Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[bob1852]

I wonder why there's such a large disparity of opinion?

Ask 10 brewers how to do something and you'll get 12 answers.

 

[Miraculix]

Interesting. Even 2 grams/gallon is quite a lot less than the pitching rate that Bray recommends:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/current-mead-making-techniques.html

I wonder why there's such a large disparity of opinion?

Because his way is maximising everything to knock it out in the smallest time frame possible. Those other recipe do not care so much about this aspect.

 

[Maylar]

And note that 2 gm/gal is twice what wine makers are used to. A typical 5 gm packet says good for 5 gallons.

 

[NeverDie]

What about yeast strains that seem to get off to a slower start? D21 seems to be one of those. Is there a case for pitching those yeast strains at a higher rate to ensure that they are by far the dominant micro-organism in the must? In contrast, Fresco or EC1118 takes off like a rocket in practically no time (if rehydrated, I can hear it already "sizzling" in the must within 10 minutes of pitching it), and so I'm less worried about pitching Fresco or EC1118 at 1-2 grams/gallon than I would be about pitching D21 at that rate.

That said, now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether sizzle is a good indicator for reproduction rate. Maybe D21 is reproducing just as quick, but is simply quieter?

 

[Maylar]

I think that rehydrating in GoFerm and pitching at room temp along with O2 will get the yeast to start as quickly as it can. I know that my D21 mead was really slow to start because my brew room was cold when I pitched it. I'm gonna invest in a blanket heater or something to make sure I can get 70-72° at pitch. It makes a difference in lag time.

 

[NeverDie]

And note that 2 gm/gal is twice what wine makers are used to. A typical 5 gm packet says good for 5 gallons.

OK, I'll give it a try. Mangrove Jack M05 Mead Yeast is 10g per packet, so I'll try pitching just one yeast packet at a 5 gallon batch of 1.105OG traditional mead (finger's crossed).

 

[NeverDie]

You kinda need 2 hydrometers, one that covers the 0.990 - 1.160 range and a finishing hydrometer for fine measurements. I got mine from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074D9FLNG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

OK, I just now ordered the finishing hydrometer that you linked to on Amazon.

Yesterday I acquried a "narrow range" hydrometer, thinking that it was the same thing, but it turns out that the "narrow range" is actually 0.990 through 1.13, so it's only a little narrower than a regular hydrometer. That said, it does have a tick mark for every point of specific gravity, unlike a regular hydrometer that has only every other tick mark.

 

[Redeemer]

So on the topic of yeast, I must say, Bray's Wyeast 1388 has been most impressive. I will admit I haven't made a straight up mead with it so far, just a cyser, but the results, 3 weeks from brew day to bottle really astounded me. After bottling I washed the yeast and got myself 4 good jars in the fridge. I am going to do a pure honey mead, as well as another project that I will post in another thread soon.

Also have a batch going with the Abaye that I saw in his write up in my JB-JAOM. That stuff won't quit, no matter how hot my office gets.

I know folks say EC-1118 blows the aromas out the airlock and that may be true but it seems quite clean, and it wants to go and go and go.If I had a way to cold crash it, this would be in the bottle. I racked into secondary a week ago because the SG had dropped to just below 1.000 and I called it good. Stuck it in my garage and the airlock has been bubbling like crazy ever since. Not sure what is left for the yeast to eat, but there it will sit until it is clear. Then I will prime and bottle. That is a raspberry (Fruit in primary only) cyser with some honey to fortify. I'm really looking forward to that one.

 

[Maylar]

OK, I'll give it a try. Mangrove Jack M05 Mead Yeast is 10g per packet, so I'll try pitching just one yeast packet at a 5 gallon batch of 1.105OG traditional mead (finger's crossed).

What honey will you use for this? Have you started it yet? If this will be an official mead attempt I have a couple suggestions that can improve your end results.

 

[NeverDie]

What honey will you use for this? Have you started it yet? If this will be an official mead attempt I have a couple suggestions that can improve your end results.

Haven't started it yet. Instead started a two gallon D21, a two gallon DV10, and a 4 gallon Hornindal Kveik.

Not sure which honey I'll use yet for the large batch of M05.

I'm very interested in hearing your suggestions.

 

[Maylar]

Haven't started it yet. Instead started a two gallon D21, a two gallon DV10, and a 4 gallon Hornindal Kveik.

Not sure which honey I'll use yet for the large batch of M05.

I'm very interested in hearing your suggestions.

- Use some of this: https://morewinemaking.com/products/optiwhite.html - 1.9 gm per gallon.
- Stir your honey in aggressively such that you aerate the must prior to pitching. Repeat at 12 and 24 hrs. If you have an O2 tank and stone, better still.
- Rehydrate the yeast in GoFerm, regardless of what it says on the packet.
- Wait until you see visible evidence of fermentation before adding the first nutrient dose. Usually that'll be at the 24 hr mark, but only if there are signs. Otherwise you're feeding the bad guys.
- TOSNA 3.0 https://www.meadmaderight.com/tosna.html - I can't find anything on M05's nitrogen needs but medium should be OK.
- Bentonite dry a couple days into fermentation.

Dunno what to match M05 with for honey. The description says the yeast leaves fresh floral notes when fermented cool. What's a floral honey? And how cool can you keep it?

 

[NeverDie]

- Stir your honey in aggressively such that you aerate the must prior to pitching. Repeat at 12 and 24 hrs.

How much is "aggressively"? With these larger batches, I'm using one of these on a drill: https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Bre...gassing+drill&qid=1556125994&s=gateway&sr=8-1

which works great for stirring in the honey. But how long to run it for in order to "aggressively" aerate? For nutrient additions I run just briefly at slow speed to de-gas the initial burst of CO2 and then later switch to high speed for maybe a minute of high speed aeration.

By the way, Hornindal requires a lot of extra nitrogen to stay happy and avoid emitting SO2. Still not sure exactly how much it needs, but maybe 2-3x what the BOMM 1388 recipe calls for.

 

[Maylar]

That lees stirrer is exactly what I have. I guess "aggressively" is enough to create a vortex and some bubbles. The idea is to add oxygen, so anything is better than not. I do have an O2 stone, and about 30 seconds of that pretty much saturates the must with oxygen. Some people use an aquarium pump to blow air for 15 minutes, but even that doesn't measure up to the O2 stone and oxy tank.

I'm surprised that there's no references anywhere as to M05's YAN requirements.

 

[RPh_Guy]

By the way, Hornindal requires a lot of extra nitrogen to stay happy and avoid emitting SO2. Still not sure exactly how much it needs, but maybe 2-3x what the BOMM 1388 recipe calls for.

H2S*

I'm curious, how much Hornindal are you pitching? At what temperature is it fermenting?
It seems to not respond well to lower temperature and overpitching.

@Maylar Do you always use Opti-white? Do you ever combine with tannins (e.g. FT Blanc Soft) or oak?

 

[NeverDie]

I'm surprised that there's no references anywhere as to M05's YAN requirements.

All I know is that in the earlier yeast round-up test batch I gave M05 the same nitrogen and nutrients as used by the 1388 BOMM recipe, and I'm happy with how it turned out.

 

[Maylar]

H2S*

@Maylar Do you always use Opti-white? Do you ever combine with tannins (e.g. FT Blanc Soft) or oak?

I just started using it, on the recommendation of Ryan Carlson over at GotMead. There's another one called Booster Blanc that he recommends too, but I'm not sure if that one is strictly for the Lalvin ICV strains or if it works with other yeasts too. Yes, combined with oak too. And I have a cyser running now with Opti White and FT Blanc Soft that I can't wait to taste.

Ryan says these Specific Inactivated Yeasts (SIY) make an awesome difference, especially in session meads where mouthfeel and body are lacking because of low honey.

 

[NeverDie]

H2S*

I'm curious, how much Hornindal are you pitching? At what temperature is it fermenting?
It seems to not respond well to lower temperature and overpitching.

Room temperature (around 72F, give or take), so the very bottom of Hornindal's advertised range. I pitched one Omega Hornindal liquid yeast into what is now 3 gallons of must. However, I stepped it up from 1/2 gallon initially to then 1 gallon to then 2 gallons and now at 3 gallons. Later I'll add more must to bring it to either 3.5 or 3.75 gallons total in the 4 gallon demijohn.

 

[NeverDie]

Some people use an aquarium pump to blow air for 15 minutes, but even that doesn't measure up to the O2 stone and oxy tank.

I can run even these large containers on my stir plate, so I've been doing that and just letting it run for hours at a time like that. I haven't yet tried an oxy tank. Which oxy kit did you get? I've read some reviews, and it seems (?) some may work better than others.

 

[Maylar]

I can run even these large containers on my stir plate, so I've been doing that and just letting it run for hours at a time like that. I haven't yet tried an oxy tank. Which oxy kit did you get? I've read some reviews, and it seems (?) some may work better than others.

I have one like this - https://www.amazon.com/HomeBrewStuff-Oxygenation-Stainless-Fermentation-Propagation/dp/B01F2OBAI4

wand, stone, regulator.. not sure where I got it from. Home Depot sells the Bernzomatic O2 tanks.

 

[NeverDie]

I'm curious, how much Hornindal are you pitching? At what temperature is it fermenting?
It seems to not respond well to lower temperature and overpitching.

I've tried Hornindal about 4 or 5 times now. The reason I tend to think the H2S may be caused by low nitrogen is that if I pitch Hornindal into a DME stepped starter, I don't get H2S. However, without DME and just a honey plus nutrients stepped starter, sooner or later I have almost always gotten H2S emissions, at which point adding nitrogen and "aggressively" aerating it rescues it. I'm finally seeing enough of the pattern that I'm now adding a lot more Fermaid-O in an attempt to stay ahead of and hopefully prevent the H2S problem.

 

[RPh_Guy]

If you're able to overcome the stress with more nutrients, then it's all good.
I think a high fermentation temp (and possibly lower pitch rate) would likely reduce the nutrient requirements.


On an unrelated note...
Did you determine whether holding temperature during yeast rehydration is any better than letting it free fall?

@Maylar
Awesome, thanks! I have a lot of new things to try with my next batch of mead.

 

[Maylar]

If you're able to overcome the stress with more nutrients, then it's all good.
I think a high fermentation temp (and possibly lower pitch rate) would likely reduce the nutrient requirements.

From my cider experience, I believe the opposite is true. Cold temps slow fermentation and the yeast need less nutrients.

 

[NeverDie]

What's the best way to decide how much nitrogen (YAN) is needed? Is it just the minimum needed to avoid H2S? Or, do other factors play a role in deciding, and, if so, what are they?

Hornindal can have a nice mango aroma, so presently I'm trying it keep it in that zone. However, that's just my wild guess for how to monitor and adjust.

I've read that having too much DAP can have unfortunate flavor consequences. Is the same true for too Fermaid-O? Because if there's no downside to using too much Fermaid-O, I'd rather err on the side of too much than too little.

 

[RPh_Guy]

From my cider experience, I believe the opposite is true. Cold temps slow fermentation and the yeast need less nutrients.

Kveik violates all the rules for traditional Sacc strains.

 

[Maylar]

Okey doke.

 

[NeverDie]

On an unrelated note...
Did you determine whether holding temperature during yeast rehydration is any better than letting it free fall?

I honestly know whether it helps or not, but I'm still using the digital coffee cup warmer to hold the yeast+GoFerm solution at 100F+ for the full 20 minutes. I assume there's a reason for wanting it to be 104F in the first place, and so to me it just seems to make sense. Originally I was holding it at 104F, but then I got worried that maybe the solution at the bottom of the beaker, near the heating element, was maybe getting hotter than 104F. As I didn't want to fry the poor little yeasties, I settled on 100F as being the safe temperature to hold it at.

 

[NeverDie]

- Use some of this: https://morewinemaking.com/products/optiwhite.html - 1.9 gm per gallon.

I'll give that a try in the next batch.

In the three large batches that I have just recently started I've added ascorbic acid as an anti-oxidant. It's so little that I doubt it has a flavor impact. If any of these things actually work, then it's well worth the money.

 

[NeverDie]

I purchased one of these 5 gallon $30 glass carboys: https://www.austinhomebrew.com/5-Gallon-Glass-Wide-Mouth-Carboy_p_7990.html

Most glass carboys have a domed bottom, which makes keeping a stir bar on it difficult at high speeds. With this carboy, on the other hand, there's a divot in the center of the glass bottom, so it should be much easier to keep the stir bar in place at those higher speeds. That's my theory at least.

 

[NeverDie]

Amazing how quickly things can change: one moment the Hordindal smelled like mango, and a short while later it went sulfurous on me again, but this time more nutrients and aeration didn't help. I may end up having to dump it.

Next time I'll try underpitching it and only doing higher temperatures. This turned out to be an expensive lesson.

Just how much underpitching does it need?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Amazing how quickly things can change: one moment the Hordindal smelled like mango, and a short while later it went sulfurous on me again, but this time more nutrients and aeration didn't help. I may end up having to dump it.

Next time I'll try underpitching it and only doing higher temperatures. This turned out to be an expensive lesson.

Just how much underpitching does it need?

>90°F would be good if you can maintain that.
I would avoid pitching more than more than 30B cells per gallon.