Marzen Fail. Recipe Assessment

[jmaringo99]

Hello all.

I wanted to do an exercise with you all based on a recent Marzen flop I had. I'm going to list my recipe and readings and would like for you to tell me how you think the beer turned out (flavors/off-flavors,etc..). See below:

Mashed at 150F for ~1hr. Boiled for 1hr. Fermented at 54F for 14 days, ramped up to 62F for 3 days for diacetyl rest, then cold crashed 10F per day until ~40F to begin a 6 week lagering in a keg. Based on the recipe below, and the measurements I entered into BeerSmith, what flavors/off-flavors would you expect from this beer? What would you change to prevent the off-flavors? Obviously let me know if you need more details and thanks in advance for the help/participation!!

 

[fluketamer]

IMO for off flavors to be a problem based on recipe you would have to really mess up the recipe. 80 percent adjunct or something.

your recipe is fine and theres no reason that i see that it would produce any off flavors.

its due to your process.

that being said its impossible to predict from the recipe what off flavors you might have.

your process seems sound so its not obvious from what you posted,

i think you are better off telling us what off flavors you got and then work from there rather than working backwards.
there doesnt seem to be anything glaringly obvious from what you posted.

my 2 cents.

 

[Willy]

Caramel w/ 80 L is approaching potential problems "off tasting". Personally, I use some melanoidin (31L) and some biscuit (30L) for getting the color. Some Munich (11L) The caramel at 80L potentially can be harsher. YMMV.

 

[jmaringo99]

I appreciate the input. The issue with this beer to me is the undesired punch of caramel, lack of biscuity malt flavor, and alcoholic aftertaste.

 

[Pennine]

You may be noticing a lack of balance in the bitterness. 19ibus is pretty low in a 6.6% beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Recipe wise, caramel malt is questionable in marzen. I would use melanoiden instead, but only 4oz.

The bigger problem would be the yeast pitch if you didn't make a 3 liter starter. Did you pitch a single pack?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I have to concur with others, caramel/crystal does not belong in a Marzen/Okto.

 

[jmaringo99]

Recipe wise, caramel malt is questionable in marzen. I would use melanoiden instead, but only 4oz.

The bigger problem would be the yeast pitch if you didn't make a 3 liter starter. Did you pitch a single pack?

Can you explain why the bigger problem is the yeast pitch? I used a single pack and pitched at around 70F. It went immediately into the kegerator to reach fermentation temp.

 

[Bobby_M]

Can you explain why the bigger problem is the yeast pitch? I used a single pack and pitched at around 70F. It went immediately into the kegerator to reach fermentation temp.

Sure, the ideal pitch size for a beer depends on a lot of different factors, gravity of the wort, stressors such as fermentation temp (lower temps are more stressful), and the desired amount of "fermentation character" which is driven by ester production (fruity ale flavors), phenols (often yeast strain driven), and other alcohols/aka fusels.

It's best to use pitch rate calculators because it's hard to manage and consider all of the above. Don't forget that liquid yeast is dying every day in the pack so the pitch rate calculators will need to know the packaging date so it knows how many cells to estimate you have. Here's your batch run through the calculator assuming a packaging date of June of this year.

So, you underpitched a lot. Given the needed cell count, a LOT of reproduction would have been required and unless you hit it with pure oxygen through a stone, the yeast really wouldn't have been able to make it happen. The fermentation almost certainly was stressed, leading to one or more issues such as esters (fruity), fusels (solvent/hot), diacetyl (buttery/slick), and/or acetaldehyde (green apple, latex paint, raw pumpkin).

 

[kevin58]

Right off the bat I see you are about 6 months too late.

That's a joke son... Märzen = March.

 

[Bobby_M]

Right off the bat I see you trying to brew a Märzen in September.

That's a joke son... Märzen = March.

True enough. I'm drinking one of my best ever Marzens and it was in fact lagered all the way from March. One of the reasons I named my kit "Oktober Anytime" is the realization that many are brewed right around now. Tasting them out in the wild is a good reminder to brew one (or set a google calendar reminder for February if you're next level).