What's the secret to brewing a REALLY clean tasting IPA?

[Miraculix]

I brewed with us05 under the worst temperature- uncontrolled-and-oxygen-leaking-into-the-untight-bucket-conditions and the beer was every single time at least nice, except when there was an infection present.

My guess is, if you really think that your beer is worth dumping, then you must have had some nasty infection in there. Us05 is much too forgiving to create dumpers within the normal temperature range.

Please describe the off flavour.

 

[ZmannR2]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

 

[Callacave]

I strongly disagree with you.

Under attenuated malt isn’t a good flavor.

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.

 

[Callacave]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

While I agree stainless is the way to go, people have made amazing beers in just a plastic bucket.

Mexican Coke is better because it uses actual cane sugar.

 

[schematix]

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.

Like I said, I disagree. I get incredible mouthfeel with a 15P->1.8P IPA. Much better when I made dextrin heavy beer that would finish at 4P. It was just heavy and cloying.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Temp control and oxidation has been well covered here so I'll leave that alone.

But I would also ask about your brewing method? I assume you're doing all grain, otherwise there's nothing more to say.

Since I switched to where NOTHING touches my beer except stainless steel, glass, and silicone, the flavor has greatly improved. And I'm talking EVERYTHING. All the way to the racking tube and the beer lines coming off your kegs. Use ALL silicone and ferment in stainless steel fermenters. Plastic and especially those regular PVC vinyl or whatever beer lines makes beer taste different. I do eBIAB but even got away from those bags as theres no guarantee off flavors aren't produced from them at high heat. I switched to a stainless mesh basket.

Ever have a "Mexican Coke" and notice how much better they taste than those plastic 20oz bottles do from your convenient store? I sure as hell do. Glass is best!

I'll take my homebrew over store bought any day.

I personally doubt that's his issue. Also, silicone is generally not recommended for beer lines.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I assume this thread is talking about a "clean" Classic American West Coast IPA...not an NEIPA, or English IPA or a more malty East Coast IPA (well...before that term was changed to mean a Hazy IPA).

Lots of good items here so far.

One thing that helped my IPAs and hoppy Pale Ales was reducing/eliminating my use of Crystal malts and moving to lighter Crystal. In years past, 10% Crystal 60 was common for me. My current "base" American IPA has 4% Crystal 20 (plus some Carapils and Wheat). For the last hoppy Pale Ale I brewed I moved to zero Crystal and instead used 19% Munich to give some color/flavor. That beer might have been a bit "too light" for my preferences in a Pale Ale, but I think it will work well for a beer where you want the hops to shine.

I made a number of process changes this year and I feel that my IPAs and Pale Ales benefited the most from water chemistry changes. Unchanged, the pH of these beers push into the 5.9 range, and my water is pretty low in Sulfate. Closed transfers also seem to help.

 

[eric19312]

I brewed with us05 under the worst temperature- uncontrolled-and-oxygen-leaking-into-the-untight-bucket-conditions and the beer was every single time at least nice, except when there was an infection present.

My guess is, if you really think that your beer is worth dumping, then you must have had some nasty infection in there. Us05 is much too forgiving to create dumpers within the normal temperature range.

Please describe the off flavour.

This

The OP called the beer a dumper. Each to his own but I’ve not yet met a home brewer that literally dumps a full batch due to the beer only turning out kinda meh. In addition to yeast stress and sanitation other routes to severe off flavors include chlorine/chloramine in brewing water, DMS from insufficient boil with some malts and diacetyl (fermentation byproduct).

Slight oxidation from an open transfer, a heavy hand with specialty esp crystal malts in the grist, lower quality hops might all be differences between mediocre home brew (or commercial) beer and really good craft beer but I’m probably not dumping it as a home brewer.

 

[Callacave]

Like I said, I disagree. I get incredible mouthfeel with a 15P->1.8P IPA. Much better when I made dextrin heavy beer that would finish at 4P. It was just heavy and cloying.

Hill Farmstead's Edward finishes around 3.5 to 4P, and there's nothing cloying about it. Tastes are definitely subjective, but I think some people are misleading when it comes to FG and sweet. Sweet is more from what type of malt you're using, not as much of a factor with FG, especially when you're comparing 4P to 1.8P.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Indeed. Lagunitas IPA finishes at 1.020ish and that's definitely not a sweet beer. There's certainly a difference between under attenuation and finishing gravity.

Who says the beers are under attenuated? If the yeast can't chomp on the longer chain dextrines, then the beer is done.

Look at Hill Farmstead. He's the definition of clean hoppy beers with full, pillowy soft mouthfeel, and typically higher finishing gravity in the teens. It's not so much about flavor with higher finishing gravity, but more about mouthfeel.

 

[schematix]

Indeed. Lagunitas IPA finishes at 1.020ish and that's definitely not a sweet beer. There's certainly a difference between under attenuation and finishing gravity.

NO!

Lagunitas website says its an OG of 1.059 and 6.2%. That gives it an FG of ~1.012.

 

[Dgallo]

NO!

Lagunitas website says its an OG of 1.059 and 6.2%. That gives it an FG of ~1.012.

Everyone needs to get past the fact that fg is not an indicator of hop brightness, process and quality is. It also isn’t the reason this was a dumper

 

[schematix]

Everyone needs to get past the fact that fg is not an indicator of hop brightness, process and quality is. It also isn’t the reason this was a dumper

Lots of reasons for dumpers. A high FG is one of them.

 

[dwhite60]

One thing that helped my IPAs and hoppy Pale Ales was reducing/eliminating my use of Crystal malts and moving to lighter Crystal. In years past, 10% Crystal 60 was common for me. My current "base" American IPA has 4% Crystal 20 (plus some Carapils and Wheat). For the last hoppy Pale Ale I brewed I moved to zero Crystal and instead used 19% Munich to give some color/flavor. That beer might have been a bit "too light" for my preferences in a Pale Ale, but I think it will work well for a beer where you want the hops to shine.

I've read a little about this lately. Crystal is made partly through an oxygen reaction. The reaction doesn't stop either. It slows when moisture is removed from the equation but doesn't stop. Throw it in a mash though and it starts back working. Lower amounts of lighter crystals do seem to provide less of the effect.

CascadesBrewer's comment seems to agree with this idea.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Callacave]

Lots of reasons for dumpers. A high FG is one of them.

Who says that's a high FG?

 

[schematix]

Who says that's a high FG?

If you’re looking for an authoritative source, BJCP.

There are a few styles with higher FG, but those are generally also big malty beers. IPA is not that.

1.020 is way too high.

 

[505-Brewer]

Diacetyl is a great way to ruin an ipa. Too many rushed beers w diacetyl. We dont really perceive the precursor so unless youve done a forced test or waited a long time (not common for many ipa makers) it shows up in the glass yuck. That is certainly a dumper.

 

[Callacave]

If you’re looking for an authoritative source, BJCP.

There are a few styles with higher FG, but those are generally also big malty beers. IPA is not that.

1.020 is way too high.

BJCP isn't authoritative. They're guidelines if you want to try to stay to style, and win competitions, but styles continually change. If we stuck with BJCP there would never be any progress. BJCP actually had to follow the changing trends, and finally change to what brewers were really doing.

I wouldn't want my hoppy beers to finish at 1.020 either, but it doesn't mean it's a dumper.

Try Hill's Everett. His Porter. It finishes at 1.030, but you'd never know it. It's not overly sweet, and has a wonderful roast and chocolate undertones.

We're getting off the beaten path, so I'll end it here, but my original point is a FG doesn't have to be below 1.010 in a hoppy ale to be good, and have the hops pop like you initially said. I actually prefer mine to be above that with some body, and the hops can still shine.

I'm sure you make some fine beers. Keep doing you. Nothing wrong with that. We all have different tastes and preferences.

 

[couchsending]

Like I said, I disagree. I get incredible mouthfeel with a 15P->1.8P IPA. Much better when I made dextrin heavy beer that would finish at 4P. It was just heavy and cloying.

Then your water profile/carbonation is wrong. I would say 80-90% of the best commercial IPAs in the world finish north of 1.010 and plenty close to 1.014/1.015. And that’s both soft/hazy and clear/bitter WC.

You definitely don’t need low finishing gravity to get hops to pop.

PH is incredibly important all the way through from mash to sparge, start of boil, end of boil, before dry hopping.

Gotta keep O2 exposure to the absolute minimum after fermentation is complete. Hops flavor and aroma are the first thing to go when the beer is exposed to even minute amounts of oxygen. Unless you’re kegging and have a conical that can withstand at least a little head pressure, that’s hard to do.

 

[schematix]

Then your water profile/carbonation is wrong. I would say 80-90% of the best commercial IPAs in the world finish north of 1.010 and plenty close to 1.014/1.015. And that’s both soft/hazy and clear/bitter WC.

You definitely don’t need low finishing gravity to get hops to pop.

PH is incredibly important all the way through from mash to sparge, start of boil, end of boil, before dry hopping.

Gotta keep O2 exposure to the absolute minimum after fermentation is complete. Hops flavor and aroma are the first thing to go when the beer is exposed to even minute amounts of oxygen. Unless you’re kegging and have a conical that can withstand at least a little head pressure, that’s hard to do.

There's no "your" here. Not sure what you're arguing. There's a HUGE difference between 1.008, 1.012, 1.015 and 1.020. 1.020 is undrinkable in virtually all beer styles. Blech.

I'd put my HB IPA toe to toe with the best IPAs in the world. I was an IPA addict before they were trendy and i've spent a LOT of time figuring them out. I've made a lot of them that weren't great to test different methods (e.g. 100% whirlpool hops). It's definitely a sum of the parts but certain things help more than others. If you want something world class, by which i mean better than just about anything you'll get at your local craft brewery or buy on store shelves, you need to pay attention to the details. You can make hoppy beer easily, but to have it be something with the right mouthfeel, flavor, bitterness, carbonation and overall balance takes some attention to detail.
-100% RO water with mineral adjustment
-Simple grain bills with bland base malts
-Meticulous oxygen exclusion hot and cold side
-pH monitoring/adjustment in the mash, boil, and knock out
-Step mashing for maximum extract, attenuation and clarity
-Use of clarifiers and stabilizers
-Layered application of the freshest possible hops in various forms.... isomerized oils, non-isomerized oils, hop hash, pellets
-High yeast pitching rates
-Oxygenation of wort with pure O2
-Fermentation temperature control
-Spunding

 

[couchsending]

There's no "your" here. Not sure what you're arguing. There's a HUGE difference between 1.008, 1.012, 1.015 and 1.020. 1.020 is undrinkable in virtually all beer styles. Blech.

Of course there’s a difference. There isn’t enough malt to support the hops at 1.008 IMHO. 1.012-1.015 for me is the sweet spot and yes they can be different but you could also make 1.012 taste much sweeter than 1.015 with different water profiles.

Certain beer styles need to be over 1.020 in order to be drinkable... the highest regarded stouts and porters in the world (even the non adjuncted ones) are all over 1.020 and most over 1.030 FG.

 

[schematix]

Certain beer styles need to be over 1.020 in order to be drinkable... the highest regarded stouts and porters in the world (even the non adjuncted ones) are all over 1.020 and most over 1.030 FG.

The topic of this thread is IPA, not mega imperial stouts and porters. Not even in the same ballpark.

 

[couchsending]

The topic of this thread is IPA, not mega imperial stouts and porters. Not even in the same ballpark.

Then you shouldn’t have made such a blanket statement.

 

[schematix]

Then you shouldn’t have made such a blanket statement.

I didn't. My comments were all made within the context of IPAs and even qualified when i mentioned other styles.

 

[505-Brewer]

Virtually all beer styles ........

 

[schematix]

Virtually all beer styles ........

Right.... which means all but a few. Those few being the mega imperial stout/porter vanilla bourbon barrel whatever. And again, this is an IPA thread.

 

[Dgallo]

Right.... which means all but a few. Those few bring the mega imperial stout/porter vanilla bourbon barrel whatever. And again, this is an IPA thread.

You are relentless aren’t you lol

 

[schematix]

You are relentless aren’t you lol

Making factually inaccurate statements in response to my posts usually elicits a reply.

 

[Dgallo]

Making factually inaccurate statements in response to my posts usually elicits a reply.

As I would reply, all your post have been opinions....

You want it to finish dry.... if you're above 1.008 the hops aren't going to pop.

Under attenuated malt isn’t a good flavor.

- finishing higher due to purposefully mashing for having unfermentable sugars wouldn’t be an under attenuated beer.

1.020 is way too high.

 

[Dustin_J]

There are a couple of highly regarded brewers in the various forums who experience peach-like flavors from US-05 in the 55-60* F range.

I'm of the opinion that peach flavors with US-05 is something that some people can taste but others are 'blind' to it.

I went looking for peach with US-05 last winter with some one gallon test batches (basement ambient temperature gets to 55* F). I ended up making good beer - but no peach flavors. And, honestly, if I'm 'blind' to peach flavors from US-05, I'm OK with that.

My wife and I make a house sparkling apple cider with US-05, and I've definitely noticed that once I get down to 61-62 F it throws a subtle white peach character. I haven't tried to go much lower, but we actually target this temp to get that peach ester. It's been very reliable that if we stay below 62 we get it, if we go above we don't, at least at a level we can perceive it at.