Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[applescrap]

The light lager has now come into its own. I have to look but I want to say its been 2 months. They seem to get better as they age and clear. This one is almost translucent, but still has the slightest haze. The simpsons gp is stellar and has that grainy flavor that seems to be ubiquitous in discussions. The lower ibus, quality grain, and lagering in our freezing rocky mtn winter has made this an enjoyable quaffer. It's good for weeknights when I only want a pint or two and not too many calories.

 

[bstacy1974]

My first warm fermented lager I guess. Sterling hops at 60,15,and 5. I'm getting lots of lemon/lime from them.
Kept the temp at 61 for 5 days in a water bath. The. Let it free rise to 68nfor another 5 days. Kegged, cold crashed, then added gelatin. Photo is after a week in keg. Flavor is still developing. Starting to get that lager vibe.

https://imgur.com/a/GdGpWXJ

 

[ncbrewer]

Question up front... is this cause for concern?

My current home brew batch is a warm fermented Munich dunkel. I used 34/70 lager yeast.

Started at 1.052 on Feb 10, held at mid 50’s F for 4 days then warmed to mid 60’s temp where it’s stayed.

I plan on leaving it for 3 weeks before bottling but I wanted to see if I was at FG (predicted by beersmith to be 1.013) so took a reading a couple days ago and again today, (will be 2 weeks in fermenter tomorrow ) both at 1.017.

That FG may not be exact as it’s from a refractometer , corrected for alcohol, but for sure the brix reading is consistent (7.6) both days.

I’m used to my FG dropping a couple points low, if anything, and I’m not accustomed to having it end several points high.

Mash temp was 153 and held well for the hour.

I gave the bucket a gentle swirl today and will leave it til next week anyways but just wondering if 1.017 FG for a dunkel is going to cause me issues?

The little sample I took for the refractometer reading tastes fine... possibly on the sweet side... but I know the flavour will change with carbonation.

That's a little worrisome to me because I just had a similar experience with a warm fermented Festbier, using Mangrove Jack's M54. Fermented at 67F for 5 days, then at 70F for a total of 20 days. Gravity reading at 18 days was 1.0148 - at 20 days it was 1.0139. (I use a bottling hydrometer that can has divisions every 1/2 gravity point, and I can easily read it to the nearest 1/4 gravity point, then adjust for temperature.) This is the first time I've ever had a drop in gravity after that long. Since it fermented warm the whole time, I expected it to finish on the same schedule as an ale. I delayed bottling - will wait and check again in a few more days.

 

[TNJake]

I've been following this thread for some time as I have done a couple light lagers with 2112 and interested in other people's experiences. After all the praise, I plan on giving the MJ variant a shot. I'm thinking a Shiner Bock clone for this trial. I've done it before, I believe using wlp820 and a more traditional lager method. Very Interested in making something similar without the fridge space.

 

[Mothman]

I just took another reading of my warm-fermented dunkel, and got same 7.6 brix (1.017 as per calculator) reading.

This time I decided to take a full sample to confirm with the hydrometer and got a 1.018, so... looks like this Dunkel is done! Will just be a little fuller body than intended lol. (and a half a % less abv)

The grain bill is 94% Munich malt, and I've never used it in such large amounts, maybe it impacts the attenuation. The recipe I used actually called for a step mash, which I didn't do, kinda went on faith it wouldn't matter, but maybe...?

Anyway... a side benefit of the larger hydro sample was I was able to get a better taste than the little sip from the refractometer sample, and I think the flavour will be just fine. I thought at first it might taste a little sweet, but the larger sample has me thinking it's more a maltiness, maybe a touch of caramel, than sweetness.

If all goes to plan I'll bottle it this Sunday.

 

[ncbrewer]

I have a Festbier in the fermenter using Mangrove Jack's M54 yeast. It was at 67F during active fermentation. It's really slow reaching final gravity (26 days at last gravity sample, and still dropping).(See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/fermentation-slow-to-finish.663219/#post-8537322 for details.) Has anybody else seen this using M54?

 

[Mothman]

First bottle of my first ever lager (warm fermented Munich dunkel).

Turned out darker than planned (More like a really dark amber ale, awesome red hue) and it needs another week to fully carb, but first impression is, it's great!

Smooth and easy drinking, but really malty. It finished at a higher gravity than intended but isn't too sweet.

This was a success .

 

[balrog]

Dropping back in here after a hiatus. My first 34/70 was awful, ferm at 60°F threw major peach esters. Did not try again.

Is the current consensus with warm lagers to do 34/70 in upper 60's, or go with MJ54 at ??°F?

I've brewed three with 34/70, generally fermented in the upper 50s. None were quite where I wanted them.
I'm drinking an M54 batch right now which is good. A dozen guys at a homebrew meeting found no fault with it. It has definitely improved in three weeks in the keg. I still hope to make better lagers, but I'm pleased with the M54.

@JohnSand - what recipe/fermschedule?

 

[treacheroustexan]

Dropping back in here after a hiatus. My first 34/70 was awful, ferm at 60°F threw major peach esters. Did not try again.

Is the current consensus with warm lagers to do 34/70 in upper 60's, or go with MJ54 at ??°F?



@JohnSand - what recipe/fermschedule?

My 34/70 Oktoberfest at 60f turned out awful too.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

my last 34/70 at 68-70 was great, I've been planning on brewing another using the same.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Anybody here brewing lagers with Kveik strains?

 

[dkeller12]

@Mothman - Glad this turned out as good as mine did. Enjoy!!!

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Has anyone seen this new strain from Bootleg Biology?

https://bootlegbiology.com/product/oslo/

 

[Mothman]

@Mothman - Glad this turned out as good as mine did. Enjoy!!!

I wanted to update... the Munich Dunkel I made is the first time (that I remember) I've ever drank a beer of the style. I enjoyed the first bottle, but really had nothing to compare it to.

Last night I tried another bottle, this one was carbed better, though I think one final week conditioning the remaining bottles will get them where I want them... anyway, I'd also purchased a 4-pack of a commercial craft dunkel, and I compared the two beers last night.

The two are very, very similar. The commercial example I had was a little more roasty/nutty, while mine is a little bit of a 'cleaner' flavour... but both are comparable, and my first ever lager, fermented warm at that, compares very favorably to the commercial one.

 

[Samudell]

I wanted to update... the Munich Dunkel I made is the first time (that I remember) I've ever drank a beer of the style. I enjoyed the first bottle, but really had nothing to compare it to.

Last night I tried another bottle, this one was carbed better, though I think one final week conditioning the remaining bottles will get them where I want them... anyway, I'd also purchased a 4-pack of a commercial craft dunkel, and I compared the two beers last night.

The two are very, very similar. The commercial example I had was a little more roasty/nutty, while mine is a little bit of a 'cleaner' flavour... but both are comparable, and my first ever lager, fermented warm at that, compares very favorably to the commercial one.

What was ur recipe

 

[Mothman]

@dkeller12 pointed me to this recipe : https://byo.com/article/munich-dunkel-the-original-brown-lager-of-bavaria/

I scaled it to my batch size.

I used carafa iii special as that's what I could find (first time using carafa special and I'm a fan).

I didn't do a decoction, nor did I do a step mash, just mashed as normal at 153F.

Boiled for ~ 90 minutes.

I used 34/70 yeast, a couple days at high 50's F, then to low to mid 60's for a week, then final week and a half at high 60's.

The only thing that didn't go to plan is my color is a bit darker than intended, and my fg was 1.017/8, was supposed to be 1.013. The beer tastes great though.

 

[TNJake]

Anybody here brewing lagers with Kveik strains?

I've tried asking that question around HBT but I've never heard a response. Somebody has to have tried it right?

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've tried asking that question around HBT but I've never heard a response. Somebody has to have tried it right?

Then I'll take up the challenge!

 

[jahlinux]

I've pretty much settled on using W-34/70 fermented at 65F. I'm trying to decide if it's beneficial to ramp up a few degrees (68-70F) for a diacetyl rest. Not sure it's necessary when warm fermenting. I'm interested in other peoples fermentation schedule when warm fermenting W-34/70.

 

[TNJake]

Then I'll take up the challenge!

I have not used a kveik strain but from what I heard Voss is one of the more neutral flavored strains. Please let me know (or this thread) how it goes with whichever kveik you use.

 

[Mothman]

I've pretty much settled on using W-34/70 fermented at 65F. I'm trying to decide if it's beneficial to ramp up a few degrees (68-70F) for a diacetyl rest. Not sure it's necessary when warm fermenting. I'm interested in other peoples fermentation schedule when warm fermenting W-34/70.

You can see my 34/70 schedule a few posts above your question. It worked well for me.

 

[catdaddy66]

Can't wait to get my bag of pilsner malt from the lhbs! Then I can go nuts with some favorites like Czech pilsners, German steam beers and a plethora of lagers that will be fermented above 60°... Heck, I can do another Westvleteren 12 clone!

 

[Rhaop]

Looking to brew Jen Talley’s schwarzbier, if I decide to use the 34/70 should I stick with my ambient basement temps mid 60’s or try swamp bath to go cooler? Also has anyone in this thread tried pitching two packs to lower the amount of growth/esters?

Edit: I do 6 gallon batches

 

[Vreten]

Thanks Applescrap, for the advice.

Curious... in terms of these beers, what are people generally finding is the sweet spot for aging after packaging?

Are we talking several weeks? Months?

I’ve come to understand that for German breweries at least 4 weeks is minimum, and up to 8 is not unusual for what they call ”brewery-conditioning”.

 

[Miraculix]

Can't wait to get my bag of pilsner malt from the lhbs! Then I can go nuts with some favorites like Czech pilsners, German steam beers and a plethora of lagers that will be fermented above 60°... Heck, I can do another Westvleteren 12 clone!

You are aware that a German steam beer is not a lager but an ale? Classic Hefeweizen yeast is used, just without any wheat in the grist. Google Dampfbier for more info.

 

[Jayjay1976]

You are aware that a German steam beer is not a lager but an ale? Classic Hefeweizen yeast is used, just without any wheat in the grist. Google Dampfbier for more info.

That sounds tasty, thanks for the tip off on a style I've somehow overlooked.

 

[Calaeb]

I've tried asking that question around HBT but I've never heard a response. Somebody has to have tried it right?

I've brewed a kolsch with omega's hothead (stranda I think) came out great, fermented around 72f

 

[MakeDankBeer]

My helles with wlp830 has a bit of a burnt rubber/sulfur off flavor the last pilsner(wlp840) I did also had this same flavor but after a week in the keg it was gone. Anyone else experience this ? I thought it was from over dry hopping it but after reading another thread , BJCP says it is due to yeast. https://www.bjcp.org/docs/OffFlavorFlash.pdf

Just in case anyone looks into these in the future, I believe that the burnt rubber off flavor is from the beer sitting in the beer line. As I detected in a NEIPA if I don't dump the first little bit of the pour. I believe I will re try the 830 at some point.

 

[JohnSand]

Dropping back in here after a hiatus. My first 34/70 was awful, ferm at 60°F threw major peach esters. Did not try again.

Is the current consensus with warm lagers to do 34/70 in upper 60's, or go with MJ54 at ??°F?



@JohnSand - what recipe/fermschedule?

10# pilsner, 8oz munich, 6oz melanoidin. M54 yeast
The ferm fridge was set to 66, it started there, but I forgot to plug in the heat(!), so it dropped to 62 while fermenting. I did notice and plug in the heat belt. I tend to leave everything ferment for three weeks. The 34/70 part seems to have cleaned up too.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

Brewed a helles copied from the lager recipe section and threw some 34/70 on it, it started out 70degrees , i was worried about it getting to hot, accidently chilled it too much, it was fermenting in the mid 50s , I warmed it back up to 68, a tad bit worried this one will not come out due to the drastic temp swings.