What's the secret to brewing a REALLY clean tasting IPA?

[fendersrule]

I've never been able to brew an IPA that was as clean as any of the craft IPAs.

Basic question: What's the secret to making the hops shine through 100% and absolutely zero yeast or yeast byproduct taste? Fermentation temps? Certain strain of yeast at a specific temp?

I've been so unhappy with my IPAs and most of my pale ales that I just stopped. Is there a secret that I should know so that I can get back into brewing them?

 

[RM-MN]

1. Temperature control during fermentation.
2. Yeast choice.
3. Mineral adjustment to water.

 

[LittleRiver]

4. Closed transfer to a CO2 purged keg

 

[Still Brewn]

Use a secondary fermentor.
Cold crash with some gelatin for a couple of days before tranfer to keg.
1/2 teaspoon gelatin into 1/4 cup of water
Heat to 150° in the microwave in 7 second intervals stirring after each
I usually maintain the 150 temperature for a few minutes to make sure it is sterile before dumping into my beer.
If you don't want to use a secondary clod crash until cold then add the gelatin. Let sit for a few days then transfer to keg.
Some people cold crash then transfer to keg and add gelatin. I have done it that way and liked the results better from cold crash then gelatin then transfer.

This one was the result of a secondary 1 week, cold crash for 2 days, gelatin for 4 days then transfer to keg.

 

[Still Brewn]

I also have a hose that connects to the spigot on my fermenter the other end has a quick disconnect that hooks up to the tap side of the keg..... so no splashing of the beer during tranfer.

 

[fendersrule]

Clean looking I don't really care about. I'm more interested in the taste part!

What yeast and fermentation temps do you guys use? I don't keg nor use secondaries.

I tried using US-05 at 58-61F and it was disgusting and created a dumper.

 

[johngg123]

100% oxidation management. Flush everything with CO2 especially when dry hopping and kegging.

I never secondary and have had great results (award winning.)

 

[johngg123]

and ferment with a starter of WLP 001 @ 65-69 F.

 

[Dgallo]

1. Temperature control during fermentation.
2. Yeast choice.
3. Mineral adjustment to water.

Great list ^. I would also add minimizing o2 ingest and oxidation as number 2 and bump the other back one.

 

[Dgallo]

Clean looking I don't really care about. I'm more interested in the taste part!

What yeast and fermentation temps do you guys use? I don't keg nor use secondaries.

I tried using US-05 at 58-61F and it was disgusting and created a dumper.

A colder side 05 shouldn’t in its self create a dumper. I would think you never raised it once final gravity to let the yeast clean up, didn’t pitch enough, or had oxidation issues. If it was the first two I mentioned their would have been a fair amount of VDK or acetaldehyde, both in high levels would make you want to dump it. Vdk is buttery/butterscotch and acetaldehyde is like tart/sweet green apple/cider flavors

 

[mattd2]

Clean looking I don't really care about. I'm more interested in the taste part!

What yeast and fermentation temps do you guys use? I don't keg nor use secondaries.

I tried using US-05 at 58-61F and it was disgusting and created a dumper.

Isn't that a bit low for US05? I normally would ferment with it around 68F. I have heard it will throw some weird peach-like flavours (and not in a good way) if it is too low

 

[Still Brewn]

Clean looking I don't really care about. I'm more interested in the taste part!

What yeast and fermentation temps do you guys use? I don't keg nor use secondaries.

I tried using US-05 at 58-61F and it was disgusting and created a dumper.

That one pictured was made with a heave dose of Falconers Fleight, fermented at 68° for 9 days brought up to 72° over 4 days. Rested at 72 for 2 or 3 more days. The yeast was US-05. My light beer drinking friends loved it. It lasted one weekend.

 

[fendersrule]

A colder side 05 shouldn’t in its self create a dumper. I would think you never raised it once final gravity to let the yeast clean up, didn’t pitch enough, or had oxidation issues. If it was the first two I mentioned their would have been a fair amount of VDK or acetaldehyde, both in high levels would make you want to dump it. Vdk is buttery/butterscotch and acetaldehyde is like tart/sweet green apple/cider flavors

I had it at 58-61 for the first 3 days. Then I moved it away from the A/C vent and allowed it to get up to 68. My house is 70F. once I noticed it was nearing 70F, I "mistakingly" placed it back on the A/C vent to allow it to cool again. I then placed it off the vent a week later and let it get up to room temp for a a week or so. After 3 weeks I was getting ready to bottle. The taste was VERY off..like "bad" off.....I dumped it. I don't even know how to describe it. IMO, after fermentation, your beer should taste "good" when drinking from the hydro tube. This....I had no faith in it ever tasting good. Probably my bad, but still.....I don't think I trust US-05 at 60F....probably better to use Nottingham.

I also have "not worried" about US-05 and just let it ferment an IPA once at room temp (with window cracked in early spring). It got a little over 70F...and maybe 74-75F eventually after a couple weeks due to some remodeling I was doing. It was disgusting. There was yeast "speckles" in it. Hop taste was non existent. Fusel alochol taste. I dumped that one out too.

Since then, I've learned really good way of controlling temps for the first 3 days (64-66F) then just letting it "finish" at 68F for a few weeks, but I have a very "mediocre" history with US-05...it's been punishing me for the lighter beers whenever I bring it to the extremes.

I really would like to know, if you do use US-05, do you a) rehydrate, and b) what temp do you ferment it for a very clean IPA. I know it is NOT 72-74 in my experience (created a dumper). I have a hunch that 60F will create a dumper as well (or because I did the cool + warm + cool cycle).

 

[RPh_Guy]

The only substitute for proper temp control is using a yeast that doesn't care about proper temp control.
Proximity to an A/C vent simply won't cut it in my experience with US-05. I really don't like the esters it gives.

Consider switching to a clean kveik yeast like hothead.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I have heard it will throw some weird peach-like flavours (and not in a good way) if it is too low

There are a couple of highly regarded brewers in the various forums who experience peach-like flavors from US-05 in the 55-60* F range.

I'm of the opinion that peach flavors with US-05 is something that some people can taste but others are 'blind' to it.

I went looking for peach with US-05 last winter with some one gallon test batches (basement ambient temperature gets to 55* F). I ended up making good beer - but no peach flavors. And, honestly, if I'm 'blind' to peach flavors from US-05, I'm OK with that.

 

[fendersrule]

The only substitute for proper temp control is using a yeast that doesn't care about proper temp control.
Proximity to an A/C vent simply won't cut it in my experience with US-05. I really don't like the esters it gives.

Consider switching to a clean kveik yeast like hothead.

That's kinda my point of the thread...I'd rather leave US-05 because I really haven't had a "damn good" IPA/Pale, even with my "successful" ones that didn't fail. Every time I try to meddle with the extremes of US-05 it gets finicky. At this point I ask myself, "why not just buy IPAs?"

I may consider using Nottingham for my next IPA. It has a lower range than US-05....people that use Nottingham can attest to some super clean tasting stuff in the mid 50s even. It seems to like cold fermentation better. I can easily maintain 64-66F for the first 3 days, so I do have a temp control method. I've learned after those first few crucial days that most ale yeasts at that point don't mind going up to room temps for the remaining point of fermentation. That's been my latest working knowledge with the beers I have fermenting now...

I don't do starters. I do however rehydrate if using dry yeast. I used a Wyeast "smack pack" for my latest brew that I did.

Maybe I will give US-05 another try, but this time apply my 64-66F method for the first 3 days, then just let it ride at 68F.....

 

[Dgallo]

I had it at 58-61 for the first 3 days. Then I moved it away from the A/C vent and allowed it to get up to 68. My house is 70F. once I noticed it was nearing 70F, I "mistakingly" placed it back on the A/C vent to allow it to cool again. I think placed it off the vent a week later and let it get up to room temp for a few days. After 3 weeks I was getting ready to bottle. The taste was VERY off.....I dumped it.

I also have "not worried" about US-05 and just let it ferment an IPA once at room temp (with Window Cracked). It got a little over 70F...and maybe 74-75F eventually after a couple weeks. It was disgusting. There was yeast "speckles" in it. Hop taste was non existent. Fusel alochol taste. I dumped that one out to.

Since then, I've learned really good way of controlling temps for the first 3 days, then just letting it "finish" at 68F for a few weeks, but I have a very "mediocre" history with US-05...it's been punishing me for the lighter beers.

Fusel is a yeast stress flavor usually from warmer temps. lack of hop flavor in a beer with a lot of hops is typically oxidation. You say you leave it for a couple of weeks. How long we talking? A healthy fermentation is usually 3-5 days until fg is it (some variations occur from beer to beer). so after fg, 3 days of clean up and dryhoping; puts you at 10-14 days. Shouldn’t keep an ipa in for much longer than that unless you can seal off the fermenter or hook it up to co2. IPAs can oxidize rather easy, especially as the dryhops go up.

Also You really should look into some form of temp control. Driving a fermentation with temps steps is fine for some strains but Going up, down, up,down is stressful to yeast and they throw all sorts of off flavors because of this.

 

[fendersrule]

Yes, please read above post. I explain my temp control method that I am able to do consistantly.

My general timeline for any kind of ale fermentation that is dry hopped is:

Day 1-4: 64-66F held
Day 5-13: 68-69F held
Day 14-18: 68-69F held, dry hopped w/ pellets.
Day 19: Bottle.

A beer that is not dry hopped I usually do this:

Day 1-4: 64-66F held
Day 5-13: 68-69F held
Day 14: bottle.

100% of the time it is covered in a shirt to prevent light. Whenever I bottle I never "spash" the wort.

I've bottled after day "10" and been "OK" so far, but I feel that's more stressful and does require "checking" a few times......I'd rather not open and close it 2-3 times to "assure" that my FG is met by being in a rush (higher risk of contamination). I take FG when I bottle since I allow good time for it to finish--and I find there's much less stress this way. If FG exactly what I'm anticipating then I continue.....

If my timeline is WAY to long for an IPA, let me know....

 

[Dgallo]

So that things don’t get redundant in here check out these threads and resources.

Will explain the impacts of oxidation on IPAs
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/impact-cold-side-oxidation-new-england-ipa/

Great resources and post about making better hoppy beers
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

 

[schematix]

Lot of good comments here already.

Another thing that helps a lot is a simple recipe such as 97% 2-row, 3% crystal (10/20/40 only). You want it to finish dry.... if you're above 1.008 the hops aren't going to pop.

 

[fendersrule]

Lot of good comments here already.

Another thing that helps a lot is a simple recipe such as 97% 2-row, 3% crystal (10/20/40 only). You want it to finish dry.... if you're above 1.008 the hops aren't going to pop.

I believe I have the temp control and the FG nailed....I get 1.007-1.008 every time w/ 150-152 mash w/ US-05 w/ this recipe that I'm trying to make:
https://brewgr.com/recipe/67319/mother-earth-boo-koo-normal-efficiency-ag-5g-recipe?public=true

Now the trick is to keep the US-05 in a range that it's just clean...I listed my "revised" fermentation time/temp process above and I didn't get any feedback. I will do the link reading tomorrow.

 

[schematix]

I believe I have the temp control and the FG nailed....I get 1.007-1.008 every time w/ 150-152 mash w/ US-05 w/ this recipe that I'm trying to make:
https://brewgr.com/recipe/67319/mother-earth-boo-koo-normal-efficiency-ag-5g-recipe?public=true

Now the trick is to keep the US-05 in a range that it's just clean...I listed my "revised" fermentation time/temp process above and I didn't get any feedback. I will do the link reading tomorrow.

Pitch at least 2 packs of US-05 per 5 gallons. Anything in the 62-71 range if controlled will give you something clean.

 

[Dgallo]

Lot of good comments here already.

You want it to finish dry.... if you're above 1.008 the hops aren't going to pop.

Not a true statement. Bitterness will seem elevated as dryness increases for sure but hop flavor and aroma will pop when proper practices and process are followed. Take Other half’s Dream series. Many of those beers after being degassed show they finish 1.016/1.018 and some of their triple versions will finish even higher and the hop profile absolutely pops.

 

[TheMadKing]

That's kinda my point of the thread...I'd rather leave US-05 because I really haven't had a "damn good" IPA/Pale, even with my "successful" ones that didn't fail. Every time I try to meddle with the extremes of US-05 it gets finicky. At this point I ask myself, "why not just buy IPAs?"

I may consider using Nottingham for my next IPA. It has a lower range than US-05....people that use Nottingham can attest to some super clean tasting stuff in the mid 50s even. It seems to like cold fermentation better. I can easily maintain 64-66F for the first 3 days, so I do have a temp control method. I've learned after those first few crucial days that most ale yeasts at that point don't mind going up to room temps for the remaining point of fermentation. That's been my latest working knowledge with the beers I have fermenting now...

I don't do starters. I do however rehydrate if using dry yeast. I used a Wyeast "smack pack" for my latest brew that I did.

Maybe I will give US-05 another try, but this time apply my 64-66F method for the first 3 days, then just let it ride at 68F.....

US-05 is a clean yeast if it has a healthy fermentation, and from what you're describing, temperature control is 99% of your problem. It needs to be 65-68 IN THE BEER, and constant. Temperature swings make unhappy yeast.

As suggested above, since you don't have temp control, switch to a clean Kveik strain.

It sounds like you should pick up a copy of the Yeast book and really get a thorough understanding of what makes yeast ferment cleanly.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

The first two responses covered the vast majority of it. IPA's are really susceptible to oxidation. Temp control is always important and, finally, managing your water profile (mineral content and pH) make a big difference. pH and mineral content really affect the "pop" you get from the hops.

If you're going to bottle condition, you're going to end up with yeast in the bottom of every bottle. That's just part of the deal. Also, you'll get some oxygen exposure in a bottling bucket. Whether or not the yeast will clean that up during bottle conditioning is up for debate, but very few people can get an NEIPA to turn out when bottle conditioned, suggesting you aren't likely to avoid some oxidation.

If you can't find a way to do proper temp control, then the suggestion for a kveik yeast was solid. They are much more forgiving with respect to fermentation temps.

 

[eric19312]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet so I will add sanitation to the list. US-05 is pretty clean as ale yeasts go, even can be used in pseudo lagers with proper handling. Without tasting your beer or a better description of the off flavors its hard to tell if your issue is contamination. Probably temp control is your issue.

I know oxidation is the go-to culprit these days but I made quite good and award winning IPAs (west coast and traditional american) and APAs back when I was bottling from an open bucket and kegging with open transfers. I'm wondering if the higher exposure to hops in the boil is protective of oxidation and why more people started noticing lots of issues with oxidation in IPAs once the style shifted to NEIPAs.

Temp control, pitching enough yeast and careful sanitation can still get you a clean west coast IPA with modest care taken regarding oxygen exposure.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Maybe I missed it but have you actually described the unpleasant flavor you're getting, besides just saying it's not "clean enough"? Astringent, cardboard, buttery, green apples, etc?? Just a basic dullness? I know it's hard sometimes to describe flavors(I suck at it) but for it to be a dumper I'd imagine it's a pretty strong off-flavor. US-05 may end up not being your favorite IPA yeast but you should be able to produce at least drinkable beers with it. I used it almost exclusively early on and my beers were decent. My biggest issue with it was too much bitterness, which was probably my own fault being too heavy handed with hops so I blame myself for my beers not being great, not the yeast. I also had issues with oxidation when I bottled IPAs. Not very long shelf life until the flavor started going downhill fast. Huge improvement when I started kegging.

 

[schematix]

Not a true statement. Bitterness will seem elevated as dryness increases for sure but hop flavor and aroma will pop when proper practices and process are followed. Take Other half’s Dream series. Many of those beers after being degassed show they finish 1.016/1.018 and some of their triple versions will finish even higher and the hop profile absolutely pops.

I strongly disagree with you.

Under attenuated malt isn’t a good flavor.

 

[jjw5015]

Going to be difficult to replicate given the difference in quality of hops available to us.

 

[bobeer]

what is your typical mash temp for your IPA's? I always mash at 148 F and I have sa05 as my "house strain" for my american style hoppy ales. Been using it for almost 10 years at 66-68 degrees F with no issues at all. I give it a good week, maybe even 10 days if get busy, then warm it up to 70 degrees for 2-3 days, cold crash, then keg with hops in the keg.

 

[Miraculix]

I brewed with us05 under the worst temperature- uncontrolled-and-oxygen-leaking-into-the-untight-bucket-conditions and the beer was every single time at least nice, except when there was an infection present.

My guess is, if you really think that your beer is worth dumping, then you must have had some nasty infection in there. Us05 is much too forgiving to create dumpers within the normal temperature range.

Please describe the off flavour.

 

[ZmannR2]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

 

[Callacave]

I strongly disagree with you.

Under attenuated malt isn’t a good flavor.

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.

 

[Callacave]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

While I agree stainless is the way to go, people have made amazing beers in just a plastic bucket.

Mexican Coke is better because it uses actual cane sugar.

 

[schematix]

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.

Like I said, I disagree. I get incredible mouthfeel with a 15P->1.8P IPA. Much better when I made dextrin heavy beer that would finish at 4P. It was just heavy and cloying.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

I personally doubt that's his issue. Also, silicone is generally not recommended for beer lines.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I assume this thread is talking about a "clean" Classic American West Coast IPA...not an NEIPA, or English IPA or a more malty East Coast IPA (well...before that term was changed to mean a Hazy IPA).

Lots of good items here so far.

One thing that helped my IPAs and hoppy Pale Ales was reducing/eliminating my use of Crystal malts and moving to lighter Crystal. In years past, 10% Crystal 60 was common for me. My current "base" American IPA has 4% Crystal 20 (plus some Carapils and Wheat). For the last hoppy Pale Ale I brewed I moved to zero Crystal and instead used 19% Munich to give some color/flavor. That beer might have been a bit "too light" for my preferences in a Pale Ale, but I think it will work well for a beer where you want the hops to shine.

I made a number of process changes this year and I feel that my IPAs and Pale Ales benefited the most from water chemistry changes. Unchanged, the pH of these beers push into the 5.9 range, and my water is pretty low in Sulfate. Closed transfers also seem to help.

 

[eric19312]

I brewed with us05 under the worst temperature- uncontrolled-and-oxygen-leaking-into-the-untight-bucket-conditions and the beer was every single time at least nice, except when there was an infection present.

My guess is, if you really think that your beer is worth dumping, then you must have had some nasty infection in there. Us05 is much too forgiving to create dumpers within the normal temperature range.

Please describe the off flavour.

This

The OP called the beer a dumper. Each to his own but I’ve not yet met a home brewer that literally dumps a full batch due to the beer only turning out kinda meh. In addition to yeast stress and sanitation other routes to severe off flavors include chlorine/chloramine in brewing water, DMS from insufficient boil with some malts and diacetyl (fermentation byproduct).

Slight oxidation from an open transfer, a heavy hand with specialty esp crystal malts in the grist, lower quality hops might all be differences between mediocre home brew (or commercial) beer and really good craft beer but I’m probably not dumping it as a home brewer.

 

[Callacave]

Like I said, I disagree. I get incredible mouthfeel with a 15P->1.8P IPA. Much better when I made dextrin heavy beer that would finish at 4P. It was just heavy and cloying.

Hill Farmstead's Edward finishes around 3.5 to 4P, and there's nothing cloying about it. Tastes are definitely subjective, but I think some people are misleading when it comes to FG and sweet. Sweet is more from what type of malt you're using, not as much of a factor with FG, especially when you're comparing 4P to 1.8P.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Indeed. Lagunitas IPA finishes at 1.020ish and that's definitely not a sweet beer. There's certainly a difference between under attenuation and finishing gravity.

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.