Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

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If you're able to overcome the stress with more nutrients, then it's all good.
I think a high fermentation temp (and possibly lower pitch rate) would likely reduce the nutrient requirements.


On an unrelated note...
Did you determine whether holding temperature during yeast rehydration is any better than letting it free fall?

@Maylar
Awesome, thanks! I have a lot of new things to try with my next batch of mead.
 
RPh_Guy said:
If you're able to overcome the stress with more nutrients, then it's all good.
I think a high fermentation temp (and possibly lower pitch rate) would likely reduce the nutrient requirements.
Click to expand...

From my cider experience, I believe the opposite is true. Cold temps slow fermentation and the yeast need less nutrients.
 
What's the best way to decide how much nitrogen (YAN) is needed? Is it just the minimum needed to avoid H2S? Or, do other factors play a role in deciding, and, if so, what are they?

Hornindal can have a nice mango aroma, so presently I'm trying it keep it in that zone. However, that's just my wild guess for how to monitor and adjust.

I've read that having too much DAP can have unfortunate flavor consequences. Is the same true for too Fermaid-O? Because if there's no downside to using too much Fermaid-O, I'd rather err on the side of too much than too little.
 
RPh_Guy said:
On an unrelated note...
Did you determine whether holding temperature during yeast rehydration is any better than letting it free fall?
Click to expand...

I honestly know whether it helps or not, but I'm still using the digital coffee cup warmer to hold the yeast+GoFerm solution at 100F+ for the full 20 minutes. I assume there's a reason for wanting it to be 104F in the first place, and so to me it just seems to make sense. Originally I was holding it at 104F, but then I got worried that maybe the solution at the bottom of the beaker, near the heating element, was maybe getting hotter than 104F. As I didn't want to fry the poor little yeasties, I settled on 100F as being the safe temperature to hold it at.
 
I purchased one of these 5 gallon $30 glass carboys: https://www.austinhomebrew.com/5-Gallon-Glass-Wide-Mouth-Carboy_p_7990.html

Most glass carboys have a domed bottom, which makes keeping a stir bar on it difficult at high speeds. With this carboy, on the other hand, there's a divot in the center of the glass bottom, so it should be much easier to keep the stir bar in place at those higher speeds. That's my theory at least.
 
Amazing how quickly things can change: one moment the Hordindal smelled like mango, and a short while later it went sulfurous on me again, but this time more nutrients and aeration didn't help. I may end up having to dump it.

Next time I'll try underpitching it and only doing higher temperatures. This turned out to be an expensive lesson.

Just how much underpitching does it need?
 
NeverDie said:
Amazing how quickly things can change: one moment the Hordindal smelled like mango, and a short while later it went sulfurous on me again, but this time more nutrients and aeration didn't help. I may end up having to dump it.

Next time I'll try underpitching it and only doing higher temperatures. This turned out to be an expensive lesson.

Just how much underpitching does it need?
Click to expand...
>90°F would be good if you can maintain that.
I would avoid pitching more than more than 30B cells per gallon.
 
RPh_Guy said:
>90°F would be good if you can maintain that.
I would avoid pitching more than more than 30B cells per gallon.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Epilog: I was about to give up, but then the Hornindal batch finally did end up reverting back to mango from its sulfurous state, so apparently the nutrients and aeration did work--it just took longer for it to turn around than previously. So, fingers crossed on getting this 3.5 gallon batch of Hornindal over the finish line without it going sulfurous again.
 
I guess it should come as no surprise, but with all the "extra" YAN that I've added to the Hornindal's must, the rate of fermentation, as continuously measured by a TILT, has sped up considerably. Earlier, on average, the SG was decreasing by roughly one point per hour. Now, with all the extra YAN, the SG is decreasing 4x faster, or about one point every 15 minutes. Also, the fermentation is now so active that I can actually hear it from across the room.
 
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Maylar said:
You kinda need 2 hydrometers, one that covers the 0.990 - 1.160 range and a finishing hydrometer for fine measurements. I got mine from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074D9FLNG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Click to expand...

Reporting back: I received this finishing hydrometer today. It's a very nice instrument, and I look forward to using it for checking whether fermentation is done. It does, however, read distilled water at 0.999SG instead of 1.000SG. I guess that's just how it is with a lot of hydrometers.
 
NeverDie said:
Reporting back: I received this finishing hydrometer today. It's a very nice instrument, and I look forward to using it for checking whether fermentation is done. It does, however, read distilled water at 0.999SG instead of 1.000SG. I guess that's just how it is with a lot of hydrometers.
Click to expand...
Take note of the calibration temperature.

If yours is calibrated for 60°F like mine, it affects the reading when read above 67°F.
Screenshot_20190425-175438.png
 
I think while I still have a very active colony of the Hornindal I'm going to use it to innoculate a couple small test batches, which I'll heat to 90F+ and get a better idea as to just how much extra nutrients Hornindal needs. At the moment 3x nutrients seems like the ballpark, but I'm unsure whether that's only nitrogen or perhaps also additional Fermaid K and/or potassium too. Is there any chance it might need more than the BOMM prescribed amounts of those as well?
 
NeverDie said:
I think while I still have a very active colony of the Hornindal I'm going to use it to innoculate a couple small test batches, which I'll heat to 90F+ and get a better idea as to just how much extra nutrients Hornindal needs. At the moment 3x nutrients seems like the ballpark, but I'm unsure whether that's only nitrogen or perhaps also additional Fermaid K and/or potassium too. Is there any chance it might need more than the BOMM prescribed amounts of those as well?
Click to expand...
FYI it's reported by the guy at Omega to require about 1/3 more nutrient than the "high" setting for TOSNA.
 
RPh_Guy said:
FYI it's reported by the guy at Omega to require about 1/3 more nutrient than the "high" setting for TOSNA.
Click to expand...

Is the same true for Hothead and Voss?

I'll do two half-gallon test batches: 1 at room temperature again, and the other at 92F. For both I'll use the same 1.33x TOSNA nutrients. I'll pitch them both with the same amount of Hornindal (basically 1/3 the volume will be must from the current Hornindal batch that's now at about 1.11SG and still falling quickly).
 
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Sorry, I misspoke. It's the guy from Mainiacal Yeast Labs (Justin Amaral; if anyone's an expert on kveik and other wild yeast in mead, it's him) -- and I'm getting this second-hand -- but he's quoted as referring to all "kveik" needing 1/3 more nutrient.

Other anecdotes I see suggest that Hornindal in particular does not require more nutrient than other strains when fermented hot, only adjusted timing. So as always, YMMV.
 
Came across this info re Kveik yeasts -- it's in relation to beer but I'm guessing is applicable to whatever ya pinch it in. Dude says one key to get most outta it is to Under-pinch it...he suggests 1tsp slurry to 25litres...hmmm

http://www.garshol.priv.no/blog/393.html
 
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RPh_Guy said:
Sorry, I misspoke. It's the guy from Mainiacal Yeast Labs (Justin Amaral; if anyone's an expert on kveik and other wild yeast in mead, it's him) -- and I'm getting this second-hand -- but he's quoted as referring to all "kveik" needing 1/3 more nutrient.

Other anecdotes I see suggest that Hornindal in particular does not require more nutrient than other strains when fermented hot, only adjusted timing. So as always, YMMV.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by adjusted timing?

The two test batches are up and running now. I ended up using just 200ml of must for each to innoculate them to better ensure that it's underpitched.
 
NeverDie said:
What do you mean by adjusted timing?
Click to expand...
TOSNA nutrients are added at roughly particular times so the nutrients are available when needed ...but kviek fermenting at 90-100°F is so rapid that the additions need to be added much sooner than normal.
My understanding of TOSNA is that the first addition should be shortly after the yeast starts to show activity, then the next two at similar intervals, and the final at or before the 1/3 break.

In beer it's common for kveik to complete fermentation in 18-36 hours. My guess is it won't be quite so fast in mead, but still far more rapid than "normal". My sour ale with Hornindal finished in about 72 hours at 95°F.
Your tilt should help a lot with whatever SNA protocol you're using.
 
I typed up my raw notes and added them to my previous yeast ranking:


Yeast Roundup, Version 1.3

Drinkable as-is:
1. Voss Kveik. Score: 970, 1.085OG. 0.993FG (correction: 0.995FG) Slight grapey or winelike flavor. No real aroma. Costco hone Pitched 3/6. Added 2x DAP 3/7 because smelled sulfurous. 2 hour degass 4/7. Almost clear, but very hazy 4/12. Cold crash 4/12. Bentonite 4/13. Crystl clear 4/14. Stabilized 4/18.

2. M05 Score: 960. 1.105OG, 0.995FG (correction:0.997FG). Great taste. May still be fermenting. Costco honey. Pitched 3/15. Racked 4/14. Stabilized 4/17.

3. Fresco. Score: 950, 1.103OG, 0.994FG (correction:0.996FG). Walker Wildflower honey. Not much aroma, but tastes good and very drinkable even as is. Basically a "clean" taste. Chemex filtered. Orangey color. Pitched 3/19. Fully degass 3/27. Degassed again 4/4. Super degassed 4/7. Fermentation confirmed "done" on 4/11. Racket 4/8. 4 hour degassed 4/9. Still highly hazy 4/13. Cold crashed 4/13. Bentonite 4/14. Filtered 4/16. Stabilized 4/17.

4. Wyeast Sweet Mead. Score: 945, 1.085OG. 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG). Cherry notes. Drinkable as-is. Costco honey. Orange color. Crystal clear 4/4. Degassed 4/6. Stabilized 4/18.

5. M31. Score: 943, 1.105OG, 0.996FG (correction: 0.998FG). (0.998FG measured by TILT prior to dilution). Costco honey. Pitched 3/15. Needed some extra nitrogen. Bentonite 4/18. Stabilized 4/18. 19 hour degassing 1/19. Sleight band-aid flavor. Hot flavor.

6. Fresco. Score: 940, 1.085OG, 0.997FG (correction: 0.999FG). Clear. Not much unique taste or aroma. However, drinkable as is. Costco honey. Chemex filtered. Pitched 3/8. Done 4/1, but heavy haze never cleared. Racked 4/8. 12 hour degass 4/9. Medium hazy, cold crash 4/13. 1/2 teaspoon bentonite 4/14. Filtered 4/15. Stabilized 4/17.

7. KV-1116. Score: 850, OG 1.105OG, 0.996FG (correction: 0.998FG). Slight bluecheese aroma. Fruity, winelike taste. Drinkable as-is. Costco honey. GoFerm rehydration. Pitched 3/15. Racked 4/14. Stabilized 4/17. Hazy.

8. S-04. Score: 830, 1.085OG, 0.991FG (correction: 0.993FG). Slight dried fruit aroma. neutral taste. Needs filtering. Drinkable as-is. Walmart honey. Pitched 3/4. Repitched 3/6 with 12 grams yeast. Clear 4/8. 3 hour degassing 4/8. Confirmed done 4/14. Stabilized 4/18.

9. D47. Score: 800, 1.085OG, 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG). Slight fruity flavor. Very faint honey notes. Faint fruity aroma. Extremely clear. Drinable as-is. Walmart honey. Pitched 3/5. Crystal clear. Degassed 4/5. Stabilized 4/17.

10. KV-1116. Score: 790, 1.085OG, 0.993FG (correction: 0.995FG). No real aroma or taste. Completely clear. Drinkable as-is. Costco honey. Pitched 3/7. Clear 4/1. 3 hours degassed 4/8. Medium hazy, cold crash 4/13. Bentonite 4/14. Filtered 4/16. Stabilized 4/17.

11. Fresco Cyser. Score: 750, 1.085OG, 0.998FG (correction: 1.000FG) Costco RAW honey. Sam's club apple juice. Drinkable as-is. Apple notes in taste and aroma. Racked 4/8. 4 hour degassed 4/9. 1/2 teaspoon pectic enzyme 4/10. Bentonite added. Crystal clear 4/14. Filtered 4/15. Stabilized 4/17.

Not good for drinking as-is. Maybe backsweetening or oaking or aging or something would help:
12. DV10. Score: 675. 1.085OG. reading: 0.992FG (measured on "narrow range" hydrometer. No correction needed). Comments: Watery. no real flavor per se. Costco honey. Pitched 3/6. Clear 4/1. 2 hour degass 4/7. Medium hazy, cold crash 4/13. Bentonite 4/14. Filtered 4/15. Stabilized 4/19.

13. CdB. Score: 625, 1.085OG, 0.993FG (correction:0.995FG). Faint fruity aroma. Sleight malty taste. A bit too plain to be drinkable by itself without backsweetening. Walmart honey (overshot by ~50g). Clear 4/8. Racked 4/8. Degassed 4/8. Very hazy, cold crash 4/12. Bentonite 4/13. Crystal clear 4/14. Filtered 4/17. Stabilized 4/17.

14. 71B. Score: 600, 1.085OG. 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG). No real aroma. Slight malty taste. Walmart honey. Pitched 3/4. Fermentation confirmed "done" on 4/4. Racked 4/5. Degassed 4/6. Very hazy 4/12. cold crashed 4/12. Bentonite 4/13. Crystal clear 4/14. emex filtered 4/14. Stabilized 4/18. Fairly clear.

15. 1388. Score: 400, 1.085OG. 0.996FG (correction: 0.998FG). No real aroma. Malty taste. Chemex filtered. Cosco honey. Pitched 3/4. Degassed 4/6. Still not clear 4/12. Cold crash 4/12. Bentonite 4/13.

16. 71B (10 grams). Score: 350, Goferm rehydration. 1.105OG, 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG) Slight bluecheese aroma. Neutral, "hot" taste. Aroma is a problem. Goodflow Mesquite honey. Pitched 3/18. Racked 3/29 (forgot to sanitize new container). Cold crashed for a week. Looked clear. Transfered to PET bottle. Stabilized 4/18. Still looks very hazy.

Marginal:
17. EC1118. Score: 300, 1.085OG. 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG). Sleight wet cardboard aroma. Sleight band-aid flavor. Costco honey. Pitched 3/12. Clear 4/1. Racked 4/4. 3 hour degassing 4/8. Confirmed done 4/8. Stabilized 4/18.

18. Fleishman's Bread Yeast. Score: 200, 1.085OG. 0.992FG (correction: 0.994FG). Slight fruity aroma. Slight cardboard taste. Costco honey. Pitched 3/3. Clear 4/8. Racked 4/9. 3 hour degassed 4/9. Highly hazy 4/13. Cold crash 4/13. Bentonite 4/14. Filtered 4/16. Stabilized 4/18.

19. QA23. 150. OG 1.103, 0.996FG (0.999FG prior to dilution). Costco honey. Pitched 3/25. Added additional 1/2 teaspoon DAP on 3/28. Racked 4/16. 13 hour degassing 4/17. Bentonite 4/17. Stabilized 4/18.

Bad (I didn't measure their FG, in case they were infected).
20. D21. Score: 100. 1.085OG. Borderline band-aid taste. Poured down the drain.

21. Belle Saison. Score: 70. 1.085OG. Band-aid taste. Poured down the drain.

22. Premier Cuvee. Score: 60. 1.085OG. Started 3/3. Done 4/1, but never cleared: has a heavy haze. Blue cheese aroma. Band-aid taste. Poured down the drain.

23. Premier Blanc. Score: 0. 1.085OG. Strong band-aid taste. Poured down the drain. Costco honey.

New Test Batches in Progress
Differences from earlier BOMM test batches:
  • higher gravity
  • Calcium Chloride
  • Ascorbic acid
  • Larger batch size
  • Aeration by degassing wand.

24. D21. 1.105OG. 2 gallon batch. Pitched 4/22/2019. Goferm. Slight orangey color. Costco honey.

25. DV10. 1.105OG. 2 gallon batch. Pitched 4/22/2019. Direct pitch.

26. Hornindal Kveik. 1.105OG. 4 gallon batch. Pitched 4/22/2019. Stepped starter.

Planned New Test Batches
27. Hothead. 1.105OG. 3 gallon batch. Not yet pitched

28. Mangrove Jack's M05. 1.105OG. 3 gallon batch. Not yet pitched.
 
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By the way, I'm doing a pair-wise comparison of the stabilized meads, and it looks as though the relative rankings will change a bit. Presently M05 is #1 and Fresco is #2. I need to redo Voss Kveik at a higher OG to properly compare it (maybe the Hornindal Kveik will be a proxy for that when it's finished), but it has moved down some in the rankings, at least until then.
 
Have you tried to get rid of the sulfate aroma by stirring it with a copper pipe for a minute? Everything copper works for this. There are also those copper pads for cleaning. They also work (if without detergent or soap). A friend of mine recently safed a sulfur bomb beer with this. From rotten eggs to nice lager in 2 minutes.

Don't leave it in there, just stir it a bit with the copper. The sulfor will bind to it and will be out of the brew or mead.
 
Miraculix said:
Have you tried to get rid of the sulfate aroma by stirring it with a copper pipe for a minute? Everything copper works for this. There are also those copper pads for cleaning. They also work (if without detergent or soap). A friend of mine recently safed a sulfur bomb beer with this. From rotten eggs to nice lager in 2 minutes.

Don't leave it in there, just stir it a bit with the copper. The sulfor will bind to it and will be out of the brew or mead.
Click to expand...
Seconding this. Have done it succesfully with highly-acidic fruit wines. There's also a TTB-compliant product from Scott Labs called Reduless which can do this (I have used it, and copper, successfully).
 
I did a cider with the scrub pads. My advice is make sure they are copper and not copper coated steel. It will still work, but not as well.
 
I think my sulfurous problems were from inadequate nutrients. For instance, I'm presently doing a couple small test batches of Hornindal, which had previously required a lot of heroic rescues from sulfurous emissions, but with these test batches I dialed the nutrients way up, and, at least so far, no sulfurous smells this time around. If the fermentations complete with no problems, then I'll try some more test batches, progressively dialing down the nutrients until it becomes a problem again. Then I'll know what the minimums are. I wish there were an easier way....

Now, if there were a magic solution for getting rid of bandaid flavor after it occurs, I'd certainly be interested in that. Is there? It is presently the only outright failure mode I'm encountering, and by the time I notice it, it's too late.
 
NeverDie said:
I think my sulfurous problems were from inadequate nutrients. For instance, I'm presently doing a couple small test batches of Hornindal, which had previously required a lot of heroic rescues from sulfurous emissions, but with these test batches I dialed the nutrients way up, and, at least so far, no sulfurous smells this time around. If the fermentations complete with no problems, then I'll try some more test batches, progressively dialing down the nutrients until it becomes a problem again. Then I'll know what the minimums are. I wish there were an easier way....

Now, if there were a magic solution for getting rid of bandaid flavor after it occurs, I'd certainly be interested in that. Is there? It is presently the only outright failure mode I'm encountering, and by the time I notice it, it's too late.
Click to expand...

Yes, good idea to get to know about minimum nute requirements. I just suggested the copper solution for you so that you do not have to dump all the mead that got sulforous.

Bandaid is forever I'm afraid...
 
I'm still pinning it down, but the very early, very preliminary results are that Hornindal requires a lot more potassium bicarbonate to avoid going sulfurous than is prescribed in the BOMM recipe. Maybe as much as 4x more.

Anyone else also found this to be true?

i'm testing Hornindal, because out of the three Kveiks--Hornindal, Hothead, and Voss--it seems the most prone to going sulfurous.
 
NeverDie said:
I'm still pinning it down, but the very early, very preliminary results are that Hornindal requires a lot more potassium bicarbonate to avoid going sulfurous than is prescribed in the BOMM recipe. Maybe as much as 4x more.

Anyone else also found this to be true?

i'm testing Hornindal, because out of the three Kveiks--Hornindal, Hothead, and Voss--it seems the most prone to going sulfurous.
Click to expand...

OK, then, I just now started a new small test batch with 4x the potassium bicarbonate added at the very beginning. Fingers crossed on it eliminating the occurrence of sulfurous odors by Hornindal....
 
RPh_Guy said:
You might want to try WLP644. It has a similar ester profile, and is easier to handle.
Click to expand...
Have you tried it?

So much seems to depend on getting the right nutrition/handling protocol, and not enough of the right info seems to be published about the available yeasts.
 

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