Warm Fermented Lager Thread
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Man fresh 3470, that is what i wanted. Fresh 3470 would have taken off in this sweet liquor in five minutes. 24 hours later post pitch and i smell a little funkiness but not pleased.
a1dookie
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First off I might be late but so glad I found this tread, I have my 2nd and 3rd basement temp lager fermenting ATM via 34/70, with regards to the S-189, did/do you notice any difference in the beer vs 34/70?
Hey sbe2, taking the keg out and letting it warm up worked!! Left it alone for a week, pulling the PRV every day to let it offgas, and just put it back in the kegerator yesterday. Force carbing now, just pulled a taster and the diacetyl is ALL GONE. No smell, no "butter" taste, just damn tasty beer. Good thing too because I'm getting low on beer. Success! It's a bit hazy but I don't care.
makisupapolice14
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Brewed my first two lagers with 34/70 (2 packs each), a schwarzbier and helles warm (64-66f) and entered into my first real competition. Both kegged less than 3 weeks ago and the schwarz took silver and helles took gold. Psyched!
Comfort_Zone
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As luck would have it I haven't brewed the same beer with both yeasts so I can't say for certain, but from what I've tasted S-189 seems to favor more malt-focused beers but I can't imagine that the two are that terribly different.
Congrats on the medals
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Both buckets have now fermented or are fermenting. Forgot to check so I don't know when the other one started. And I forgot which one was which. Which will be helpful in judging them without any perception. Not as much sulfur smell as I've normally gotten. The one that took a little while to take off is fermenting pretty violently. I can hear it in the bucket sputtering and splatting. The other one is already starting to clear with a light shine down in it and I'll be drinking that probably Friday.
Hahaha, so you found a good excuse still not to like the 800
jaybo
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Ok guys, I ended up with Saflager S-23 for my yeast on my Czech pils recipe (they didn't have 34-70 In stock). Will this be ok to warm ferment, or will I need to get another strain for this batch? Enquiring minds want to know...
Andrew Hodgson
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I don't know if this counts as warm but I have undertaken my first "basement beer" using Notty and no temp control other than using my basement.
Pretty simple attempt at a commercial lager style.
4lbs Light DME
1lb rice solids
4 oz honey malt (20 min steep)
1oz Cascade hops @ 60 minutes
1 oz Hallertau @ 2 minutes
tossed in 1 10g packet of glucoamylase (hoping to get it to crank the FG down for dryness)
Pitched a pack of Notty onto the wort and put it down in my basement, the temperature in there was about 55 last night, so I think even with a daytime increase in temp I will be close to 60 at the highest and it might not even range that far. Will check the temp on lunch to see. Might get too hot might not, it is in the basement's hands now.
Pretty simple attempt at a commercial lager style.
4lbs Light DME
1lb rice solids
4 oz honey malt (20 min steep)
1oz Cascade hops @ 60 minutes
1 oz Hallertau @ 2 minutes
tossed in 1 10g packet of glucoamylase (hoping to get it to crank the FG down for dryness)
Pitched a pack of Notty onto the wort and put it down in my basement, the temperature in there was about 55 last night, so I think even with a daytime increase in temp I will be close to 60 at the highest and it might not even range that far. Will check the temp on lunch to see. Might get too hot might not, it is in the basement's hands now.
I check FG and drink my Red Lager after 11 days.
1. It is not Red!?
It is dark. Not very dark like Stout, but more dark than red.
I use BrewMate software and brew six batch and it was pretty accurate for color, but now is failed.
Maybe because lager yeast ferment on 26'C? Maybe my roasted barley is too dark?
2. It is very drinkable and pretty bitter.
It still has a slight smell of yeast, but I'm leaving it for a couple of days in the fermenter.
3. FG is 1.011 (BrewMate calculate 1.008).
Maybe it is not over yet or W-34/70 not have 75% attenuation?
Conclusion: W-34/70 works well at 26'C
1. It is not Red!?
It is dark. Not very dark like Stout, but more dark than red.
I use BrewMate software and brew six batch and it was pretty accurate for color, but now is failed.
Maybe because lager yeast ferment on 26'C? Maybe my roasted barley is too dark?
2. It is very drinkable and pretty bitter.
It still has a slight smell of yeast, but I'm leaving it for a couple of days in the fermenter.
3. FG is 1.011 (BrewMate calculate 1.008).
Maybe it is not over yet or W-34/70 not have 75% attenuation?
Conclusion: W-34/70 works well at 26'C
FVillatoro
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That's the Hürlimann strain and in the Saaz lager yeast category, so it should be the opposite and not ferment well warm.
I got this info from a Brulosophy podcast some weeks ago and the discussion was lager yeasts and warm vs cold for some strains.
Personally, I have used S-189 at 57 degrees and it's very clean and ferments fast at that temp. However after the information I've recently came upon, I would go lower next time at around 50-52 to see what difference it makes.
deadwolfbones
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So, the British/International amber lager I did with a semi-warm method (high 50s/low 60s) turned out great. It's pretty bready, but I think that's down to the grist (MO + Victory) rather than the yeast or ferm temp. No noticeable off flavors, super clear (I fined with gelatin in the high 60s). I'd call it a success.
deadwolfbones
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Notty isn't a lager yeast, though...
Andrew Hodgson
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Ah you know what I was so concerned with one variable (preferred fermentation temp) I didn't realize that fermenting from the top or bottom is the characteristic that separates the two. I just figured the yeasts that prefer colder temps are all lager yeasts. This makes sense to me now.
deadwolfbones
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It's alright, man. There's a pretty overwhelming amount of stuff to learn!
You were not that far off though, as Notti is a mix of a lager and an ale yeast. So technically spoken, still somehow lager-ish
deadwolfbones
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You were not that far off though, as Notti is a mix of a lager and an ale yeast. So technically spoken, still somehow lager-ish
I have all the ingredients for a Czech pils, including RO water and a couple of packets of 34/70. (I wish I'd thought of this a few months ago when my utility room was 50 degrees.) I get the "ferment as cool as practical and don't worry about it" part, but how does the lagering step work if I don't have a kegerator? Just refrigerate the bottles for a month?
Yes, or just let it stand. Every part, except for dropping clear, of the lagering reactions is happening quicker at room temp anyway
MakeDankBeer
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I ended up finally brewing a test batch, OG ended up at around 1.090 I was planning on fermenting at 65, my main fermentation bag is occupied so its been around 68 for two days or so.
That's going to be strong stuff. What are you brewing and which yeast are you using?
MakeDankBeer
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Basically a super American pilsner aka malt liquor, its kind of a joke for a buddies wedding. 2row, 6row , flaked corn. and crystal hops. Fermenting with WLP840, might pitch another yeast to finish it. Looks like 10% is about the limit for this strain.
I guess the max was determined at lager temp. I'll bet they chew a bit further at ale temp. Just see how it goes!
I today check FG (open fermenter) and left to ferment for several more days.
But, airlock is reactivated and now looks like at the time of the strongest fermentation!?
Did I reactivate fermentation or is airlock false activity?
Update: Looks like I got a little faster with the conclusion. Airlock just stopped.
But, airlock is reactivated and now looks like at the time of the strongest fermentation!?
Did I reactivate fermentation or is airlock false activity?
Update: Looks like I got a little faster with the conclusion. Airlock just stopped.
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Today I bottling my warm fermented lager beer.
He ended up with a higher FG than expected and quite darker (dark brown) with little bitterness. Most similar Northern English Brown Ale style.
Esters are also highlighted in the smell and taste, although I used gelatin.
Right now, he does not look good. But it will be repaired by the conditioning in the bottles.
I think I will no longer use lager yeast at higher temperatures (26'C). I think US-05 would do a lot better at those temperatures.
He ended up with a higher FG than expected and quite darker (dark brown) with little bitterness. Most similar Northern English Brown Ale style.
Esters are also highlighted in the smell and taste, although I used gelatin.
Right now, he does not look good. But it will be repaired by the conditioning in the bottles.
I think I will no longer use lager yeast at higher temperatures (26'C). I think US-05 would do a lot better at those temperatures.
MakeDankBeer
Well-Known Member
I put it in minifridge at 65° , checked the gravity yesterday 1.024, bumped the temp up to 70° gonna let it ride until the weekend and going to check it again. Ill need the fridge back so it will either get kegged or ill get some more yeast to take it down to 1.018 or lower. Taste pretty solid, I don't detect any off flavors, obviously pretty rough flavors because its at day 5. I imagine after its kegged and chilled for a couple weeks it will smooth out.
Than just take it out of the fridge. Everything you want it to do will happen way faster at room temperature.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
I have been meaning to update. I racked one of the five gallon buckets on Sunday. I think that's 10 days after I brewed it. Just like all the other warm for fermented lagers, without a cold crash and gelatin it's pretty cloudy. There was a thick layer of yeast raft and leftover protein from fermentation etc, floating on top of the beer and it made me wonder if this thing was done. I racked It Anyways stop second-guessing myself because the other signs of fermentation were so obvious and I know they started 9 days before. It had blasted Gunk a couple inches up the sides, and it's been like that for over a week. Even though it's cloudy there is always a lightness and clearness to these beers that make it feel like a lager. I don't know how to explain it but it's obvious that it's not an ale. As always there's no signs of Esters or phenols or anything. It's actually quite splendid. My wife even drank one last night and she never does.
I've said it before, but if the question is what does a 10 day old, force carbed, warm fermented lager, thats warm look like, its this...
I've said it before, but if the question is what does a 10 day old, force carbed, warm fermented lager, thats warm look like, its this...
I wrote it in detail before and I will say it again, rushing a warm fermented lager is always a really bad idea. Yeast is not settled, yeast did not clean up properly. You would have had a way better result if you would have been patient for three weeks after pitching and just left it alone.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Haha, to me a really bad idea is swimming with barracudas wearing a bunch of bright jewelry. Another really bad idea is to jump off the roof of your house. On the other hand drinking a warm fermented Bock 10 days later because you're out is a really great idea. This makes 60 gallons for me now all of it documented on this thread. I went back and reviewed that to make sure it was right. Your favorite wlp800 sat in a warm primary for a month and it came out looking like a New England lager. I think it's on page 1 of this thread. It eventually cleared. When these flocculate, how quickly, hasn't proven to be an exact science. What has proven to work is to cold crash them and fine them them with gelatin. Racking these warm at force carbing him like I do put the yeast into massive suspension. I posted somewhere along the way that day 16 seems to be a sweet number. So yeah it wouldn't hurt to let it wait maybe, but let's be clear the stuff isn't going to come out of the fermenter three weeks later crystal clear and perfect. I think they get a little better with age and they're also a little different. I like fresh Homebrew taste as well and happily am drinking that tasty bock.
Cold crashing certainly does the job, I am not having the possibility for it, so I simply forgot about it.
The 800 isn't my go to yeast any more, it is mj California lager.
My 800 beers cleared all really quickly however. Would be interesting to know what makes yours so cloudy... I guess we'll never know.
catdaddy66
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I am set to bottle my steam beer this weekend and it is a bit cloudy in the primary also, but a couple of weeks of conditioning and a few days below 40°F should clear it sufficiently I would think. It was also made using wlp800.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
I have wondered as well and asked before. I can't seem to find the place in my methods where cloudiness happens. One thing I came up with is the shortened 45-minute boil I do. I think I found another Brewer who said they noticed cloudier beers with their shorter boils. One of my grain sacks has a little hole in it up high and maybe some grain is getting through and that is playing a role. The fact it was only ten days old. Sloppy rack, and then force carbed at 40 psi isnt helping. I think the 10 days grain to glass, force carbed and drinking right away could play a role. Gelatin and cold crashing has definitely proven effective.
Upthewazzu
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I recently used S-23 in an amber lager...pitched at 58°, then raised to 65° over the course of 2 weeks. Turned out great after a 3 week lagering phase.
In general, I think that yeast tastes better in a darker style beer.
catdaddy66
Well-Known Member
I understand about trying to go 'grain to glass' asap. Humans are always going to push the envelope (no matter the endeavor) so I get it, but I am not one who subscribes to faster being better. Can you drink the beer in 10 days? Sure. Will it be considered good beer? Probably not.
As I have aged I find I am not as impatient as I was when I was younger. I say let it ride.
As I have aged I find I am not as impatient as I was when I was younger. I say let it ride.
Upthewazzu
Well-Known Member
