Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[NeverDie]

After dropping in the TILT, it turns out that M31 has an SG of 0.998. So, in the interest of wrapping up this project, I'm declaring M31 done.

I tasted M31, and, despite its slow start, it's one of the better tasting strains. Thank you, Miraculix, for suggesting it.

Therefore, the first pass is now completed, and the updated round-up list is now:


Drinkable as-is:
1. Voss Kveik. 970
2. M05 960. OG 1.105
3. Fresco. 950. O.G. 1.103
4. Wyeast Sweet Mead. 945.
5. M31. 943. OG 1.105. FG 0.998.
6. Fresco. 940. O.G. 1.085
7. KV-1116. 850. OG 1.105
8. S-04. 830
9. D47 800
10. KV-1116. 790. O.G. 1.085
11. Fresco Cyser. 750.

Not good for drinking as-is. Maybe backsweetening or oaking or aging or something would help:
12. CdB 625
13. 71B 600
14. 1388. 400
15. 71B 350. O.G. 1.105

Marginal:
16. EC1118. 300
17. Fleishman's. 200
18. QA23. 150. OG 1.105, FG 0.999

Bad:
19. D21 100
20. Belle Saison 80
21. Premier Cuvee 60
22. DV10. 50
23. Premier Blanc. 0. Down the drain.

After I finish stabilizing the non-bad batches, I'll take their FG's and report back.

 

[Maylar]

Next step is to stabilize the different batches (other than the failed ones, which I'll just let age without stabilizing).

Does the following sound right?
Potassium Metabisulphite: 1/16 teaspoon per gallon (or maybe 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons?)
Potassium Sorbate: 1/2 teaspoon per gallon

This is what Campden tablets are for - small doses. One crushed tablet per gallon, much easier than trying to measure out fractions of a teaspoon or grams of K-Meta. I crush them with a mortar & pestle, but 2 spoons work in a pinch.

 

[Maylar]

Bad:
19. D21 100
20. Belle Saison 80
21. Premier Cuvee 60
22. DV10. 50
23. Premier Blanc. 0. Down the drain.

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts. D21 works well with traditionals, leaving nice aromas and volume. DV10 is one of the cleanest, most neutral yeasts out there.

So, I suspect that what you're experiencing is a result of process problems, not yeast. The band-aid that you mentioned is a fairly common wine fault, and Google points to Brett contamination. Let's ask our resident Brett guru @RPh_Guy

 

[NeverDie]

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts. D21 works well with traditionals, leaving nice aromas and volume. DV10 is one of the cleanest, most neutral yeasts out there.

So, I suspect that what you're experiencing is a result of process problems, not yeast. The band-aid that you mentioned is a fairly common wine fault, and Google points to Brett contamination. Let's ask our resident Brett guru @RPh_Guy

I suspect so. By the way, D21 flocculated clear very nicely.

Question: will the band-aid flavor disappear with age? If not, I can save space by dumping the bad ones.

 

[NeverDie]

This is what Campden tablets are for - small doses. One crushed tablet per gallon, much easier than trying to measure out fractions of a teaspoon or grams of K-Meta. I crush them with a mortar & pestle, but 2 spoons work in a pinch.

What I ended up doing was dissolving 2.5 teaspoons of Potassium Sorbate and 1/4 teaspoon of Potassium Metabisulfite into 500 ml of water. Then I simply poured 100ml of that solution into each gallon, or a pro-rated amount if the target mead was different than a gallon. This kept the math very simple.

It dissolved very easily into the 500ml of water, so I presume next time I could use even less water to dissolve into.

 

[NeverDie]

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts. D21 works well with traditionals, leaving nice aromas and volume. DV10 is one of the cleanest, most neutral yeasts out there.

So, I suspect that what you're experiencing is a result of process problems, not yeast. The band-aid that you mentioned is a fairly common wine fault, and Google points to Brett contamination. Let's ask our resident Brett guru @RPh_Guy

By the way, this is also partly why I'm eager to stabilize now, so that hopefully whatever didn't get Brett will be safe from it. Will the metabisulfite and sorbate work equally well at preventing a Brett infection in an already stabilized mead?

 

[Redeemer]

Thanks! I just placed an order for the calcium chloride. I think I'll try adding it to the DV10 batch to see if it makes a difference, because DV10 is supposed to be a good flocculator, and yet so far it doesn't seem to be. I also don't have any more of it to try in a separate experiment.

In terms of water composition, I have an idea in mind. Now I'm going to ignore the whole "Mead comes from China" bit of history and operate under the assumption that it is a Scandinavian drink. Humor me.
Most of the beer I brew is IPA or similar, and I use distilled water with addition of Burton water salts. These are pre-measured amounts of gypsum, calcium carbonate and epsom salts, thus replicating the water used for the first IPA's. I've noticed an improvement in my beers over spring water alone and have been very happy.

To that end, do you think replicating the water composition from some of the rivers in Norway might yield a superior mead result?

The following are the 19 longest rivers of Norway, ranked by length:

1. Glomma, 600 km (373 mi)
2. Pasvikelva and Ivalo, 360 km (224 mi) (109 km in Norway)
3. Numedalslågen, 352 km (219 mi)
4. Gudbrandsdalslågen and Vorma, 351 km (218 mi)
5. Tana, 348 km (216 mi)
6. Drammensvassdraget (Drammenselva, 301 km (187 mi)
7. Skiensvassdraget, 251 km (156 mi)
8. Begna, 250 km (155 mi)
9. Otra, 245 km (152 mi)
10. Trysilelva, 233 km (145 mi)
11. Altaelva, 229 km (142 mi)
12. Namsen, 228 km (142 mi)
13. Hallingdalselva and Snarumselva, 220 km (137 mi)
14. Arendalsvassdraget (Nidelva (Aust-Agder)), 209 km (130 mi)
15. Orklaelva, 171 km (106 mi)
16. Renaelva, 165 km (103 mi)
17. Vefsna, 163 km (101 mi)
18. Karasjohka, 155 km (96 mi)
19. Nea-Nidelvvassdraget, 152 km (94 mi)
    
    
    

 

[NeverDie]

In terms of water composition, I have an idea in mind. Now I'm going to ignore the whole "Mead comes from China" bit of history and operate under the assumption that it is a Scandinavian drink. Humor me.
Most of the beer I brew is IPA or similar, and I use distilled water with addition of Burton water salts. These are pre-measured amounts of gypsum, calcium carbonate and epsom salts, thus replicating the water used for the first IPA's. I've noticed an improvement in my beers over spring water alone and have been very happy.

To that end, do you think replicating the water composition from some of the rivers in Norway might yield a superior mead result?

The following are the 19 longest rivers of Norway, ranked by length:

1. Glomma, 600 km (373 mi)
2. Pasvikelva and Ivalo, 360 km (224 mi) (109 km in Norway)
3. Numedalslågen, 352 km (219 mi)
4. Gudbrandsdalslågen and Vorma, 351 km (218 mi)
5. Tana, 348 km (216 mi)
6. Drammensvassdraget (Drammenselva, 301 km (187 mi)
7. Skiensvassdraget, 251 km (156 mi)
8. Begna, 250 km (155 mi)
9. Otra, 245 km (152 mi)
10. Trysilelva, 233 km (145 mi)
11. Altaelva, 229 km (142 mi)
12. Namsen, 228 km (142 mi)
13. Hallingdalselva and Snarumselva, 220 km (137 mi)
14. Arendalsvassdraget (Nidelva (Aust-Agder)), 209 km (130 mi)
15. Orklaelva, 171 km (106 mi)
16. Renaelva, 165 km (103 mi)
17. Vefsna, 163 km (101 mi)
18. Karasjohka, 155 km (96 mi)
19. Nea-Nidelvvassdraget, 152 km (94 mi)
    
    

I don't know, but God save us if that's the only information we have to go on.

 

[NeverDie]

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts. D21 works well with traditionals, leaving nice aromas and volume. DV10 is one of the cleanest, most neutral yeasts out there.

So, I suspect that what you're experiencing is a result of process problems, not yeast. The band-aid that you mentioned is a fairly common wine fault, and Google points to Brett contamination. Let's ask our resident Brett guru @RPh_Guy

Given your ringing endorsement of D21, and the fact that it flocculated extremely well in my test batch, I'll try it in a fresh test batch and post the results. So, to that end, I just now ordered another packet of it from Amazon.

I'd be tempted to do the same with DV10, but a number of the test batch yeasts already taste very clean and neutral. [Edit: oh what the heck: I'll do a new DV10 test batch too and post the results. ]

 

[RPh_Guy]

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts.

Yeast selection is always such a weird topic. People's personal taste vary so wildly with yeast in wine I'm sure my list would be different and your list would be different.
Then when you mix in honey differences and process differences between all of us, these sets of data become almost worthless.

I've heard that EC-1118 and Premier Cuvee are the same strain. DV10 is very closely related, genetically.

The band-aid that you mentioned is a fairly common wine fault, and Google points to Brett contamination.

Bandaid flavor is most commonly from chlorophenols as a result of chlorinated (chlorine or chloramine) water making its way in ... Whether used to make the must, used for yeast hydration, bentonite hydration, nutrient dissolution, excessive sanitizer residue or airlock suckback, etc.
It takes very little chlorinated water to cause this problem since we can detect this flavor in very small quantity.

Brett or other wild yeast can also produce the flavor too, so yeah, contamination is possible. I haven't ever experienced this flavor from a wild fermentation in my limited experience.

My guess is this flavor won't "age out", but I really don't know.

Will the metabisulfite and sorbate work equally well at preventing a Brett infection in an already stabilized mead?

Yes. Sulfite inhibits most wild yeast/bacteria to some degree, but the combination with sorbic acid will stop it entirely.

Thanks again for putting in the time to share your results!

 

[NeverDie]

Bandaid flavor is most commonly from chlorophenols as a result of chlorinated (chlorine or chloramine) water making its way in ... Whether used to make the must, used for yeast hydration, bentonite hydration, nutrient dissolution, excessive sanitizer residue or airlock suckback, etc.

Thanks! I never knew. That's a good list of suspects to work from and to avoid in the future.

 

[NeverDie]

A bit of good news: it turns out that the DV10 and the Belle Saison are not "bad" after all. I think on the first pass I mistook them for having a bandaid flavor because I tasted them after I tasted the Premier Blanc, which was total bandaid through and through. I suppose after tasting that level of bandaid in Premier Blanc everything that followed gave the impression of tasting like bandaid too because the foul taste, in retrospect, must have lingered. Re-tasting DV10 today, though, I don't detect bandaid at all. So, I'm presently stabilizing DV10 and Belle Saison, and afterward I'll re-rank them.

 

[Blacksmith1]

There is a reason that heavy red wines are served in-between meal courses. It is to clear the palate so the flavors from the previous course do not interfere with the next.

 

[NeverDie]

There is a reason that heavy red wines are served in-between meal courses. It is to clear the palate so the flavors from the previous course do not interfere with the next.

And what do mead tasting judges use to clear their palate between one mead and the next? A heavy red wine?

 

[Blacksmith1]

Don't know if they use anything, which would seem unfair to anyone after your bandaid mead kills their tastebuds

 

[NeverDie]

I have most of the final gravities measured now (see below). The FG's are skewed low because 1. I added the stabilizing chemicals in a water solution, which added some dilution, and 2. for those batches that received bentonite, I added the Bentonite in a water solution also (as per EC Kraus instructions). My notes, which I haven't yet typed up, but will post soon, will show which batches received bentonite and which did not. The FG's I report below are what I read directly off the hydrometer, but I estimate you can safely add at least a couple points as an error correction for the dilution.

Once again, unless otherwise noted, the OG was 1.085.

Yeast Round-up Version 1.1

Drinkable as-is:
1. Voss Kveik. 970, 0.993FG
2. M05 960. OG 1.105, 0.995FG.
3. Fresco. 950. O.G. 1.103, 0.994FG
4. Wyeast Sweet Mead. 945, 0.992FG
5. M31. 943. OG 1.105, 0.996FG (0.998FG prior to dilution)
6. Fresco. 940. O.G. 1.085, 0.997FG
7. KV-1116. 850. OG 1.105, 0.996FG
8. S-04. 830, 0.991FG
9. D47 800, 0.992FG
10. KV-1116. 790. O.G. 1.085, 0.993FG
11. Fresco Cyser. 750, 0.998FG

Not good for drinking as-is. Maybe backsweetening or oaking or aging or something would help:
12. CdB 625, 0.993FG
13. 71B 600, 0.992FG
14. 1388. 400, 0.996FG
15. 71B 350. O.G. 1.105, 0.992FG

Marginal:
16. EC1118. 300, 0.992FG
17. Fleishman's. 200, 0.992FG
18. QA23. 150. OG 1.105, 0.996FG (0.999FG prior to dilution)

Bad (I won't be measuring their FG, in case they are infected).
19. D21 100. Borderline band-aid taste.
20. Premier Cuvee 60. Borderline band-aid taste.
21. Premier Blanc. 0. Strong band-aid taste. Poured down the drain.

Status: currently stabilizing. Awaiting FG measurement and new ranking.
22. Belle Saison
23. DV10

 

[RPh_Guy]

The FG's are skewed low

If the FG is below 1.000, adding water increases it

 

[Miraculix]

This thread is reaaaaally interesting. Also that the kveik scored so high is amazing.

 

[NeverDie]

If the FG is below 1.000, adding water increases it

You're right! Hmm.... It's a new hydrometer that I just recently received from amazon (old one broke): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KPDF84Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
These are the first readings that I've taken with it. It's a different brand than my prior hydrometer.

Do these readings seem right? They seem awfully low to me. I'm wondering if this new hydrometer is giving accurate readings or not.

Aha! I'll test it on distilled water and see what it says....

OK, it reads 0.998 on distilled water. Plainly, that's BS.

So, assuming the weights and buoyancy are right (and I have no reason to trust that they are) and that the scale was simply mounted wrong, then the offset correction should be +0.002.

Would somebody please recommend me a decent hydrometer to get? This one had very good amazon reviews. Was I just unlucky in getting a bad one?

[Edit: the FG's above that are notated with "prior to dilution" were taken by a TILT, not the new hydrometer. I trust the TILT readings under these test conditions. Sometimes the TILT readings are off near the beginning of a fermentation due to Krausen foam and/or bubbles and/or who knows what, but those aren't present here at the end game. ]

 

[Maylar]

You kinda need 2 hydrometers, one that covers the 0.990 - 1.160 range and a finishing hydrometer for fine measurements. I got mine from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074D9FLNG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Be warned, it's DELICATE.

I broke both of my regular hydrometers recently and bought a "Herculometer" from Northern Brewer - made of plastic and supposedly unbreakable. POS reads 2 points low with water. Grrr.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Any hydrometer may be off.

I have two normal triple scale hydrometers and one for precise FG readings. One of my triple scale hydrometers reads high, so I don't even use it.

First the basics: Make sure you are reading it correctly based on the meniscus. Make sure it's free-floating. Make sure the sample is degassed. Spin it to detach any bubbles.

Second, make sure the fluid is at the hydrometer's calibration temperature. Online calculators can apply a correction, but having the solution at the right temperature is best.

Third, ... The best way to calibrate is to take multiple readings across known density solutions ... E.g. Pure water should read 1.000. Sugar or salt solutions can be created with a scale and graduated cylinder.
https://blog.eckraus.com/calibrate-homebrew-hydrometer
If the hydrometer is off by the same amount across multiple densities, then you only need to apply a simple addition correction, as you suggested. Otherwise if the error varies, then you may need to correct by a factor (perhaps also with an addition).

 

[Miraculix]

Any hydrometer may be off.

I have two normal triple scale hydrometers and one for precise FG readings. One of my triple scale hydrometers reads high, so I don't even use it.

First the basics: Make sure you are reading it correctly based on the meniscus. Make sure it's free-floating. Make sure the sample is degassed. Spin it to detach any bubbles.

Second, make sure the fluid is at the hydrometer's calibration temperature. Online calculators can apply a correction, but having the solution at the right temperature is best.

Third, ... The best way to calibrate is to take multiple readings across known density solutions ... E.g. Pure water should read 1.000. Sugar or salt solutions can be created with a scale and graduated cylinder.
https://blog.eckraus.com/calibrate-homebrew-hydrometer
If the hydrometer is off by the same amount across multiple densities, then you only need to apply a simple addition correction, as you suggested. Otherwise if the error varies, then you may need to correct by a factor (perhaps also with an addition).

I had one that turned out to be so awfully off, that it unknowingly turned all m batches into session beers. Some of them still good, some not so much.... And worst was, the mistake we not linear, so no straight correction factor or just an addition was possible.

Best really is to follow the calibration protocol with different measured sugar solutions and if it is just to heavily on the wrong side, ditch or and buy two new ones.

Yep, two . Thank me later when you break one during brew day

 

[NeverDie]

This is not good. Two of your "bad" yeasts are very popular honey friendly yeasts. D21 works well with traditionals, leaving nice aromas and volume. [/USER]

This morning I started fermentation on a 2.5 gallon D21 traditional. This time around I'm doing everything I can to coddle it: adding Calcium Chloride, using GoFerm, and doing a stepped starter (because of the larger volume) that also starts at a low gravity and small volume and gradually transitions to higher gravities and larger volumes at each step as the D21 yeast population grows, and keeping it aerating on a stir plate while doing the starter steps.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Why are you making a starter for dry yeast?

 

[NeverDie]

Because I had procured only one packet (8 grams) of the D21 dry yeast but am going to make a 2.5 gallon traditional mead. Rather than pitching the one packet into the full 2.5 gallons all at once, I'm starting with a smaller volume (just 1/2 gallon initially) and scaling up the D21 yeast population to better match the 2.5 gallon space. Doing this, the theory is that the D21 yeast strain will then be better positioned to more fully dominate competing microorganisms. Make sense?

 

[Maylar]

Rehydrate one packet in GoFerm and that'll be fine.

 

[bob1852]

Rehydrate one packet in GoFerm and that'll be fine.

Yep. A 2 gram/gallon pitch rate is just fine.

 

[NeverDie]

Yep. A 2 gram/gallon pitch rate is just fine.

Where does the 2 gram/gallon number come from?

 

[bob1852]

Where does the 2 gram/gallon number come from?

Even 2 is likely overkill...

The Scott's lab handbook says to use dry wine yeast at 25 g / hl (which is basically one gram per gallon).

I use 2 g/gal because that's what several professional mead makers use.

 

[NeverDie]

Even 2 is likely overkill...

The Scott's lab handbook says to use dry wine yeast at 25 g / hl (which is basically one gram per gallon).

I use 2 g/gal because that's what several professional mead makers use.

View attachment 623227

Interesting. Even 2 grams/gallon is quite a lot less than the pitching rate that Bray recommends:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/current-mead-making-techniques.html

I wonder why there's such a large disparity of opinion?