left after my first use of the Dirty Dozen (again, I'm assuming I've lost viability here, but maybe I haven't). I want to keep a portion of that to grow up and add to my collection of cultures. So, maybe I have 30-40 billion cells left in my vial to use in the saison. Is that enough? Or would it be better to grow up what's left to increase the cell count of the Brett I'm pitching into the saison? Again comes that question about the pros vs. cons of growing up the cells vs. keeping the packaged ratio of Brett strains.

Long rambling post, perhaps. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Edit: [Insert obligatory emoticon. I choose this one...]

 

[gbarron]

I don't have any good answers for you on the cell count questions, but I have a bottle of Dirty Dozen and am contemplating some of the same things. At this point, I plan to make a starter to increase the cell count. If you are concerned about the effect a starter is going to have on the different strain proportions, I would contact ECY directly and get their feedback.

My current plan is to step up a starter and make an all-Dirty Dozen beer based off the Mo Betta Bretta recipe in the American Sours book. I may then use the cake from that to put some aside for future use and then use the rest as a secondary fermenter in some other beer. From what I have read you will get more funk from most brett strains when used as a secondary ferment behind a phenolic sacch strain. So I will probably do a saison-ish beer using the Belle Saison yeast followed by the Dirty Dozen secondary.

Good luck.

 

[Agate]

I wouldn't worry about the viability of the brett, the stuff is pretty darn tough. I also think the pitch-at-lager-rates thing is unnecessary. I used a direct pitch from the vial in a 1.055 pale ale, and it was near terminal gravity at 12 days. Bottled over a month later, and it had only dropped one additional point.

I would make the 100% Brett batch, and once fermentation slows rack to a secondary to get at the yeast cake for your brett saison. Or rack the saison directly on the brett yeast cake. Either way, it should be awesome! DD might be my new favorite IPA yeast.

 

[TAK]

I wouldn't worry about the viability of the brett, the stuff is pretty darn tough. I also think the pitch-at-lager-rates thing is unnecessary. I used a direct pitch from the vial in a 1.055 pale ale, and it was near terminal gravity at 12 days. Bottled over a month later, and it had only dropped one additional point.

I would make the 100% Brett batch, and once fermentation slows rack to a secondary to get at the yeast cake for your brett saison. Or rack the saison directly on the brett yeast cake. Either way, it should be awesome! DD might be my new favorite IPA yeast.

What volume was that pale ale? There's 350 billion cells in the vial. If it was in the 5 gal batch range and you pitch the whole vial, (assuming viability is great) that's above typical ale rates. No math here, but it's closer to hybrid or between hybrid and lager rates.

Any experience with how the flavor profile changes between a direct pitch and pitch from a second generation?

 

[Agate]

It was a 5.5 gallon batch. The great thing about ECY pitches is not having to deal with starters. I'm lazy like that!

Couldn't tell you about differences between first and second pitch, but I've been using the same slurry for several different batches and it seems to perform well each time. Probably going to bottle a batch of DD cider in the next couple of weeks.

 

[TAK]

I'm thinking about pitching near ale rates. Maybe 100 ml of the vial, or perhaps a bit less assuming the Brett viability isn't as bad as what an online calculator would estimate for Sacc.

I plan on saving some of the vial for my funky saison and for culturing up. I think I want to save from the vial instead of from the yeast cake for a few reasons. My Brett beer will be pretty hoppy, so I don't want to worry about cleaning the yeast up. I also want to brew the saison soon after this first beer, and don't want to need to wait to get at the yeast cake. Also, I'd like the bit I'm culturing to be pretty clean (wort wise), so just growing it up direct from the vial.