Working on a Bruesicle clone (creamy kettle sour w/ lactose & fruit)

[deadwolfbones]

Hey y'all. This isn't exactly a clone, since I haven't had the beer in question. If you're unfamiliar, here are some examples of what it looks like:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfOzQeBFniB/?taken-by=brueryterreux
https://www.instagram.com/p/BetT0GUFycW/?hl=en&taken-by=brueryterreux
https://www.instagram.com/p/Be8uzO3lo4g/?taken-by=brueryterreux
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeYqGERFNIr/?taken-by=brueryterreux

The basic concept is: take a kettle-soured beer, most likely a gose or Berliner, and give it the milkshake IPA treatment, resulting in a creamy, turbid, sweet-sour, low-ABV beer. I like my goses and Berliners fruited pretty heavily, so that's the direction I'm headed in.

I've previously posted my Cheat Tart Gose, which uses all DME (pils + wheat) and Goodbelly for kettle souring. For my take on a Bruesicle, I'm planning to take that base beer and... tweak it a little:

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: US-05, WLP001, or K-97
Batch Size (Gallons): 2.5
Original Gravity: 1.038 (both gravities will be higher due to lactose + other adjuncts)
Final Gravity: 1.005
Boiling Time: 20
IBU: 0
Color: 2
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 @ 68F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 10-14

Ingredients:
1 lb. Pilsen DME
1 lb. Bavarian Wheat DME
No hops

Extras:
1.5 ml lactic acid 88% ("mash")
1x Goodbelly StraightShot ("mash")
2x pureed green apples (boil, 15 minutes)
0.5 lb. lactose (boil, 15 minutes)
25g wheat flour (boil, 15 minutes)
2x Cara Cara orange peel (flameout)
3x Cara Cara orange peel + flesh (10 days in secondary)
1 vanilla bean (10 days in secondary)

This will be bottled since I don't have a kegging setup yet, and I'm hoping the apple pectin and flour will help it retain the perma-haze that the actual Bruesicles and milkshake IPAs have.

Any thoughts/suggestions/cries of heresy?

 

[Dextersmom]

how did this turn out?
I'm planning something similar - an apricot popsicle sorbet weisse.
going to kettle sour with goodbelly then boil prior to pitching a basic crisp ale yeast.
going to bitter to only 5 ibu with some warrior
going to dry hop with a very small amount of el dorado
transfer to secondary then add vanilla bean, lactose, and apricot puree while it ages / conditions.

what I'm trying to figure is how much lactose to add. I've done 2.5 gallon batches in the past where I added a half pound of lactose and could barely perceive it. I'm considering adding a pound to the 2.5 but I don't want to over power.

did you end up making this one? if so how did it turn out?

 

[deadwolfbones]

It's in the fermenter right now, going on 6 days. I'm getting ready to add the second dose of orange peel and flesh, plus the vanilla.

I didn't use any hops, though I'm thinking about dry hopping with El Dorado, too. Might leave it out for this first attempt, though.

I actually tasted a bit today and the initial orange peel / lactose additions didn't do much, as far as I can tell. Tastes like other kettle sours/goses I've made before. I think you can go heavier on the lactose for sure, and load up on the fruit.

 

[Dextersmom]

nice thanks for the heads up....i figure with the sour component half a pound would really be too little.

 

[deadwolfbones]

When you add the lactose in secondary, how are you planning to incorporate it?

 

[Dextersmom]

I'll rack onto it along with the vanilla and puree. The other option is adding after the kettle sour / in the last 5 of the boil.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Yeah, that's what I did (last 15 of boil).

If you go the secondary addition route, I assume you're going to dissolve the lactose in some boiled water before adding it to the vessel? I might do that myself and beef up the sweetness with another half-pound. (Though then again the vanilla might add enough perceived sweetness.)

 

[Dextersmom]

yea i'd treat it just like that.

I think I'll do 2 vanilla beans (mostly because I think that's what I have right now).

 

[safrank]

How did this turn out? I'm 3 days into mine and trying to decide when and how much fruit/gal to add. How long did you leave it on the fruit and let it ferment on the fruit sugars? I feel like a lot of these examples leave a lot of unfermented sugars from the fruit.

 

[deadwolfbones]

It's good, but not significantly different than my other kettle sours with Goodbelly and DME. I think I'd double all the flavor additions next time.

I think you're right that they kill the yeast and blend in fruit juice/puree on a commercial scale. I can't do that, though.

I left mine on the fruit for 2 weeks.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Update: flavor is developing further in the bottle. Orange is coming through a lot more now. It's actually really nice.

 

[isomerization]

Just an FYI, lactose has essentially no sweetness. It will provide that silky mouthfeel though.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Yeah, I'm aware. Next time I'd definitely use a yeast that finishes higher, i.e. a British ale yeast, instead of US-05.

 

[Desertbrewer]

Not enough fruit!

I’ve made a couple of these types of beers but without the lactose and vanilla, and have really enjoyed the results.

On one I added 5 pounds of passion fruit purée and 3 oz of mosaic hops to the fermenter when I pitched (post boil-post souring). That one was great, could have even gone higher with the fruit and hops for more of that juice taste.

Fruity hops really bump up that juiciness. I have yet to try one of the hot neipa strains for the ferment, but I bet that’d contribute as well.

 

[mitche_4]

anyone have a full recipe and instructions/specs on a kettle sour with lactose brew the ones described above?